Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #12

[mtnstream]

They probably wouldn't be found together if they went overboard.

Maybe they were both strong swimmers, or good enough. Kam McLeod grew up on a lake, Schmegelsky was over at his house alot (per MSM news). My guess is they were more like siblings, in many ways.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Assistant Commissioner Jane MacLatchy, commanding officer of the Manitoba RCMP said on Wednesday they didn't stop looking. "We knew we needed just to find that one piece of evidence". Two days later a damaged boat and several personal items linked to the fugitives were found along the Nelson. She said, "Following this discovery, we were at last able to narrow down the search".

Clint Sawchuk, owner of Nelson River Adventures, thinks he might have helped draw RCMP attention to the wide, fast-moving river. He spotted what appeared to be a sleeping bag caught in willows and reported it to the RCMP.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bodies-found-manhunt-fugitives-1.5239053

This might be one of the "several items directly linked" to BS and KM. I wonder if other items included clothing, cell phone or a backpack.

 

[MistyWaters]

Disagree on one point, and that was the delay in telling the public that that two people had been shot to death.

It’s my lone criticism here, as everything else has been stellar.

With a crime scene like that, you know that it is highly probable that there is a killer on the loose, and he is unknown to the victims.

This isn’t a stretch, and I can’t believe they did not know that at the time.

This is the most dangerous type of killer, because he kills at random, striking vulnerable victims of opportunity.

In the end, it did not matter. But this is something that everyone needs to learn from.

The difficulty in northern BC and the Yukon is a means of communication. While those of us in populated areas can read the news online, watch TV or listen to the radio, reaching out to people who have access to none of that due to the remoteness is a real challenge and there’s no simple solution. And the irony is, for tourists, knowing that one is leaving all that behind is also one of the attractions of visiting the far north.

An example of the RCMPs attempt to overcome the communication challenge is the photo of the electronic billboards asking for people who travelled the Alaskan Highway with dashcam footage from July 14/15th to contact the RCMP. Anywhere else, that request would be made through the local media.

 

[Zella]

Maybe they were both strong swimmers, or good enough. Kam McLeod grew up on a lake, Schmegelsky was over at his house alot (per MSM news). My guess is they were more like siblings, in many ways.

BBM

Yes, I suspect with BS being an only child and KM apparently being the only boy in his family, they regarded each other as brothers. The descriptions of them as inseparable ring pretty true. The only person who has been less than fawning over KM's personality was a coworker at WM who said he was nice enough but was so close to BS that it was weird.

 

[MistyWaters]

unless BS was still growing and KM was 6'4" and BS was 6"7"... is KM's height on his driver's license?

KM might’ve been only 16 when his DL’s height and weight was described as that’s the minimum age requirement.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, he did. Amazing, and it shows what a sharp local can do; someone who really knows the river. Spotting that sleeping bag in shore willows down near Port Nelson (the river mouth) was the key, it seems. I've been reading about the tours he runs (I was looking into York Factory and Port Nelson a few days ago, saw his tour info.). It was enough to convince me that the York Factory tour he runs is well worth doing. I'm now thinking of giving it a try in the spring.

Very early in the manhunt, I saw a video a travel blogger made taking Clint's river tour to York Factory. It looks quite amazing and looks like it would be quite an adventure. Clint must know the river very well with his regular trips. Watching that video made me realize how challenging the search would be and how unlikely the two killers would get out alive. Bravo to Clint and the RCMP and all others involved.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Alexis Daish reported this for 9News in Sydney:

Canadian teen murder suspects Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky found dead: RCMP

 

[sandbar]

I think it would be more likely to be together actually. I can’t imagine them going through all this and then suddenly not helping each other, whether they were on the shore or in the boat before heading for the bush where they were ultimately found. I think together until the end would have been their mindset.

for sure, but I was replying to someone speculating about them going overboard. I was thinking of the current making it unlikely for them to stay together.
I have to add that I had never heard of dry drowning.

Dry drowning: Symptoms, causes, and when to see a doctor

 

[JudgeJudi]

Dental records would also provide positive identification.

I’m sure DNA is taken regardless though.

Agreed. DNA and probably fingerprints, would have been taken when their homes were searched. Dental records or fingerprints would probably be the fastest at this point.

 

[Zella]

for sure, but I was replying to someone speculating about them going overboard. I was thinking of the current making it unlikely for them to stay together.
I have to add that I had never heard of dry drowning.

Dry drowning: Symptoms, causes, and when to see a doctor

I think the fact they were found together indicates some degree of choice. Now, whether that was the choice to actively commit suicide or the more passive decision to just give up and die there, I don't know. But I think if it had been something like the currents or wild animals, they wouldn't have been found together. I could also see one of them dying and the other one just giving up and deciding to die there too. But I don't think if it were entirely out of their hands that they would have been found together.

As soon as I heard they were found together, I thought about Bonnie and Clyde and her poem about themselves--"go down together." (BTW not implying anything about their relationship with that comparison.)

 

[MistyWaters]

Clint Sawchuk essentially resolved this manhunt with just his sharp eyes. No fancy tools.

Yes his sighting was key. That’s the only warm and fuzzy part of this sad saga I think, how everyone seemed to come together in support of the RCMP’s search. Clint as a guide watching the river, others like Billy Beardy organizing patrols, First Nations Chiefs jointly communicating both on and off the reserve, when the first RCMP officers flew into York Landing somebody lent them a truck and I’m sure there’s many other examples we don’t know about.

It was refreshing to not detect any sort of “we versus they” attitude by anyone whatsoever. Just a respectful determination by everyone.

 

[Herat]

Very early in the manhunt, I saw a video a travel blogger made taking Clint's river tour to York Factory. It looks quite amazing and looks like it would be quite an adventure. Clint must know the river very well with his regular trips. Watching that video made me realize how challenging the search would be and how unlikely the two killers would get out alive. Bravo to Clint and the RCMP and all others involved.

Yes, I watched that video, too and it looked like a wonderful trip.

I was very impressed with Clint and really appreciate him using his knowledge of the river to find the very important clues.

So where exactly did he spot the sleeping bag?

 

[MassGuy]

The difficulty in northern BC and the Yukon is a means of communication. While those of us in populated areas can read the news online, watch TV or listen to the radio, reaching out to people who have access to none of that due to the remoteness is a real challenge and there’s no simple solution. And the irony is, for tourists, knowing that one is leaving all that behind is also one of the attractions of visiting the far north.

An example of the RCMPs attempt to overcome the communication challenge is the photo of the electronic billboards asking for people who travelled the Alaskan Highway with dashcam footage from July 14/15th to contact the RCMP. Anywhere else, that request would be made through the local media.

It’s one thing to have difficulty in disseminating that information to the public.

It’s another thing to wait, and be vague.

It’s the principal at this point, as sitting on the fact that two people had been shot to death, and (at that point) a dangerous killer was on the loose, didn’t change anything.

But this should be recognized as a mistake, and never happen again.

One of the major Canadian networks had an interview with a former homicide detective.

I don’t recall where in Canada he worked, but he was incredulous as to the delay in communicating the risk to the public.

I agree with him.

ETA link

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/police-privacy-public-homicide-1.5227535

 

[scrappinkat]

for sure, but I was replying to someone speculating about them going overboard. I was thinking of the current making it unlikely for them to stay together.
I have to add that I had never heard of dry drowning.

Dry drowning: Symptoms, causes, and when to see a doctor

Ive seen it in the news more and more this past few years. Just this week in our news there’s been a story of a man who swam out to rescue a woman who drifted out to far and found herself heading for a dangerous area of the lake. He managed to bring her back to shore and saved her, but was found dead less than 24 hours later. His wife said after the rescue he had been complaining of how utterly drained he felt and how everything hurt, but thought it was just the after effects of his swim to save her, they now believe that was due to dry drowning. (It was just a couple days ago so I’m not sure if there’s any updates about his cause of death.)

 

[dameagatha]

Have you ever seen the film Bonnie and Clyde, or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, or the original version of Breathless? Or Lindsay Anderson’s If..., which is the film that made a young actor named Malcolm McDowell famous overnight? Indeed, have you seen A Clockwork Orange?

The absence of defined motive plus the ambiguous ending gives filmmakers huge room to play.

I was thinking about A Clockwork Orange this week, too. A Gena Davis interview on the radio today included discussion of Thelma & Louise. In that movie, the killing is an accident but they know no one will believe them, so they take off on a wild ride until being faced with the famous ending.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, I watched that video, too and it looked like a wonderful trip.

I was very impressed with Clint and really appreciate him using his knowledge of the river to find the very important clues.

So where exactly did he spot the sleeping bag?

According to the news article upthread, he spotted it near Pt. Nelson. That's almost at Hudson Bay, so it must have floated a long way down the river.

 

[scrappinkat]

In the video preview of the 60 minutes Australia that’s to be aired Sunday - did anyone else catch the error in the beginning? Was it an error?

Editing to add that I guess the error is in my eardrums. I was thinking the narrator said “Sidneys Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese and two others” for a total of four murdered people. (I was thinking he sorta mumbled or said her name wrong). It seems he said “Sidneys Lucas Fowler and two others”.

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

I meant was the jet boat operator (Clint Sawchuk) doing some amateur sleuthing. I can't imagine he was taking passengers in the boat as I imagine tourism has been way down in the area the past few weeks.

I thought this was a good article with details from how it happened -
How a river guide’s sharp eye, and a sleeping bag, triggered a search that ended the RCMP manhunt

 

[Danaya]

Honestly, I think if faced with two choices, I would rather spend the rest of my life (or a good portion of it) in a Canadian prison than attempt to navigate and hide out in the wilderness of Gillam. These two really didn't want any part of society, I don't think.

 

[JudgeJudi]

It probably won't happen but my greatest wish today is that a couple of the recovered items turn out to have belonged to LF and CD. There would then be some sense of finality for their families as to who did it. I can't begin to imagine how any parents deal with such tragedies.

As for BS and KM's families, can you even begin to comprehend how you go from having a missing child who you suspect may have been murdered, to your child becoming the suspected murderer, and then your child is dead. Irrespective of their parenting skills, or lack thereof, they too are victims.