Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #12

[sandbar]

Ive seen it in the news more and more this past few years. Just this week in our news there’s been a story of a man who swam out to rescue a woman who drifted out to far and found herself heading for a dangerous area of the lake. He managed to bring her back to shore and saved her, but was found dead less than 24 hours later. His wife said after the rescue he had been complaining of how utterly drained he felt and how everything hurt, but thought it was just the after effects of his swim to save her, they now believe that was due to dry drowning. (It was just a couple days ago so I’m not sure if there’s any updates about his cause of death.)

wow, that's a devastating story

 

[MistyWaters]

It’s one thing to have difficulty in disseminating that information to the public.

It’s another thing to wait, and be vague.

It’s the principal at this point, as sitting on the fact that two people had been shot to death, and (at that point) a dangerous killer was on the loose, didn’t change anything.

But this should be recognized as a mistake, and never happen again.

One of the major Canadian networks had an interview with a former homicide detective.

I don’t recall where in Canada he worked, but he was incredulous as to the delay in communicating the risk to the public.

I agree with him.

ETA link

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/police-privacy-public-homicide-1.5227535

The “suspicious” deaths were published in local papers but hadn’t yet captured the national media attention

But what’s unique about this particular case I think was issues involving identifying the victims. Much like Mr Dyck’s family chose not to allow his cause of death to be released, until L&C were identified, there were no known family members to authorize what’s otherwise considered confidential information.

I know it seems rather ridiculous if it has the potential to put the public at risk and it’s indeed a controversial subject but it’s also beyond the decision of the RCMP in what or how much information can be published.

July 16th - Fort St John
Two people found dead south of Liard River Hotsprings - Energeticcity.ca

 

[Arizona 123]

According to the news article upthread, he spotted it near Pt. Nelson. That's almost at Hudson Bay, so it must have floated a long way down the river.

It's about 70 miles by river from Lower Limestone Rapids to Port Nelson (the abandoned port on the north side of the Nelson river mouth) measured roughly along the river route. How long it would take a sleeping bag to float there is something I cannot even guess at; it would surely end up in eddys and slow areas quite a bit. It's also unknown how long it was there before he saw it, and he saw it Friday per the article.

What this does tell us, though, is that if it came from the boat wrecking in Lower Limestone Rapids, that wreck happened in the middle of last week at the most recent. IMHO, this lends credence to the theory that they began their boat trip very soon after torching the RAV4.

 

[dameagatha]

My alternative theory: They weren't alone, whoever was with them was probably responsible for the murders. They or their contacts were the ones who recorded them walking out of the store, and arranged for the torching of the vehicles to leave a trail of evidence pointing to these two guys. And then hushed them up in those woods, perhaps waited a couple of weeks to make sure the weather worked on the evidence to give a tip as to where their bodies were located. I know that sounds crazy, but framing someone for murder isn't exactly new.

Total bunk.

 

[dameagatha]

I think that's just how he looked though. I was wondering why he looked so familiar. Then I saw people saying he looked like Martin Shkreli and I was like "yeah...I can see it." Keep in mind that when Martin Shkreli went on trial several jurors had to be dismissed because they said "he looks like a total ******* and I would rule him guilty on that alone."

You’re funny.

 

[Jen-Knee]

I don't even know what to say about AS doing an exclusive with a media outlet. It's wrong of them to be bothering these families in the first place, but for him to go and do this? His family needs to do an intervention or something, obviously he needs help and support. I don't think I'll even watch it. He was absent from his son's life for a number of years, and I wouldn't be surprised if he exaggerates or fabricates some things.

 

[Optics]

BC and national RCMP should check how the victims ended up crossing paths with the killers.

I am confident the RCMP in BC have all the information from Mr. Dyck's family on what date he left home for Dease Lake area and so forth. Without the killer's confessions that we know of the police will and are piecing everything to the best of their ability with all the evidence they have already accumulated since July 15.

 

[Northernmost]

I fail to understand why arguing about their height of placement of the surveillance cameras is relevant at this point?

Seems rather moot if the bodies are indeed them.

 

[Optics]

Disagree on one point, and that was the delay in telling the public that that two people had been shot to death.

It’s my lone criticism here, as everything else has been stellar.

With a crime scene like that, you know that it is highly probable that there is a killer on the loose, and he is unknown to the victims.

This isn’t a stretch, and I can’t believe they did not know that at the time.

This is the most dangerous type of killer, because he kills at random, striking vulnerable victims of opportunity.

In the end, it did not matter. But this is something that everyone needs to learn from.

Yes I totally agree @MassGuy on the delay on them being shot to death. Perhaps they were trying to figure out the profile for whoever killed them and didn't want to tip off the killer/s . Maybe in time they will answer that question (the rcmp).

 

[sprucetip]

Disagree on one point, and that was the delay in telling the public that that two people had been shot to death.

It’s my lone criticism here, as everything else has been stellar.

With a crime scene like that, you know that it is highly probable that there is a killer on the loose, and he is unknown to the victims.

This isn’t a stretch, and I can’t believe they did not know that at the time.

This is the most dangerous type of killer, because he kills at random, striking vulnerable victims of opportunity.

In the end, it did not matter. But this is something that everyone needs to learn from.

Yep, totally agree. We heard about the murders and they only said ‘suspicious deaths’, but everyone I know was questioning it because that doesn’t happen often on the a
AK Hwy. Being in the Yukon, we knew that if they were murdered, the murderer was going up the AK Hwy or down it. People were a bit nervous and miffed that there wasn’t more mentioned and that our local media did nothing. No asking any questions! The Australian media beat them to it! Argh.

 

[webbie]

Thank you for saying, what I wanted to say as well! This had to be if not terrifying at least very stressful given how extremely dense the bush was, etc. Thank you to the RCMP for doing whatever needs to be done!

All things being relative, I would think this manhunt was much more terrifying and stressful for the hunted than the hunters.

 

[sprucetip]

The difficulty in northern BC and the Yukon is a means of communication. While those of us in populated areas can read the news online, watch TV or listen to the radio, reaching out to people who have access to none of that due to the remoteness is a real challenge and there’s no simple solution. And the irony is, for tourists, knowing that one is leaving all that behind is also one of the attractions of visiting the far north.

An example of the RCMPs attempt to overcome the communication challenge is the photo of the electronic billboards asking for people who travelled the Alaskan Highway with dashcam footage from July 14/15th to contact the RCMP. Anywhere else, that request would be made through the local media.

It’s only a challenge along the Hwy where there is no cell service. Other than that, people in (most of) the Yukon are very well connected. Also, many outside of the bigger centres and with no service rely on CBC on the radio for their news. That said, as I’ve mentioned before, the local media was useless in the early stages. But, had the RCMP been more forthcoming, maybe they would have picked up on it quicker.

We have electronic billboards here right in the city of Whitehorse, they're used all over. I think the RCMP used it down the Hwy because they needed to get the message out to people in that area ASAP.

 

[Optics]

The “suspicious” deaths were published in local papers but hadn’t yet captured the national media attention

But what’s unique about this particular case I think was issues involving identifying the victims. Much like Mr Dyck’s family chose not to allow his cause of death to be released, until L&C were identified, there were no known family members to authorize what’s otherwise considered confidential information.

I tried to listen as keenly as possible when the BCRCMP did the presser today. I don't recall the police saying at all through this whole process that he had been shot. I've had a personal feeling that that his death was not gunshot, but possibly killed with the knife the two killers purchased.

 

[Arizona 123]

The “suspicious” deaths were published in local papers but hadn’t yet captured the national media attention

But what’s unique about this particular case I think was issues involving identifying the victims. Much like Mr Dyck’s family chose not to allow his cause of death to be released, until L&C were identified, there were no known family members to authorize what’s otherwise considered confidential information.

I know it seems rather ridiculous if it has the potential to put the public at risk and it’s indeed a controversial subject but it’s also beyond the decision of the RCMP in what or how much information can be published.

July 16th - Fort St John
Two people found dead south of Liard River Hotsprings - Energeticcity.ca

With the exception of this matter, I think the RCMP has done a superb job. I also defend them in the issue of their taking 4 hours to reach the scene; given the location, I was surprised they got there that fast.

However, their defense on not releasing the fact that a double homicide had occurred focuses on releasing the names. IMHO, releasing the names is irrelevant to the actual issue, and strikes me as deflection. The issue is that they knew a murderer or murderers was at large, and had committed a double murder by firearm of travelers on the Alaska Highway, and chose to withold that information from the public who were at risk.

It is also troubling IMHO that the release of this fact had to come from Australia, days after the event.

I can understand their reluctance to release victim's names. The fact they were murdered, however, is a public safety issue, and utterly unrelated to whether or not to release their names. They most certainly could have released the fact they were murdered by gunfire without releasing their names, had they so wished.

We do not know under what circumstances Professor Dyck encountered his murderers. We also do not know when he was killed. However, indications are, due to the visibility of his body, that it was not long before the burning truck was found.

If, in those days, the professor had turned on his car radio, or checked the news at Dease Lake gas station, it is possible he might have heard the news, and been more wary. At least, he would have had that chance. Not releasing the fact the couple were murdered took that chance away from him, for no plausible reason.

I think the RCMP needs to either come up with a more plausible reason for withholding that information, or change its policy. Perhaps in so doing, some future innocent life will be saved, and thus some good can yet come from this otherwise horrific series of events.

 

[dameagatha]

Thank you. One of the reasons I've hesitated to join here after reading the past few weeks was because of certain posters insisting on arguing over the simplest facts. It's frustrating to scroll through it all, only to see it happening again thread after thread.

It can be equally frustrating to have people drop into page 45 & state they haven’t read previous posts and make wrong statements that other people spent hours clarifying 24 hours ago.

 

[Seattle1]

Determining motive of B.C. murder suspects will be speculation after bodies found: ex-investigator

CBC News
Published on Aug 7, 2019

Determining the motive of two men suspected of killing three people in B.C. will be speculation based on intelligence and evidence, says ex-RCMP investigator Steve Marissink. after the RCMP announced they believe they have found the bodies of homicide suspects Bryer Schmegelsky and Kam McLeod. To read more: http://cbc.ca/1.5236329

Video includes footage of area where LD's body recovered which was new to me.

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

I think this article provides info with links to lots of videos that are very informative and I had not seen before, especially in one place
B.C. murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky, Kam McLeod believed to be dead | Globalnews.ca

 

[Boxer]

All things being relative, I would think this manhunt was much more terrifying and stressful for the hunted than the hunters.

Hunting killer with no hope of escape is very dangerous. If the criminals manage to evade tech like IR, a search team could get accidentally get close enough to them to be ambushed.

 

[Seattle1]

Former investigator talks B.C. fugitives’ plan, motive as manhunt ends | In-Depth

CBC News: The National
Published on Aug 7, 2019

A former major crimes investigator brings his experience to questions of what motivated Bryer Schmegelsky and Kam McLeod and what their plan was as the manhunt comes to an end.

 

[mtnstream]

...One of the major Canadian networks had an interview with a former homicide detective.

I don’t recall where in Canada he worked, but he was incredulous as to the delay in communicating the risk to the public.

I agree with him.

ETA link

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/police-privacy-public-homicide-1.5227535

Hmm, thank you for that article, I hadn't read that before. Perhaps RMCP had to identify the victims and their vehicle, and notify their relatives before they said the words homicide victims in a public statement?