Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

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Many years ago, I worked with a young man their age who killed someone with a rifle, and who was eventually found not criminally responsible due to mental illness.

It turned out that a lot of people, including adult family members and school teachers, knew, or should have known, for a long time that there was a problem.

I would not be surprised if, in retrospect, it is clear that there should have been an intervention with these guys a long time ago.
Interesting. I think it’s easy for family to put on blinders to questionable behaviour. But it’s also quite possible the two of them (Kam more than Bryer) were really good at hiding their questionable behaviour.

The psychology behind all of this is fascinating.
 
It was a joke. Here's the full exchange:

"Mom and dad's going to be pissed," Ste-Croix told the two men as he drove up. He said he figured they were local teens out for a rip in their parents' Toyota RAV4, which was stuck and covered in mud.

"They looked at me and said, 'No, mom and dad told me to go for a long joy ride," Ste-Croix said.

He said the three of them then laughed.

source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

I thought the exchange illustrated a certain quickness and wittiness with both suspects, which I typically think of as a sign of intelligence. The use of the term “joyride” was brazen though. It perked up my “Kam may be much more dangerous than he ever appeared” spidey senses. It could be seen as a power move - telling an unsuspecting stranger to his face that that car you know he will learn is stolen soon enough, is stolen. Luka Magnotta made an art out of leaving clues online leading up to his gruesome crimes that meant people and groups he had interacted with would eventually know he had been there in retrospect.
 
I think it's possible they delighted in confounding people. I also wonder if, deep down, Kam despised his family, though they really do seem normal to all appearances. But quite a bit of his actions on this trip are the equivalent of basically giving them the middle finger. Bryer, too, but I can see why he would be mad at his parents and want to give them the equivalent of the middle finger.

I'm not even talking about the murders. I'm talking about likely lying about where they were going, burning a truck that very well may have been a gift, not contacting them, etc.
Well that would certainly explain most of their actions along the way!
 
I ALWAYS refer to suspects/perps by their last names if I’m not using initials...until this case. I simply cannot be arsed typing “Schmegelsky”. LOL. It’s long, awkward and sounds like something SNL made up for a skit.
LOL I usually use the last name too... Schmegelsky is way too hard though, I don't have time to look it up for posts. :confused: I am not proud of this laziness .. :D
 
.... The fact and truth is the majority of public has no issues with the RCMP or how they handle cases. ...

That's not really true. For example, the RCMP's own survey shows that only 49% of Canadians agree that the RCMP treats women fairly.

source: Canadians’ Views of RCMP Policing Services 2018-2019 | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

And the RCMP itself identifies "increasing transparency" as a "potential area for improvement."

source: Client and partner survey results | Royal Canadian Mounted Police
 
I'm pretty sure that Dr Leonard Dyck relied on good old fashioned car radio for news. The idea that people need a cell phone to get information is a bit narrow in scope.

Also, as an intelligent educated man in his 60s, he would understand that a suspicious death investigated by the RCMP major crime unit means murder. That is exactly how murders are reported in Canada - always. Gun violence is always used by officials to describe shooting. There's really no excuse for anyone in Canada to act as though these terms are new

There was no Martial Law. Citizens were not ordered to do one thing or another. They were told about the danger and free to choose whether to change their behaviour due to the warning.

The man who towed the van to the RCMP detachment was not in danger. He did not realize prior to arriving at the scene that the van was related to a murder, but that did not change anything.

What tips and evidence were not checked?
Absolutely! As an Albertan when I hear suspicious death, I know it means a homicide or homicide/suicide in 99% of the cases.
 
I thought the exchange illustrated a certain quickness and wittiness with both suspects, which I typically think of as a sign of intelligence. The use of the term “joyride” was brazen though. It perked up my “Kam may be much more dangerous than he ever appeared” spidey senses. It could be seen as a power move - telling an unsuspecting stranger to his face that that car you know he will learn is stolen soon enough, is stolen. Luka Magnotta made an art out of leaving clues online leading up to his gruesome crimes that meant people and groups he had interacted with would eventually know he had been there in retrospect.
Good post! On the surface, it is quite slick since the guy thought they were just a couple of locals joy-riding with mom's and dad's truck. He later said they were really eyeballing him and seemed nervous, but of course, you would if you just stole your parents' car for a joy-ride and got it bogged down in mud. Or, you know, if you were on the run for killing 3 people and driving a stolen vehicle, but it wouldn't be obvious in that situation they were actual criminals until that dawning realization after he knew what was actually going on.
 
In all fairness people who've had a negative experience with police will tend to speak negatively toward them. The fact and truth is the majority of public has no issues with the RCMP or how they handle cases. This is and has been a complex case which has had many twists and turns - as in any law enforcement investigations - it is ludicrous for LE to report every detail to the general public. From BC to Manitoba as we 'keyboard' there are countless experts sifting through the evidence accumulated so far. This is not a quick case to say John Doe threatened Bob Doe, so Bob Doe killed him. Forensics take time, autopsies take time. Searchs and establishing a trail of evidence and connecting the dots takes time.
I am critical of their dissemination of information initially (I’m not going down that road of discussing it again) and I have had zero negative interactions with the police. I have said repeatedly that I applaud them for everything else they’ve done along the way. I have stuck up for them on numerous forums. It is perfectly valid to question something they do though, they and the system are not perfect. There can always be improvements and if many people feel their safety was at risk then perhaps they need to look closer at their processes. Of course they are not going to be perfect, this is a rare, rare thing that happened on a very remote stretch of highway. But hopefully everyone can learn from it and do better in the future.
 
For those saying that all Canadians trust our LE - what? I’m not even sure we’re living in the same Canada right now, lol.

One thing is true though: Canadians have a love/hate relationship with the RCMP. My late husband was an mountie for 30 years but he rarely introduced himself as such. When strangers asked what his profession was, he’d often say he was a “civil servant” followed by a rapid subject change. Oddly, with Americans he was more forthright, I think Americans have a more romanticized view of the RCMP, you know - red serge and horses and always get their man. Sometimes Canadians like to push that romanticized view too, when it suits us. But that’s not the reality. A lot … a LOT … of Canadians distrust and lack faith in the RCMP, I’ve seen it with my own eyes. And not just the ones who’ve been in trouble with the law.

Knowing just a little bit (a very little bit!) about the RCMP and its workings, with true Canadian political correctness I think it’s safe to say, and my late husband would be the first to admit: there’s always room for improvement. As mentioned above, they have been working on transparency, for example, because historically transparency has been a huge issue.

I, for one, would sure appreciate it if they were more forthcoming in this case and I think that eventually they will be, even if only in their limited way.
 
Just did a check on Port Alberni Secondary School. Over the five grades from 8 through 12, there are 1,114 students. The Fraser Institute, a Vancouver conservative think tank that rates B.C. public schools, gives it 6.5/10, although that’s up quite a bit from its five year average:

Alberni District Secondary Port Alberni British Columbia Academic school ranking

There’s also an alternative school (VAST) for kids with performance/fitting in issues, grades 9-12:

VAST - School District 70 (Alberni)

Update: @Zella says five posts below that they both attended VAST.
 
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Was the vehicle towed before or after it was connected to the murders?

Off the top of my head I’m not to sure, I assume the burned RAV4 would be one of markers on a map or timeline that I’ve seen posted fairly often. As to when it was towed? I’m not sure that info was ever included on a timeline or not, although as far as I understood LE had suspicions and connected it very soon after. At any rate I’m not sure I want to delve into the 13 different threads to find various posts to figure it out at this moment lol.
 
There is no need for rudeness or dismissing other countries here. Two of the murder victims came from another country. The article is from the country of one of the murder victims, and, yes, the people of that country are still hoping for answers.

That's very true but when you travel to another country, you are subject to the laws and investigative policies of the country you are in, just as Canadians should if they travel to another country. I can't imagine that uproar Canadians started telling Americans how the FBI should conduct and investigation or what information should be released to the public.

The victims families will receive answers when the investigation is complete and having had a family member murdered, I found some comfort in the fact that those little details not released to the public were admissable in court and generated a conviction.

Much has been made about the keys at the scene of the RAV4 and how police should have stood watch over that scene. I would invite those who feel that way to review the Mayerthorpe murders to consider why police may not have left a member or two to stand guard. We had 4 RCMP members shot and killed while guarding a crime scene while the suspect was still at large.

We still don't know if the RAV4 was removed by RCMP, the Ministry of Transportation or someone else or if the keys were tossed on the ground under a burning vehicle, fell out when the vehicle was loaded onto a tow truck or buried under dirt.
 
I am critical of their dissemination of information initially (I’m not going down that road of discussing it again) and I have had zero negative interactions with the police. I have said repeatedly that I applaud them for everything else they’ve done along the way. I have stuck up for them on numerous forums. It is perfectly valid to question something they do though, they and the system are not perfect. There can always be improvements and if many people feel their safety was at risk then perhaps they need to look closer at their processes. Of course they are not going to be perfect, this is a rare, rare thing that happened on a very remote stretch of highway. But hopefully everyone can learn from it and do better in the future.
The point is let them finish the investigations first, gosh this case is not closed, there is so much more they are compiling together, but they can't do that with a snap, crackle, pop of the fingers. As a mandatory there is always a Review of EVERTHING the police force did each step of the way.....this one will spread across jurisdictions half way across Canada. There could also easily be an inquest upon the release of the Coroner's report. This is still an Open investigation with multifaceted unique circumstances. It sometimes feels that we as the public have become so addicted to "instant" instead of "patience". We want everything right here, right now as a society, and that isn't the way real life works.
 
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Just did a check on Port Alberni Secondary School. Over the five grades from 8 through 12, there are 1,114 students. The Fraser Institute, a conservative think tank that rates B.C. public schools, gives it 6.5/10, although that’s up quite a bit from its five year average:

Alberni District Secondary Port Alberni British Columbia Academic school ranking

There’s also an alternative school (VAST) for kids with academic issues, grades 9-12:

VAST - School District 70 (Alberni)
They apparently attended the second school (VAST). Kam graduated from there last year, according to the local newspaper. Bryer was never photographed as a graduate for this year or listed as an unphotographed graduate, though some sources reported he graduated and others say he didn't.

True. I really appreciated the one article that talked about his life and showed pics of him traveling. He looked really fun and adventurous, like a happy-go-Lucky hippy type. Reminded me of LF and CD.
I loved the one that showed old pictures of him in the 70s and 80s! He seemed like a super cool guy who probably had a lot of great stories to tell.
 
For those saying that all Canadians trust our LE - what? I’m not even sure we’re living in the same Canada right now, lol.

One thing is true though: Canadians have a love/hate relationship with the RCMP. My late husband was an mountie for 30 years but he rarely introduced himself as such. When strangers asked what his profession was, he’d often say he was a “civil servant” followed by a rapid subject change. Oddly, with Americans he was more forthright, I think Americans have a more romanticized view of the RCMP, you know - red serge and horses and always get their man. Sometimes Canadians like to push that romanticized view too, when it suits us. But that’s not the reality. A lot … a LOT … of Canadians distrust and lack faith in the RCMP, I’ve seen it with my own eyes. And not just the ones who’ve been in trouble with the law.

Knowing just a little bit (a very little bit!) about the RCMP and its workings, with true Canadian political correctness I think it’s safe to say, and my late husband would be the first to admit: there’s always room for improvement. As mentioned above, they have been working on transparency, for example, because historically transparency has been a huge issue.

I, for one, would sure appreciate it if they were more forthcoming in this case and I think that eventually they will be, even if only in their limited way.
Thanks for your inside knowledge. I have an uncle who is an RCMP and have heard stories on how he’s treated by the general public, it’s similar.
 
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