Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[musicaljoke]

So why in a remote area of Manitoba, where it would have been possible to contain and/or patrol the area, would police find it too dangerous to investigate a crime scene, yet let the public enter the area? If it was too dangerous for the police, why was a tow truck driver allowed into the area?

The explanation offered for not checking out evidence at the scene of a crime is substandard at best. Surely days and weeks later, that becomes an excuse, rather than an explanation.

I feel sorry for the tow truck driver now, wondering if the authorities informed him that he would be putting his life in danger by towing the SUV. I would really like to hear what he has to say, if any reporters are reading this. Do RCMP typically accompany tow trucks to the scene of vehicle fires up there?

Oh, boy, question period in the fall session of parliament is going to be a zinger.

Was the place where the RAV was burned ever declared a crime scene? If the fugitives were already charged with the murders in BC., then they were never going to face charges of vehicle theft and arson in MB.

The work for the MB RCMP was to locate the suspects. The BC RCMP were gathering evidence for the murders.

 

[Zella]

Treating women fairly is more of a societal issue than an RCMP issue. For example, equal pay for equal work is a global problem, and an ongoing Canadian problem.

April 9, 2019

"Brianne Cail wasn’t meant to find out that her male colleague was earning more money than she was. ... Cail’s experience highlights many Canadians’ realities: the gender pay gap.

The gender pay gap is the difference in earnings between women and men in the workplace. This pay inequality means that women, on average, make less than men."​

Equal Pay Day: Not making as much as your male coworker? Here’s what you can do

I'm not Canadian, so don't really know what the public debates about the RCMP, but that section of the poll seemed to be asking about sensitivity toward people they come into contact and not necessarily the way female Mounties are treated. I could be wrong, though! Just how I interpreted it since it was alongside questions about how other cultures and First Nations are treated (which I do know is a topic of debate), as well as LGBTQ populations.

 

[dameagatha]

I was just listening to an August 7th, CBC interview, the lawyer interviewed stated Mr Dycks body was burnt (see 4:55 mark). I have never heard this before. Anyone else?
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1584469571997

I think this was an excellent summary analysis by an uninvolved professional criminal lawyer. It includes tantalizing new ideas about Port Alberni cold cases. However, he was speaking generally & fast.

My impression is he misspoke when he said they found Prof Dyck’s body burnt, before or after he said RCMP have not released information about Prof Dyck, which is correct.

 

[otto]

Off the top of my head I’m not to sure, I assume the burned RAV4 would be one of markers on a map or timeline that I’ve seen posted fairly often. As to when it was towed? I’m not sure that info was ever included on a timeline or not, although as far as I understood LE had suspicions and connected it very soon after. At any rate I’m not sure I want to delve into the 13 different threads to find various posts to figure it out at this moment lol.

The point is that it was burning on July 22. RCMP were not present. If the vehicle was towed at that time, no one had any reason to be afraid because they didn't know it was connected to the murders. If it was towed after RCMP connected it to the murders, then they would have been on scene when it was loaded to the back of the truck.

 

[sprucetip]

The point is let them finish the investigations first, gosh this cash is not closed, there is so much more they are compiling together, but they can't do that with a snap, crackle, pop of the fingers. As a mandatory there is always a Review of EVERTHING the police force did each step of the way.....this one will spread across jurisdictions half way across Canada. There could also easily be an inquest upon the release of the Coroner's report. This is still an Open investigation with multifaceted unique circumstances. It sometimes feels that we as the public have become so addicted to "instant" instead of "patience". We want everything right here, right now as a society, and that isn't the way real life works.

I did not ask for an instant answer now. Not sure where you got that from.

Of course there will be more info later but we Canadians are allowed to question processes along the way. If we couldn’t that would be ridiculous and change would never happen. The RCMP and governments in general are trying to be more transparent. Stifling or dissuading the public from asking questions goes directly against that.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think there are 2 types of suicide, but common denominator is deep depression. You have those who are is such mental pain and anguish, that the thought of death is much more pleasurable than life. Some people are happy at the thought their pain will be over soon and take meticulous steps to ensure they leave an explanation of why, and instructions on their behalf (where to find a will, taking care of unfinished business, etc). Then you have the other type, that do it out of spite/defiance/revenge... "They'll be sorry when I'm dead", type of scenario. Taking out others before taking out themselves. No note, no explanation whatsoever and an aspect of shame that goes with it. Making a "killem" fantasy come true just to experience what it's like to take someone's life. Pathetic.

I read only about 20% of people who kill themselves leave a note (sorry cant look up source rn).

I think it's possible they delighted in confounding people. I also wonder if, deep down, Kam despised his family, though they really do seem normal to all appearances. But quite a bit of his actions on this trip are the equivalent of basically giving them the middle finger. Bryer, too, but I can see why he would be mad at his parents and want to give them the equivalent of the middle finger.

I'm not even talking about the murders. I'm talking about likely lying about where they were going, burning a truck that very well may have been a gift, not contacting them, etc.

Given the age they were, I think giving a middle finger to their parents was at least part of it.

Imoo. I think that maybe some are thinking that Kam’s home life was “normal or non dysfunctional”. Just because they may be affluent and have distanced themselves from the media circus. The little communication that was given to the media appeared carefully filtered and doesn’t mean-anything to me.

Every family has their problems and imo something MIGHT be off in that family as well. It was easy to see the dysfunction in BS’s family because his dad has mental health issues (links provided previously) and he has no filter.

I'd bet money there was stuff going on that we don't know about. In my experience when family dysfunction is in the open so tends to be the kid/teenager's dysfunctions -- when the family dysfunction is hidden, so are the kid/teenager's dysfunctions (usually).

 

[dameagatha]

I wonder how they were able to create such a detailed image of Mr. Dyck when they sought to identify him if that were in fact true. I haven't heard that his body was burned before and I am not sure I believe that what this lawyer says is true. Perhaps he is confused given the two vehicles were burned.

I believe he misspoke. He also correctly said no details have been made public.

 

[otto]

I'm not Canadian, so don't really know what the public debates about the RCMP, but that section of the poll seemed to be asking about sensitivity toward people they come into contact and not necessarily the way female Mounties are treated. I could be wrong, though! Just how I interpreted it since it was alongside questions about how other cultures and First Nations are treated (which I do know is a topic of debate), as well as LGBTQ populations.

My point is that the redneck is alive and well in Canada (as it is in the USA), and it should not be a surprise that it will most likely take a long time for attitudes to shift.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

There’s going to be quite a discussion within the public school system about the history of these two as students, and what warning signs, if any, were missed.

 

[dameagatha]

He did say "burnt". OMG, first I have heard this!

It’s incorrect. Listen to the interview. Details of Prof Dyck’s murder have not been made public.

 

[JuneBug67]

Thanks for your inside knowledge. I have an uncle who is an RCMP and have heard stories on how he’s treated by the general public, it’s similar.

I’ve got two family members who are OPP and it’s a stress of the job for sure. I think the effect is significantly magnified in rural areas, which is where provincial forces and RMCP acting as provincial forces have the vast majority of their active presence. There is less of that urban appreciation for a sense of protection close by, because often they’re not able to be close by. Nobody is generally happy to see a cop there because if you’re seeing a cop and you didn’t call one, they’re probably enforcing some law against you, most frequently traffic. It can set a poor foundation for police-community relations if your interactions are so dominated by negative or unwanted contact.

 

[Snoop Sister]

True. I really appreciated the one article that talked about his life and showed pics of him traveling. He looked really fun and adventurous, like a happy-go-Lucky hippy type. Reminded me of LF and CD.

I believe from what I have read and pics of Prof. Dyck, imo he was free spirited just like Lucas and Chynna and “hippy like”.

 

[dameagatha]

With all due respect to the attorney being interviewed, I don't think he has any inside information. I just got to the point where he states that in the interview, but the entire discussion beforehand, he has clearly not been operating with any insider knowledge. I think he confused the burning truck with the body. I could be wrong, but that's my read on it. MOO

Totally agree. He says in the same section of the interview no details have been made public about Prof Dyck’s murder.

 

[Optics]

Yes and no. University researchers tend to stay on top of the news, in part because innovative discoveries are reported in the daily news. This article is unrelated to this discussion, but it is an example of research that was published in national and international news. As a botanist, Dyck would also be interested in local weather. I would be very surprised if a 60+ year old academic and researcher was unaware of daily news. Doing so would be a type of handicap in his professional life.

So let's try put this into perspective. Hypothetically:
1. Mr. Dyck left for the Dease Lake area from the lower mainland likely on July 18. It is a 1721km drive or 1069 miles. Further Dease Lake is 464 km from Liard or 300 miles.
2. It is highly logical to assume, even if he heard a news bulletin back at home on the 2 deaths, it was a Huge distance from where he was going.
3. For all intents the 'killer/s' could have been headed toward Fort Nelson - the opposite direction of Dease Lake. That was what the RCMP were trying to establish from Liard murders.
4. There was no viable reason for Mr. Dyck to be more alert. The geographic distance was huge.
5. He was at the wrong place at the wrong time, just as Lucas and Chynna were at the wrong place, at the wrong time.
6. If that doesn't make a little sense - in my small town area there are currently 3 or 4 murders within less than 50km of my home for which the suspects have not been caught or arrested. That does not stop me or others from going up a rural road be it berry picking, creek fishing or even to the grocery store.

 

[otto]

There’s going to be quite a discussion within the public school system about the history of these two as students, and what warning signs, if any, were missed.

I doubt it. If they were coded students (would not surprise me) with an individual learning program, the schools knew they had social, physical, or learning challenges. The most the school can do is discuss concerns with parents during regularly scheduled meetings related to coded student progress. Parents can do their best to connect with their children, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

 

[SteveP]

I just want to say this before the thread gets shut down yet again because of bickering. Any comment made by an American that is not totally complimentary of RCMP is NOT a smear against the entire country of Canada, and does not have to be responded to with a "yeah, but you Americans are worse". This isn't a pissing contest, on either side. I personally think RCMP did a great job finding these suspects, but I have seen some legitimate complaints leveled here too, from posters of multiple countries, not the least of which is Canada.

 

[sprucetip]

I’ve got two family members who are OPP and it’s a stress of the job for sure. I think the effect is significantly magnified in rural areas, which is where provincial forces and RMCP acting as provincial forces have the vast majority of their active presence. There is less of that urban appreciation for a sense of protection close by, because often they’re not able to be close by. Nobody is generally happy to see a cop there because if you’re seeing a cop and you didn’t call one, they’re probably enforcing some law against you, most frequently traffic. It can set a poor foundation for police-community relations if your interactions are so dominated by negative or unwanted contact.

That’s a good point regarding the rural areas where they don’t have a police presence.

Alternatively here in the Yukon, we have communities that have maybe one or two RCMP and because the town is so small, everyone knows the RCMP and they know everyone. These relationships are usually really good, the police are really involved with the community(as are their families) and they know each other on a personal level. We had some crazy couple go on a robbery spree thru one town then there was a chase. They basically had a shootout with the RCMP and everyone was concerned when the officer got hit, he had been in the community for years. He was ok in the end. The outpouring of concern and support for him was massive in that tiny community.

 

[otto]

Actually, I'm betting folks' views on this subject has more to do with the likes of this:

Second $100M settlement announced in RCMP sexual harassment case

And no, that is not a societal issue. That is a systemic issue within the RCMP that has festered for many years.

But that's all beside the point. The claim was made that the majority of Candians have "no issues." If you look over that survey, Canadians have all sorts of issues. I'm not sure if folks with issues make up the majority or not, but clearly many, many Canadians do have issues with the RCMP.

I wondered how long it would take for that to be added to the discussion about the three murders in BC. Gender equality is a global, societal issue that has "festered" since the beginning of time and it has not prevented men and women from doing their jobs.

 

[Snoop Sister]

The point is that it was burning on July 22. RCMP were not present. If the vehicle was towed at that time, no one had any reason to be afraid because they didn't know it was connected to the murders. If it was towed after RCMP connected it to the murders, then they would have been on scene when it was loaded to the back of the truck.

Pretty sure irc, it was towed while it was connected to the murders. I will find the links sometime today.

 

[CinNC]

My point is that the redneck is alive and well in Canada (as it is in the USA), and it should not be a surprise that it will most likely take a long time for attitudes to shift.

In compliance with your statement about attitude shifts towards LE, I thought of a convo I had with a state trooper in northern rural Wisconsin where we lived until recently. This state trooper told me that posse comitatus is alive and well in small, isolated towns throughout the upper Midwest. NOT something that is widely discussed and also NOT something that is the case across the board.