Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[NJSleuth91]

Right, but others appear listed as unphotographed, and he doesn't, so it doesn't seem like solely a cost thing.

As for whether or not he graduated, it has nothing to do with him being a murderer, but it does seem to suggest he could have lied to his closest relatives about whether or not he graduated, which, if true, does tell us something about his personality, don't you think?

So, the issue isn't really if he graduated. It's the contradictory information surrounding whether or not he did.

It also could give insight into events leading up to the murders. That NPR article I shared said that perpetrators of random mass violence often feel very frustrated with their lives, that things are not going right in their lives, and often wish that someone would kill them or they could kill themselves. Not graduating and lying about it could indicate things going in that direction.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Yeah therein lies the problem. If parents have issues themselves and are unable to provide that support, then what happens? It should be the responsibility of our entire society to keep an eye out for this stuff and work together to solve it. Not just "it's your kid so you deal with it." Now, what that would look like in practice, well that's an extensive discussion that would require a lot of research.

Exactly. And what that might look like in practice is hours and hours spent with a psychologist, which starts at around $120/hr. That's simply not affordable for many families.

If the school can identify an issue, and offer counselling or a referral, then there are not a lot of parents who would say no. So the challenge is in identifying at risk individuals, and seeing to it that they get the treatment they need. There may well be lessons that can be learned from this case.

With the way Bryer's father said, "I'm sorry all of this had to happen," I suspect he knew there was risk and had no way of addressing it.

 

[copkid]

I come from a large family of police officers, some still serving and some retired. My respect for them and the job they do is immense.

Myself and my LE family have had many heated debates in these past weeks about this case.

LE get criticism no matter what they do or do not do.

However, not one of my LE family are ready to definitively conclude that BS & KM are 100% guilty of these crimes, especially the murders of Lucas & Chynna.

There simply has not yet been enough information released/confimed yet?

We are all feeling pretty confident that they were involved in the death of LD and the reasons are obvious...charges have been laid...the burning truck found only 2km from the body...the burned Rav 4, now confirmed to belong to LD, that they were driving found near Gillam.

But we keep going over and over the the possible tie to the LF/CD murders, and at present we are not finding any FACTUAL info that could possibly conclude that BS & KM are the responsible parties.

I know my opinion is not the popular one on this site but please help me understand, from a factual perspective, how so many here are 100% convinced these two are guilty.

Do we know for certain they had a gun?

Do we have any confirmed info that places them near the LF/CD crime scene or even in the general vicinity?

Do we know for certain they even travelled the Alaskan Hwy #97? They may have taken the Stewart Cassiar Hwy 37 route to head to WH?

We are aware they were gamers that possibly played violent video games but does that prove they are killers?

LE has named them as "suspects" and has stated there is substantial evidence but until some of that evidence is made public, I would rather wait instead of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

I truly want to see someone held accountable for this carnage too but I would prefer that it be the RIGHT person(s) and that it be beyond any reasonable doubt.

I know BS & KM are presumed deceased so there will not be charges or a trial but based on what we, the public, know to date, would there be any chance of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt?

GUILTY requires confirmed facts and evidence, to date neither has been publically provided.

JMO JMO JMO

 

[otto]

Former classmates of northern B.C. murder suspect say he would describe killing himself, others

They apparently happened at school when he was in Grade 7 at 13. It doesn't appear the girl was friends with him or interacted with him outside of a school setting. In fact, it just says they shared 1 class.

I assume it was not at the alternative high school since their website says they are Grade 9-12.

Edited to add: I assume this happened when he was living with his mom since grandma's house has been the past 2 years. His mother is reported to have been afraid of him. Maybe she was aware of these instances and it was one reason why or she was unaware and had her own personal experiences with him that led her to fear him.

Bryer was tall, his height alone could have intimidated his mom.

Most children are a product of their environment. At the age of 2, some children swear and others say "pardon me."

The first 6 years are very important in forming behaviour. Some parents think that the first 6 years don't matter because children are small and young.

Some children are neglected with the arrival of a new parent and a new sibling. Some 14 year olds realize that they are as big as their parents and can retaliate against parents.

 

[Zella]

It also could give insight into events leading up to the murders. That NPR article I shared said that perpetrators of random mass violence often feel very frustrated with their lives, that things are not going right in their lives, and often wish that someone would kill them or they could kill themselves. Not graduating and lying about it could indicate things going in that direction.

Good point! If he did, in fact, not graduate, he also may have felt really trapped at his job at Wal-Mart since he wouldn't have a diploma. I'm just assuming that Canada is like America, and that if you want to make decent money, you're usually expected to at least have a high school diploma. Kam would, on the surface, have had more opportunities available to him simply by having his diploma from the previous year.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Here is who I believe has been getting briefed on this case at the political level. I’m extremely familiar with how this works.

Federal (Ottawa)
Minister of Public Safety (responsible for the RCMP and the gun license registry)
Minister of Indigenous Relations
Minister of Intergovernmental Relations and Northern Affairs
Minister of National Defence (Air Force involvement)

Provincial
Attorneys-General of B.C. and Manitoba (responsible for RCMP as the provincial police force and for the province’s Crown prosecution service)
Manitoba Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs
B.C. Minister of Education

 

[Zella]

Bryer was tall, his height alone could have intimidated his mom.

Most children are a product of their environment. At the age of 2, some children swear and others say "pardon me."

The first 6 years are very important in forming behaviour. Some parents think that the first 6 years don't matter because children are small and young.

Some children are neglected with the arrival of a new parent and a new sibling. Some 14 year olds realize that they are as big as their parents and can retaliate against parents.

That's a good point about his height. He would have towered over an average-sized woman! In fact, I'm an average-sized woman, and it's not every day I run into someone who is a full head and shoulders taller than me, as he would have been. Even in the pictures of him with his dad from 3 years ago, he is noticeably taller, and his father didn't really strike me as a short man in the pictures and videos I saw of him.

That's also something that could have really intimidated his peers, too, even though he had a thin, unimposing build.

 

[Schmoosh]

I come from a large family of police officers, some still serving and some retired. My respect for them and the job they do is immense.

Myself and my LE family have had many heated debates in these past weeks about this case.

LE get criticism no matter what they do or do not do.

However, not one of my LE family are ready to definitively conclude that BS & KM are 100% guilty of these crimes, especially the murders of Lucas & Chynna.

There simply has not yet been enough information released/confimed yet?

We are all feeling pretty confident that they were involved in the death of LD and the reasons are obvious...charges have been laid...the burning truck found only 2km from the body...the burned Rav 4, now confirmed to belong to LD, that they were driving found near Gillam.

But we keep going over and over the the possible tie to the LF/CD murders, and at present we are not finding any FACTUAL info that could possibly conclude that BS & KM are the responsible parties.

I know my opinion is not the popular one on this site but please help me understand, from a factual perspective, how so many here are 100% convinced these two are guilty.

Do we know for certain they had a gun?

Do we have any confirmed info that places them near the LF/CD crime scene or even in the general vicinity?

Do we know for certain they even travelled the Alaskan Hwy #97? They may have taken the Stewart Cassiar Hwy 37 route to head to WH?

We are aware they were gamers that possibly played violent video games but does that prove they are killers?

LE has named them as "suspects" and has stated there is substantial evidence but until some of that evidence is made public, I would rather wait instead of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

I truly want to see someone held accountable for this carnage too but I would prefer that it be the RIGHT person(s) and that it be beyond any reasonable doubt.

I know BS & KM are presumed deceased so there will not be charges or a trial but based on what we, the public, know to date, would there be any chance of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt?

GUILTY requires confirmed facts and evidence, to date neither has been publically provided.

JMO JMO JMO

If there was a jury trial right now and, given what we know, would I vote guilty for any of the three murders? Heck no. I wouldn't be doing my job as a juror if I did.

 

[CanadianMade]

Good point! If he did, in fact, not graduate, he also may have felt really trapped at his job at Wal-Mart since he wouldn't have a diploma. I'm just assuming that Canada is like America, and that if you want to make decent money, you're usually expected to at least have a high school diploma. Kam would, on the surface, have had more opportunities available to him simply by having his diploma from the previous year.

You definitely do not need to have a high school diploma to make decent money here. Though it is helpful when looking for certain employment, there are numerous jobs that pay quite well who hire based on personality and work ethic alone. Construction and trades type stuff alone...many of them are desperate for workers so they are often willing to look past whether you graduated from high school or not. Not all of course, but I know many people who are making $30-$40 an hour who have never graduated from high school.

 

[otto]

I come from a large family of police officers, some still serving and some retired. My respect for them and the job they do is immense.

Myself and my LE family have had many heated debates in these past weeks about this case.

LE get criticism no matter what they do or do not do.

However, not one of my LE family are ready to definitively conclude that BS & KM are 100% guilty of these crimes, especially the murders of Lucas & Chynna.

There simply has not yet been enough information released/confimed yet?

We are all feeling pretty confident that they were involved in the death of LD and the reasons are obvious...charges have been laid...the burning truck found only 2km from the body...the burned Rav 4, now confirmed to belong to LD, that they were driving found near Gillam.

But we keep going over and over the the possible tie to the LF/CD murders, and at present we are not finding any FACTUAL info that could possibly conclude that BS & KM are the responsible parties.

I know my opinion is not the popular one on this site but please help me understand, from a factual perspective, how so many here are 100% convinced these two are guilty.

Do we know for certain they had a gun?

Do we have any confirmed info that places them near the LF/CD crime scene or even in the general vicinity?

Do we know for certain they even travelled the Alaskan Hwy #97? They may have taken the Stewart Cassiar Hwy 37 route to head to WH?

We are aware they were gamers that possibly played violent video games but does that prove they are killers?

LE has named them as "suspects" and has stated there is substantial evidence but until some of that evidence is made public, I would rather wait instead of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

I truly want to see someone held accountable for this carnage too but I would prefer that it be the RIGHT person(s) and that it be beyond any reasonable doubt.

I know BS & KM are presumed deceased so there will not be charges or a trial but based on what we, the public, know to date, would there be any chance of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt?

GUILTY requires confirmed facts and evidence, to date neither has been publically provided.

JMO JMO JMO

RCMP have said that there is evidence connecting the 3 murders. People can choose to believe it, or do doubt the statement pending proof that what they are saying is true.

 

[Schmoosh]

RCMP have said that there is evidence connecting the 3 murders. People can choose to believe it, or do doubt the statement pending proof that what they are saying is true.

But....not enough evidence to convince for the laying of charges in the LF/CD deaths, and they've been trying for weeks. I'll trust the person(s) that have to make the decision whether to lay charges for those two murders that, given the evidence that's been put in from of them, it's not enough.

 

[Gina20]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/b-c-homicide-suspects-manitoba-1.5222542

I would like to point out that Billy Beardy found a burning vehicle in northern Manitoba. That vehicle was a Rav4, for anyone following along. Keys were left on the ground in Manitoba, where the RaV4 was discovered in flames. The burnt Rav4 was towed away, eventually making its way further south in Manitoba. The keys at the scene of the torched Rav4 had apparently been left at the crime scene for quite some time...more than a week before anyone returned to collect them as evidence. And yes, arson of a stolen vehicle is a crime scene, especially if it is arson of a stolen vehicle belonging to a murder victim.

That is all for now.

 

[Zella]

You definitely do not need to have a high school diploma to make decent money here. Though it is helpful when looking for certain employment, there are numerous jobs that pay quite well who hire based on personality and work ethic alone. Construction and trades type stuff alone...many of them are desperate for workers so they are often willing to look past whether you graduated from high school or not. Not all of course, but I know many people who are making $30-$40 an hour who have never graduated from high school.

That's helpful--thank you! I wonder if BS would have had the motivation to pursue that kind of work. It's hard work!

 

[SteveP]

If there was a jury trial right now and, given what we know, would I vote guilty for any of the three murders? Heck no. I wouldn't be doing my job as a juror if I did.

If all the evidence that exists is all the evidence that we know, then there would be no jury trial. However, RCMP has stated that there is substantial evidence that connects BS and KM to all three murders, so we will just have to wait for that information to be released, hopefully sooner rather than later, before WE can make an informed decision on guilt.

 

[CanadianMade]

That's helpful--thank you! I wonder if BS would have had the motivation to pursue that kind of work. It's hard work!

There are photos of him working with his dad doing construction so he must have done it at some point. Whether or not it was something he would have wanted to continue, I will not presume to know.

 

[scrappinkat]

Bryer was tall, his height alone could have intimidated his mom.

Most children are a product of their environment. At the age of 2, some children swear and others say "pardon me."

The first 6 years are very important in forming behaviour. Some parents think that the first 6 years don't matter because children are small and young.

Some children are neglected with the arrival of a new parent and a new sibling. Some 14 year olds realize that they are as big as their parents and can retaliate against parents.

That same article also gave me the impression that her concept of parenting, love and attention was material. (It said something like she spoiled him, giving him video games etc to keep him happy).

 

[Schmoosh]

If all the evidence that exists is all the evidence that we know, then there would be no jury trial. However, RCMP has stated that there is substantial evidence that connects BS and KM to all three murders, so we will just have to wait for that information to be released, hopefully sooner rather than later, before WE can make an informed decision on guilt.

Obviously.

 

[otto]

Good point! If he did, in fact, not graduate, he also may have felt really trapped at his job at Wal-Mart since he wouldn't have a diploma. I'm just assuming that Canada is like America, and that if you want to make decent money, you're usually expected to at least have a high school diploma. Kam would, on the surface, have had more opportunities available to him simply by having his diploma from the previous year.

There has been a huge shift from education = job and university education = high paying job to skills based education and job training. Today's students do not see the absence of a diploma as barrier to a good job. In fact, universities could not care less about a diploma. What they want to see is specific core courses with good grades, high school diploma is not needed.

 

[scrappinkat]

You definitely do not need to have a high school diploma to make decent money here. Though it is helpful when looking for certain employment, there are numerous jobs that pay quite well who hire based on personality and work ethic alone. Construction and trades type stuff alone...many of them are desperate for workers so they are often willing to look past whether you graduated from high school or not. Not all of course, but I know many people who are making $30-$40 an hour who have never graduated from high school.

Richard Branson is another example.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Here is who I believe has been getting briefed on this case at the political level:

Federal (Ottawa)
Minister of Public Safety (responsible for the RCMP)
Minister of Indigenous Relations
Minister of Intergovernmental Relations and Northern Affairs
Minister of National Defence (Air Force involvement)

Provincial
Attorneys-General of B.C. and Manitoba (responsible for RCMP as the provincial police force and for the province’s Crown prosecution service)
Manitoba Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs
B.C. Minister of Education

Don’t think the Ministry of Education would be given any info. If parents aren’t getting info either would M of E.

ETA. Teachers are there to teach....They are not social workers or psychologists. Unless a student is deemed violent, has threatened violence or is seen as a threat to the school or students, teachers/principals cannot make students attend counselling. The suggestion can be made but cannot be enforced save for extenuating circumstances as previously mentioned.