Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Zella]

Based on what @CanadianMade is saying about the economy in PA, it does seem like BS's and KM's best options were probably to leave and find work elsewhere. Even if their efforts to find work up north were not going to pan out, it's a shame that they didn't just find somewhere else to move to for work. They would have had each other (I do think they had a genuinely close friendship), and nobody needed to end up dead.

 

[ldlager]

Military knife is another guess.

But clearly NOT keys....

 

[Schmoosh]

Yes, he was out of Bryer's life for several years. I think he must have re-entered it about the time that Bryer briefly lived with him 3 years ago and then remained in contact with him since Bryer then moved in with his grandma. (I get impression grandma is mom's mom.)

LOL I work from home part-time and just have gotten nothing constructive done for weeks because of this case.

Thank you, that's the way I remember it as well.

I think this weekend would be shot, productivity-wise, if they'd said yesterday "the report is coming out any minute now!" I feel like I have a reprieve to actually get real life done

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yes, he was out of Bryer's life for several years. I think he must have re-entered it about the time that Bryer briefly lived with him 3 years ago and then remained in contact with him since Bryer then moved in with his grandma. (I get impression grandma is mom's mom.)

LOL I work from home part-time and just have gotten nothing constructive done for weeks because of this case.

Yeah they weren't in contact, or barely in contact, from age 8 to 16. Then Bryer lived with him for a summer when he was 16, in Victoria I assume but I'm not sure. Then I think after that his dad lost his housing and Bryer moved in with his grandma. I'm unclear on whether his grandma was on his dad or mom's side.

Same on the work situation (I'm actually trying to do work right now LOL...good luck)...as for housework, we are minimalists so I can clean my whole apartment in like two hours.

 

[Arizona 123]

I come from a large family of police officers, some still serving and some retired. My respect for them and the job they do is immense.

Myself and my LE family have had many heated debates in these past weeks about this case.

LE get criticism no matter what they do or do not do.

However, not one of my LE family are ready to definitively conclude that BS & KM are 100% guilty of these crimes, especially the murders of Lucas & Chynna.

There simply has not yet been enough information released/confimed yet?

We are all feeling pretty confident that they were involved in the death of LD and the reasons are obvious...charges have been laid...the burning truck found only 2km from the body...the burned Rav 4, now confirmed to belong to LD, that they were driving found near Gillam.

But we keep going over and over the the possible tie to the LF/CD murders, and at present we are not finding any FACTUAL info that could possibly conclude that BS & KM are the responsible parties.

I know my opinion is not the popular one on this site but please help me understand, from a factual perspective, how so many here are 100% convinced these two are guilty.

Do we know for certain they had a gun?

Do we have any confirmed info that places them near the LF/CD crime scene or even in the general vicinity?

Do we know for certain they even travelled the Alaskan Hwy #97? They may have taken the Stewart Cassiar Hwy 37 route to head to WH?

We are aware they were gamers that possibly played violent video games but does that prove they are killers?

LE has named them as "suspects" and has stated there is substantial evidence but until some of that evidence is made public, I would rather wait instead of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

I truly want to see someone held accountable for this carnage too but I would prefer that it be the RIGHT person(s) and that it be beyond any reasonable doubt.

I know BS & KM are presumed deceased so there will not be charges or a trial but based on what we, the public, know to date, would there be any chance of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt?

GUILTY requires confirmed facts and evidence, to date neither has been publically provided.

JMO JMO JMO

Well said.

Personally, I've seen no indications other that LE listing B&S as suspects in the murder of the couple. I *assume* RCMP had good reasons, but I've seen no indications to confirm this assumption, yet. The closest I can come is geography; the paucity of roads in the area effectively diminishes the significance of the distance between the murder sites, IMHO, but it's still a tenuous connection.

IMHO, it looks like RCMP want to make certain that K&S are guilty of all the murders. This is needful IMHO, because otherwise there is a killer or killers on the loose.

I can well understand why RCMP would be keeping some things confidential at this stage (with an investigation underway).

My own personal take on the video games aspect is that it's probably as significant an indicator of homicidal tendencies as their apparent fondness for poutine. (Hrmmm... though maybe I shouldn't dismiss the latter out of hand...) but, I don't know enough on the video game aspect to think that my opinion on it is viable in any way (hence I haven't posted on that aspect before - even I think I know nothing on it!).

One concern I do have, and why I think the toxicology report on the suspects needs to be released when the investigation is over, is were the suspects (if guilty) on either illegal drugs of psyche meds? I think this, especially the latter, is needful to know if true, because there have been concerns raised for years that oft-perscribed medications for minor psych issues like hyperactivity can have a rare side effect of violent psychosis. Whether that is true or not is something that, for reasons of public safety, should be determined (and thus the report, if it does indicate use of such meds, at least be made available to legitimate researchers).

What troubles me most about this case is how little of it makes sense. Why burn the truck so close to someone they just killed? Why volunteer their real names when on the run in a victim's car? Such things make me wonder if the theory of the case is wrong. On the other hand, killers are very often irrational and unpredictable.

I have tried to come up with alternate theories, including ones where the suspects are innocent. I do not consider fleeing the police as proof of guilt (it might be a case of fear, including fear of wrongful conviction) but I have yet to be able to come up with an innocent explanation for them having the professor's car, with his body found so close to their truck.

I wholeheartedly agree on needing to be sure. Also, having a bit of doubt is helpful to keeping an open mind. Leaping to a conclusion is never an optimum solution.

 

[Schmoosh]

Yeah they weren't in contact, or barely in contact, from age 8 to 16. Then Bryer lived with him for a summer when he was 16, in Victoria I assume but I'm not sure. Then I think after that his dad lost his housing and Bryer moved in with his grandma. I'm unclear on whether his grandma was on his dad or mom's side.

Same on the work situation (I'm actually trying to do work right now LOL...good luck)...as for housework, we are minimalists so I can clean my whole apartment in like two hours.

Thank you for the clarification; it's coming back to me now.

Good luck with the work! I'll try to not entice you into answering any more questions!

 

[otto]

That's right! In fact, I assume if his father was still working in construction, that would have been an option for him. I suppose since he choose to instead work at Wal-Mart, he wasn't interested in doing it again. Or since he and Kam were so glued together, maybe he wouldn't have minded, but Kam was like, "Nope, I'm not doing construction with your dad."

That's interesting to me. As far as I know in the United States, if you want to enroll in a university, you need a high school diploma or an equivalency.

University admission is based on scores in core courses such as chemistry, biology, english, math, advanced math, physics, social studies. High school diploma requires the completion of a specific number of high school course credits. The diploma is about finishing something, the core course scores are for starting university.

Doesn't USA university admission depend on SAT scores? Two of my children attended and graduated from an international american high school. SAT scores were the thing that mattered to the high school.

 

[Mountain Misst]

"NSW Police assistant commissioner Mark Jones told reporters in Sydney on Saturday that two homicide detectives would act in a liaison-type role"

NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

Thanks FF. I acknowledge the postscript by the Guardian in this follow-up article. Cheers, mate.

MOO: How many times do we see MSM chasing headlines to get reactive conversations happening as they compete for the advertising dollar. Sub-editing 'goes out the window, and 'clicks' rule the day...

 

[NJSleuth91]

Based on what @CanadianMade is saying about the economy in PA, it does seem like BS's and KM's best options were probably to leave and find work elsewhere. Even if their efforts to find work up north were not going to pan out, it's a shame that they didn't just find somewhere else to move to for work. They would have had each other (I do think they had a genuinely close friendship), and nobody needed to end up dead.

I think that's why I'm so hung up on this case. I just have this feeling that this whole thing was really close to never happening. Like if just one or two factors changed, it never would have happened, and everyone would have been ok. I don't know if I'm right about that or not, but I've felt it really strongly the whole time. It's like that show Seconds From Disaster.

 

[Zella]

University admission is based on scores in core courses such as chemistry, biology, english, math, advanced math, physics, social studies. High school diploma requires the completion of a specific number of high school course credits. The diploma is about finishing something, the core course scores are for starting university.

Doesn't USA university admission depend on SAT scores? Two of my children attended an american high school. SAT scores were the thing that mattered to the high school.

Yes, universities here usually require SAT or ACT scores (SAT tends to be more of an East Coast/West Coast thing, in my experience--ACT is much more popular where I am), but it is in addition to having a diploma or an equivalency (GED).

 

[CanadianMade]

Thank you. I wasn't aware that there weren't many construction jobs there. I have a lot of relatives who work in construction here (U.S.), and it seems to be pretty common to meet and carpool to sites. I didn't know if that was a regional thing or not. But I suppose even if that were an option for him, if the actual construction business hiring him wasn't nearby, he'd still run into issues with getting to wherever the meeting site was.

A lot of construction jobs here require the drivers license actually. High school diploma...nope, but a drivers license is becoming more and more of something they consider to be required. I assume many of them have had a bunch of no-show employees and don't want to deal with it anymore. In some of the larger cities is might be easier because of the public transit, but even then. I'm in a city and all the the job openings I see all request a drivers license just because the sites they work at change so often.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

A lot of construction jobs here require the drivers license actually. High school diploma...nope, but a drivers license is becoming more and more of something they consider to be required. I assume many of them have had a bunch of no-show employees and don't want to deal with it anymore. In some of the larger cities is might be easier because of the public transit, but even then. I'm in a city and all the the job openings I see all request a drivers license just because the sites they work at change so often.

Maybe I’m out of touch, but I’m really surprised that an 18 year old in Port Alberni wouldn’t have a driver’s license in the first place. Without one, you can pretty much forget about getting around Vancouver Island. On my 16th birthday, priority #1 was a visit to Motor Vehicles to get a learner’s permit

 

[Zella]

A lot of construction jobs here require the drivers license actually. High school diploma...nope, but a drivers license is becoming more and more of something they consider to be required. I assume many of them have had a bunch of no-show employees and don't want to deal with it anymore. In some of the larger cities is might be easier because of the public transit, but even then. I'm in a city and all the the job openings I see all request a drivers license just because the sites they work at change so often.

I can see where that would be an issue.

Thank you for all this info, by the way. I never thought I'd learn so much about the Canadian construction industry from this case, but it really is interesting and helpful to know!

I'm wondering now why BS didn't have a DL. Was he afraid to drive? Did he want to learn but nobody just took the time/have the time to teach him? Is this something he ordinarily would have learned in school?

 

[Mountain Misst]

This makes sense, but why would they set their truck on fire?

IMO they burned the RV as they had another means of transport (the boat). That's what they did with LD murder - took his vehicle and burned their own. Neither vehicle was owned by them personally - they showed no respect for other people's property.
What made me curious was when they repeated the act with the RV burn - MOO - could it be that these acts of arson were an attempt to confuse any scent dogs being able to get a start point and track their trail. If that is the case, then it certainly worked.

 

[otto]

I choose to wait for PROOF
I find it difficult to understand why so many here at WS are not interested in that proof and are so ready to label them guilty?
Is WS not about facts and confirmed evidence.
I guess I must have missed something, but I will still wait for proof.
Just not ready to jump on the guilty bandwagon yet.

I think it's more about trusting the RCMP when they make an official statement that they have substantial evidence that the murders are connected. The proof will come.

 

[Seattle1]

His dad lived 2.5 hours away in Victoria and is homeless. I think that is probably more the reason why he didn't go back to it. The impression I got is that he moved in with his grandma at age 16 because his dad lost his housing and never found stable housing after that.

In my area there are people with bachelor's degrees working at Walmart....

News from the "60 Minutes" reporter is that AS lives in his van, and would travel twice monthly to Port Alberni, get a hotel, and visit his son.

I believe all of BS's friends including KM lived in PA, and he had a good thing going living with his grandmother. Hours and hours of game play on his expensive computer from dad-- compared to helping his dad build homes.

At this point, I don't consider anything reported about/from AS reliable. More than enough tragedy to pass around...

MOO

 

[Gina20]

Do we know for certain they even travelled the Alaskan Hwy #97? They may have taken the Stewart Cassiar Hwy 37 route to head to WH?

No, we don't know from the RCMP which routes KM and BS took. Here's why basic information like the routes the victims took is very important. This is from LD's cousin, not the RCMP.

The trip to the Dease Lake area wasn’t part of original Dyck’s plans, Friesen said, adding he was only supposed to travel between Terrace and Stewart.

Family of B.C. murder victim remembers Leonard Dyck as ‘gentle soul,’ family man

The RCMP have stated that the victims were random, not targeted. Is LD's death considered random because he made a random decision to change his route?

It would be extremely random if LF and CD hadn't even travelled on the same highways as BS and KM. This would indicate that someone else is responsible for their murders.

It could be considered targeted if the victims and suspects travelled the same highways at the same times, if somewhere along the line the suspects formed a plan to follow and kill the victims.

We know that both LD and the suspects were on Highway 37. We don't know if CD and LF were ever on the same highway as the suspects.

I have attempted to explain why this is important previously. If the suspects themselves cannot be placed at the scene of the crime near Liard Hot Springs, and not just a random discarded item belonging to them, how can they be responsible for the murders?

The routes are very much a part of this investigation, I am sure, because this is very important information. If it was impossible for LF and CD to be in the same place as the suspects at the time of the murders, as proven by highway cams, security cams, etc., then the person or persons who killed them remain at large. This is my concern. Until there is proof, we don't know.

 

[Zella]

Maybe I’m out of touch, but I’m really surprised that an 18 year old in Port Alberni wouldn’t have a driver’s license in the first place. Without one, you can pretty much forget about getting around Vancouver Island. On my 16th birthday, priority #1 was a visit to Motor Vehicles to get a learner’s permit

It kind of surprised me, too, but then again, I live in an area that is too far to walk to town and has limited public transportation options, and cycling on these roads is dangerous, so most people have a DL. I know the general rate of people who have DLs is apparently going down, but it's always something I associate more with areas with decent public transportation options.

 

[Schmoosh]

Well said.

Personally, I've seen no indications other that LE listing B&S as suspects in the murder of the couple. I *assume* RCMP had good reasons, but I've seen no indications to confirm this assumption, yet. The closest I can come is geography; the paucity of roads in the area effectively diminishes the significance of the distance between the murder sites, IMHO, but it's still a tenuous connection.

IMHO, it looks like RCMP want to make certain that K&S are guilty of all the murders. This is needful IMHO, because otherwise there is a killer or killers on the loose.

I can well understand why RCMP would be keeping some things confidential at this stage (with an investigation underway).

My own personal take on the video games aspect is that it's probably as significant an indicator of homicidal tendencies as their apparent fondness for poutine. (Hrmmm... though maybe I shouldn't dismiss the latter out of hand...) but, I don't know enough on the video game aspect to think that my opinion on it is viable in any way (hence I haven't posted on that aspect before - even I think I know nothing on it!).

One concern I do have, and why I think the toxicology report on the suspects needs to be released when the investigation is over, is were the suspects (if guilty) on either illegal drugs of psyche meds? I think this, especially the latter, is needful to know if true, because there have been concerns raised for years that oft-perscribed medications for minor psych issues like hyperactivity can have a rare side effect of violent psychosis. Whether that is true or not is something that, for reasons of public safety, should be determined (and thus the report, if it does indicate use of such meds, at least be made available to legitimate researchers).

What troubles me most about this case is how little of it makes sense. Why burn the truck so close to someone they just killed? Why volunteer their real names when on the run in a victim's car? Such things make me wonder if the theory of the case is wrong. On the other hand, killers are very often irrational and unpredictable.

I have tried to come up with alternate theories, including ones where the suspects are innocent. I do not consider fleeing the police as proof of guilt (it might be a case of fear, including fear of wrongful conviction) but I have yet to be able to come up with an innocent explanation for them having the professor's car, with his body found so close to their truck.

I wholeheartedly agree on needing to be sure. Also, having a bit of doubt is helpful to keeping an open mind. Leaping to a conclusion is never an optimum solution.

Here's one:

• They decided Whitehorse wasn't their cup of tea, for whatever reason
• They started heading back towards home (fact)
• They camped in the Dease Lake area and thought "we just prepared to move away from our parents. Do we really want to just go back home?" They chat about where else to go
• Whoever was cooking in the camper was sloppy and accidentally set it on fire
• With no vehicle, they start hitchhiking
• Perp who really killed Dyck and stole his vehicle sees them hitchiking/or sees their camper on fire, and gives them a ride (they don't know he's a killer)
• Perp sells Dyck's vehicle to them, cheap, after getting to where he needs to go
• They carry on their merry way to where they had planned during the pre-fire chat

OK people, now tear this apart! LOL

 

[Zella]

News from the "60 Minutes" reporter is that AS lives in his van, and would travel twice monthly to Port Alberni, get a hotel, and visit his son.

I believe all of BS's friends including KM lived in PA, and he had a good thing going living with his grandmother. Hours and hours of game play on his expensive computer from dad-- compared to helping his dad build homes.

At this point, I don't consider anything reported about/from AS reliable. More than enough tragedy to pass around...

MOO

I've actually wondered if the reason he didn't stay long with his dad is he wanted to return to PA to be close to KM. That friendship really does seem to be the one constant and strongest bond in his life. Living with his mom was apparently no longer an option, but grandma's house seemed to work out okay since he stayed there the past couple of years without any apparent issues.