Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[CanadianMade]

I don’t have the sense that these two had the kinds of connections that could open doors in the north.

Well if we are going to consider the fact that they were gamers as some sort of indication into their lives, we should also consider that they could have connections anywhere really. Could have known someone in Whitehorse that said they could find them work.

 

[CanadianMade]

Maybe I’m out of touch, but I’m really surprised that an 18 year old in Port Alberni wouldn’t have a driver’s license in the first place. Without one, you can pretty much forget about getting around Vancouver Island. On my 16th birthday, priority #1 was a visit to Motor Vehicles to get a learner’s permit

I am 34 and I do not have a drivers license.....Never have. Never will.

ETA: I also live on Vancouver Island and seem to get around with no issues

 

[otto]

I think that's why I'm so hung up on this case. I just have this feeling that this whole thing was really close to never happening. Like if just one or two factors changed, it never would have happened, and everyone would have been ok. I don't know if I'm right about that or not, but I've felt it really strongly the whole time. It's like that show Seconds From Disaster.

The really big question is what happened when the suspects met the tourists. Why did Kam and Bryer stop at the van? What was their thinking? Were they initially planning to steal from what they assumed was an abandoned vehicle? How did things escalate to murder?

What would a 23 and 24 year old think about an 18 and 19 year old, and did they realize that their lives were in danger at the time that the teens stopped at the van?

We'll never know the answer, but that was the turning point in the entire manhunt.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

It kind of surprised me, too, but then again, I live in an area that is too far to walk to town and has limited public transportation options, and cycling on these roads is dangerous, so most people have a DL. I know the general rate of people who have DLs is apparently going down, but it's always something I associate more with areas with decent public transportation options.

Yes, I run into lots of people in New York who don’t have driver’s licenses, but on Vancouver Island I would think that the average 16 year old sees it as a major priority.

It does require the help of a licensed driver and/or money for lessons, which may have been an issue here, but there’s his great uncle, and at some point presumably McLeod was experienced/old enough to be the licensed driver.

 

[Optics]

You definitely do not need to have a high school diploma to make decent money here. Though it is helpful when looking for certain employment, there are numerous jobs that pay quite well who hire based on personality and work ethic alone. Construction and trades type stuff alone...many of them are desperate for workers so they are often willing to look past whether you graduated from high school or not. Not all of course, but I know many people who are making $30-$40 an hour who have never graduated from high school.

Yes, and all that aside let's not forget Kam's father has a highly successful and lucrative business in which no doubt Kam could have easily worked with a great wage.

 

[musicaljoke]

However, not one of my LE family are ready to definitively conclude that BS & KM are 100% guilty of these crimes, especially the murders of Lucas & Chynna.

There simply has not yet been enough information released/confimed yet?

We are all feeling pretty confident that they were involved in the death of LD and the reasons are obvious...charges have been laid...the burning truck found only 2km from the body...the burned Rav 4, now confirmed to belong to LD, that they were driving found near Gillam.

But we keep going over and over the the possible tie to the LF/CD murders, and at present we are not finding any FACTUAL info that could possibly conclude that BS & KM are the responsible parties.

I know my opinion is not the popular one on this site but please help me understand, from a factual perspective, how so many here are 100% convinced these two are guilty.

Do we know for certain they had a gun?

Do we have any confirmed info that places them near the LF/CD crime scene or even in the general vicinity?

Do we know for certain they even travelled the Alaskan Hwy #97? They may have taken the Stewart Cassiar Hwy 37 route to head to WH?

We are aware they were gamers that possibly played violent video games but does that prove they are killers?

LE has named them as "suspects" and has stated there is substantial evidence but until some of that evidence is made public, I would rather wait instead of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

I truly want to see someone held accountable for this carnage too but I would prefer that it be the RIGHT person(s) and that it be beyond any reasonable doubt.

I know BS & KM are presumed deceased so there will not be charges or a trial but based on what we, the public, know to date, would there be any chance of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt?

GUILTY requires confirmed facts and evidence, to date neither has been publically provided.

JMO JMO JMO

Your conclusion makes me confident that our justice system is working as it should. Had these two suspects been tried in court, the jury would hear the evidence first hand. They wouldn't walk into the court with preconceived notions.

 

[otto]

No, we don't know from the RCMP which routes KM and BS took. Here's why basic information like the routes the victims took is very important. This is from LD's cousin, not the RCMP.

The trip to the Dease Lake area wasn’t part of original Dyck’s plans, Friesen said, adding he was only supposed to travel between Terrace and Stewart.

Family of B.C. murder victim remembers Leonard Dyck as ‘gentle soul,’ family man

The RCMP have stated that the victims were random, not targeted. Is LD's death considered random because he made a random decision to change his route?

It would be extremely random if LF and CD hadn't even travelled on the same highways as BS and KM. This would indicate that someone else is responsible for their murders.

It could be considered targeted if the victims and suspects travelled the same highways at the same times, if somewhere along the line the suspects formed a plan to follow and kill the victims.

We know that both LD and the suspects were on Highway 37. We don't know if CD and LF were ever on the same highway as the suspects.

I have attempted to explain why this is important previously. If the suspects themselves cannot be placed at the scene of the crime near Liard Hot Springs, and not just a random discarded item belonging to them, how can they be responsible for the murders?

The routes are very much a part of this investigation, I am sure, because this is very important information. If it was impossible for LF and CD to be in the same place as the suspects at the time of the murders, as proven by highway cams, security cams, etc., then the person or persons who killed them remain at large. This is my concern. Until there is proof, we don't know.

Mistywaters published a map of webcams along the highways. RCMP know whether they camper truck was on the highways and when it was there.

 

[Zella]

Yes, and all that aside let's not forget Kam's father has a highly successful and lucrative business in which no doubt Kam could have easily worked with a great wage.

Remind me again, what did Kam's dad do for a living? I remember reading that he owned a business but can't remember what it was.

 

[copkid]

Here's one:

• They decided Whitehorse wasn't their cup of tea, for whatever reason
• They started heading back towards home (fact)
• They camped in the Dease Lake area and thought "we just prepared to move away from our parents. Do we really want to just go back home?" They chat about where else to go
• Whoever was cooking in the camper was sloppy and accidentally set it on fire
• With no vehicle, they start hitchhiking
• Perp who really killed Dyck and stole his vehicle sees them hitchiking/or sees their camper on fire, and gives them a ride (they don't know he's a killer)
• Perp sells Dyck's vehicle to them, cheap, after getting to where he needs to go
• They carry on their merry way to where they had planned during the pre-fire chat

OK people, now tear this apart! LOL

Not going to tear this apart, because the fact is any of what you wrote could be correct.

I have very much wondered if the truck fire was an accident due to cooking, or improper use of propane?

I do think is is possible they were not yet ready to end their first life journey.

I do think they may have accidently killed LD when attempting to steal his Rav4. LD may have been away from his vehicle collecting samples and returned to find them driving away. LD may have tried to stop them and was run over or dragged in the process. From there, just two scared kids running as fast as they can, maybe they planned to call their parents but they foolishly ended up in the backwoods of Gillam with no cell service and no chance to ever explain how things went so wrong.

JMO

 

[Gina20]

My point is that it's been weeks since the two murders, and Dyck was murdered after that and they were charged for his murder. Maybe someone here can tell me how much priority forensics on a double-murder would take. It's been almost a month now and no charges.

That is the thing: the lack of sufficient evidence to meet the legal threshold for charges, qualified with "yet". Knowing that the Public Safety Minister found this case urgent enough to call on the military for assistance in the search, I doubt that the materials are languishing in someone's bottom drawer while they're on vacation.

This is not just any double murder. This is a triple murder involving a #canadamanhunt.

 

[copkid]

Mistywaters published a map of webcams along the highways. RCMP know whether they camper truck was on the highways and when it was there.

Time will tell, but as it stands, we the public, do not know which route BS/KM took.

 

[Arizona 123]

Here's one:

• They decided Whitehorse wasn't their cup of tea, for whatever reason
• They started heading back towards home (fact)
• They camped in the Dease Lake area and thought "we just prepared to move away from our parents. Do we really want to just go back home?" They chat about where else to go
• Whoever was cooking in the camper was sloppy and accidentally set it on fire
• With no vehicle, they start hitchhiking
• Perp who really killed Dyck and stole his vehicle sees them hitchiking/or sees their camper on fire, and gives them a ride (they don't know he's a killer)
• Perp sells Dyck's vehicle to them, cheap, after getting to where he needs to go
• They carry on their merry way to where they had planned during the pre-fire chat

OK people, now tear this apart! LOL

I consider this scenario unlikely, but that's not the same as implausible.

My main issue is they burned the RAV4 before being named as suspects.

 

[Zella]

Mistywaters published a map of webcams along the highways. RCMP know whether they camper truck was on the highways and when it was there.

Otto, is this the map you're talking about? It definitely looks like the truck would have been spotted in a few different areas while they were driving around up there, depending on the routes they took.

DriveBC - Map View

 

[Zella]

Bryer quit school in Grade 10 at first, that is when I assume he went to live with his dad for a period of 2 months. Then he returned to Port Alberni to his grandmothers, and I would guess the Alternative Program options was worked out for him so he could complete his high school at least to Grade 12 graduations. Being in an AP Bryer would have been assessed for the need to go that route. What interests me is that Kam also ended up in the Alternative Program - that tells me something was not working in the normal class setting for Kam either.

Thank you for that info! And yes that is a good point about Kam. I've never seen any description for why he ended up there, but it has also piqued my curiosity.

Edited to add: I wonder if returning to school in some form was a condition for staying with grandma.

 

[sprucetip]

Don't get so defensive, my comment isn't directly toward you specifically. I'm Canadian too, I've never said there isn't room for improvement - I also have a good number of relatives & very close friends who are and have been in LE - having also been directly involved in numerous high profile murder cases in Canada. For me personally - if I was in a dark alley with a cold blooded killer or a police officer - I would want the PO without question to protect me.

Not defensive at all, lol. Merely explaining my POV. You were saying that we shouldn’t be asking questions until this is all over which I disagree with.

As for the part I bolded in your comment, pretty sure most people would want that.

 

[Gina20]

Bryer quit school in Grade 10 at first, that is when I assume he went to live with his dad for a period of 2 months. Then he returned to Port Alberni to his grandmothers, and I would guess the Alternative Program options was worked out for him so he could complete his high school at least to Grade 12 graduations. Being in an AP Bryer would have been assessed for the need to go that route. What interests me is that Kam also ended up in the Alternative Program - that tells me something was not working in the normal class setting for Kam either.

Careful with AP, which means Advanced Placement elsewhere, and quite another thing.

 

[Optics]

Remind me again, what did Kam's dad do for a living? I remember reading that he owned a business but can't remember what it was.

It is a tugboat log and barge towing company on the waters - I think they travel a long distance along the coast on boats probably even as far as Prince Rupert north and to Vancouver/Victoria in the south. Timberrose Tug & Barge.

 

[Zella]

It is a tugboat log and barge towing company on the waters - I think they travel a long distance along the coast on boats probably even as far as Prince Rupert north and to Vancouver/Victoria in the south. Timberrose Tug & Barge.

Thank you! Yes, it seems reasonable to assume that if he had wanted to work with his dad--or if BS had wanted to work with him--that would have been an option.

Edited to add: Does make me wonder if, based on his dad's line of work, if Kam had any experience with boathandling. Might not have interested him at all, but it's reasonable to assume.

 

[Optics]

Careful with AP, which means Advanced Placement elsewhere, and quite another thing.

I think its goes without saying because I've mentioned Alternative Program twice in my comment that is what the acronym refers to, and yes I know the difference between an Alternative Program and an Advanced Placement program in the BC school system, I worked in mgmt as well was a trustee/board chair for 10 additional years.

 

[copkid]

That is the thing: the lack of sufficient evidence to meet the legal threshold for charges, qualified with "yet". Knowing that the Public Safety Minister found this case urgent enough to call on the military for assistance in the search, I doubt that the materials are languishing in someone's bottom drawer while they're on vacation.

This is not just any double murder. This is a triple murder involving a #canadamanhunt.

One would think it would be top priority , yet close to a month now and still no charges or any proof whatsoever has been given.

Question: if proof does not come would it be possible for the families of KM/BS to launch a lawsuit?