Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Zella]

There are photos of him working with his dad doing construction so he must have done it at some point. Whether or not it was something he would have wanted to continue, I will not presume to know.

That's right! In fact, I assume if his father was still working in construction, that would have been an option for him. I suppose since he choose to instead work at Wal-Mart, he wasn't interested in doing it again. Or since he and Kam were so glued together, maybe he wouldn't have minded, but Kam was like, "Nope, I'm not doing construction with your dad."

There has been a huge shift from education = job and university education = high paying job to skills based education and job training. Today's students do not see the absence of a diploma as barrier to a good job. In fact, universities could not care less about a diploma. What they want to see is specific core courses with good grades, high school diploma is not needed.

That's interesting to me. As far as I know in the United States, if you want to enroll in a university, you need a high school diploma or an equivalency.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Exactly. And what that might look like in practice is hours and hours spent with a psychologist, which starts at around $120/hr. That's simply not affordable for many families.

If the school can identify an issue, and offer counselling or a referral, then there are not a lot of parents who would say no. So the challenge is in identifying at risk individuals, and seeing to it that they get the treatment they need. There may well be lessons that can be learned from this case.

With the way Bryer's father said, "I'm sorry all of this had to happen," I suspect he knew there was risk and had no way of addressing it.

Finding ANY therapist with availability is a difficult task...finding one who is actually effective for the patient's specific problems is wayyyyy harder, and it gets harder the worse the problems are.

I suspected that too, and given the circumstances Bryer's dad has, I think that the system has failed him too and he didn't have the resources to stop it from failing his son.

there are numerous jobs that pay quite well who hire based on personality and work ethic alone.

If they're hiring based on personality I think he wouldn't be the person they hired, based on accounts....

That's helpful--thank you! I wonder if BS would have had the motivation to pursue that kind of work. It's hard work!

Well, he did work construction with his dad at one point (there are pictures of the two of them working together). I don't know if it would be working at Walmart specifically that made him feel frustrated (I also wonder if the two of them only worked at Walmart to steal supplies for their trip) but more in general it's considered to be an expected thing to graduate high school and dropping out of high school is considered to be a failure by society.

 

[JuneBug67]

But....not enough evidence to convince for the laying of charges in the LF/CD deaths, and they've been trying for weeks. I'll trust the person(s) that have to make the decision whether to lay charges for those two murders that, given the evidence that's been put in from of them, it's not enough.

They didn’t say they lacked evidence, they said the nature of some of the evidence they had took time to formalize. Forensic etc. It was a short waiting game that was still playing out, they anticipated the charges would come at the end of it, and now it’s all moot.

 

[Zella]

If they're hiring based on personality I think he wouldn't be the person they hired, based on accounts....
.

LOL Yeah, BS might have needed some work on that front to be hired on personality alone, though it does seem like, as a general rule, BS was better behaved around adults than his peers. But it does generally sound like KM might have been able to charm people better and would have been more likely to score something that way.

 

[NJSleuth91]

That's right! In fact, I assume if his father was still working in construction, that would have been an option for him. I suppose since he choose to instead work at Wal-Mart, he wasn't interested in doing it again. Or since he and Kam were so glued together, maybe he wouldn't have minded, but Kam was like, "Nope, I'm not doing construction with your dad."


That's interesting to me. As far as I know in the United States, if you want to enroll in a university, you need a high school diploma or an equivalency.

His dad lived 2.5 hours away in Victoria and is homeless. I think that is probably more the reason why he didn't go back to it. The impression I got is that he moved in with his grandma at age 16 because his dad lost his housing and never found stable housing after that.

In my area there are people with bachelor's degrees working at Walmart....

 

[dameagatha]

I come from a large family of police officers, some still serving and some retired. My respect for them and the job they do is immense.

Myself and my LE family have had many heated debates in these past weeks about this case.

LE get criticism no matter what they do or do not do.

However, not one of my LE family are ready to definitively conclude that BS & KM are 100% guilty of these crimes, especially the murders of Lucas & Chynna.

There simply has not yet been enough information released/confimed yet?

We are all feeling pretty confident that they were involved in the death of LD and the reasons are obvious...charges have been laid...the burning truck found only 2km from the body...the burned Rav 4, now confirmed to belong to LD, that they were driving found near Gillam.

But we keep going over and over the the possible tie to the LF/CD murders, and at present we are not finding any FACTUAL info that could possibly conclude that BS & KM are the responsible parties.

I know my opinion is not the popular one on this site but please help me understand, from a factual perspective, how so many here are 100% convinced these two are guilty.

Do we know for certain they had a gun?

Do we have any confirmed info that places them near the LF/CD crime scene or even in the general vicinity?

Do we know for certain they even travelled the Alaskan Hwy #97? They may have taken the Stewart Cassiar Hwy 37 route to head to WH?

We are aware they were gamers that possibly played violent video games but does that prove they are killers?

LE has named them as "suspects" and has stated there is substantial evidence but until some of that evidence is made public, I would rather wait instead of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

I truly want to see someone held accountable for this carnage too but I would prefer that it be the RIGHT person(s) and that it be beyond any reasonable doubt.

I know BS & KM are presumed deceased so there will not be charges or a trial but based on what we, the public, know to date, would there be any chance of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt?

GUILTY requires confirmed facts and evidence, to date neither has been publically provided.

JMO JMO JMO

The factual evidence is overwhelming but it is not direct evidence. The fact is the investigators moved tremendous amounts of weapons, personnel, & equipment to Gillam, Manitoba. There was nothing comparable in B.C. If the teen suspects were considered that dangerous for the death of Prof Dyck, wouldn’t you expect to see twice that size response for the double murders of Lucas & Chynna? Yet everything went to Gillam, where the police have — repeatedly stated — direct evidence that has not been made public.

 

[Zella]

His dad lived 2.5 hours away in Victoria and is homeless. I think that is probably more the reason why he didn't go back to it. The impression I got is that he moved in with his grandma at age 16 because his dad lost his housing and never found stable housing after that.
.

I had forgotten about his housing situation. And based on the distance between Victoria and Port Alberni, it's not like BS could have still lived with grandma and commuted to wherever his dad was working, if, indeed, his father is still working.

Edited to add: It does seem, though, if he enjoyed the construction work he did with his dad, it is something he could have applied for around PA since he had some experience. He likely would have made more money than he did at WM. Makes me suspect it was undesirable to him, either because he didn't like the work or he specifically wanted to work with Kam.

 

[JuneBug67]

That's interesting to me. As far as I know in the United States, if you want to enroll in a university, you need a high school diploma or an equivalency.

RSBM

In Ontario you need a diploma if you’re 18 or under. 19 or older you can apply as an adult without one, but if it’s a competitive program you’re potentially at a disadvantage.

 

[CanadianMade]

If they're hiring based on personality I think he wouldn't be the person they hired, based on accounts....

Well...based on rumors really.

 

[Zella]

RSBM

In Ontario you need a diploma if you’re 18 or under. 19 or older you can apply as an adult without one, but if it’s a competitive program you’re potentially at a disadvantage.

That's very interesting--thank you!

 

[ldlager]

Oh, I see what you are saying. Yes, keys should not be discarded. I believe the lovely officer (who gave us the massive hint) addressed this when he said that the frontline RCMP officers didn't linger to process the scene because of the potential danger to themselves.

I’m glad firefighters don’t feel the same

 

[Schmoosh]

They didn’t say they lacked evidence, they said the nature of some of the evidence they had took time to formalize. Forensic etc. It was a short waiting game that was still playing out, they anticipated the charges would come at the end of it, and now it’s all moot.

My point is that it's been weeks since the two murders, and Dyck was murdered after that and they were charged for his murder. Maybe someone here can tell me how much priority forensics on a double-murder would take. It's been almost a month now and no charges.

 

[CanadianMade]

I had forgotten about his housing situation. And based on the distance between Victoria and Port Alberni, it's not like BS could have still lived with grandma and commuted to wherever his dad was working, if, indeed, his father is still working.

Edited to add: It does seem, though, if he enjoyed the construction work he did with his dad, it is something he could have applied for around PA since he had some experience. He likely would have made more money than he did at WM. Makes me suspect it was undesirable to him, either because he didn't like the work or he specifically wanted to work with Kam.

There would be few construction jobs in that area and without a drivers license doubtfully an option for him.

 

[Schmoosh]

They didn’t say they lacked evidence, they said the nature of some of the evidence they had took time to formalize. Forensic etc. It was a short waiting game that was still playing out, they anticipated the charges would come at the end of it, and now it’s all moot.

And I didn't say the RCMP lacked evidence; I'm saying whoever decides whether to lay the charges hasn't, and it's been almost a month.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

You definitely do not need to have a high school diploma to make decent money here. Though it is helpful when looking for certain employment, there are numerous jobs that pay quite well who hire based on personality and work ethic alone. Construction and trades type stuff alone...many of them are desperate for workers so they are often willing to look past whether you graduated from high school or not. Not all of course, but I know many people who are making $30-$40 an hour who have never graduated from high school.

This is true and harkens back back to a much earlier discussion.

The thing is, there are support communities around the better northern jobs that McLeod and Schmegelsky do not appear to have had access to. There’s a reason why half the people working at the oil sands in northern Alberta seem to come from Newfoundland. Indeed, I know two young Newfoundlanders in their mid-twenties who went to the oil sands, courtesy of connections, got some specialised training, and are now working internationally and each making about US$125,000/year tax free.

Any kid in his late teens in the community where I have my Newfoundland summer home can go to Alberta and make serious money, although it’s harder now given the current price of oil.

I don’t have the sense that these two had the kinds of connections that could open doors in the north.

 

[copkid]

RCMP have said that there is evidence connecting the 3 murders. People can choose to believe it, or do doubt the statement pending proof that what they are saying is true.

I choose to wait for PROOF
I find it difficult to understand why so many here at WS are not interested in that proof and are so ready to label them guilty?
Is WS not about facts and confirmed evidence.
I guess I must have missed something, but I will still wait for proof.
Just not ready to jump on the guilty bandwagon yet.

 

[NJSleuth91]

There would be few construction jobs in that area and without a drivers license doubtfully an option for him.

Doesn't Port Alberni have a high unemployment and underemployment rate? I feel like I remember reading that somewhere, that their one major industry mostly shut down in the 80s or something.

 

[Schmoosh]

His dad lived 2.5 hours away in Victoria and is homeless. I think that is probably more the reason why he didn't go back to it. The impression I got is that he moved in with his grandma at age 16 because his dad lost his housing and never found stable housing after that.

In my area there are people with bachelor's degrees working at Walmart....

Is the deal that he didn't see his son until about two and a half years ago? I'd look, but I'm doing housework. Do the rest of you good people have housekeepers or what?! LOL

 

[Zella]

There would be few construction jobs in that area and without a drivers license doubtfully an option for him.

Thank you. I wasn't aware that there weren't many construction jobs there. I have a lot of relatives who work in construction here (U.S.), and it seems to be pretty common to meet and carpool to sites. I didn't know if that was a regional thing or not. But I suppose even if that were an option for him, if the actual construction business hiring him wasn't nearby, he'd still run into issues with getting to wherever the meeting site was.

 

[Zella]

Is the deal that he didn't see his son until about two and a half years ago? I'd look, but I'm doing housework. Do the rest of you good people have housekeepers or what?! LOL

Yes, he was out of Bryer's life for several years. I think he must have re-entered it about the time that Bryer briefly lived with him 3 years ago and then remained in contact with him since Bryer then moved in with his grandma. (I get impression grandma is mom's mom.)

LOL I work from home part-time and just have gotten nothing constructive done for weeks because of this case.