Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[warmchair]

Here's how I think the final moments went down:

Around July 22nd, K & B were trying to get to Bird, Manitoba. We suspect this because the cabbie got a mysterious call about it. Maybe K & B just saw it as the next place on the map.

They drove the RAV4 to the end of the road, but found a dead end and had to turn around.

On the way back, they spotted a discarded little boat.

K & B got the bright idea to try to ride it down the river to Bird.

Ready to go, they grabbed all their stuff, torched the RAV4 as was their MO, and piled everything including themselves and a sleeping bag into the boat.

Little did they realize the boat was no match for the rapids. Seeing the violent river ahead, they either bailed out or capsized and had to swim to shore. The boat drifted on to where it was found later.

Soaking wet and cold, they discarded their wet clothes -- those are the personal items found -- and went into the bush to hide, where they could never warm up. They died of hypothermia.

That, or -- as another poster said -- K & B were dying of thirst, drank from the Nelson, and died from waterborne diseases.

 

[sprucetip]

It’s crazy

I’m thinking back to stories about C & L’s travels in Europe. Just wondering if at some point, these 4 were hanging out as (acquaintances met on the road) and a heated discussion between C & L and the teens over beliefs and politics occurred?

I was wondering that too, if they had connected along the highway before. Travelers along this highway often do connect with others - you stop at the same stops, you leapfrog each other as one stops, the other doesn't, then they catch up after you've stopped. You start to recognize people's vehicles. It's a long way and I don't doubt that it could have happened. They were not far past Muncho Lake, which is where many people stop for a break.

I was also thinking some type of road rage on K&B's part, maybe something happened on the highway that annoyed them? Hence the bearded man (who could have been KM) confronting them at the site of the van.

 

[Zella]

You are completely taking my post out of context. I was referring to waiting for the investigation to be completed rather than believing speculation from the media, etc. before making a judgement on what happened. I'm not creating judgements myself. And as far as how someone "looks", I was having a bit of fun with poster "Zella" who said BS looks kinda creepy. Geez man, lighten up.

LOL I agree what you said was taken out of context.

And I feel what I said was also taken out of context, but not by you. I'm not the only one who said he looked creepy! People were saying that when they were missing! I even said on here that just because he looked creepy doesn't mean he was creepy. (Though, according to most people who interacted with him, yeah, he was creepy.)

 

[SiciC]

Interesting that Bryer's last activity on his Steam account was around July 12. Lucas and Chynna were last seen July 13, and were killed between then and July 14. Which was also approximately the same time the families of BS and KM had last heard from them, when they were told they were leaving in search of work. They brought a big computer, which as someone else mentioned, wouldn't appear they planned on ending up in the woods. It would seem like they really were just going somewhere and brought the computer to play their online games(which would require the large computer with tower that was found) along the way/when they got to wherever they were going.. I think it seems more and more likely(to me) that they violently botched a robbery or something like that when they found LF and CD's van, got rid of them as witnesses, and then left a trail of destruction trying to get away from the situation. They possibly burned their truck to make it appear something had happened to them, not necessarily just because of possible evidence. I just think it's possible that these guys didn't initially set out on a mission to kill and end up dead in the end. I think things might've went sideways and they were young, had some violent ideologies, got in over their heads and then made some very irrational decisions - the last one possibly being to just end it by taking their own lives rather than give themselves up (of course we still don't have a cause of death). If a killing spree, "blaze of glory" was what they originally set out to do, I think a lot more people would've been hurt or killed.

Just speculating, all just my own opinions. Of course this could be way off and they were just opportunistic murderers who went out looking for easy targets and unfortunately found them. I will add that things I find questionable are the fact that Bryer was wearing full military type clothing for some reason, they gave differing accounts to their families of where they were going, and possibly were in possession of a gun somehow when they left... Sorry if I'm rambling, just trying to make some sense of this completely senseless situation.

 

[Errrr]

I wish I could like this more than once.

Well, the Sherman’s cause of death was released, and they weren’t even declared a homicide at the time. They were in no way impoverished or at risk. I’m pretty sure the family wouldn’t have wanted the cause released either.

 

[Gina20]

I think it’s safe to say at this time we know nothing.

Yes. These are some valid questions.

 

[LadyL]

Wow. I thought Websleuths would be about discussing possibilities and alternate theories, not just hammering out the mainstream view. If you're just going to go with the scenario the cops have given you without any evidence, what's the point of talking about it? Having another suspect involved is not a conspiracy. This case makes no sense. Maybe the cops have something wrong. It would be nice to hear ideas from people and not be shut down. I have learned from my life that truth can be a lot stranger than fiction.

what is the evidence you have to back up your theory?

 

[Zella]

Interesting that Bryer's last activity on his Steam account was around July 12. Lucas and Chynna were last seen July 13, and were killed between then and July 14. Which was also approximately the same time the families of BS and KM had last heard from them, when they were told they were leaving in search of work.

SBM

Entirely speculation on my part, but I wonder if was playing a game on July 12th immediately after midnight and in the early hours of the morning. Then he went to bed, got up, and told his dad that he and KM were heading out.

 

[Link Haze]

I don't think any of the speculation here has been out of the boundaries of what happens on WS for any other case or even for what people in their community are also wondering. If this happened in my neck of the woods, it would not impact any of the speculation I have engaged in. I understand if you don't like it and don't wish to engage in it--that is your prerogative--but it doesn't mean the people who are wondering about these things are doing anything wrong.

Edited to add: FWIW, I don't hate either of these young men. I actually feel sorry for them. The whole thing makes me incredibly sad because it seems so pointless and senseless for all 5 of these people to now be dead. And that's why I want to know what happened and that's why I speculate on what happened. None of what I have speculated in regard to the dynamic between them is outside the realm of reality or documented similar crimes.

I agree completely with Zella. I don't consider this gossip, it's great to have all sorts of speculation - that's what keeps these threads going. I also feel the whole thing is incredibly sad for all involved. I don't feel bad one bit for anything I am saying on this site.

 

[KR72]

The one thing about the robbery theory that gets me...Kam seems to have come from a wealthier and supportive family. If the two were running short of cash, wouldn't you think that Kam would have asked his parents for some help? I get the feeling that if'd he'd of asked, they would have transferred some money into his account.

 

[Gina20]

Well, the Sherman’s cause of death was released, and they weren’t even declared a homicide at the time. They were in no way impoverished or at risk. I’m pretty sure the family wouldn’t have wanted the cause released either.

Yes, anything told to him on background, he/she could not reveal. But it would allow the poster to state things about being there and what was observed and having access without us all wondering if it was true. I think the poster is telling the truth about his/her experiences, but it is hard to be certain without the confirmation as verified.

CP style is a helpful indicator.

 

[Rottiluvr]

I was wondering that too, if they had connected along the highway before. Travelers along this highway often do connect with others - you stop at the same stops, you leapfrog each other as one stops, the other doesn't, then they catch up after you've stopped. You start to recognize people's vehicles. It's a long way and I don't doubt that it could have happened. They were not far past Muncho Lake, which is where many people stop for a break.

I was also thinking some type of road rage on K&B's part, maybe something happened on the highway that annoyed them? Hence the bearded man (who could have been KM) confronting them at the site of the van.

I know I read somewhere on here about the van not being all the way off the highway.

 

[sandbar]

You can see its burned remnants in one of the photos where the stuff from the burned truck are displayed.

I've looked at 3 pics of the Rav4 and can't see anything recognizable. Are you talking about the burned out Rav or the burned out pick-up?

 

[aphoto]

Could the cabbie have been their next victim? Maybe like with LD and his Rav4, they wanted to change cars. Luring the cabdriver out of town would have made him and easy mark

Unlikely. If you want to lure a cab driver out of town you don’t ask for a ride from town to out of town you ask for a ride from out of town back to town. If the call was in anyway related to KM and BS I think it is in the form of an acquaintance who may have offered to help them in the area.

 

[10ofRods]

SBM

I think a lot of that is simply based on how active they seemed to be in the gaming community. Everyone interviewed about them mentions that they loved video games, and their social media presence also seemed heavily centered around it. Other than that and camping--oh and maybe Nazism, if we can call that a hobby--I'm not sure what other hobbies they had.

For what it's worth, I don't think video games solely caused them to do anything they did--people are more complex than that--but it was apparently such a central aspect of their socializing and daily lives that it would be unusual not to wonder if they derived inspiration from it or had a distorted view of reality from it.

What troubles me is the Christmas gift (to Bryer) of the camo and the airsoft gun. Up until then, he'd only been able to imagine himself with a "real" gun and camo, and now, his family/gift givers (I think it was his dad, IIRC) are supporting that persona IRL. While I believe in supporting the interests of teens, I am not sure that spending resources on their virtual lives is best. I am guessing the family/father was trying to connect with him on his own turf, but what really happened is that he was able to see himself, IRL, as a game character.

I still wonder if the airsoft was used in the crimes. While we've heard there was "gun violence," we know nothing about which gun or caliber. It's possible that the military knife was the killing weapon, especially given early descriptions of Chynna's injuries. However, Mr Pierre apparently said that Lucas's body had only one small wound in it, that he could see. So...a real gun would seem likely. Or a point blank, well aimed shot from an airsoft.

There was, at one point, an unblurred photo of Lucas's body circulating on the internet (from Mr Pierre?) I can't vouch for its authenticity, but if it was accurate, then that one shot (even from a pellet gun) could have been fatal.

Lots of unanswered questions. Anyway, if the airsoft was used in any of these crimes, parents should be aware and think about mental health issues before supplying a teen with one. I grew up with a pellet gun (.22 caliber pellets), but we treated it as a real gun and practiced real gun safety with it (and target practice could occur in the back yard). My dad used it to kill rats. We had other guns, too, and that early training with the pellet gun led to a lifetime of better gun handling habits.

 

[CanadianMade]

I know I'll get jumped on here, but it's the LD part of the story that something does not smell right around. I don't know what it is, but the pieces of the puzzle here are too scattered and illogical, and the LE too tight lipped and secret about it. I'm sorry, but right now I'm not prepared to accept this part of the investigation narrative at face value. Just my instinct and gut telling me that.

I'm not prepared to completely believe anything yet myself, though I am more inclined to believe they did kill LD. I believe it was not necessarily intentional. I still do not think they killed C and L though. I understand that they could have thought of burning vehicles later, but I really can't help but think they would have burned the van too.

 

[sprucetip]

The highway is a very small piece of Northern BC.

Many murders occur in Northern BC. Everyone who commits those murders travels on those same highways regardless of whether the murder is roadside or 5km in some direction.

Those two highways are the only two highways in northern BC. I call that more than just a small piece of northern BC. It IS northern BC. The Alaska highway alone is a major part of northern BC and you stating that it isn't, very clearly shows you have no idea what you're talking about here.

When murders happen in norther BC or Yukon, they stand out. Not sure what you mean by "many" but I'm confident our interpretations of that word in the context of murder are vastly different. I'm not sure what else I can tell you because you don't seem to want to understand that there is a local context that you just don't understand.

 

[missy1974]

The person who called the cabbie could have been a member of the press newly arrived in Gillam who wanted a way to get up to the spot where the RAV4 was sighted near Bird.

I believe the call to the cabbie was on July 22nd. Media and/or the RCMP were not even aware they were near or in Gillam at the time.

 

[Zella]

I agree completely with Zella. I don't consider this gossip, it's great to have all sorts of speculation - that's what keeps these threads going. I also feel the whole thing is incredibly sad for all involved. I don't feel bad one bit for anything I am saying on this site.

BBM

It really is. I had wanted the two suspects to be apprehended, and when I found out they were found dead, it didn't fill me with any joy. Honestly, I was eating lunch when I got the BBC news notification that bodies had been found in that area, and it took away my appetite for the rest of the day and left me gloomy and melancholy for a couple of days. I still am a bit shaken by the whole thing. I've felt that way ever since I read a news article on July 19th about LF and CD being found dead.

 

[Rottiluvr]

The one thing about the robbery theory that gets me...Kam seems to have come from a wealthier and supportive family. If the two were running short of cash, wouldn't you think that Kam would have asked his parents for some help? I get the feeling that if'd he'd of asked, they would have transferred some money into his account.

It’s mentioned many times here about KM’s family being well off. Wondering why then he was driving an old beat up truck with that old style camper?

 

[Satchie]

July 21 is actual date of tweet by AUS reporter Alexis citing Canada police are hunting for the teens after 3rd body located.

The "tip" and status change of teens by RCMP from 'missing' to 'suspect' is cited as July 23.

Why did AUS know the teens were suspects on 7/21 before RCMP announced to public on 7/23?

Catching up.

I don't think he knew, I think he was suspicious of the circumstances. As was I. As soon as I heard '19 year old men' and 'burned truck' and 'dead man apparently without a vehicle beside the side of a road', I suspected the teens had done it. It's just experience and thinking through how such a crime scene might have transpired: the logistics of managing two vehicles, the unlikelihood of anyone kidnapping 2 tall men.

I have no doubt the RCMP had that scenario in mind as well.

The key element is it's possible to have strong suspicions but to also keep an open mind, which allows you to immediately confirm or cancel your suspicions once more facts come in. And not to go around blabbing your suspicions as though they are facts, or distort the facts to suit your suspicions.

IMO that's what conspiracy thinkers get wrong. Instead of admitting that they don't know all the facts, or don't understand them, they jump to conclusions and close their minds to any new facts that come along.

IMO the tip might have been the suspects using or trying to use one of the victim's cards to buy something. Possibly in Meadowlake. Police would have immedately gone and gotten the store surveillance video. It seems to me otherwise very hard to link them so directly to his death, without having arrested them for driving his car.