Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Zella]

CP style is a helpful indicator.

Not if the reporter is American. It would be AP all the way.

 

[aphoto]

The person who called the cabbie could have been a member of the press newly arrived in Gillam who wanted a way to get up to the spot where the RAV4 was sighted near Bird.

Incredibly unlikely. Media arrived in both Gillam and Thompson and got rental cars. Media wouldn’t rely on a taxi as their only means to get around. Media discussed this cabbie a lot over dinners in Gillam and no one owned up to making the call.

Except the code of ethics that reporters abide by might not give leeway.

This is the reason I can’t disclose more of the things I know. Sources must be protected.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

The Mounties get their man!

 

[otto]

The one thing about the robbery theory that gets me...Kam seems to have come from a wealthier and supportive family. If the two were running short of cash, wouldn't you think that Kam would have asked his parents for some help? I get the feeling that if'd he'd of asked, they would have transferred some money into his account.

A man was murdered and his vehicle was stolen. Motive should be crystal clear to everyone who looks at the facts. This wasn't about money, this was about the suspects wanting a vehicle that day, so they murdered a man and took his Rav4.

 

[scrappinkat]

Um...dude, yesterday I posted a very detailed article from NPR about the psychological profiles of spree killers and how societal interventions can prevent young people from turning violent. I specifically highlighted the parts that seemed to match what we know about Kam and Bryer, and they fit the profile pretty exactly (especially Bryer).

That’s my point - psychological profiles are not created on a lack of knowledge. There’s not one person here that can create a proper psychological profile for either McLeod or Schmegelsky. IMO trying to present a person as fitting within a certain psychological profile, with what little has been said or learned, is risky and at times becomes a little disingenuous.

 

[Zella]

What troubles me is the Christmas gift (to Bryer) of the camo and the airsoft gun. Up until then, he'd only been able to imagine himself with a "real" gun and camo, and now, his family/gift givers (I think it was his dad, IIRC) are supporting that persona IRL. While I believe in supporting the interests of teens, I am not sure that spending resources on their virtual lives is best. I am guessing the family/father was trying to connect with him on his own turf, but what really happened is that he was able to see himself, IRL, as a game character.

I still wonder if the airsoft was used in the crimes. While we've heard there was "gun violence," we know nothing about which gun or caliber. It's possible that the military knife was the killing weapon, especially given early descriptions of Chynna's injuries. However, Mr Pierre apparently said that Lucas's body had only one small wound in it, that he could see. So...a real gun would seem likely. Or a point blank, well aimed shot from an airsoft.

There was, at one point, an unblurred photo of Lucas's body circulating on the internet (from Mr Pierre?) I can't vouch for its authenticity, but if it was accurate, then that one shot (even from a pellet gun) could have been fatal.

Lots of unanswered questions. Anyway, if the airsoft was used in any of these crimes, parents should be aware and think about mental health issues before supplying a teen with one. I grew up with a pellet gun (.22 caliber pellets), but we treated it as a real gun and practiced real gun safety with it (and target practice could occur in the back yard). My dad used it to kill rats. We had other guns, too, and that early training with the pellet gun led to a lifetime of better gun handling habits.

I would personally be surprised if LF was killed with a pellet gun. I grew up around firearms of all kinds (pellet guns, shotguns, rifles, handguns), and safety was taught will pellet guns, but I think you're a lot more likely to lose an eye than be killed. I believe 4 people a year are killed with them, on average. So, not outside the realm of possibility but also not likely compared to another firearm. I suspect LF was killed with a smaller-caliber rifle or pistol. I don't know about CD, but what the witness was implying suggested a larger-caliber weapon or maybe just a trajectory that caused a lot more damage.

All MOO

 

[Link Haze]

BBM

It really is. I had wanted the two suspects to be apprehended, and when I found out they were found dead, it didn't fill me with any joy. Honestly, I was eating lunch when I got the BBC news notification that bodies had been found in that area, and it took away my appetite for the rest of the day and left me gloomy and melancholy for a couple of days. I still am a bit shaken by the whole thing. I've felt that way ever since I read a news article on July 19th about LF and CD being found dead.

No kidding. I've had a churning in my stomach since I heard the breaking news on GlobalBC when the whole thing turned a 360 and the missing teens were called suspects. I almost wiped out in my car. It's big news for BC and Canada!

 

[Jen-Knee]

Looks like they are going out to search the site where the bodies were found. Perhaps the metal detector is to search for a gun???

Renata D'Aliesio on Twitter

It could just be to make sure they didn't miss anything. Although I am curious as to whether they are looking for anything specific or not.

 

[Rottiluvr]

I'm not prepared to completely believe anything yet myself, though I am more inclined to believe they did kill LD. I believe it was not necessarily intentional. I still do not think they killed C and L though. I understand that they could have thought of burning vehicles later, but I really can't help but think they would have burned the van too.

I’ve wondered about that as well. Why burn the other 2 vehicles but not L&C’s van. Doesn’t make sense to me. Just sayin’...

 

[Zella]

No kidding. I've had a churning in my stomach since I heard the breaking news on GlobalBC when the whole thing turned a 360 and the missing teens were called suspects. I almost wiped out in my car. It's big news for BC and Canada!

I still can't sleep. I've been into true crime since I was 7 or 8--I was a morbid kid--and am now 30, and I can't think of any case that has upset me and eaten away at me like this one.

 

[sandbar]

I'm not prepared to completely believe anything yet myself, though I am more inclined to believe they did kill LD. I believe it was not necessarily intentional. I still do not think they killed C and L though. I understand that they could have thought of burning vehicles later, but I really can't help but think they would have burned the van too.

There is a route that K&B could have taken that would have them in Deace Lake FIRST, then they travelled east. We don't know the times and dates of the deaths, just when they found.

 

[aphoto]

Yes, anything told to him on background, he/she could not reveal. But it would allow the poster to state things about being there and what was observed and having access without us all wondering if it was true. I think the poster is telling the truth about his/her experiences, but it is hard to be certain without the confirmation as verified.

The background bit is the biggest issue. I have been told a lot of things on background by single sources. Posting any of that without verifying further (which is usually impossible) puts the source at risk. I have just wrapped up my work for the day so after some family time I’ll get verified for everyone’s peace of mind.

Not if the reporter is American. It would be AP all the way.

Too many style guides out there and none agree. We can all agree that a journo isn’t going to write in AP style on an informal web forum! Too much effort

 

[LadyL]

The family was never asked what they want, IMO, because the family would want to know the cause of LD's death. Families do want and need this information. It would be very sad if they have to hire a lawyer to get this most basic information. I hope the authorities can extend basic rights and compassion to LD's family, as they seem to have done with the Fowlers. Two standards emerging here? Why?

of course the family will be told

 

[Zella]

Too many style guides out there and none agree. We can all agree that a journo isn’t going to write in AP style on an informal web forum! Too much effort

I'm a Chicago Manual of Style and MLA girl myself. I know just enough AP to be dangerous while still be clueless and drive all the journalists I know crazy.

And yeah I have a master's degree in English, but I'm not using the same tone I used to write my thesis on a chat site, so I wouldn't expect a reporter would either!

 

[NJSleuth91]

Interesting that Bryer's last activity on his Steam account was around July 12. Lucas and Chynna were last seen July 13, and were killed between then and July 14. Which was also approximately the same time the families of BS and KM had last heard from them, when they were told they were leaving in search of work. They brought a big computer, which as someone else mentioned, wouldn't appear they planned on ending up in the woods. It would seem like they really were just going somewhere and brought the computer to play their online games(which would require the large computer with tower that was found) along the way/when they got to wherever they were going.. I think it seems more and more likely(to me) that they violently botched a robbery or something like that when they found LF and CD's van, got rid of them as witnesses, and then left a trail of destruction trying to get away from the situation. They possibly burned their truck to make it appear something had happened to them, not necessarily just because of possible evidence. I just think it's possible that these guys didn't initially set out on a mission to kill and end up dead in the end. I think things might've went sideways and they were young, had some violent ideologies, got in over their heads and then made some very irrational decisions - the last one possibly being to just end it by taking their own lives rather than give themselves up (of course we still don't have a cause of death). If a killing spree, "blaze of glory" was what they originally set out to do, I think a lot more people would've been hurt or killed.

Just speculating, all just my own opinions. Of course this could be way off and they were just opportunistic murderers who went out looking for easy targets and unfortunately found them. I will add that things that are questionable are the fact that Bryer was wearing full military type clothing for some reason, they gave differing accounts to their families of where they were going, and possibly were in possession of a gun somehow when they left... Sorry if I'm rambling, just trying to make some sense of this completely senseless situation.

Is it confirmed that they brought their entire gaming computer? I mean that could indicate it wasn't planned, or it could indicate that they intended to get away with it.

I agree that the lack of additional victims indicates they didn't intend for things to go as they did. If it was a planned suicide mission from the start you would think they would have taken more people out. They had several days to do so between each killing and between being named as suspects. Plus if it was planned, you would think they would have planned it better.

I still really want to know where the gun came from. I agree it was probably from Kam's family, but we still don't know for sure.

This is a theory I've been thinking of for motive. Let's say they didn't set out planning to do anything bad necessarily. They took the gun for self defense because we already know Bryer at least had sort of that "militia" mindset and a bit of paranoia. It wouldn't even be considered a bad idea for anyone to bring a gun in a remote area like that. It started off as an adventure -- as far as we know this is the first time the two of them had ever had this level of independence. Maybe they lied to their families about their intended destination just because they wanted that feeling of freedom.

Then during many hours of driving along these remote country roads, just the two of them, they get to talking. They had probably discussed their violent impulses and misanthropy many times before. But now they start talking about "You know, we have this gun, we could kill (or rob, whatever) someone up here and nobody would ever know, it's the middle of nowhere, it would be so easy...." Maybe they even start off joking about it and slowly the conversation gets more serious. They just so happen to come across what they see as an "easy" victim. It doesn't go the way they expected, they freak out, and the rest is history.

The one thing about the robbery theory that gets me...Kam seems to have come from a wealthier and supportive family. If the two were running short of cash, wouldn't you think that Kam would have asked his parents for some help? I get the feeling that if'd he'd of asked, they would have transferred some money into his account.

If it was a robbery gone wrong, I don't think lack of money itself was the motive -- it was probably more about the thrill.

 

[aphoto]

I believe the call to the cabbie was on July 22nd. Media and/or the RCMP were not even aware they were near or in Gillam at the time.

That too. I feel stupid not making that connection right now. Yes it was before the media flooded in. He realized a possible connection the next day when he learnt that K&B burnt the RAV4 up near Bird.

 

[Kubirai]

I’m thinking back to stories about C & L’s travels in Europe. Just wondering if at some point, these 4 were hanging out as (acquaintances met on the road) and a heated discussion between C & L and the teens over beliefs and politics occurred?

Unlikely. Lucas/Chynna don't seem to be the type to engage in poltical conversations with a pair of teens like KM/BS, even if they crossed paths on July 13 at Pink Mountain or Fort Nelson.

 

[KR72]

A man was murdered and his vehicle was stolen. Motive should be crystal clear to everyone who looks at the facts. This wasn't about money, this was about the suspects wanting a vehicle that day, so they murdered a man and took his Rav4.

I totally agree, but what about LF and CD? Why kill them or even try and rob them?

If it was a robbery gone wrong, I don't think lack of money itself was the motive -- it was probably more about the thrill.

Yes, quite possibly about thrill rather than "necessity."

 

[scrappinkat]

One gets the impression that this is the first time in Canadian history that someone was murdered in Northern BC.

Fortunately, or rather unfortunately, history disproves this impression.

 

[Zella]

This is a theory I've been thinking of for motive. Let's say they didn't set out planning to do anything bad necessarily. They took the gun for self defense because we already know Bryer at least had sort of that "militia" mindset and a bit of paranoia. It wouldn't even be considered a bad idea for anyone to bring a gun in a remote area like that. It started off as an adventure -- as far as we know this is the first time the two of them had ever had this level of independence. Maybe they lied to their families about their intended destination just because they wanted that feeling of freedom.

Then during many hours of driving along these remote country roads, just the two of them, they get to talking. They had probably discussed their violent impulses and misanthropy many times before. But now they start talking about "You know, we have this gun, we could kill (or rob, whatever) someone up here and nobody would ever know, it's the middle of nowhere, it would be so easy...." Maybe they even start off joking about it and slowly the conversation gets more serious. They just so happen to come across what they see as an "easy" victim. It doesn't go the way they expected, they freak out, and the rest is history.

I think this is a very likely scenario. MOO