Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[TristanP]

Every day on the news I hear, "man stabbed to death", "woman shot to death", "teen gunned down in daylight shooting", "woman beaten to death with bat", etc etc etc.

I guess in all those cases the police said f&%k it to the victim's dignity? Why all of a sudden is this one person's dignity so exceptionally important to protect while the other 99.9% of the murder victims in society are not worthy of being afforded that same "dignity"?

Not buyin' it! There's something else happening here and I can't quite put my finger on it.

There are occasionally cases where they hold back the cause of death. The Missy Bevers case in TX is one example. There was a search warrant that said she died of puncture wounds to the head and neck, and it was also said they thought the person used a tool seen in the surveillance video, but it’s never been officially verified. And someone provided info to the Murder AccountabilityProject that it was a gunshot wound to the head, but I’ve never been able to find the source for that so I don’t consider it a fact.

 

[JuneBug67]

I think y’all are forgetting AS is a victim and we don’t sleuth victims on WS.

I’m not sure how flexible that rule is. We’re not really sleuthing, we’re responding to MSM reports and his own words. I think he’s largely viewed as a victim here, and the conversation reflects that.

 

[missy1974]

As you said, the investigation is still ongoing, so until such time as it is done, they are only suspects/accused. I would think so long as the RCMP had a code of not announcing cause of death to protect the victims dignity, they would ensure first through their investigation that BS and KM were not in fact victim's themselves.

If they already have come to the conclusion they are guilty, then close the investigation, and share the details to the public.

I'm sorry, I just disagree, I don't see these 2 as victims at this point. I can understand where you are coming from and understand what you are saying, but just disagree.

What I do agree with is that I think the RCMP should be more forthcoming, I wish they would give more details, so maybe it would put some of the theories to rest. Maybe they will do that tomorrow too.

 

[grannygates]

It’s clear...they were done in Manitoba.

and now i know !

 

[Snoop Sister]

It’s clear...they were done in Manitoba.

Yes on the last RC’s presser that is what was stated. It was indicated that the results would be sent to BC RCMP.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I've long wondered about this aspect, which is why I said, a while back, I hope the toxicology report is released at some point. Perhaps illegal drugs, or even prescribed drugs misused (like, snorting them) or even a rare bad reaction to prescribed meds taken as directed, can cause some truly bizarre behavior, paranoia, violence, psychotic behavior, etc.

There are many things about this case that just do not make sense to me (burning their truck, heading for very long dead-end road, burning the RAV4 instead of ditching it in thick cover, etc, etc.) that could be explained by drugs. Could.

What I wrote above is only a guess, and I am absolutely not trying to absolve anyone of any guilt whatsoever, just trying to figure out the cause.

Drugs don't excuse anything legally or morally. Either way three innocent people are dead.

However, drugs would explain a LOT in terms of the various "WTF" aspects of this case. In fact I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more earlier. It actually makes a ton of sense. It would even explain Bryer's weird paranoid behavior while they were stuck in the mud...I mean he was also just weird and paranoid in general and they were probably terrified in general too, but the twitchy way he was acting almost sounds like he might have been on something, doesn't it? JMO.

I don't know if they will have any drugs on their toxicology reports or found among their belongings. They might have run out by then or realized that taking drugs wasn't going to help their situation. Even if there aren't any, it doesn't necessarily mean drugs weren't involved in the murders, although we will probably never know that for sure. I'd be very surprised if they weren't, actually.

Just say no, kids....

 

[missy1974]

I think y’all are forgetting AS is a victim and we don’t sleuth victims on WS. Specifically but not limited to discussion about AS’s past criminal history etc,

Unfortunately, AS keeps talking

 

[Snoop Sister]

DBM

 

[Snoop Sister]

Unfortunately, AS keeps talking

I was referring to previous posts quite a few pages when I was trying to catch up...looking and discussing past criminal records not related to the case.

 

[MistyWaters]

I find it difficult to imagine anyone but a doctor , a forensic doctor ,at that, to do an autopsy?

Maybe I am in the deep end of a culture gap!

I don’t notice that the Province of Manitoba’s Chief Medical Examiner’s Office publishes the qualifications but yes, it would be expected its doctors trained in pathology who complete autopsies.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think a cocktail of no sleep, Ritalin snorting, deep rooted disturbing and/or emotional problems and a history of maybe resenting society/the world makes sense to me too. Them asking about alcohol on the reservation too although that could've been a distraction but who knows.

I mean, it's almost textbook, isn't it? There are so many crimes -- murders, rapes, etc. -- where drugs are the deciding factor between whether the crime happens or not. It would also explain their lack of previous criminal history or actual acts of violence. They had dark and violent impulses they never actually acted upon, their inhibitions were lowered through the use of intoxicants, and they acted upon those impulses. JMO.

I wonder if they wanted to purchase alcohol for their trip into the wilderness. Since they knew there was a good chance they'd be having to shoot themselves in the next few days, perhaps they wanted to take the edge off if they had to do it.

 

[MistyWaters]

As you said, the investigation is still ongoing, so until such time as it is done, they are only suspects/accused. I would think so long as the RCMP had a code of not announcing cause of death to protect the victims dignity, they would ensure first through their investigation that BS and KM were not in fact victim's themselves.

If they already have come to the conclusion they are guilty, then close the investigation, and share the details to the public.

Unless both B&K died due to homicide, they can’t be victims.

 

[JuneBug67]

Regarding COD, dignity and official positions: I don’t see it as the victims being more or less deserving than the perpetrators; it’s a matter of competing priorities. All people have a right to dignity, but there is a public interest that applies to KM and BS that just doesn’t to LD. Competing rights are weighed against each other all the time, and balances are struck.

 

[Esprite]

This is not quite how it works.
This is news so of public interest.
Not a family choice.

Apparently, being of public interest is overruled by family wishes in BC, and other provinces.

No doubt this link has already been posted, but B.C. RCMP Assistant Commissioner Kevin Hackett clearly states that police do not plan on releasing Dyck's cause of death "out of respect for the family."

B.C. RCMP say deaths of northern B.C. murder suspects will not stop investigation

 

[sprucetip]

Common questions about death investigations
What are coroners?
Coroners are medical doctors with specialized death investigation training, who have been appointed to investigate sudden deaths as mandated by the Coroners Act.

What are pathologists and forensic pathologists?
Pathologists are medical doctors who are experts in disease and injury. Forensic pathologists have further training and are experts in disease and injury that result in sudden death. Pathologists and forensic pathologists are the medical doctors who perform autopsies, when required. Forensic pathologists may also be appointed as coroners to investigate cases of suspicious death.

What is a death investigation?
A death investigation is a process whereby a coroner or forensic pathologist seeks to understand how and why a person died. A coroner or forensic pathologist must answer five questions when investigating a death:

• Who (identity of the deceased)
• When (date of death)
• Where (location of death)
• How (medical cause of death)
• By what means (natural causes, accident, homicide, suicide or undetermined)

Information may be obtained from several sources including, but not limited to family, co-workers, neighbours, doctors, hospital records, police and other emergency service workers. Contact with family is vital as they often have important information that can aid the investigation.

How are police involved?
Police are usually among the first responders at a death scene. Coroners may request police assistance with investigations.

Why is a coroner called?
A coroner is called to investigate deaths that appear to be from unnatural causes or natural deaths that occur suddenly or unexpectedly. Additionally, a coroner may become involved when concerns are raised regarding the care provided to an individual prior to death.

...
Autopsy
What is an autopsy?
An autopsy, also known as a postmortem examination, is a process whereby a pathologist or forensic pathologist examines the decedent’s body to help determine cause of death. An autopsy usually includes the examination of internal organs.

Who decides whether an autopsy is needed?
The coroner, often in consultation with a forensic pathologist, will decide if an autopsy is needed.

How does a coroner address family concerns about an autopsy?
The coroner will explain the need for an autopsy and carefully assess concerns expressed by the family. However, the coroner will proceed with ordering an autopsy if he or she believes an autopsy is needed to inform the death investigation. The coroner’s decision is legal and binding.

Who performs the autopsy?
A pathologist or forensic pathologist performs the autopsy.

Common questions about death investigations | Ministry of the Solicitor General

Re coroners, that’s for Ontario. Surprisingly coroners elsewhere do not need to be doctors. I worked with someone who’s husband was one and was not a doctor. He had zero medical training, which surprised me.

But I believe for these autopsies, it was done by a medical examiner, who is a dr.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Drugs don't excuse anything legally or morally. Either way three innocent people are dead.

However, drugs would explain a LOT in terms of the various "WTF" aspects of this case. In fact I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more earlier. It actually makes a ton of sense. It would even explain Bryer's weird paranoid behavior while they were stuck in the mud...I mean he was also just weird and paranoid in general and they were probably terrified in general too, but the twitchy way he was acting almost sounds like he might have been on something, doesn't it? JMO.

I don't know if they will have any drugs on their toxicology reports or found among their belongings. They might have run out by then or realized that taking drugs wasn't going to help their situation. Even if there aren't any, it doesn't necessarily mean drugs weren't involved in the murders, although we will probably never know that for sure. I'd be very surprised if they weren't, actually.

Just say no, kids....

Drugs were discussed on past threads...I think more on the first threads and off and on since.

 

[PeoZ]

Back to the theory that KM and BS may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time....

The fact that the RAV 4 was set on fire still doesn't sit well w me... no one knew they were there... why set your car on fire basically saying here we are only to go hide in the woods that have no exit?

What if there WAS a third person. And this person was resp for the murders . Kam and Bryer came across the first murders being committed and were used and framed from that point?

Things just don’t add up so much that something is off, maybe it is something along that line?

The burning of the vehicles makes sense only for the purpose of destroying evidence that may have been transferred from the murder scenes to the vehicles. Of course, making that decision needs to be weighted against what you say, that it's basically giving up their general location, or at the very least giving the police a point to pick up their trail again.

I've always wondered why they burned the RAV4, instead of just hiding it in the bush.

I've also wondered why they didn't just head to Winnipeg, where they could blend in more easily.

Point is, hindsight is 20/20, but who knows what was going on inside their heads when they were making those decisions.

 

[JuneBug67]

I was referring to previous posts quite a few pages when I was trying to catch up...looking and discussing past criminal records not related to the case.

The info was published in the MSM in the context of this case, so again it’s kind of unclear. Not sure where the line is.

 

[Iwondertoo]

If by chance the mother had a restraining order preventing AS from contacting her because the prior criminal harassment charges involved threats he made to her life, yet B wanted a relationship with his father in spite of that while encouraging his son to play killing games, could be a valid reason for her to step aside IMO. She didn’t abandon B, he lived with his grandmother.

I wonder sometimes if BS just went to live with his Dad during the summer school break (July and August) for some work experience. He then returned to PA at the end of summer to return to school. I don't think it's ever been confirmed how long the two lived together.

Kids in Canada, JMO of course, start to look for jobs around 15-16 because they desire expensive things. BS wanted a good gaming computer so he spent a summer with his father working in his construction business. In return, Dad bought him the computer he wanted. At the end of August, he then returned to PA for school and for whatever reason, moved in with his Grandmother.

This would suggest to me though, that BS and his father would have at least been in touch and had some sort of on going communication before BS went to spend the summer with his father.

I'm not convinced that BS ran away from home - it could just be the media's spin on it.

He may have been doing what many Canadian kids do at 16 - gain work experience to prepare for the real world.

Who knows, BS' mom may have even encouraged him to spend the summer months working with his Dad (regardless of her own issues with AS). She too may have wanted to encourage him to get off the computer during the summer months.

(Anyhow, this is just is my thoughts to what might have being happening at the time BS was 16 but doesn't negate his guilt in killing 3 people).

 

[MistyWaters]

Re coroners, that’s for Ontario. Surprisingly coroners elsewhere do not need to be doctors. I worked with someone who’s husband was one and was not a doctor. He had zero medical training, which surprised me.

But I believe for these autopsies, it was done by a medical examiner, who is a dr.

Yes, some provinces use a Coroner system, others a Medical Examiner including Manitoba (re - Office of Chief Medical Examiner)

“In some provinces, we have a Medical Examiners system and in others a Coroners system. Medical examiners must be medical doctors, but not necessarily forensic pathologists. Only the Chief and Deputy Medical Examiner are usually forensic pathologists. In Ontario, coroners are also doctors, but in the rest of Canada, coroners are lay coroners and come from many backgrounds.”
Medical