Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[NJSleuth91]

Other than AS, who do you recall speaking to the media about the two being childhood friends?

I’m not saying the two were strangers. A place the size of Port Alberni, kids in the same grade or one grade higher or lower would certainly know each other. But I’m wondering if their friendship grew if they attended the alternate school together and gaming was the link.

Yes, there's a lot about this case that is odd and on the surface makes no sense, but I have no doubt in my mind that these 2 were like glue and considered each other the brother they never had.

Agreed. Until I see something indicating they were not childhood friends, I'm going to assume that was accurate. There's already enough in this case that's ambiguous, without questioning things that don't have any real reason to be questioned. Either way there's no doubt in my mind either that their bond was unbreakable. In fact I think their friendship dynamic is one of the most fascinating and unusual things about the case and probably what has pulled a lot of people in. A lot of times in cases like this, it's very common for the perpetrators to almost immediately turn on each other, rat each other out, pin responsibility for the crimes on each other, etc. Especially if they're two scared, dumb teenagers looking for any way out of the situation, as these two seemed to be. The fact that they never did that and went to the literal ends of the earth together, I think is a testament to how true their bond was. In fact, as far as we know they didn't even get upset at each other when they got stuck in the mud -- they were very upset at the situation, but not at each other -- even though Bryer could have gotten upset at Kam for not driving more carefully and Kam could have gotten upset at Bryer for freaking out and not being more helpful.

 

[Zella]

Agreed. Until I see something indicating they were not childhood friends, I'm going to assume that was accurate. There's already enough in this case that's ambiguous, without questioning things that don't have any real reason to be questioned. Either way there's no doubt in my mind either that their bond was unbreakable. In fact I think their friendship dynamic is one of the most fascinating and unusual things about the case and probably what has pulled a lot of people in. A lot of times in cases like this, it's very common for the perpetrators to almost immediately turn on each other, rat each other out, pin responsibility for the crimes on each other, etc. Especially if they're two scared, dumb teenagers looking for any way out of the situation, as these two seemed to be. The fact that they never did that and went to the literal ends of the earth together, I think is a testament to how true their bond was. In fact, as far as we know they didn't even get upset at each other when they got stuck in the mud -- they were very upset at the situation, but not at each other -- even though Bryer could have gotten upset at Kam for not driving more carefully and Kam could have gotten upset at Bryer for freaking out and not being more helpful.

The apparent strength of their friendship is one of the things that makes me so sad about this case--and is also one of the things that has intrigued me. That's a good point about their foray in the mud. They sounded pretty defeated, but it's true--there's no indication they were bickering with each other about it.

Edited to add: Before I knew more about them, I thought they would turn on each other if caught. I don't think that anymore if they had been captured.

 

[scrappinkat]

I think it's actually a 60 Minutes Australia reporter who's been following him around. I think he mailed copies of his book to different news outlets and the Daily Fail, of course, was one of the ones who went to press about it. But to my knowledge, there's not a DM reporter who has been in close contact with him.

Yes you’re right (I wish we had more smileys so I could use the oops/red faced fella at this moment) The style seemed so similar and sensationalized I didn’t even think to look at the name of the paper lol.

 

[Zella]

Yes you’re right (I wish we had more smileys so I could use the oops/red faced fella at this moment) The style seemed so similar and sensationalized I didn’t even think to look at the name of the paper lol.

No worries! I can see why you'd think that!

 

[MistyWaters]

I have seen several of their acquaintances express real surprise that Kam would be involved but say that Bryer doesn't surprise them. As I've said before, I think Kam did a better job of hiding his darker side. He certainly didn't seem disturbed by the disturbing things that Bryer did.

Yes I agree, I think Kam hid it better too.

As for B, this is also why I think AS is not a reliable spokesperson if others noticed B had issues. As it appears AS was not following a treatment program for his own mental issues, if B was “[messed] up in the mind” would AS encourage him to be agreeable to medical assistance? Or would AS intentionally mirror his own personal hostility and resentment towards health treatment, B’s mother and the legal system in general?

 

[CinNC]

I do not agree that Sarah Abo was smirking or leading AS at all. Her face is completely relaxed throughout. If someone doesn't like her looks or features, that is their prerogative. To me, however, she is completely relaxed and neutral.

There is pretty much zero chance that all of the questions for Alan weren't discussed ahead of time. More than one "take" was likely filmed so they'd have options when editing. In the old days, one would say that more cut film ended up on the editing room floor than what actually went into the production, but that's old fashioned since its all digital, now. For the seventeen minutes of the time on 60 Minutes, they likely taped for hours to get the seventeen minutes worth. For instance, they didn't just go from the set or a hotel room to standing in the forest by someone waving their magic wand. A lot of thought went into where they were going to film, and what they were going to cover. As someone who has done the videography on half-hour productions, I can tell you it takes hours to change venues and settings and get the people and equipment all in the same place at once. Then, there are hours of filming. Followed by hours of editing, which AS likely had a say in, as well. "Take that bit out. Now add that bit in the hotel room. No, put the bit we took out before back in. That is REALLY how it goes,

I am a retired Instructional Designer and Corporate Trainer and for ten years I wrote content, scripts and production storyboards for high-level marketing and training videos. You don't just walk into a room, turn the camera on your subject and shoot for half an hour asking random questions. That is a waste of time and resources. The interviewer has handlers who decide what will be discussed. The interviewer discusses them with the interviewee and they work through the "script" before they ever begin taping. She didn't surprise him or catch him off guard and he had time to think about what he was going to say ahead of time.

This isn't a guess. This is how producing a new piece is done, and in addition to my own career in the corporate world, I frequently worked with a production company on top news stories in NYC. I thought Sarah was very professional; she didn't tromp on AS's toes nor treat him with kid gloves. I think that everyone involved in the production, logistics, directing and editing did a really nice job.

But AS did the best job of all. Bugs Bunny, Elmer Fudd and his shotgun INDEED. Alan is a bright and witty man and he has a quirky yet astute way of expressing himself that is quite engaging. By the time he got to 60 Minutes he would undoubtedly have been very comfortable around Sarah after two weeks with her. She didn't try to trap him or belittle him or lead him; she just provided agreed-upon questions to ask and kept the convo on track while allowing AS a lot of freedom, script-wise. JMO, as always.

 

[missy1974]

I have seen several of their acquaintances express real surprise that Kam would be involved but say that Bryer doesn't surprise them. As I've said before, I think Kam did a better job of hiding his darker side. He certainly didn't seem disturbed by the disturbing things that Bryer did.

I also think it's possible we are not hearing people come forward and speaking badly about Kam because of his family and their influence. JMO

 

[scrappinkat]

Gilroy killer may have planned an escape into the wilderness after the killings, based on stuff found in his car.

Gilroy festival gunman had passport, clown mask, survival guide in car at time of shooting

He even had a Sig Sauer pellet pistol.

A pellet pistol would be great for supplying oneself with squirrels in the wilderness. Just not when caught by a CO and having to explain why you’re breaking the law.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The apparent strength of their friendship is one of the things that makes me so sad about this case--and is also one of the things that has intrigued me. That's a good point about their foray in the mud. They sounded pretty defeated, but it's true--there's no indication they were bickering with each other about it.

Edited to add: Before I knew more about them, I thought they would turn on each other if caught. I don't think that anymore if they had been captured.

Same. It's one of the main reasons why I think they had the potential to have been good people, and this whole thing wasn't like, pre-destined, if you know what I mean. Because you have to have some good in you to care about someone else that much, that you won't throw them under the bus or abandon them even to save your own life. It makes me sad that they had so much hate and anger, instead of seeing how much good they really had in their lives.

 

[Zella]

Yes I agree, I think Kam hid it better too.

As for B, this is also why I think AS is not a reliable spokesperson if others noticed B had issues. As it appears AS was not following a treatment program for his own mental issues, if B was [messed] up in the mind would AS encourage him to be agreeable to medical assistance? Or would AS intentionally mirror his own personal hostility and resentment towards health treatment, B’s mother and the system in general?

That's a good question. I really don't know.

I kind of get the impression a lot of BS's more disturbing behavior was not necessarily reported to adults. (I know Kam and Bryer were adults, too, but still.) It seems like his violent and suicidal threats in Grade 7 were never reported to the school, and most of the more disturbing accounts of his behavior come from peers who never say they told anyone else. It seems like they tended to just cut him off rather than report him. I wonder if any of his more trollish behavior in games was ever reported or was just kind of an open secret among his fellow gamers that drove them crazy but never occurred to them to report.

One of the moms of a former friend was a neighbor, and she seemed to be aware that he had turned off her son with some of his Nazi comments, but the most I saw her say from her own personal experiences with Bryer was that he seemed a little too obsessed with video games being real. I think Bryer kind of knew to mind himself around adults (except for maybe his mom)--they're more likely to say he was a polite, nice kid.

I know from my own experiences, I knew other kids when I was a kid who were super messed up, but none of us ever realized we needed to tell any adults about it. I don't know if it was fear of being seen as a snitch or just not realizing the severity of what we were seeing or even fear of "getting them in trouble" and not realizing that it actually may have been an intervention that was needed. All MOO, but I could see Bryer's peers feeling the same way.

 

[MistyWaters]

I also think it's possible we are not hearing people come forward and speaking badly about Kam because of his family and their influence. JMO

The media often protects the identity of people who provide information by referring to them as “sources close to the family” who have spoken on the condition of anonymity.

 

[Zella]

I also think it's possible we are not hearing people come forward and speaking badly about Kam because of his family and their influence. JMO

That's possible, but it seems like he made a good impression on people he just ran into on a peripheral level, like coffee shop workers and a local game store owner. I know Kam's family is more affluent than Bryer's, but I don't necessarily get the impression they are so prominent in the community that people fear them. I could be wrong about that, though.

I feel like if Kam had creeped a bunch of people out and they didn't want to anger his folks, they'd just "no comment" rather than bragging about his personality.

 

[Zella]

The media often protects the identity of people who provide information by referring to them as “sources close to the family” who have spoken on the condition of anonymity.

That's true--one of the kids who talked about Bryer didn't want his name revealed, and that wish was respected. I think if someone wanted to spill the beans on Kam, they could. Just MOO.

 

[scrappinkat]

We have no idea what McLeod’s parents have been told.

We, and the RCMP, know that Alan Schmegelsky was camped out with Australia’s 60 Minutes for the better part of the last month, not to mention his chit chat with the Daily Mail and interviews with assorted other media outlets.

I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the RCMP have not been spilling their guts on what they know to Alan Schmegelsky.

In Canada policy dictates what police inform family members of, especially in cases like this. Not who a person talks too or doesn’t talk to. I’m willing to bet that Keith Mcleod has been told just as few details regarding evidence as Alan Schmegelsky.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Gilroy killer may have planned an escape into the wilderness after the killings, based on stuff found in his car.

Gilroy festival gunman had passport, clown mask, survival guide in car at time of shooting

He even had a Sig Sauer pellet pistol.

...to blend in with all the clowns should he stumble upon the enchanted clown forest

 

[sandbar]

Gilroy killer may have planned an escape into the wilderness after the killings, based on stuff found in his car.

Gilroy festival gunman had passport, clown mask, survival guide in car at time of shooting

He even had a Sig Sauer pellet pistol.

WOW, thanks, there are a lot of details in that article and the links embedded, that are similar to this case. Thanks for sharing.

 

[10ofRods]

...to blend in with all the clowns should he stumble upon the enchanted clown forest

Too soon, dude. Really, too soon.

 

[MistyWaters]

That's a good question. I really don't know.

I kind of get the impression a lot of BS's more disturbing behavior was not necessarily reported to adults. (I know Kam and Bryer were adults, too, but still.) It seems like his violent and suicidal threats in Grade 7 were never reported to the school, and most of the more disturbing accounts of his behavior come from peers who never say they told anyone else. It seems like they tended to just cut him off rather than report him. I wonder if any of his more trollish behavior in games was ever reported or was just kind of an open secret among his fellow gamers that drove them crazy but never occurred to them to report.

One of the moms of a former friend was a neighbor, and she seemed to be aware that he had turned off her son with some of his Nazi comments, but the most I saw her say from her own personal experiences with Bryer was that he seemed a little too obsessed with video games being real. I think Bryer kind of knew to mind himself around adults (except for maybe his mom)--they're more likely to say he was a polite, nice kid.

I know from my own experiences, I knew other kids when I was a kid who were super messed up, but none of us ever realized we needed to tell any adults about it. I don't know if it was fear of being seen as a snitch or just not realizing the severity of what we were seeing or even fear of "getting them in trouble" and not realizing that it actually may have been an intervention that was needed. All MOO, but I could see Bryer's peers feeling the same way.

“They were “everyday, good kids” who didn’t get into trouble, but his son had problems at home and, at 16, briefly moved to Victoria to live with him, Alan Schmegelsky said. The boy then returned to Port Alberni to live with his grandmother.”.....”
‘He’s on a suicide mission’: Father of 18-year-old murder suspect says he won’t be taken alive


I think there’s more to AS’s water-downed story. What sort of “problems at home” would cause B to move to Victoria to live with a father he had no contact with since he was 5, B’s mother apparently fearful that AS would kill her while AS was convicted of several criminal harassment charges and probation breaches over those same years.

I wonder was there a restraining order against AS contacting both B and his mother but when B reached the age of 16 it no longer applied? Then he “briefly moved” to Victoria and then what happened? Why briefly? And after B moved back, did Bs Port Alberni family know B was still in regular contact with his father or were these visits on the sly? This is not an excuse for murder but if B was [messed] in the head it’s really no wonder given AS’s life appears to have been in a mess as well.

Alan Schmegelsky, father of northern B.C. murder suspect, details troubled life in book

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Too soon, dude. Really, too soon.

Too soon to belittle the guy? What are you talking about?

Alright then, you let me know when it's OK.

 

[Zella]

“They were “everyday, good kids” who didn’t get into trouble, but his son had problems at home and, at 16, briefly moved to Victoria to live with him, Alan Schmegelsky said. The boy then returned to Port Alberni to live with his grandmother.”.....”
‘He’s on a suicide mission’: Father of 18-year-old murder suspect says he won’t be taken alive


I think there’s more to AS’s water-downed story. What sort of “problems at home” would cause B to move to Victoria to live with a father he had no contact with since he was 5, B’s mother apparently fearful that AS would kill her while AS was convicted of several criminal harassment charges and probation breaches over those same years.

I wonder was there a restraining order against AS contacting both B and his mother but when B reached the age of 16 it no longer applied? Then he “briefly moved” to Victoria and then what happened? Why briefly? And after B moved back, did Bs Port Alberni family know B was still in regular contact with his father or were these visits on the sly? This is not an excuse for murder but if B was [messed] in the head it’s really no wonder given AS’s life appears to have been in a mess as well.

Alan Schmegelsky, father of northern B.C. murder suspect, details troubled life in book

My understanding is Bryer ran away from his mom's home around the time he moved in with his dad and was apparently not getting along with his mother, so I'm not surprised he tried living with his dad at some point.

I don't know what Canada custody laws are, but I know here in the US, a lot of times, older kids have more of a say in which parent they live with. I've known many who have bolted for the non-custodial parent as soon as they can, sometimes out of a misguided belief that it will be better or easier there.

As for why he returned to Port Alberni within a couple of months, I don't know. It has never been addressed, to the best of my knowledge. Some of us suspect he really missed Kam and found the 2.5 hour distance from Port Alberni draconian. If he and his father didn't get along and that's why Bryer left, it doesn't seem to have drastically affected their relationship since they apparently have stayed in touch since then.

His father's homelessness, which apparently has lasted a couple of years, may also have been a factor in why Bryer didn't continue living with him, though I am unsure when that started.

I also don't know if Bryer's other family knew about his bi-monthly visits with dad, but I would suspect his grandmother did since he lived with her and Bryer couldn't drive.

All MOO.