Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[Lalalacasbah]

Did we pose the questions about B&K calling RCMP with a false tip?

They had a cell phone it seems, not sure during that time but maybe they wanted to draw police away from Gillam to try to escape.

 

[MistyWaters]

From the article:


Interesting. I am a little annoyed that he didn't go into more detail on what it could mean if criminals do leave "last words," like in terms of what circumstances or criminal profiles usually lead to that happening.

I think without him knowing what the last words were, it’d just be guesswork on his part.

 

[SovereignSnake]

From my memory since I can’t find the direct link. July 28/29 there were reports of shots fired? At the time, it was thought to be the RCMP indicating their location in the bush because their radios weren’t working properly? Has this ever been confirmed? Is it possible it was Bryer and Kam, the day they committed suicide?

Here's that original story. Also keep in mind York Landing is about 130 miles southwest from where Kam and Bryar were found.

Shots heard by York Landing, Man., residents used as a police communication tool, RCMP commander explains

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think without him knowing what the last words were, it’d just be guesswork on his part.

Well, he said it was unusual for last words to be left at all. Regardless of the content, I would be interested to know if there are any general similarities between cases where last words are left vs. not.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think without him knowing what the last words were, it’d just be guesswork on his part.

What a plot twist if in their "deathbed confession" they state they are innocent. I doubt it but who knows with these two

 

[NJSleuth91]

What a plot twist if in their "deathbed confession" they state they are innocent. I doubt it but who knows with these two

Well, in that case, as the police officers on COPS often yell at the suspects, "Why'd you run?!"

 

[10ofRods]

I've got two scenarios about how B and K left PA (and a few clues as to what the "triggers" were for their sudden homicidal trip, would love feedback):

1) They were sent off with cash and a fond good-bye from their families (with an open door to return any time they wished)

2) They were told they needed to get jobs, make some money, and get themselves out of the house, somehow (with the truck and camper being the stepping stone). If they decide to come back, there will be rules.

Since, where I live, #1 is certainly common enough, parents often do send along cash, as though the kids are going to summer camp in the Big World. But often, #2 is employed.

In both scenarios, the parents are trying to get the kids to launch. The kids are notably inexperienced in the real world (for B and K, not even a recent, real school experience and apparently very little work experience).

Both can be experienced by the teens as being "pushed out the door," but the 2nd is the more tough love approach (although still involves permission to take the truck).

Being sent out of a house which had electricity and a fine gaming computer to live in a camper (sure, it's your best buddy, but you're both used to having your own beds, rooms and real showers)... can feel jarring. If there's underlying mental disorder, that stress can really bring out the poor cognition.

We don't know for sure if drugs were involved, but sudden loss of a lifestyle that possibly included sleeping whenever one liked, gaming online, gaming outdoors, not much work-life, electricity, running water, someone else paying bills etc...might have been really been hard on one or both of them.

If both were suicidal and depressed before they ever left home, then once on the road everything seemed overwhelming and they became a ticking time bomb. If I were a betting person, I'd bet they had alluded to suicide, to each other, on more than one occasion before leaving PA.

The picture of BS with the gun in his mouth speaks to that. You could even say that rather than kill their parents/family members as some youths do, they struck out at "others:" those who were clearly able to launch. The last message to their families shows that family was still a priority, somehow (but not strangers, absolutely no emotional or ethical concerns about "others" at all).

Ultimately, it was aa really brutal thing to do to their parents, grandparents and siblings.
The degree of mental pain many suicidal people are in...is hard to understand, unless you've been close to it.

 

[CinNC]

This is a crazy question, but is there indisputable proof that K&B actually did commit these murders? I mean proof in terms of what RCMP has released so far.

What if K&B had a gun that was stolen from them? What if the murders were committed by whoever stole said gun from them? Who knows how many they had to start with. Perhaps two, and when they were left with one, they took turns committing suicide with the same gun?

What a plot twist if in their "deathbed confession" they state they are innocent. I doubt it but who knows with these two

I was just thinking the same thing. So far the only proof of anything is that they were driving LD's car, correct?

 

[CinNC]

Well, in that case, as the police officers on COPS often yell at the suspects, "Why'd you run?!"

The fact that police officers on COPS yell this at others just goes to prove it happens. I doubt that my question about them absolutely having committed the crimes has an affirmative answer. But if nothing else, following this has pushed my thinking out of the box.

 

[musicaljoke]

[...] Kam probably had a PAL, and his family was probably aware he had a license and guns, and were fine with it because it would be pretty normal to bring guns for safety in such a remote area (again, not blaming them).

I don't believe it is normal to bring guns when travelling along the northern highway like the suspects were. A PAL doesn't give carte blanche permission to use a gun for personal safety. Suggesting that it's allowed for protection against bears in the wilderness is not completely true. It's more like .. maybe .. depending on the circumstances.

There are people who work in wilderness areas who need a rifle for wildlife protection, but that situation doesn't apply to most people travelling along the northern BC highway, and likely not the suspects. They didn't even have a job yet, so could hardly justify needing it for work.

If the suspects were carrying their worldly goods, including their guns, because they were moving, it wouldn't be problem as long as they stored their guns properly in the vehicle. But if they said they were taking their guns in case they came across a bear, that could possibly be a problem.

Outside of hunting season, it's just not normal for many people to be driving with guns in their vehicles. But because it's all rather fuzzy, the parents may not have been alarmed by their sons wanting to take their rifles.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I've got two scenarios about how B and K left PA (and a few clues as to what the "triggers" were for their sudden homicidal trip, would love feedback):

1) They were sent off with cash and a fond good-bye from their families (with an open door to return any time they wished)

2) They were told they needed to get jobs, make some money, and get themselves out of the house, somehow (with the truck and camper being the stepping stone). If they decide to come back, there will be rules.

Since, where I live, #1 is certainly common enough, parents often do send along cash, as though the kids are going to summer camp in the Big World. But often, #2 is employed.

In both scenarios, the parents are trying to get the kids to launch. The kids are notably inexperienced in the real world (for B and K, not even a recent, real school experience and apparently very little work experience).

Both can be experienced by the teens as being "pushed out the door," but the 2nd is the more tough love approach (although still involves permission to take the truck).

Being sent out of a house which had electricity and a fine gaming computer to live in a camper (sure, it's your best buddy, but you're both used to having your own beds, rooms and real showers)... can feel jarring. If there's underlying mental disorder, that stress can really bring out the poor cognition.

We don't know for sure if drugs were involved, but sudden loss of a lifestyle that possibly included sleeping whenever one liked, gaming online, gaming outdoors, not much work-life, electricity, running water, someone else paying bills etc...might have been really been hard on one or both of them.

If both were suicidal and depressed before they ever left home, then once on the road everything seemed overwhelming and they became a ticking time bomb. If I were a betting person, I'd bet they had alluded to suicide, to each other, on more than one occasion before leaving PA.

The picture of BS with the gun in his mouth speaks to that. You could even say that rather than kill their parents/family members as some youths do, they struck out at "others:" those who were clearly able to launch. The last message to their families shows that family was still a priority, somehow (but not strangers, absolutely no emotional or ethical concerns about "others" at all).

Ultimately, it was aa really brutal thing to do to their parents, grandparents and siblings.

This is what I've been thinking the entire time. I strongly suspect both of them had been depressed and suicidal for several years. They could sort of keep it together in a structured environment. But once they were in a totally unfamiliar situation, with no structure, and only each other's negative perspective to rely on, they both went off the rails really fast. That article Moriarty posted on the profiles of young people who kill during a robbery or for seemingly no reason, stated that they usually have very little ability to handle stress.

To me, leaving a goodbye to their families could possibly indicate they probably felt at least some guilt for what they did in terms of how it would affect their families, or that they let their families down. We don't know what they said in the rest of the video so I don't think we can conclude whether they felt remorse for their victims or not.

The degree of mental pain many suicidal people are in...is hard to understand, unless you've been close to it.

I guess that's part of why (in addition to research I've posted) I don't agree with "they were always evil and destined to kill, and this couldn't have been stopped." I know enough viscerally speaking about depression and suicidal ideation to know that it can completely change a person and make them lose perspective, sometimes in ways others could not imagine, especially if it has gone on over many years. I know some people will get mad that I said that. But I've seen it happen a lot.

This is a crazy question, but is there indisputable proof that K&B actually did commit these murders? I mean proof in terms of what RCMP has released so far.

What if K&B had a gun that was stolen from them? What if the murders were committed by whoever stole said gun from them? Who knows how many they had to start with. Perhaps two, and when they were left with one, they took turns committing suicide with the same gun?

I was just thinking the same thing. So far the only proof of anything is that they were driving LD's car, correct?

It was confirmed they each killed themselves with a separate gun.

Overall, highly unlikely, especially given their known actions.

 

[Optics]

But my point here is that the fact that they left town with plenty of cash was known by someone close to the two. Who knew this, and how? (rhetorical question). It seems that it is the kind of info that the families would be privy to since they likely contributed, at the very least.

Bryer's great uncle who was appointed spokesman for the family said they left with significant cash, he saw Bryer the day before he left.

 

[webbie]

This is a crazy question, but is there indisputable proof that K&B actually did commit these murders? I mean proof in terms of what RCMP has released so far.

<modsnip: rude and personalizing>

You can request indisputable proof till the cows come home but RCMP will provide details when they're good and ready.

 

[CinNC]

Bryer's great uncle who was appointed spokesman for the family said they left with significant cash, he saw Bryer the day before he left.

Yes, I know this. If the great uncle knew it, the parents likely knew it, too, because they probably gave it to them to ensure they were OK on their trip. I brought it up because there was a long discussion on where they would have gotten the money to buy a gun or guns.

And my point was also that the RCMP may have known about a gun purchase right from the beginning since they may have purchased it at a gun store and had the means to do so. IF a gun purchase happened.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is a crazy question, but is there indisputable proof that K&B actually did commit these murders? I mean proof in terms of what RCMP has released so far.

What if K&B had a gun that was stolen from them? What if the murders were committed by whoever stole said gun from them? Who knows how many they had to start with. Perhaps two, and when they were left with one, they took turns committing suicide with the same gun?


I was just thinking the same thing. So far the only proof of anything is that they were driving LD's car, correct?

When police name suspects, they never disclose evidence. Ordinarily that’s presented by the Prosecution during the trial of the accused. But as the suspects are dead, we’re awaiting the RCMP to conclude their investigation at which time they committed to providing the public with additional information. There will be no trial or postmortem conviction. And as long as evidence proves they acted alone, that also concludes the RCMP investigation.

RCMP in British Columbia - Update – RCMP confirm cause of death and provide update on the Northern BC triple homicide investigations
“Investigators are now assessing all items located in Manitoba, along with the previous findings related to the three northern BC homicide investigations, in order to gain more clarity into what happened to Leonard Dyck, Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese. The assessment will review all the investigative findings to date, whether it is statements, evidentiary time lines, physical or digital evidence, and the BC RCMP have also have engaged our Behavioural Analysis Unit (BAU).

The BC RCMP commits that once we have completed that review within the next few weeks, we will be providing the families with an update with respect to the totality of the investigations and then releasing the information publicly....”

 

[webbie]

What if K&B had a gun that was stolen from them? What if the murders were committed by whoever stole said gun from them? Who knows how many they had to start with. Perhaps two, and when they were left with one, they took turns committing suicide with the same gun?

Methinks you're onto something there.
Why didn't I think of that?!!!

 

[Sillybilly]

If you can't discuss something according to The Rules, then don't even mention it.

One member brings in something they can't discuss under TOS but hint at it (hearsay or local gossip); next thing we not only have that violation but we have to read through pages and pages to find all responses to it. And that's just for one little TOS violation.

Y'all wonder why we get cranky.

 

[sprucetip]

I don't believe it is normal to bring guns when travelling along the northern highway like the suspects were. A PAL doesn't give carte blanche permission to use a gun for personal safety. Suggesting that it's allowed for protection against bears in the wilderness is not completely true. It's more like .. maybe .. depending on the circumstances.

There are people who work in wilderness areas who need a rifle for wildlife protection, but that situation doesn't apply to most people travelling along the northern BC highway, and likely not the suspects. They didn't even have a job yet, so could hardly justify needing it for work.

If the suspects were carrying their worldly goods, including their guns, because they were moving, it wouldn't be problem as long as they stored their guns properly in the vehicle. But if they said they were taking their guns in case they came across a bear, that could possibly be a problem.

Outside of hunting season, it's just not normal for many people to be driving with guns in their vehicles. But because it's all rather fuzzy, the parents may not have been alarmed by their sons wanting to take their rifles.

I don’t know, that’s exactly what I did when I moved up to the Yukon 20 years ago. My dad insisted I take a rifle, but then again I was kind of going to be living and guiding in the wilderness. So it made sense.

Also, he’s from Alberta haha, and a huge gun enthusiast. But I have to say, it’s come in handy to scare off bears!

But maybe coming from AB is totally different. People have said Vancouver is totally anti-gun is maybe it’s similar in PA? Maybe some local can comment?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don’t know, that’s exactly what I did when I moved up to the Yukon 20 years ago. My dad insisted I take a rifle, but then again I was kind of going to be living and guiding in the wilderness. So it made sense.

Also, he’s from Alberta haha, and a huge gun enthusiast. But I have to say, it’s come in handy to scare off bears!

But maybe coming from AB is totally different. People have said Vancouver is totally anti-gun is maybe it’s similar in PA? Maybe some local can comment?

Yeah maybe this is just my American perspective showing. I feel like in Alaska for example, probably almost everyone has guns (I actually looked it up and it says 61.7% of people in Alaska own guns).

 

[MistyWaters]

The fact that police officers on COPS yell this at others just goes to prove it happens. I doubt that my question about them absolutely having committed the crimes has an affirmative answer. But if nothing else, following this has pushed my thinking out of the box.

If you seen it on COPS is proof it happens? I doubt “why’d you run” is the first question unless the suspect needs to be interrogated quickly while handcuffed on the ground because it’s right before the commercial break.