Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[musicaljoke]

If Kam had actually been working at Walmart for several months as we speculated, he would have money. Or, maybe money he got for graduation. Or, sometimes young people have some money saved up over the years from birthday/Christmas presents.

Was Walmart their first employer? If not, they may have had summer jobs for the past couple of years.

 

[CanadianMade]

I've wondered if the delay was more on being unsure whether it was 1st or 2nd degree murder, but that's just an uneducated guess.

Could be, I guess. It's just seems odd because in the one press conference they even said that there wasn't enough for Crown to follow through with charges, but in that same press conference they also said they had substantial evidence to link both crimes, so what is this substantial evidence they already had and why wasn't it enough for charges? Just thinking with my finger tips again really.

 

[CanadianMade]

That's a very good Q about ballistics. Perhaps RCMP have more evidence for Mr. Dyke crime scene (tire tracks from Kam's Dodge, spent casings, etc) than CD and LF scene. Maybe the suspects got sloppy when they burned the truck.

Tire tracks maybe, but as I said, if they have to wait for ballistics to match to charge for Lucas and Chynna they would have had to wait for a match on ballistics if there were casings near Leonard as well.
Unless they just left one gun laying around there, but I am pretty sure we would have heard about that. The media would have eaten that right up.

ETA: Would tire tracks be enough even to charge them? How do they prove that they didn't just stop there for a bathroom break? Not saying that's what they did(I do think they killed LD), just asking the questions that pop up.

 

[mtnstream]

Tire tracks maybe, but as I said, if they have to wait for ballistics to match to charge for Lucas and Chynna they would have had to wait for a match on ballistics if there were casings near Leonard as well.
Unless they just left one gun laying around there, but I am pretty sure we would have heard about that. The media would have eaten that right up.

ETA: Would tire tracks be enough even to charge them? How do they prove that they didn't just stop there for a bathroom break? Not saying that's what they did(I do think they killed LD), just asking the questions that pop up.

If the suspects didn't leave casings at CD & LF scene, probably more difficult for ballistics. RCMP must have a lot more evidence from LD scene - otherwise they would not have charged suspects. MOO

 

[missy1974]

Tire tracks maybe, but as I said, if they have to wait for ballistics to match to charge for Lucas and Chynna they would have had to wait for a match on ballistics if there were casings near Leonard as well.
Unless they just left one gun laying around there, but I am pretty sure we would have heard about that. The media would have eaten that right up.

ETA: Would tire tracks be enough even to charge them? How do they prove that they didn't just stop there for a bathroom break? Not saying that's what they did(I do think they killed LD), just asking the questions that pop up.

But the 2 had LD's RAV4... I think that is the difference and made it easier to lay charges. It's pretty easy to place them at the scene since they were later seen driving it, more than once and it was found burned in MB.

 

[MistyWaters]

Tire tracks maybe, but as I said, if they have to wait for ballistics to match to charge for Lucas and Chynna they would have had to wait for a match on ballistics if there were casings near Leonard as well.
Unless they just left one gun laying around there, but I am pretty sure we would have heard about that. The media would have eaten that right up.

ETA: Would tire tracks be enough even to charge them? How do they prove that they didn't just stop there for a bathroom break? Not saying that's what they did(I do think they killed LD), just asking the questions that pop up.

I think the RCMP was waiting on DNA test results after processing the van. Even if they were able to prove the truck and camper was at the murder scene at some point during the night, it’d be necessary to prove both K&B were present. As the van was older and preowned, collecting and analyzing DNA could be a labor intensive process. Canada does not outsource DNA testing, unlike the US.

The murder of LD, other than his body, no vehicle or camping setup was at the murder scene so processing crime scene evidence was less complex. Possibly tire tracks and shoe prints, plus the stolen vehicle was enough to support probable cause.

One murder charge was enough to support the arrest of the two from out of province. It’s typical to see one charge laid and others charges follow even after the initial arrest. Police never name suspects prior to formal charges being filed with the court unless there is strong evidence already in place.

 

[CanadianMade]

But the 2 had LD's RAV4... I think that is the difference and made it easier to lay charges. It's pretty easy to place them at the scene since they were later seen driving it, more than once and it was found burned in MB.

Yeah and that is what I have said from the beginning. The RAV4 was what they were going on for the charges. However, if that is all they had, what is the substantial evidence they had to link both crimes? Tire tracks is not 'substantial' IMO

 

[musicaljoke]

Yeah, that's what I mean really. Just seems strange that they had enough to charge them with the other murder, but not theirs still. IMO this would mean that they had enough to charge for Leonard Dycks which I would also think means he was Not shot, otherwise they would be waiting on ballistics for that as well, would they not?
Every new bit of information(whether true or not, who knows) just seems to raise so many more questions for me.

I would be very reluctant to come to any of those conclusions. The RCMP needed the Crown to charge the suspects very quickly in order to set up the Canada wide arrest warrant and man hunt while the suspects were at large. Therefore the initial charge of murder was put in place posthaste.

Once the Canada wide warrant was in place, there was no need to post the additional murder charges until after the suspects were apprehended.

Since the suspects were found dead, there will be no additional murder charges.

So, it's not likely because the RCMP don't have evidence to support murder charges, but rather that it's for the prosaic reason that there was, and is, no clock drop urgency.

 

[Esprite]

I have male relatives with arsenals bequeathed them by other male relatives, both dead and alive. Usually not a girl thing. None for sale, and all are destined for younger family members. Some are registered; others not, but I'm told that they're working on it.

 

[MistyWaters]

But the 2 had LD's RAV4... I think that is the difference and made it easier to lay charges. It's pretty easy to place them at the scene since they were later seen driving it, more than once and it was found burned in MB.

And the Crown was in a position of having to lay at least one charge ASAP or police in Manitoba wouldn’t had cause to arrest K&B and return them to BC, even in the unlikely even the two voluntarily gave themselves up.

 

[musicaljoke]

And the Crown was in a position of having to lay at least one charge ASAP or police in Manitoba wouldn’t had cause to arrest K&B and return them to BC, even in the unlikely even the two voluntarily gave themselves up.

Yes, that's right. It would have been far faster to get the evidence and charges in order for the single murder, than for the double murder, so it makes sense that they followed the fastest route.

 

[missy1974]

Yeah and that is what I have said from the beginning. The RAV4 was what they were going on for the charges. However, if that is all they had, what is the substantial evidence they had to link both crimes? Tire tracks is not 'substantial' IMO

yeah... I get what you are saying... what amounts to 'substantial'? That, I don't know haha I agree that tire tracks wouldn't be enough... the only thing I can think of is ballistics, matching the bullets/casings/guns. It seems hard to believe that they weren't able to do that and charge them before they were found dead. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah and that is what I have said from the beginning. The RAV4 was what they were going on for the charges. However, if that is all they had, what is the substantial evidence they had to link both crimes? Tire tracks is not 'substantial' IMO

Then the deaths by suicide of K&B was revealed, BC RCMP said they were making no further comment until the investigation was concluded. It that occurs within two weeks, as was reported yesterday, hopefully we’ll learn all the answers soon.

 

[MistyWaters]

yeah... I get what you are saying... what amounts to 'substantial'? That, I don't know haha I agree that tire tracks wouldn't be enough... the only thing I can think of is ballistics, matching the bullets/casings/guns. It seems hard to believe that they weren't able to do that and charge them before they were found dead. JMO

Is there an advantage to charging suspects with all possible charges as quickly possible during an active manhunt? The RCMP had no way of knowing they would be found dead but I’m certain they hoped the two might willingly surrender. One formal murder charge is less heat than three, if that would’ve made a difference but of course it did not.

 

[NJSleuth91]

BTW, random question I thought of. Do you guys think the York Landing sighting was a deliberately false lead that the RCMP itself orchestrated, in case Kam and Bryer had access to a radio or something, in order to make them think the search effort wasn't as focused on Gillam so that they might slip up and be caught? Or am I reading into it too much?

 

[sandbar]

We don't even know what we don't know, you know?

K&B might have left something at the LD scene, that tied them to the murder, like maybe a phone with a recorded message saying "we did it".

Whatever it is, I'm certain it is more than just that K&B were driving the RAV4. That is possibly proof they stole the RAV, but it is definitely proof they were driving a stolen vehicle. Driving a stolen car, even stealing a car then driving it, is in no way evidence of a murder.

The RCMP have more information than we do, and at this point. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if the sequence, means, and motivation in the forthcoming report is right outta left field.

 

[Moriarty]

BTW, random question I thought of. Do you guys think the York Landing sighting was a deliberately false lead that the RCMP itself orchestrated, in case Kam and Bryer had access to a radio or something, in order to make them think the search effort wasn't as focused on Gillam so that they might slip up and be caught? Or am I reading into it too much?

I actually toyed with that idea too for a bit. If not hoping the two would hear about it on a radio, at the very least, by drawing searchers away so it was quieter around the Gillam area for a bit...

BUT, if this was some sort of planned exercise, I would think the RCMP would have said something as soon as the bodies were found because it really made that Indigenous watch group look incompetent and basically, like glory-seekers. And the RCMP wording at the time along the lines of 'no evidence to substantiate the sighting' would seem harsh if it was a clever ploy. The RCMP have a terrible track record when it comes to relations with Indigenous people and groups in Canada, and I don't think they would want to add to that bad blood.

 

[musicaljoke]

BTW, random question I thought of. Do you guys think the York Landing sighting was a deliberately false lead that the RCMP itself orchestrated, in case Kam and Bryer had access to a radio or something, in order to make them think the search effort wasn't as focused on Gillam so that they might slip up and be caught? Or am I reading into it too much?

I'm not sure. The thought had occurred to me also. But I also think that the RCMP may have been trying to keep the suspects contained in the bush by holding them there with dogs and armed officers. The RCMP never completely moved out of Gillam, even during the York Landing search.

 

[NJSleuth91]

We don't even know what we don't know, you know?

K&B might have left something at the LD scene, that tied them to the murder, like maybe a phone with a recorded message saying "we did it".

Whatever it is, I'm certain it is more than just that K&B were driving the RAV4. That is possibly proof they stole the RAV, but it is definitely proof they were driving a stolen vehicle. Driving a stolen car, even stealing a car then driving it, is in no way evidence of a murder.

The RCMP have more information than we do, and at this point. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if the sequence, means, and motivation in the forthcoming report is right outta left field.

They probably left forensic evidence everywhere.

 

[Esprite]

Has it been determined that the suicides were committed with rifles, and not handguns? If so, seems I missed that detail.