Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[Zella]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

The only thing I've been able to conclude from the hand in pocket thing is Kam must have been right-handed. Based on the photo of Bryer with the airsoft weapon, I assume he was also right-handed--or at least shot right-handed.

I am a lefty and tried to walk around with my left hand in my pocket and could barely walk. LOL It was horrible! It worked out okay for me to walk around with my non-dominant right hand in my pocket, though.

[Gruesome speculation; skip ahead if you're not up for it]
If they're both right-handed, it makes sense that the road worker gestured to indicate LF's left abdomen was wounded. His gesturing to indicate CD's right side of the face makes me wonder if they shot her from behind while she was running to get away from them.

Edited to add: That might explain why the damage was so bad that she couldn't have an open casket, if it were an exit wound.

 

[ktm44]

Do you really think that one of these two had a PAL to buy a rifle or:

a) the sighting at the gun shop ends up being unsubstantiated.

b) the gun shop was so eager for a sale that they sold a rifle without viewing a PAL?

A gun shop can't sell a rifle without a PAL and they actually won't pull it off a shelf for someone to look at until PAL has been reviewed. The transaction at a till can't be completed without because part of the transaction on the till requires PAL information being entered or the transaction will not complete.

I don't know if you've ever been to a sporting goods store to purchase a firearm but sales and showing firearms is somewhat of an ordeal. PAL is presented to inspect a firearm but if you purchase a firearm, a second employee double checks serial numbers on the box against the actual firearm, verifies the trigger lock is in place and someone walks the firearm to the till for purchase and walks it out to the parking lot.

My spouse owns several firearms and when he purchases something new, he tends to inspect something, wander the store and think about it for a bit and if he returns to the firearms counter, regardless of how many times the same employee has seen his PAL, they will ask to see it again before they take it off the shelf.

Employees of a sporting goods store that failed to follow protocol would be subject to serious fines, the store find an even greater amount, as well as the risk of losing their license to sell firearms.

Canadian Tire also sells firearms and I noticed that they go even further with their records. There is no law that Canadians have to register unrestricted long guns but they still keep their own ledger including the type of gun, serial number and PAL information.

There is a greater chance that a licensed dealer would go overboard on enforcement than shortcut.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The only thing I've been able to conclude from the hand in pocket thing is Kam must have been right-handed. Based on the photo of Bryer with the airsoft weapon, I assume he was also right-handed--or at least shot right-handed.

I am a lefty and tried to walk around with my left hand in my pocket and could barely walk. LOL It was horrible! It worked out okay for me to walk around with my non-dominant right hand in my pocket, though.

[Gruesome speculation; skip ahead if you're not up for it]
If they're both right-handed, it makes sense that the road worker gestured to indicate LF's left abdomen was wounded. His gesturing to indicate CD's right side of the face makes me wonder if they shot her from behind while she was running to get away from them.

You are perceptive! Also a lefty, just tried that experiment, same results.

 

[mtnstream]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

There's a quote about the suspects purchasing a hunting rifle. It's at the bottom of this article.

“I watched as the clerk shared his expertise and advised on the best cartridges to use, matched a hunting rifle to their budgets and made the sale,” he said.

https://www.vicnews.com/news/b-c-manhunt-suspects-left-cellphone-video-before-they-died-family/

 

[Zella]

You are perceptive! Also a lefty, just tried that experiment, same results.

I'm glad another lefty tried it and had similar results! I couldn't figure out if my result was just from being super uncoordinated or not.

But because of this case, I have started noticing more people walking around with one hand in their pocket, and it is usually their left hand.

I would love to know if this was a habit of Kam's.

 

[LoisLane]

I agree.

The course is relatively cheap (around $200) and definitely easy. It's one 8 hour day, typically. Kam had over a year to take it.

Owning an illegal weapon, on the other hand, is highly problematic. It's illegal. And you can't legally buy ammo.

If you're into shooting, and the legal option is open to you, then that's the way to go. Period.

Maybe they had a legal gun registered and also possessed another gun that is the same or takes the same ammo. The additional gun(s) could be stolen or purchased illegally or taken from someones inventory that they knew.

 

[mtnstream]

If Kam had actually been working at Walmart for several months as we speculated, he would have money. Or, maybe money he got for graduation. Or, sometimes young people have some money saved up over the years from birthday/Christmas presents.

Since we don't know much about Kam, and his family is well regarded in PA, I've wondered if Kam maybe helped his father at times, plus they have property, in a nice area, and that requires maintenance. Perhaps Kam did what a lot of teens do during high school, work odd jobs and help on projects - he could have made (and saved) money doing that.

 

[Moriarty]

I'm glad another lefty tried it and had similar results! I couldn't figure out if my result was just from being super uncoordinated or not.

But because of this case, I have started noticing more people walking around with one hand in their pocket, and it is usually their left hand.

I would love to know if this was a habit of Kam's.

You are perceptive! Also a lefty, just tried that experiment, same results.

Also a lefty and same result. Strange, I had never noticed that before. It felt like I was walking in the dark and waiting for something to hit me in the face.

 

[Zella]

Also a lefty and same result. Strange, I had never noticed that before. It felt like I was walking in the dark and waiting for something to hit me in the face.

It literally threw me off balance and made me unable to walk in a straight line. So, yeah, would be highly shocked if Kam was left-handed since he walked around like that with no apparent issues.

Also chuckling at how many other fellow sinister-handed folks are on here.

 

[CanadianMade]

I wonder why you said this:
"Makes more sense, though that is one more possible witness that we are choosing not to believe.
So which ones do we believe, and which ones do we not believe?
How does one decide?

Because I find it odd that people are willing to believe some of the witnesses out there but not all. They were basically rhetorical questions.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Ease up with the yuk-yuks. Some posts have been removed. The occasional light-hearted quip is okay but we don't want the families of either the victims or the alleged perps to be here reading frivolous post after frivolous post when their loved ones died in such a horrible fashion.

Thanks.

 

[CanadianMade]

The RCMP said yesterday they're not going to confirm any details until the report/update is out in a couple of weeks. So if he did go to them, it makes sense that we wouldn't necessarily know about it. Also, imagine the backlash the store would get. I wouldn't say anything to the public either.

I wonder what the background is on this witness though. Why did he remember two random teenagers? When did he realize it was Kam and Bryer? When did this all happen?

The one thing that throws me off of this thought is if he had gone to them and they knew what kind of guns they had, how were they never charged with Chynna and Lucas' deaths? They would know what kind of guns were used and if they were the same kind/s that were/was purchased, wouldn't that be enough to charge them? Or would they need the actual weapons themselves before they could do that?

 

[mtnstream]

I was searching for shops that sell firearms on Vancouver Island, there are quite a few, which isn't surprising as the area must have a lot of folks who fish and hunt. There are several Cabela's and Gone Fishin in that area (plus others). In the article about the firearm purchase, the "resident who spoke with the Alberni Valley News said he was on his way home to Port Alberni..." when he saw the purchase.

It's possible that Kam and Bryer were very familiar with the outdoors/fishing/firearms stores as they grew up in an outdoorsy environment, and were interested in those things.

I don't think it unusual that folks would be hesitant to come forward, it's not really good for business, and I imagine a lot of people are still in shock over what happened with the suspects. MOO

https://www.vicnews.com/news/b-c-manhunt-suspects-left-cellphone-video-before-they-died-family/

 

[mtnstream]

The one thing that throws me off of this thought is if he had gone to them and they knew what kind of guns they had, how were they never charged with Chynna and Lucas' deaths? They would know what kind of guns were used and if they were the same kind/s that were/was purchased, wouldn't that be enough to charge them? Or would they need the actual weapons themselves before they could do that?

Perhaps RCMP is waiting on ballistic tests, before they release new info.

 

[CanadianMade]

Perhaps RCMP is waiting on ballistic tests, before they release new info.

Yeah, that's what I mean really. Just seems strange that they had enough to charge them with the other murder, but not theirs still. IMO this would mean that they had enough to charge for Leonard Dycks which I would also think means he was Not shot, otherwise they would be waiting on ballistics for that as well, would they not?
Every new bit of information(whether true or not, who knows) just seems to raise so many more questions for me.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I was searching for shops that sell firearms on Vancouver Island, there are quite a few, which isn't surprising as the area must have a lot of folks who fish and hunt. There are several Cabela's and Gone Fishin in that area (plus others). In the article about the firearm purchase, the "resident who spoke with the Alberni Valley News said he was on his way home to Port Alberni..." when he saw the purchase.

It's possible that Kam and Bryer were very familiar with the outdoors/fishing/firearms stores as they grew up in an outdoorsy environment, and were interested in those things.

I don't think it unusual that folks would be hesitant to come forward, it's not really good for business, and I imagine a lot of people are still in shock over what happened with the suspects. MOO

https://www.vicnews.com/news/b-c-manhunt-suspects-left-cellphone-video-before-they-died-family/

I looked up how much a hunting rifle was at Gone Fishin and they range from $229-$1500. A gun person might know which are used for what and what B&K might've been interested in.

 

[Zella]

Yeah, that's what I mean really. Just seems strange that they had enough to charge them with the other murder, but not theirs still. IMO this would mean that they had enough to charge for Leonard Dycks which I would also think means he was Not shot, otherwise they would be waiting on ballistics for that as well, would they not?
Every new bit of information(whether true or not, who knows) just seems to raise so many more questions for me.

I've wondered if the delay was more on being unsure whether it was 1st or 2nd degree murder, but that's just an uneducated guess.

As to the news about the other missing men being found dead, I don't know that the timing/location matches KM's and BS's joyride, but at this point, nothing would surprise me.

All MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Maybe B&K purchased the rifle at a pawn shop.

This one in Nanaimo sells new and used firearms.
Nicolpawn > Firearms at Nicol Pawn

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Maybe B&K purchased the rifle at a pawn shop.

This one in Nanaimo sells new and used firearms.
Nicolpawn > Firearms at Nicol Pawn

 

[mtnstream]

Yeah, that's what I mean really. Just seems strange that they had enough to charge them with the other murder, but not theirs still. IMO this would mean that they had enough to charge for Leonard Dycks which I would also think means he was Not shot, otherwise they would be waiting on ballistics for that as well, would they not?
Every new bit of information(whether true or not, who knows) just seems to raise so many more questions for me.

That's a very good Q about ballistics. Perhaps RCMP have more evidence for Mr. Dyke crime scene (tire tracks from Kam's Dodge, spent casings, etc) than CD and LF scene. Maybe the suspects got sloppy when they burned the truck.