Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[Link Haze]

I don’t think it’s a matter of either of them being capable of carrying it out on their own.

This took no special skill, and required only a vehicle and a weapon.

I think it’s a matter of this never happening if these two weren’t together in the first place.

This probably started as a fantasy, and by bouncing ideas off of one another they came up with a tentative plan.

So alone, the one who came up with this fantasy first might have just killed himself, or done nothing at all.

The other probably wouldn’t have considered it to begin with.

Together they were a toxic mix.

I agree 100% on this.

 

[NJSleuth91]

But still the question of where did the money come from to buy all this?

If Kam had actually been working at Walmart for several months as we speculated, he would have money. Or, maybe money he got for graduation. Or, sometimes young people have some money saved up over the years from birthday/Christmas presents.

 

[Link Haze]

It’s the new thing.

People who would have otherwise killed themselves, decide to take their rage and frustration out on the world first.

They are inspired by the acts of others, especially as far as mass shooting events go.

These crimes aren’t that, but these guys seem to share a similar psychological profile.

It even starts to become a competition. To see if they can get more victims and notoriety than the last guy did.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I think it's quite obvious that Bryer had ideations of suicide all along.

It even starts to become a competition. To see if they can get more victims and notoriety than the last guy did.

There's no sign of that here, though. They easily could have added victims.

 

[tabitha111]

A video that really shows the "bug" issue at Sundance Manitoba...assuming this was when that station was open there *warning- language-can't blame em though*

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do you really think that one of these two had a PAL to buy a rifle or:

a) the sighting at the gun shop ends up being unsubstantiated.

b) the gun shop was so eager for a sale that they sold a rifle without viewing a PAL?

 

[catdctr]

Well there you go. I felt all along it was far easier to buy a legal gun than a stolen one. The great gun mystery is now solved.

Respectively I don't feel this solves the mystery. I don't think we can conclude 100 percent that they bought a gun at a store.

Easy to go to a store to see up close a gun you want and explore choices. Advisable. Then go out and seek a private sale of a previously owned gun. It is not like anyone policies this practice in Canada.

Firearms in Canada: How do you get a gun?

 

[tabitha111]

Do you really think that one of these two had a PAL to buy a rifle or:

a) the sighting at the gun shop ends up being unsubstantiated.

b) the gun shop was so eager for a sale that they sold a rifle without viewing a PAL?

I can't really explain why...just my hinky meter- but I am dubious about this report. It is just coming out now?? No one in the press posted this before? I mean its quite a scoop, isn't it? And no MSM have picked this up and run with it?

Plus, I really dont believe they had the money to do this. And two guns? hmmmmmm

 

[NJSleuth91]

How much does a rifle cost in Canada? Kam's family was well off. He probably had at least some money saved up. EDIT: I looked it up and it says "The average price of a gun in Canada is $564"...That's not THAT much especially for someone from a well off background.

I agree it's not 100% substantiated and seems pretty random in terms of timing. But it can't be ruled out and in some ways it makes the most sense.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I can't really explain why...just my hinky meter- but I am dubious about this report. It is just coming out now?? No one in the press posted this before? I mean its quite a scoop, isn't it? And no MSM have picked this up and run with it?

Plus, I really dont believe they had the money to do this. And two guns? hmmmmmm

That's sort of my feeling: if the gun shop came forward and said we sold them a gun (and we have video, or we have a PAL on record, etc.) it would be a scoop.

Just another "sighting" after all the false sightings though...these guys have been seen more places than Elvis. I'm skeptical.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Do you really think that one of these two had a PAL to buy a rifle or:

a) the sighting at the gun shop ends up being unsubstantiated.

b) the gun shop was so eager for a sale that they sold a rifle without viewing a PAL?

Chances of an illegal sale are zero, in my opinion. There's no way you would be in business long doing that.

And the report is pretty definite, in my view.

 

[Link Haze]

I think it's quite obvious that Bryer had ideations of suicide all along.


There's no sign of that here, though. They easily could have added victims.

No there isn't (thankfully). Just a statement in general to MassGuy's post. One thing that does stand out though, is the roughly 20-day manhunt. Not common in Canada.

 

[Moriarty]

Do you really think that one of these two had a PAL to buy a rifle or:

a) the sighting at the gun shop ends up being unsubstantiated.

b) the gun shop was so eager for a sale that they sold a rifle without viewing a PAL?

I can't really explain why...just my hinky meter- but I am dubious about this report. It is just coming out now?? No one in the press posted this before? I mean its quite a scoop, isn't it? And no MSM have picked this up and run with it?

I think it's wise to be cautious about this sighting...as has been posted already, why only now is it becoming public? Why keep that to yourself, when everyone in the area were talking about it for weeks? Unless, @SnooperDuper 's b) is the case.

Plus, I really dont believe they had the money to do this. And two guns? hmmmmmm

I don't think money would really be an issue, though. It would cost, what, $80 or $60 for the PAL, depending if they wanted restricted or non-restricted guns, and $80 for the course. These two could have combined their paycheques for two pay periods for probably close to$4,000 pre-tax. The harder part for these two would be passing the exam, I'd think. They seemed to have learning issues and likely concentration difficulties. Although, when you're keen on something, that desire can really keep you focused. If one or both had a PAL, that'd be known to LE.

They could have just as easily purchased a new or used gun online legitimately, or, as has been suggested, from someone locally and completely unrecorded anywhere.

EDIT: Sorry...meant two pay periods, not two weeks for their pay

 

[Moriarty]

In my opinion, given the sorts of interests these two seemed to have, it makes perfect sense that one or both of these guys would want to get a PAL as soon as they were old enough to apply on their own. It may not have even been for any nefarious purpose at the time, but simply because they thought of themselves as survivalists and some sort of Canuck commandos running around the woods.

 

[Zella]

Chances of an illegal sale are zero, in my opinion. There's no way you would be in business long doing that.

And the report is pretty definite, in my view.

Agreed about the store not doing an illegal sale. The gun store owners I know in America aren't going to jeopardize their ability to do business for a stranger, let alone a friend. I'd think with the strict rules in Canada, that would be even more true.

 

[OldFarmer]

You can find used guns at a gun store for a very reasonable price. You can get a used military style gun, like a Lee Enfield, for under $300, a used SKS for around $400. A brand new semi-automatic .22 for $300, a brand new centre fire, like a 30-06 for $500.

Also - in my experience it’s very easy to get a PAL, the course isn’t difficult, the test is an easy multiple choice test, it would be difficult to fail it. I took the course a year ago - my course was only two afternoons, not two full days (my neighbour just got his and his course was one full day). And I have a history of suicide and resultant hospitalization (after my husband died and I’m totally okay now!) Thankfully they’re tightening up the rules with regard to that, because yikes.

I do think that it’s reasonable to assume that Kam might have had his PAL (but, and I don’t know why, I never did imagine him going into a gun store and buying a gun.)

This is the course manual, it’s actually a really good source of information, I sure learned a lot and I highly recommend a read:

Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web

 

[NJSleuth91]

In my opinion, given the sorts of interests these two seemed to have, it makes perfect sense that one or both of these guys would want to get a PAL as soon as they were old enough to apply on their own. It may not have even been for any nefarious purpose at the time, but simply because they thought of themselves as survivalists and some sort of Canuck commandos running around the woods.

I agree. And Kam probably even seemed normal enough to get one. In fact, it's possible his parents even knew about it and were fine with it (again, NOT blaming them in any way, they had no idea). In that area I imagine gun ownership is common and maybe even considered to be a rite of passage. And since they were going up north it would make perfect sense for them to say they were getting a rifle for hunting or protection. I didn't think it was strange at all that they brought guns in the first place...if I was going to an area where the police were four hours away and had a gun license, I'd bring guns too.

Now if Bryer was allowed to have a gun license on the other hand...I mean, I'm sure he wanted one, but was he actually allowed to have one, is the question.

<modsnip: inappropriate content>

 

[FactFinder3000]

In my opinion, given the sorts of interests these two seemed to have, it makes perfect sense that one or both of these guys would want to get a PAL as soon as they were old enough to apply on their own. It may not have even been for any nefarious purpose at the time, but simply because they thought of themselves as survivalists and some sort of Canuck commandos running around the woods.

I agree.

The course is relatively cheap (around $200) and definitely easy. It's one 8 hour day, typically. Kam had over a year to take it.

Owning an illegal weapon, on the other hand, is highly problematic. It's illegal. And you can't legally buy ammo.

If you're into shooting, and the legal option is open to you, then that's the way to go. Period.

 

[gitana1]

It’s the new thing.

People who would have otherwise killed themselves, decide to take their rage and frustration out on the world first.

They are inspired by the acts of others, especially as far as mass shooting events go.

These crimes aren’t that, but these guys seem to share a similar psychological profile.

100%.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Now if Bryer was allowed to have a gun license on the other hand...I mean, I'm sure he wanted one, but was he actually allowed to have one, is the question.

Under Canadian law Kam could buy the gun and lend it to Bryer, as long as he stayed with him while he was using it. It would be perfectly legal.

"A licence is not necessary to borrow a firearm if the borrower remains under the direct and immediate supervision of a properly licensed adult aged 18 or older."

source: Firearm Owners and Users Aged 18 and Older - Royal Canadian Mounted Police