Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[Lalalacasbah]

Well, so much for all of our theories about the shady underground world of Vancouver Island gun buying.

Yep! Totally!

 

[Zella]

The PAL safety course is usually two days for unrestricted. It includes a hands on section. (In my area it’s two 8 hour days). Then a test that needs 80% (might be (85%) to consider it passed. Then you can fill out and send away your application, once the course instructor fills out their portion of it.
It’s another full day of instruction if you want to upgrade to restricted (RPAL) And new set of forms.
In order to go hunting you must take a CORE course. Around here that’s offered over a span of 2-5 days and also has a test that needs 80% or better to pass. Once you get your core number you can get your hunter ID number and then buy hunting licenses and tags.

Oh I hadn't realized there would be a test! (Again, I'm sure several of you Canadians have kindly explained this to us a bunch of times, but I never paid too much attention before. LOL)

Thank you for this great explanation!

 

[Jilleybeen]

Regarding the cell phone video recording: the article in The Star says they used “a cellphone” to record the message (other articles have misquoted The Star article and said “their cellphones”) ...my assumption would be that it was not a known cellphone of either BS or KM, but a pay-as-you-go/burner phone/TracFone. As was discussed in previous threads, they would have been able to make calls & connect to the web anonymously with such a phone, and not be tracked on their journey, correct? There was talk of the ease of obtaining one without necessarily showing ID.

Not that there is obvious evidence that they were online, but they could have accessed maps, checked the news, etc. as needed.

 

[Zella]

Regarding the cell phone video recording: the article in The Star says they used “a cellphone” to record the message (other articles have misquoted The Star article and said “their cellphones”) ...my assumption would be that it was not a known cellphone of either BS or KM, but a pay-as-you-go/burner phone/TracFone. As was discussed in previous threads, they would have been able to make calls & connect to the web anonymously with such a phone, and not be tracked on their journey, correct? There was talk of the ease of obtaining one without necessarily showing ID.

Not that there is obvious evidence that they were online, but they could have accessed maps, checked the news, etc. as needed.

Yeah I was kind of thinking a burner phone, too.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

You're right. But what about the killing of the professor, the one we know the most about, makes you think they feel remorse? If they felt remorse after the first two murders, would they have killed the kindly professor so viciously? If they feel sorry at all, which I doubt, it's for themselves. But leaving the body on the side of the road like garbage just to steal his car doesn't seem remorseful. It was purposefully cruel. You are a kind person who wants them to be redeemable and fixable. Not everyone can be fixed. Not every death is preventable. I hope I'm wrong

I agree. Sounds so self-indulgent and even that the words "last will and testament" (which I bet B&K actually said in the video) sounds melodramatic, woe is me and kinda ridiculous.

These two were living in their own, sad little dream world I'm thinking, oblivious to other people.

 

[NJSleuth91]

You're right. But what about the killing of the professor, the one we know the most about, makes you think they feel remorse? If they felt remorse after the first two murders, would they have killed the kindly professor so viciously? If they feel sorry at all, which I doubt, it's for themselves. But leaving the body on the side of the road like garbage just to steal his car doesn't seem remorseful. It was purposefully cruel.

I don't know if they felt remorse. I'm not clairvoyant. I said that I think they felt regret. That is a different thing. It could be regret that they hurt people, or just regret that they ruined their lives for no reason.

You are a kind person who wants them to be redeemable and fixable. Not everyone can be fixed. Not every death is preventable. I hope I'm wrong

I definitely think this was easily preventable given the amount of signs that were overlooked, and the research I've done on violence and how to stop it. As I've said, I don't think anyone will ever be able to convince me otherwise. Sorry. Even if someone is a sociopath (which I don't think they were for reasons which I have already described), most sociopaths are not killers, and there are ways to push them in a "pro-social" direction.

 

[scrappinkat]

To the comment about the Instagram post with Bryer, I assume that means they would check social media? Yes we kno

I’m not entirely sure. Officially they won’t say if they do or not, I think because using social media to vet anyone is a grey area because of privacy laws.

I do know earlier this year there was an RCMP public job posting for a position within the RCMP and the job duties were to be completely online, as in engrossing oneself in social media and various sites where firearms are the main subject. It paid darn well too.

 

[Zella]

So, I never posted this before because I thought it might sound creepy.

But the first thing I noticed about that infamous pic of BS proudly posing with his Airsoft rifle is he seemed to be maintaining proper trigger discipline. (He's not resting his finger on the trigger .) Might be something he either picked up in a firearms safety course or that Kam would have taught him, if he's the one who had the course. In my experience, people who have no training rest their fingers on the trigger mindlessly, which is a real safety hazard.

 

[Esprite]

A very interesting article, with some similarities to this case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...w-it-feels-to-kill-police-said/?noredirect=on

 

[scrappinkat]

One hunting rifle and maybe two handguns.

The handguns are harder to purchase, especially the first one. They need an upgrade to the PAL, to become an RPAL. You also need to provide proof that you are a current member of a sanctioned range. You need to provide the address of where the handgun will be keep. The CFO will issue an ATT (authorization to transport) once they are sure all requirements are being met. Until the shop owner sees or receives that ATT (specific to each individual firearm) they will not let you take a restricted firearm.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I’m not entirely sure. Officially they won’t say if they do or not, I think because using social media to vet anyone is a grey area because of privacy laws.

I do know earlier this year there was an RCMP public job posting for a position within the RCMP and the job duties were to be completely online, as in engrossing oneself in social media and various sites where firearms are the main subject. It paid darn well too.

Oh I'd love that job lol! I think there's a course at BCIT for digital forensics or something like that

So, I never posted this before because I thought it might sound creepy.

But the first thing I noticed about that infamous pic of BS proudly posing with his Airsoft rifle is he seemed to be maintaining proper trigger discipline. (He's not resting his finger on the trigger .) Might be something he either picked up in a firearms safety course or that Kam would have taught him, if he's the one who had the course. In my experience, people who have no training rest their fingers on the trigger mindlessly, which is a real safety hazard.

Ah good observation! Too bad they just didn't take a wilderness, hunting adventure... Sad thing is these two had their whole lives to acquire some skills to use in the right direction, unfortunate they took victims with them on their supposed suicide mission.

 

[NJSleuth91]

A very interesting article, with some similarities to this case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...w-it-feels-to-kill-police-said/?noredirect=on

I posted this a few days ago. There definitely seem to be some similarities.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but would either of them been able to do this alone? Maybe if the families were more clued in to their toxic relationship and separated them, none of this would have happened. I don't see them as cooperating with treatment, but neither one on his own would have been capable of carrying this out.

 

[scrappinkat]

WOW! I love the thoroughness of that. Thank you! I wish they would apply some of that for the FOID cards here.

You would probably appreciate the fact that every day each and every PAL holder is run through the system to double check they are still eligible to hold their PAL. Basically if you have a PAL when your name comes up as a result of absolute interaction you will be flagged and a member will decide if anything needs to be looked into by a local CFO air if not. For example a speeding ticket might get your name flagged but nothing will happen to your PAL as a result. If your name gets flagged as a result of an altercation that day then RCMP or CFO might be contacting you.

 

[Arizona 123]

Assuming the report of the gun store purchase is actually true, that leaves another conundrum; they were stopped and searched at the Split Lake alcohol checkpoint. How on earth could they get through a search if they had guns? I'm assuming the PAL holder could just flash his PAL, no big deal, but surely the officers would have mentioned the guns in their recounts of the incident?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but would either of them been able to do this alone? Maybe if the families were more clued in to their toxic relationship and separated them, none of this would have happened. I don't see them as cooperating with treatment, but neither one on his own would have been capable of carrying this out.

I doubt it. I think their relationship was a key part of it because they had an "us against the world" dynamic. I imagine they saw it kind of like the "militia" Bryer talked about, but with just two people in it. I don't think either of them would have done it without their negative energy feeding off each other.

However, their families probably saw their friendship as a positive thing. If your kid doesn't have a lot of friends but they have one really close friend that they've been friends with for over a decade, separating them is the last thing you would think of.

 

[mrjitty]

What the phone is actually doing is spying on your movements and logging them, then transmitting them after airplane mode is off. Not while it's on.

What is overlooked in these kinds of discussions is that the GPS data is passive. It's a weak radio signal from a satellite network. So your phone can receive that signal even if not connected to the network - e.g in an area of no coverage. The modern phone uses both GPS and the cellular tower network for more accurate location data. But especially with cached maps, you can still get some decent location function passively.

Your phone has multiple radios, Bluetooth, Wifi, Cellular, NFC, GPS

It seems airplane mode does not switch off GPS in newer phones. GPS is receive only, so that makes sense.

TLDR, the recovery of the phone likely reveals location data, even when the offenders were being forensically aware.

 

[scrappinkat]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but would either of them been able to do this alone? Maybe if the families were more clued in to their toxic relationship and separated them, none of this would have happened. I don't see them as cooperating with treatment, but neither one on his own would have been capable of carrying this out.

I don’t think anyone except family members really has enough knowledge of either one to know the answer. And I assume that question is something that family members will be asking themselves, and second guessing every decision they ever made, for a good many years to come.

 

[Zella]

Assuming the report of the gun store purchase is actually true, that leaves another conundrum; they were stopped and searched at the Split Lake alcohol checkpoint. How on earth could they get through a search if they had guns? I'm assuming the PAL holder could just flash his PAL, no big deal, but surely the officers would have mentioned the guns in their recounts of the incident?

I think they took the time to hide them. Also, my understanding is they were not searched. They were stopped and questioned and constables looked in but didn't actually physically search the vehicle.

One of the weirder details I ever read in those whole weird stew of a case was that they drove through the checkpoint slowly and then stopped some point ahead.

On the surface, it sounds like the exact opposite of what two teenaged yahoos would do on a murder spree.

But I think they realized they were going to have to stop and decided it was better to "miss" the checkpoint and quickly hide the most incriminating stuff but not obviously blow past it quickly and not stop. Then they could just keep apologizing and plead ignorance after the constables caught up with them after they had stopped and hid whatever. I doubt it would have stood up to a search. I suspect there may have been 2 more victims if the constables had actually searched the vehicle rather than just giving them the once-over.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

 

[KR72]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Wish more of these people who want to commit suicide but want to know what it feels like to kill others first would try it the other way around for once!

There's nothing more angering than people who must take others out with them. If BS and KM would have left out the murder part of their little adventure, they wouldn't be more than a blip on the local news cycle - if that, since media doesn't always report on suicides.