Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[SnooperDuper]

Planning = premeditation. As the two were originally charged with 2nd degree murder of LD, we don’t know if there’s evidence the other two murders were premeditated.

Otherwise it’s just not true that anyone present is guilty of murder if they didn’t participate.

Execution of the crime = participation.

 

[sandbar]

I get that about small towns--I live in a town much smaller than Port Alberni, actually. But the small-town vibe hasn't stopped people from talking negatively about Bryer.

Do you mean that you live in a smaller town near PA, and that ppl there are talking negatively? Or, just a smaller town in general and that ppl there are talking negatively?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

SBM

Yep. When I heard Kam and Bryer were found dead together, I immediately thought of Bonnie's poem and the line about how they would end: "Go down together."

I don't think either one of these two were interested in what others thought or knew about them. Their lack of active social media use in general points to that. MOO

Living in their own world. Definitely like that Heavenly Creatures story you mentioned.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread reply bans have been issued to some members who have been bickering.

If more rudeness, personalizing or bickering ensues, board TOs will be issued and/or we can close the discussion thread and leave Media only thread *No Discussion* open until more MSM comes out on the case.

 

[Zella]

Do you mean that you live in a smaller town near PA, and that ppl there are talking negatively? Or, just a smaller town in general And that ppl there are talking negatively?

I meant that I live in a town much smaller than Port Alberni, so I get the idea that small towns can be very protective of their own since that's my lived experience.

However, people in Port Alberni have still talked negatively about Bryer, so I don't think all of it can be attributed to the town just not talking to protect the suspects' families.

People in my little town don't seem to know anything about this case, probably because I live over 2,000 miles away.

MOO

 

[sandbar]

I meant that I live in a town much smaller than Port Alberni, so I get the idea that small towns can be very protective of their own since that's my lived experience.

However, people in Port Alberni have still talked negatively about Bryer, so I don't think all of it can be attributed to the town just not talking to protect the suspects' families.

People in my little town don't seem to know anything about this case, probably because I live over 2,000 miles away.

MOO

Thanks for answering

 

[MistyWaters]

I get that about small towns--I live in a town much smaller than Port Alberni, actually. But the small-town vibe hasn't stopped people from talking negatively about Bryer.

Is there anyone who lives in your town who’s a family member though? That’s where the difference is. It’s always easy for people to speculate when they don’t know any of the people directly involved.

ETA -
Nobody in that community wanted this to have happened nor do they want to identified as a place where troubled teens fall through the cracks.

“Those are two individuals who made a misstep somewhere in their lives,” she said. “The rest of us are trying to do the best we can and be as kind as possible. From my perspective those two boys were lost. They were lost somewhere and the safety net wasn't there.”.....

....“At this point, we don't want to speculate on what it is or is not,” she said. “We know as a community we have work to do, like other communities.”.

Mayor of Port Alberni, home of murder suspects, urges patience and understanding

 

[Zella]

Thanks for answering

Haha I'm glad you asked, actually. I just went back and reread that original post of mine, and it was super vague. Am going to edit it so it makes more sense!

 

[Ooohm]

Oh stewardess, I speak Canadian. "Very considerate" can mean anything, or nothing at all. If Kam had been described as someone who tried to improve the health of the marine environment around Port Alberni, or read to lonely patients in the hospital, that would be meaningful to his character.
A coffee shop describing a customer as very considerate could be nothing more than someone receiving a cheeky smile and twinkling eyes when they didn't expect it. Easy peasy to do that, when you want to make a good impression.

 

[Zella]

Is there anyone who lives in your town who’s a family member though? That’s where the difference is. It’s always easy for people to speculate when they don’t know any of the people directly involved.

Yeah sorry my original post was confusing. I live in the U.S., so I don't know anybody who knows these people, and nobody where I live even seems aware of this case except for me. My point was simply that I live in a small town myself, so I get the idea that small towns can protect their own. However, that small town aspect of Port Alberni has not stopped people in Port Alberni from talking negatively about Bryer in interviews. So sorry for the confusion! I edited my original post for clarity.

MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yeah but they were gamers and spent a lot of time on the internet. That's why I would imagine if they were planning to have notoriety, they would have used that to their advantage, and played up the "killer duo" thing with cryptic posts to each other beforehand, etc.

The hardcore gamers I've met aren't really into social media and being "social" on FB or IG or in real life, they're kinda hermits - but that's my experience. When I said internet I meant more YouTube and maybe *advertiser censored*, not really the social internet. I think them not participating in online social life was their way of being a bit "beyond" all that, elitist in a way.

They were already in the woods by the time most of that stuff came out. I don't think the co-op footage even came out until after they were in the woods.

But they knew very well dead bodies on the side of a tourist destination highway weren't going to go unnoticed and they'd be news. If they didn't want news, they would've concealed with branches/leaves or dragged into the woods. These guys weren't world/practical smart but they grew up on computers, they knew the media would report it.

They were 70 miles from the nearest civilization, so there definitely wasn't cell reception. And since we don't know what was in the video, we don't know if it was meant to be a public statement, or just for the people who knew them.

Had they been wandering around Winnipeg commiting murders with reception, I bet there would've been more recording, JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I meant that I live in a town much smaller than Port Alberni, so I get the idea that small towns can be very protective of their own since that's my lived experience.

However, people in Port Alberni have still talked negatively about Bryer, so I don't think all of it can be attributed to the town just not talking to protect the suspects' families.

People in my little town don't seem to know anything about this case, probably because I live over 2,000 miles away.

MOO

Other than the woman who lived near the grandmothers house who must’ve had a lineup of reporters as her name is everywhere, I seem to recall most of the comments about B were from others his age? I could be wrong though.

 

[Zella]

Other than the woman who lived near the grandmothers house who must’ve had a lineup of reporters as her name is everywhere, I seem to recall most of the comments about B were from others his age?

Yes, it seems like mostly his peers.

 

[acutename]

I understand those niceties. However, it would still be a matter of deliberation for the RCMP to try and ascertain exactly who shot whom.

Did Bryer shoot the three and Kam watched?

Did Kam shoot the three and Bryer watched?

Did Kam shoot Miss Deese and Bryer shoot Mr Fowler?

Did they both have a shot into each of the victims?

Which one shot Prof Dyck ? one, the other, or both?

Questions that , for the sake of laying the case down may never be answered , but I doubt that would stop the RCMP from trying every angle to get a consensus on those kind of questions.

That both would have taken the rap regardless of who did in fact murder whom is now void, since no trial will be held.

there may very well be ballistics evidence for all the scenes
including the suicide, that will point to some scenario

 

[MistyWaters]

The hardcore gamers I've met aren't really into social media and being "social" on FB or IG or in real life, they're kinda hermits - but that's my experience. When I said internet I meant more YouTube and maybe *advertiser censored*, not really the social internet. I think them not participating in online social life was their way of being a bit "beyond" all that, elitist in a way.

.

Somewhere iirc the two were users of Stream and Twitch which appears to be a sort of gaming host involving different games. Both appear to offer communities including chat. Maybe this is why gamers are not active users of other SM such as FB, Twitter or IG?

I’m betting game chats by B&K would be of great interest to the investigation.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yeah sorry my original post was confusing. I live in the U.S., so I don't know anybody who knows these people, and nobody where I live even seems aware of this case except for me. My point was simply that I live in a small town myself, so I get the idea that small towns can protect their own. However, that small town aspect of Port Alberni has not stopped people in Port Alberni from talking negatively about Bryer in interviews. So sorry for the confusion! I edited my original post for clarity.

MOO

Recall the NYT article where locals were putting forth a theory that LD had killed LF and CD, and that BS and KM had killed him in self-defence and had then been killed by vigilantes in Manitoba. That's pretty protective.

In a small town, everyone knows your business, and I am surprised that more people had not offered opinions on BS and KM and their families.

When I lived in a small town the number one small talk topic was not the weather but where your relatives were last spotted in town. "Hi, I just saw you mom at the grocery store"...that sort of thing. My sister-in-law was from a big city and it took her a long to adjust to coming "straight home from work" only for my brother to have already heard of her entire itinerary around town before she got there.

 

[sandbar]

The hardcore gamers I've met aren't really into social media and being "social" on FB or IG or in real life, they're kinda hermits - but that's my experience. When I said internet I meant more YouTube and maybe *advertiser censored*, not really the social internet. I think them not participating in online social life was their way of being a bit "beyond" all that, elitist in a way.

I've heard too, that through Twitch and/or Steam you can talk to people using your headset mike. Kinda like hitech tin cans on a string.

 

[Zella]

there may very well be ballistics evidence for all the scenes
including the suicide, that will point to some sceario

I agree. Also, I noticed on the charges paperwork that someone uploaded a few pages back, there was specific mention of DNA.

Here's a link to the same paperwork from a Canadian reporter.
Joanna Chiu 趙淇欣 on Twitter

It says mandatory DNA on the second page and then on the third page a box for DNA is checked.

I assume it means DNA was found at the crime scene, and if the two suspects had been brought in alive, they would have had to give a DNA sample? Anyone with experience looking at Canadian court paperwork have insight/thoughts?

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Execution of the crime = participation.

I was too slow with my ETA on my post which you quoted.

ETA - one murder, a swarming outside a nightclub - 4 defendants. The outcome - 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter conviction for 3 of them and the 4th was acquitted.
Link - post #340.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

A very sobering, jolting "wake up" for me.

I always find the crimes I've followed on WS are much more worse than the public are led to believe by what we read in the media.

After time passes and the nitty gritty details come out in court or wherever, they're always much more savage than imagined.

We get a one liner - "victim was stabbed" but they don't tell you how many times, if organs exposed, the time it took, etc. I won't be more graphic but yeah, it really becomes more emotional and devastating to hear.