Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[SnooperDuper]

I agree. Also, I noticed on the charges paperwork that someone uploaded a few pages back, there was specific mention of DNA.

Here's a link to the same paperwork from a Canadian reporter.
Joanna Chiu 趙淇欣 on Twitter

It says mandatory DNA on the second page and then on the third page a box for DNA is checked.

I assume it means DNA was found at the crime scene, and if the two suspects had been brought in alive, they would have had to give a DNA sample? Anyone with experience looking at Canadian court paperwork have insight/thoughts?

MOO

No I think it is that they were charged with a crime where it is mandatory for the convict to provide DNA to the national database upon conviction.

Canadian Criminal Sentencing/Ancillary Orders/DNA Orders - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

I believe that the RCMP would still have to get a warrant to get their DNA for crime scene analysis, meaning DNA would not be the first sort of evidence they would be looking at, and RCMP would have to have cause (other evidence) in order to seek it.

 

[Jen-Knee]

Idk, most of the gamers I know are very active on social media and are pretty social. Those who aren't, in my experience, are those who suffer from things like depression and/or social anxiety, or are older (retirement age and unable to get around themselves).

 

[MistyWaters]

Recall the NYT article where locals were putting forth a theory that LD had killed LF and CD, and that BS and KM had killed him in self-defence and had then been killed by vigilantes in Manitoba. That's pretty protective.

In a small town, everyone knows your business, and I am surprised that more people had not offered opinions on BS and KM and their families.

When I lived in a small town the number one small talk topic was not the weather but where your relatives were last spotted in town. "Hi, I just saw you mom at the grocery store"...that sort of thing. My sister-in-law was from a big city and it took her a long to adjust to coming "straight home from work" only for my brother to have already heard of her entire itinerary around town before she got there.

Talking to the media is much different than local neighbourhood gossip. It becomes a matter of loyalty to the community in general. Nobody wants the reason the only public interest in their town is because a couple of murderers came from there.

 

[Zella]

No I think it is that they were charged with a crime where it is mandatory for the convict to provide DNA to the national database upon conviction.

Canadian Criminal Sentencing/Ancillary Orders/DNA Orders - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

I believe that the RCMP would still have to get a warrant to get their DNA for crime scene analysis, meaning DNA would not be the first sort of evidence they would be looking at, and RCMP would have to have cause (other evidence) in order to seek it.

That makes sense--thank you!

 

[SnooperDuper]

I was too slow with my ETA on my post which you quoted.

ETA - one murder, a swarming outside a nightclub - 4 defendants. The outcome - 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter conviction for 3 of them and the 4th was acquitted.
Link - post #340.

I think what's different in the Millard/Smich [Bosma] case and the murder of LD is that there was a robbery/theft, in both cases for a vehicle. One may have killed but both got in the vehicle and drove it away...that's what ties two suspects to a murder by one. With CD and LF, a relative said that "most" of their possessions were in the van, meaning some were not, so it is the same situation again.

 

[LoisLane]

I skimmed the CTV news and didn't see anything with AS's lawyer. Anyone else have any luck?

Painfully made it through to a segment with the lawyer but it was an unrelated case. Not her case either.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think what's different in the Millard/Smich [Bosma] case and the murder of LD is that there was a robbery/theft, in both cases for a vehicle. One may have killed but both got in the vehicle and drove it away...that's what ties two suspects to a murder by one. With CD and LF, a relative said that "most" of their possessions were in the van, meaning some were not, so it is the same situation again.

I agree, plus the 2nd degree charge for the murder of LD was required in order to issue a warrant for arrest when it became known the suspects had fled out of province. There was hustle happening, for good reason if the two had been arrested, voluntarily or otherwise. Had the investigation ran it’s normal course, if they’d crossed paths with LD earlier, the charges may’ve been upgraded to 1st degree/premeditation, similar to Millard/Smich.

But I think it would be difficult for any relative of C&L to know what possessions they took with them since they weren’t there when they departed. Since the time the RCMP initially mentioned the motive may never be known, I hope they’ve gained further insight at least to offer the victims families a few more answers.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Painfully made it through to a segment with the lawyer but it was an unrelated case. Not her case either.

Thanks for taking one for the team, anyway....

I feel like we're about due for a new development. We've been getting one every, like, five days, right?

 

[SovereignSnake]

His untimely death may not have been due to gunfire, which doesn't mean a gun wasn't fired at him, and bullets didn't invade his body.

There is no reason at all to suppose that the only manner of death these people suffered, taken by surprise, entirely unexpectedly was from gunfire.

There is no reason to believe that Kam and Bry didn't get right up close to their victims at some stage, and used other methods of inflicting deathly injury IN ADDITION to disabling gunfire.

There are a lot of factors which make up the category of 'brutally murdered' and it is significant that nothing was singled out AT THIS STAGE to label his death.

It isn't a matter of either /or, it's a matter of exactly what. Why would be a relief to know, but that is a very long odds bet of finding out.

But remember when asked at one of the press conferences if there were shell casings (six as I recall found with Deese and Fowler) at the scene where Leonard's body was discovered and if he was shot the Assistant Commissioner completely deflected the question. I would like to think if Leonard was shot they would have come out with that smoking gun immediately. We also still have no evidence that Bryer and Kam had anything to do with the deaths of Chynna and Lucas. However, yes I do hope when the final report comes out the RCMP will reveal ballistics for the guns found with the boys in Sundance and if there is a match to what kind of gun was used on Deese and Fowler. We still don't even know if they were killed with a handgun or a rifle. I also trust they will finally reveal how Leonard was actually killed. Then I think we'll have a much clearer picture of what did and did not go on here. Pinning all three murders on Kam and Bryer is the easy way out and I don't think this case is that cut and dry. I'm not saying it's not possible but I won't pass that judgement until I see the evidence and the final report.

 

[ktm44]

I see that AS is still insisting that , despite the RCMP refusal, he wants to see that video of his son's 'last will and testament'.

Maybe the RCMP are with withholding it from Alan because Bryer said so , said he didn't want Alan to see it on that Video clip.

It isn't always the heavy hand of officialdom that prevents people from having what they want.

I think you're pretty close to the truth. It's my understanding that some were shown an approximate 30 second clip. That's not much time so I would think that it's very likely Kam and Breyer spoke to specific people and the RCMP showed segments to those specifically named.

I would think that Kam likely left a message for his parents but I would wonder who Breyer would speak to. His grandmother seems to be the most logical because he was most recently living with her but if his message were more generic, I would suspect that his mother was likely his legal guardian and it would have been shown to her.

I don't think Breyer would have had time in 30 seconds to specifically exclude his father but given the fact that his father had not been involved for most of his life, he may have simply not left any specific message for him. If he wasn't named, the RCMP would have no reason to show him anything.

I'm not convinced that the segments heard are as much a 'last will and testament' as the final words to their loved ones.

I feel sorry for Kam and Breyer's families. They've had their lives torn apart and I honestly feel sorry for AS. He's also struggling to come to terms with this and understandably looking for answers but I don't think the answers he's looking for are in within the recording.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I think this speculation that Bryer requested his father not see the video is completely without basis.

The RCMP stated that Bryer's body was released to Bryer's mother as she was the next of kin.

The video contained instructions for what Bryer wanted done with his body, so that was why they showed it to his mother when they did. They showed it to the person who was given control of the body, because it had instructions for what was to be done with the body.

 

[Arizona 123]

With respect to the burnt truck and the collapsed roof, the closest comparison I could find was this:

Google Image Result for https://i.cbc.ca/1.2208685.1382592093!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/bentley-camper-cp-5707240.jpg

This was in the Clearwater/Wells Gray, B.C. area, near where the Johnson and Bentley families were murdered in 1982. Their murderer was David Shearing. The truck was found in October 1983. Shearing had tried to run the truck down a steep embankment into a canyon, but it became high-centred on a log. He burnt it, as he had done previously with the victims' car. It had also been found burnt in a wooded area.

Shearing had fled to a new coal mining town, Tumbler Ridge, which was under construction. He was arrested there in November 1983. Tumbler Ridge is about an hour south of Chetwynd, B.C., and about 75 minutes southwest of Dawson Creek.

The truck had a camper on the back.

Thank you very much for this!
This is the first burned truck image I've seen (and I've seen plenty) that matches what we see in the burned McLeod truck, including the inward-warped cab cornerposts.

The truck in your image was going downhill, and high framed on a log.... I wonder; if the impact speed was enough, would that cause the camper shell to lurch forward and damage the cab like that? If so, I suspect the McLeod truck was going pretty quick when it reached its burn spot, and encountered either a ditch or a rock.

If not, then it looks like a burning camper shell can do that to a truck.

 

[Moriarty]

how long do you think it took to search through that van at night (after 11:30pm) ...with what? flashlights? Were the van's interior lights working? some how I imagine them not working, but I could be totally wrong. Possibly they had some of CD's and LF's property with them later which would tie them to the scene, though CD's brother said most of the possessions were left in the van.

Not sure you got an answer to your questions...I’m on my phone and it’s a lot harder scrolling through posts I missed.

I have no idea what sort of boxes/bags/backpacks Lucas and Chynna may have brought for their trip or how long it would take to go through it all. I suspect the murderers panicked and fled pretty quickly after the shootings. They did take the wallets and cash but didn’t find Chynna’s hidden passport.

They may have used flashlights but it wouldn’t have been completely dark. The sun sets at 10:30ish mid-July there but it doesn’t get totally dark that time of year...I think it’s called Nautical Twilight. It would be difficult to see but not pitch black.

 

[sandbar]

Painfully made it through to a segment with the lawyer but it was an unrelated case. Not her case either.

Took it for the team, thanks Champ...

 

[sandbar]

I think you're pretty close to the truth. It's my understanding that some were shown an approximate 30 second clip. That's not much time so I would think that it's very likely Kam and Breyer spoke to specific people and the RCMP showed segments to those specifically named.

I would think that Kam likely left a message for his parents but I would wonder who Breyer would speak to. His grandmother seems to be the most logical because he was most recently living with her but if his message were more generic, I would suspect that his mother was likely his legal guardian and it would have been shown to her.

I don't think Breyer would have had time in 30 seconds to specifically exclude his father but given the fact that his father had not been involved for most of his life, he may have simply not left any specific message for him. If he wasn't named, the RCMP would have no reason to show him anything.

I'm not convinced that the segments heard are as much a 'last will and testament' as the final words to their loved ones.

I feel sorry for Kam and Breyer's families. They've had their lives torn apart and I honestly feel sorry for AS. He's also struggling to come to terms with this and understandably looking for answers but I don't think the answers he's looking for are in within the recording.

30-seconds is a standard length of an oldschool TV commercial. You can fit a LOT in.

 

[Jan424]

SBM

I was watching a livestream of Canadian news on YouTube where the journalist said some coffee shop staff at a place he frequented called Kam "very considerate." I found that interesting wording from service staff, simply because I've been in the service industry and wouldn't even describe super nice/favorite customers as "very considerate." Polite? Yeah. Nice? Sure. But I found "very considerate" an interesting choice of words.

And there's been more than a couple of friends who have commented on Kam--more like several--though yes as a general rule they seem to focus more on him being friendly/likable than anything else. Each article seems to interview a different friend. LOL

MOO

Ah yes the coffee shop staffer is the person I thought said polite.... so it was “considerate” instead. Without any examples of why that word would be used, it’s all guesswork here. Could be their way of saying polite. It’s been said Kam didn’t have a lot of friends so not sure how many really did know him...being described as friendly doesn’t tell us much. He was clearly quite a bit more than friendly. But that’s JMO

 

[Jan424]

I think out of respect for the all the Port Alberni families, local people who speak to the media are often inclined to either say nothing or say as little as possible in a mildly positive way. In a tragedy such as this, it’s not helpful to the families horrible grief they’re suddenly forced to deal with if local people yap to the media telling the world how poorly everyone thought of their children prior to July 12th. Smaller places have a way of connecting to help their own heal. I admire their silence. It seems to be the sort of place where people respect one another.

BBM

Mayor of Port Alberni, home of murder suspects, urges patience and understanding
“It has been a difficult few weeks for the community,” Minions said. “From the teens being missing to it being released they are suspects, the search, and now this part of the conclusion. This is definitely not what we had hoped for in terms of an outcome. A lot of people in the community have struggled with how to handle the news.”

She said there is concern for the local relatives of McLeod and Schmegelsky, the families of the victims and the impact the ordeal has had on people and communities across Canada.....”

Yes, this would make sense on many levels in PA.

 

[Jan424]

Other than the woman who lived near the grandmothers house who must’ve had a lineup of reporters as her name is everywhere, I seem to recall most of the comments about B were from others his age? I could be wrong though.

I think also the deli shop person who said Bryer never paid for the butter chicken he left with ... but, otherwise, I think most were from people his age. I could be wrong too tho.

 

[Jan424]

Recall the NYT article where locals were putting forth a theory that LD had killed LF and CD, and that BS and KM had killed him in self-defence and had then been killed by vigilantes in Manitoba. That's pretty protective.

In a small town, everyone knows your business, and I am surprised that more people had not offered opinions on BS and KM and their families.

When I lived in a small town the number one small talk topic was not the weather but where your relatives were last spotted in town. "Hi, I just saw you mom at the grocery store"...that sort of thing. My sister-in-law was from a big city and it took her a long to adjust to coming "straight home from work" only for my brother to have already heard of her entire itinerary around town before she got there.

Also, isn't Kam's father a business owner in PA? Maybe he is well liked and respected, and people (particularly other business owners) just don't want to offer any information, especially to the media. JMO

 

[KR72]

From what I remember, there was only one person through the whole thing, a survival expert that was interviewed before the bodies were found that who said what needed to be said and told these two to turn themselves in, what they had done was horrific and that they were an embarrassment to the the country.

I don't recall anyone else using any sort of "harsher" language in the media about these two suspects at all.