Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[MistyWaters]

In order for it to be 1st degree murder it must be shown that the murder was "planned and deliberate." Not just the robbery, but the actual murder. That can be very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yes, perhaps the confusion arises because it seems premeditation can be proven to have occurred in an instant in the US, but that’s not so in Canada.

After choosing to steal the RAV4, indeed they may have intended to murder the driver (2nd degree) but it’s much harder to prove the two planned and deliberately set out to specifically murder LD (1st degree), somebody who they didn’t appear to have any connection with. It’s how our laws are in Canada, not that I think it’s right.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/what...-2nd-degree-murder-and-manslaughter-1.5068520
1st-degree murder
Definition: A homicide that is both planned and deliberate. An example of this is a contract killing.

Some homicides are automatically considered first-degree murder:

• The killing of an on-duty police officer or prison employee.
• A killing committed during a hijacking, sexual assault, kidnapping, hostage taking, terrorism, intimidation, criminal harassment. Any offence committed on behalf of a criminal organization.

2nd-degree murder
Definition: Generally, a deliberate killing that occurs without planning and does not fall under any of the categories of first degree murder.

Manslaughter
Definition: A homicide committed without intent, although there may have been an intention to cause harm. There are two broad categories of manslaughter:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/what...-2nd-degree-murder-and-manslaughter-1.5068520

 

[Sillybilly]

Bumping my previous post for those who may have missed it:

These two young men don't fit into the category of either mass killers or serial killers, and at this time it is not possible to definitively classify them as spree killers until more information comes to light from LE.

Please move on from this particular discussion so as not to derail the thread with information that may not be relevant.

 

[CanadianMade]

plus, most people who have to wear a mask like that do not find it comfortable or funny; it is an unpleasant but necessary part of a dangerous job, and here he is sporting it for fun

I personally think the gas mask is just something that falls under what can be called an edgy 'trend'. It's all the rage these days. It has even been used on runways in fashion shows in the past.

 

[Jan424]

Just a quick mention from yesterday that Lifetouch takes grad portraits for the Alberni school district in December. The Lifetouch schedule is consistent from year to year.

Grad - Home - Alberni District Secondary School

Perhaps a grad portrait (head shot) was taken of Kam by Lifetouch at some point, but then the graduation photo taken outdoors was taken by his parents in June? JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

I do not qualify as a camo expert at all, but have seen camo for sale and it is supposed to "match" the environment- thus desert camo is grayish brown, light; mossy oak is kind of like spring in the forest- some light green, some grayish brown like trees. BS's camo looks highly pixilated to me and not something I have seen- does it match summer in BC or in Manotoba?

Here's why some militaries have strange pixelated camouflage

Everything you wanted to know about camo but where afraid to ask.

 

[musicaljoke]

Perhaps a grad portrait (head shot) was taken of Kam by Lifetouch at some point, but then the graduation photo taken outdoors was taken by his parents in June? JMO

I donno, he doesn't seem to be wearing regalia in the little graduation video. Our local highschool holds graduation in June, before the final exams and marks are in. Students receive a furled up piece of paper that is their token grad diploma, but the real diploma is issued after all the marks are in.

Isn't that brutal!! It's possible for a student to participate in the graduation and then find out they didn't get all their credits.

 

[Jan424]

I’d never thought of this until you mentioned the possibility but yes indeed, attempting to kidnap an attractive female victim may have been their original motive particularly if the two had driven by earlier and noticed L&C siting outside the van.

An unsuccessful abduction of C involving a raging fury of defeat could certainly pose a reason for them to continue on to viciously murder both victims, representing a much different scenario entirely than a poorly thought out notion to pilfer what might’ve appeared as an old, abandoned van.

That kidnapping scenario is entirely possible of course, but I sincerely doubt even these two could believe they could pull that off. I don’t know,
I still think their preference was random killings and robbery. MOO

 

[LoisLane]

Was the 60-Minutes Australia interview going to be aired in two parts?

 

[LoisLane]

Just wanted to say that I appreciate all the WS posters who have kept the discussion going. I appreciate the efforts made especially the discussion and pursuit to understand why or how a person behaves. Keeping the conversation going even when nothing “new” to discuss keeps details fresh in our minds for when something new is released. Better than sitting idle IMO.

 

[banzai]

I haven't seen this posted yet...

Mike Hager‏Verified account @MikePHager

Am told by Mounties that several key people have been on summer vacation and investigators are still "tying things up." Hoping we get a presser this week so all the families and the public can get some more answers. #BryerSchmegelsky #KamMcLeod #CanadaManhunt

1:59 PM - 2 Sep 2019

Mike Hager on Twitter

 

[NJSleuth91]

I haven't seen this posted yet...

Mike Hager‏Verified account @MikePHager

Am told by Mounties that several key people have been on summer vacation and investigators are still "tying things up." Hoping we get a presser this week so all the families and the public can get some more answers. #BryerSchmegelsky #KamMcLeod #CanadaManhunt

1:59 PM - 2 Sep 2019

Mike Hager on Twitter

The phrase "tying things up" sounds like they're mostly done. That was fast. I bet there was a lot of information on that video. And possibly other "digital evidence," as the police referenced right after their bodies were found.

 

[Inkblot]

Everyone loved Sebastian Burns... everyone thought Atif Raffay was the bees knees. Both were adored by their family and friends. Sebastians sister still cant believe her brother could murder in cold blood, yet.. there it is. Sebastian admitting it, to Mr Big. Ditto, Raffay. Even Sebastian thought he was damn near perfect, a hell of a nice guy, just ask anyone! and tried to run his own defence at trial. Big mistake. ..

Good one! I forgot about that case.

 

[MistyWaters]

The phrase "tying things up" sounds like they're mostly done. That was fast. I bet there was a lot of information on that video. And possibly other "digital evidence," as the police referenced right after their bodies were found.

Digital evidence was first mentioned when the two were declared as suspects. JMO, by the time the manhunt was publicly announced the RCMP already had the evidence connecting all 3 homicides to the two and they weren’t just guessing.

“Shoihet said new information came to light in the last 24 hours leading police to change the status of McLeod and Schmegelsky from missing persons to suspects.

"This investigation is very complex and ever-evolving. Investigators continue to follow up on tips and reviewing the physical and digital evidence collected and sharing information," she said...”
B.C. murder suspects believed to be in Manitoba: RCMP

 

[banzai]

The entirety of the tweet leaves me with the impression that we may have to wait another week or two, as the investigators are "still tying things up". And who are the key people- is it lab techs, analysts, RCMP AC -or the families who were promised first access to the final report. Whenever the report is completed they may likely allow the family a few days to process it before public release. And, if the video is mentioned at all, it might be brief and without detail out of respect for the families. I just hope their report is solid enough on facts so the victims families and public aren't left with gaping questions.

 

[MistyWaters]

The entirety of the tweet leaves me with the impression that we may have to wait another week or two, as the investigators are "still tying things up". And who are the key people- is it lab techs, analysts, RCMP AC -or the families who were promised first access to the final report. Whenever the report is completed they may likely allow the family a few days to process it before public release. And, if the video is mentioned at all, it might be brief and without detail out of respect for the families. I just hope their report is solid enough on facts so the victims families and public aren't left with gaping questions.

Only the families were mentioned. Rightly so I think, they deserve to be informed prior to the general public.

Aug 12, 2019
“The BC RCMP commits that once we have completed that review within the next few weeks, we will be providing the families with an update with respect to the totality of the investigations and then releasing the information publicly.”
RCMP in British Columbia - Update – RCMP confirm cause of death and provide update on the Northern BC triple homicide investigations

 

[FactFinder3000]

It was a holiday in Canada today: Labour Day. It's the unofficial end of summer and the school year starts tomorrow for most.

Hopefully that means anyone who was gone on holidays is back on the case.

The point of informing the families of new information before the general public is to avoid them learning of new information through the media, like what happened to BS. Once the families are informed, they will usually release within a day. moo.

Found this interesting detail:

"Until a charge is sworn before the courts, a person or entity is not formally charged. To release information regarding the identity of a person or entity prior to charges being sworn is a violation of that individual or entity's privacy rights."

So that would be another reason to get charges out as quickly as possible, as it frees them to release information.

source: RCMP and Notifying Next of Kin - Canada.ca

 

[MistyWaters]

Just noticing this earlier Press release. “The BC Prosecution Service” is the Crown Prosecutors Office, if anyone is concerned the RCMP have been conducting this investigation solely on an internal basis.

BBM

Aug 7, 2019
“While we are still waiting for the definitive confirmation of the identities of the two deceased men, we believe that they are the individuals that we were searching for.

BC RCMP investigators have spoken to the families of Leonard Dyck, Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese and provided them with the latest update. The RCMP will continue to offer support to them understanding that the traumatic losses they have gone through do not end with the deaths of these men whom we believe to be our suspects.

We will also continue to offer support to the Port Alberni families of the two men as they deal with these difficult developments.

Investigators in British Columbia have worked tirelessly since the initial deaths were first reported to us on Monday July 15th, but I would like to stress that our investigative efforts have not concluded. We still need to ensure that our investigative findings, whether it is statements, evidentiary time lines, physical or digital evidence continues to confirm our investigative theory and eliminates any other possibilities or suspects. Until that is completed, we will not conclude this file.

We continue to consult with the BC Prosecution Service with respect to next steps and are mindful that a positive confirmation that our suspects are deceased does impact the options moving forward....”
RCMP in British Columbia - BC RCMP announce update in the ongoing northern BC homicide investigations

 

[NJSleuth91]

We still need to ensure that our investigative findings, whether it is statements, evidentiary time lines, physical or digital evidence continues to confirm our investigative theory and eliminates any other possibilities or suspects.

Interesting wording. Sounds like they already had an idea of what their conclusion would be even back then.

I did think of something though, "digital evidence" at that point could have just referred to the surveillance footage. And also, now, the goodbye video.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Only the families were mentioned. Rightly so I think, they deserve to be informed prior to the general public.

Aug 12, 2019
“The BC RCMP commits that once we have completed that review within the next few weeks, we will be providing the families with an update with respect to the totality of the investigations and then releasing the information publicly.”
RCMP in British Columbia - Update – RCMP confirm cause of death and provide update on the Northern BC triple homicide investigations

Not to mention red tape that's involved. This was a high profile case and I'm pretty sure they want to "dot their i's and cross their t's" as a lot of the world is watching and they definitely don't want to mess this up!

There's probably those out there waiting in the wings for them to make any mistake.

 

[SovereignSnake]

I know most have agreed the odds of the video ever seeing the light of day are slim to nil but I have to admit, I'd really like to see it even if it's just the portion they showed to the families. After the past month and a half of having my life get swallowed up by this case, reading dozens of articles, pouring over photos, videos, (seriously, I lost count of how many times I watched that Meadow Lake footage) hearing people's descriptions of Kam and Bryer, the towns people, classmates, their parents, Grandma, etc. Then reading all the great theories, photos, videos and reports everyone was has shared on here. I really want to hear these boys speak, to hear what they sound like, to put a voice with the faces and what they had to say for themselves after this whole ordeal. Was it worth it? Were they sorry? I'm still very curious of what it was like for them in those final hours. I don't think it sounds morbid, it's more like an epilogue to this whole narrative. It just occurred to me also, if they did indeed kill themselves shortly after making this video, the date is stamped on the video file. So the RCMP does know their almost exact time of death, they just didn't want to say. The wording to me was again, kind of strange. "Lived for a few days after their last sighting, but had been dead for several days when the their bodies were found." They were last sighted on the evening of the 22nd yet they weren't discovered until the 7th. My intuition tells me they must have lasted at least 6-7 days but not past the 31st. My coworker insisted they made it until the 3rd possibly even Bryer's Birthday on the 4th because she was convinced animals and insects would have almost completely devoured them by the 7th if they had been dead for more than a week. But again, I suppose it all depends on how much supplies they actually had with them and their will to live. I just cannot believe either of those two would flee the RAV with nothing but the clothes on their back and each with a gun in hand. ~Anyway, just some more thoughts and opinion I wanted to share.