Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

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Maybe now that the detail of this gun is public it will prompt someone to realize theirs is missing. Maybe someone who wouldn’t have realized a connection,
like a nearby neighbour.

Hopefully some of these details in the report can generate a few more leads and tie up loose ends.

It probably wasn't stolen. Especially if it was made from different parts that Bryer put together himself. I heard it's not that difficult to purchase a gun illegally in Canada. There was an article about it that came out just a few days ago that someone posted on here, actually. Especially if one is buying older "historical" gun parts. I mean if the Danforth Avenue shooter could purchase a gun illegally when he had developmental disabilities, these guys probably could. Especially because Port Alberni has the 19th highest crime rate in all of Canada.
 
I also think it was a sloppy, fast decision to actually go out and do it, but they'd been talking about it/fantasizing for quite some time. Two guys just don't go from being normal, innocent, everyday best friends to a serial killing team overnight. There had to be some element of pre-planning. Getting the gun the day they left shows that they had the intent to do what they were going to do when they left and did it. Maybe the time was just right for them, Kam had his truck and camper, they had their "leaving to find work" story ready for their families, they seemed to know the type of victims they wanted to target - vulnerable, helpless, and alone without witnesses nearby. They could have just gone out and did a mass shooting at a mall or something, but they didn't. They wanted to "hunt" vulnerable people. There's no doubt, in my mind anyways, that they talked about this long before they set off to do it. They didn't just bring those guns, see an easy opportunity to kill some people and shoot them out of the blue.. They knew they were going to do exactly that when they left.

JMO.
I unequivocally agree with you.
 
It varies. Sometimes it involves explaining some scientific type stuff, like how they use certain technologies. In this case it appears that the folks invited to the technical briefing were simply given early access to the report that is now publicly available.

I'm not sure that the technical report was just an early access to the RCMP press conference report. During question time after the RCMP report, for at least a couple of questions, the RCMP spokesperson said that the answer was in the technical report that they had reviewed ealeier.
 
It probably wasn't stolen. Especially if it was made from different parts that Bryer put together himself. I heard it's not that difficult to purchase a gun illegally in Canada. There was an article about it that came out just a few days ago that someone posted on here, actually. Especially if one is buying older "historical" gun parts. I mean if the Danforth Avenue shooter could purchase a gun illegally when he had developmental disabilities, these guys probably could. Especially because Port Alberni has the 19th highest crime rate in all of Canada.

@NJSleuth91

Please go back and read post 758. There has been no confirmation from the RCMP as to who built or acquired the gun. I believe @Kubirai misspoke when she said BS spent years building it.

Just trying to keep the facts straight :)
 
@NJSleuth91

Please go back and read post 758. There has been no confirmation from the RCMP as to who built or acquired the gun. I believe @Kubirai misspoke when she said BS spent years building it.

Just trying to keep the facts straight :)
For clarity, from the RCMP report (of course, none of us know if the RCMP told Alan and his lawyer more specific info than this in their private briefing, but his lawyer is saying that is the case):

"The second is an older style SKS with numerous serial numbers indicating parts from different weapons were put together over the years. Investigators were unable to identify where this older SKS weapon or parts originated from."

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation
 
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Crime prevention begins with analysis, of which there are many different kinds. I myself do not see any "romanticization" in looking at autopsies and such, nor in hearing how innocent people were murdered. But without some details, we are unable to form the important pictures that have led to massive reductions (or increases) in crime rates all over the world. In the US, the 1920's and the 1970's were our two most violent decades, and when one looks at the patterns and even just the typology of crimes that resulted in convictions in those eras, much can be understood.

If you're not noticing that there are kinds of crimes that are being committed by armed young males in Western societies, that's fine. It's okay not to be interested in why. But I'm curious why you follow true crime in general, then? If it's just to be horrified and remember horror, that is then your personal reason.

I've done years of work with criminal and other locked populations. Understanding these populations has led, for example, to better designs of jails and prisons, but also to better training and understanding of the people who have to work with them. To me, this work and understanding is crucial.

It's also important to at least ponder how people like K & B differ from their age peers, their geographical peers, and the rest of us. Sometimes we don't get a lot out of that pondering, but occasionally, something new is known or understood. There are some absolutely challenging dead ends in this kind of work and things we'll never understand or be able to predict. At the same time, without this kind of work, we wouldn't understand suicide or homicide at all.
I understand the need to analyse these characters, is it nature/nurture, peer pressure, personality disorders etc. but unfortunately, that's as far as it goes, their parents/caregivers, families, friends are seen as victims, off limits, their relationships are not open to scrutiny, we can't delve into their upbringing and who's door should the blame be laid, if indeed, there is one. It's hinted at but not what you're describing by a long shot.

What was meant by 'romanticising' is exactly what it means, the reason K & B committed these crimes, for the notoriety and glorification for their 'cause', they have contempt and hatred for society yet crave its attention, helped significantly by those who identify with them, feel these guys were pushed into taking a stand, that they weren't really to blame. One of the reasons the RCMP decided not to release the video footage.
The horror is a reminder of who and what they are, but interestingly enough, that's the appeal and why young males arm themselves to the teeth and kill!

The amount of attention they receive is determined by how young and attractive they are, it isn't the case with a man/woman who are neither, which is rather revealing, don't you think? We have put these guys in the limelight and there's more itching to have their chance. I'm sure there were red flags earlier, denial and enabling too.

I'm interested in the why, I joined this site to follow a particular trial for the what, why and how, but I know the limitations. It's disheartening when these threads turn into 'those poor and misunderstood 'insert killer's name here', a pity fest for the perps, Chris Watts is a prime example. How is that ground breaking? I've scrolled and rolled, particularly in these threads, I will continue and move on. Have a good day. :)
 
I also still wonder why the police didn't warn the public for four days while these guys were running around the country, not even naming them as persons of interest. Especially when they suspected them since the 21st due to the tip and store footage. They could have been stopped on the 22nd. The advisory went out hours after the police stopped them. We are lucky they didn't kill anyone else.
1. Truck was found burning, it takes a bit of time to track the VIN.; 2. Mr. Dyck had no ID on him, remember the sketch. His wife called RCMP on Jul 22 to tell them she thought it was her husband. 3. No identity on Mr. Dyck also meant they did not know if he had a vehicle or was dumped where his body was found. 4. When the truck was found burning, RCMP did not know if the 2 boys once 'identified' by truck ownership were victims of another killer. How would you expect the RCMP to "stop" the suspects on the 22nd, when they had no clue what they were driving, if they were or where they may be. 5. There was no evidence what occurred at Liard was connected to the 'strange' situation south of Dease Lake,,,,,hundreds of miles apart.
July 22, 2019 was the turning point for everything that happened up north and a change from 2 young men missing to being suspects. Go back and read the report and you will see key pieces of information finally came together so RCMP could act ASAP. By that same day the killers were 3 provinces away.
 
I'm still not 100% that they were solely responsible, if they were at all. We haven't actually seen the video, or a transcript of what they said, just a summary, so whether they really did admit to the prior killings is up for debate.
What I find strange with the current release is that if they had admitted committing crimes on 'camera' (before that, they were said to have recorded on a phone), why did it take more than a month to divulge that information? They already said they had looked at the footage recorded on a phone, you'd think they would have done it with the camera as well.
They're still being very vague about the tip that led them to believe BS & KM were respondible for LF & CD's murders. They even charged them in absentia with their murders, in order to do that, you need to have pretty good evidence. They're admitting now their main evidence is based on items found at BS & KM death scene?
Finally, the LD murder is a completely different m.o. from LF & CD's murder. It's not clear if there was any physical contact between the murderer(s) and LF & CD, but according to this new report, it sounds like LD was tortured. Bruising and burns sound to me more personal, like an interrogation, than a thrill kill just to steal the guy's vehicle.
At this point I cannot still cannot say with full certainty that BS & KM were personally involved, or solely involved, in all of the murders. Their behaviours after the fact didn't seem to point to two individuals who were on the run, trying to conceal a crime. They didn't wear hats or hoodies to hide their identities, which is how criminals usually behave. They willingly gave their names to a stranger out in the Saskatchewan. They didn't even commit more 'thrill kills' which is very strange, especially if they had so many more opportunities to do so. The evidence sounds very circumstantial, and it's hard to say if it would hold up in court. Unless a detailed transcript or clips of the video 'confessions' surface, it's hard to say how believable this evidence is. It sounds like something torn out of a TV show, wrapped up too conveniently for my tastes. But that is my honest opinion.
Correction: I thought that at the time they found the bodies, they said what kind of weapons were located. They didn't specify, they only said firearms. But now I'm seeing that the firearms were indeed rifles.

Do you believe that RCMP is lying about the videos. They gave very detailed summaries to the public, and played small portions for the families.

Are you suggesting that the two men never confessed on the videos, and the detectives are lying about the contents?

How many of the officers, detectives, and attorneys would have to be involved in that big cover up?
 
I did not hear the RCMP ever suggest the old rifle belonged to or was put together by BS. They simply said it was found with the suspects and had been made from pieces from various guns. Do you have a source for this statement?

Since KM purchased a rifle at Cabela's in July 2019, I think it was assumed the 2nd gun belonged to BS. (Assembled by BS was alleged by AS, but RCMP declined to confirm AS statement).

B.C. teen killers hatched plan to hijack a boat and escape to Africa. It ended in suicide instead

Still, Leamon explained, Al Schmegelsky wants more information, including on how his son came to possess what RCMP described to him as an “assault rifle” that Bryer apparently built on his own, Leamon said.
 
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Apparently they were both careful and sloppy, only when it was convenient for creating a trail of evidence for LE to follow. They were also thrill killers who didn't want to kill anymore, just run into the bush. A lot of contradictions in explaining their behavior.
I don't think it is that contradictory.

At first they were careful. They enjoyed the Thrill Killing. But they had to hide out for awhile....

And then towards the end, when they felt trapped, exhausted and were ready to end it all, they wanted to drop bread crumbs, hoping they would be found.

They wanted their brilliant videos to be recovered, and played for the public and go viral so they would live on, in infamy. JMO
 
Something that struck me as interesting in the police report was the ammo was manufactured in 1975. It's not uncommon to see reloaders using older casings but I wouldn't expect a store to be selling ammo that old.
I feel if Kam had his PAL, its likely he may have snuck some rounds from his Dad's supply, in addition to the few rounds bought at Cabelas. Police said there were 'hundreds' of rounds in Kam's backpack.
 
Do you believe that RCMP is lying about the videos. They gave very detailed summaries to the public, and played small portions for the families.

Are you suggesting that the two men never confessed on the videos, and the detectives are lying about the contents?

How many of the officers, detectives, and attorneys would have to be involved in that big cover up?
It would have to be a global coverup!.. whoda thunk?
 
"Based on the firearms lab results, similar offence pattern, timelines of suspects and admissions from McLeod and Schmegelsky, no other suspects are responsible for the three homicides.

I'll take the RCMP's official reasons as to how they made their conclusion.
That was their final conclusion.

Their initial conclusion, which was enough to start a man hunt and warn the public, was based upon the casings found at both crime scenes, and the suspects escaping in the dead man's vehicle.

I don't think we can minimize that circumstantial evidence. I think it is very powerful and damning evidence.
 
That's exactly my point. It's the timing of when that conclusion could be made, and that was after their deaths/finding the guns that fired the bullets and doing the analysis on them, not before.
I think you are conflating what is necessary for calling someone a suspect and whites needed to charge them with murder.

The initial evidence was enough to label them as potential suspects and enough to obtain warrants and begun a manhunt.

Later on, after they killed themselves, the further testing gave them the evidence needed to formally charge them.
 
I think that article is not accurate
nowhere else has mentioned that
The article is wrong, the RCMP report states they recorded the videos on a video cam that belonged to Leonard Dyck. They clearly took/stole it along with his Rav4. There is no reference to them still having their cellphones with them when they were found.
 
1. Truck was found burning, it takes a bit of time to track the VIN.; 2. Mr. Dyck had no ID on him, remember the sketch. His wife called RCMP on Jul 22 to tell them she thought it was her husband. 3. No identity on Mr. Dyck also meant they did not know if he had a vehicle or was dumped where his body was found. 4. When the truck was found burning, RCMP did not know if the 2 boys once 'identified' by truck ownership were victims of another killer. How would you expect the RCMP to "stop" the suspects on the 22nd, when they had no clue what they were driving, if they were or where they may be. 5. There was no evidence what occurred at Liard was connected to the 'strange' situation south of Dease Lake,,,,,hundreds of miles apart.
July 22, 2019 was the turning point for everything that happened up north and a change from 2 young men missing to being suspects. Go back and read the report and you will see key pieces of information finally came together so RCMP could act ASAP. By that same day the killers were 3 provinces away.

Right. For some reason I thought the tip from the witness came on the 21st.

Even so, though...I still think they should have released a warning just in case or named them as persons of interest and told people "if seen do not approach and call police." Because if the truck was found burned and Professor Dyck was found dead and his car was missing, regardless of if they knew his identity, it seems to me that the clear investigative theory is Kam and Bryer did it. I remember seeing it on the news at the time and I wasn't even paying that much attention to the TV at the time, and even I was like "yeah right they're 'missing,' they totally did it." Like sure, there was a chance at the time that they were victims of the "real killer." But why risk the public's safety? They easily could have killed more people and nobody would have even known to look out for them.

Plus, if members of the general public were saying at the time "hey maybe they did it" based on what was on their social media (especially if the picture of Bryer with the gun in his mouth was on there, which I believe it was at the time), I feel like the police should have looked at their social media and been like "hmmm." Bryer's missing person photo was of him wearing camo! I mean there was clear evidence of "identification behavior." And their social media was under their real names so it wasn't hard to find at all.
 
NOT doubting you at all - just genuinely curious as I have absolute ZERO knowledge of guns/ammo. So how may "rounds" would be found in a "full box" of ammo?

......"On August 1, 2019, McLeod’s backpack was located containing a full box of ammunition"......
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation
that is in the how long is a piece of string category. Roughly, a box, for the guns they had... take your pick..


Usually 50 rounds for pistol calibers with 10 (500 rounds) or 20 (1000) box cases, 20 rounds for centerfire rifle with 25 (500) box cases, and 50 rounds for .22 LR with 10 box bricks (500) packaged 10 per case (5000). ( this might be applicable to K and B )

Packages can be larger or smaller. Rifle match ammunition cases ($1/round) may be 10 boxes totaling 200 rounds. Pistol ammunition for self defense often comes in 20 or 25 round boxes. Pistol ammunition and .22 LR sometimes come in 100 round boxes and rifle 50. Larger bulk packs in common calibers are available like 525 rounds of .22 or 1000 of .223. Some surplus 7.62x39 comes in 1120 round tins.

Most people who shoot frequently buy full cases, often in multiples to benefit from sales and shipping deals.
 
It probably wasn't stolen. Especially if it was made from different parts that Bryer put together himself. I heard it's not that difficult to purchase a gun illegally in Canada. There was an article about it that came out just a few days ago that someone posted on here, actually. Especially if one is buying older "historical" gun parts. I mean if the Danforth Avenue shooter could purchase a gun illegally when he had developmental disabilities, these guys probably could. Especially because Port Alberni has the 19th highest crime rate in all of Canada.

How was it determined the gun in the Danforth shootings was purchased illegally?
 
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