Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

[CinNC]

Just an FYI-- I've not seen this reported anywhere else but on WS, and no link provided when requested.

I've seen it in a few places. Even one where AS acknowledged it. I will look for the links.

 

[Kiantra]

My apologies if this has been answered before. I’ve searched and without success.

What is a technical briefing? What type of information was shared with the media?

 

[SovereignSnake]

Does anyone else find the verbiage, "... Schmegelsky as saying their plan is to march to Hudson Bay, hijack a boat and travel to Europe or Africa" odd? Brings to mind his having asked a friend to "speak of politics".

If I were trudging through a muskeg bog in the wilderness I doubt I would use the word "march".

In turn, I wonder if the friend he invited to "speak of politics" was in a position to know about their intentions.

Hackett said the first of the videos were made prior to them arriving in Sundance. I wonder if they filmed that in Thompson? I don't think they fully realized how bad it was going to be up there until they arrived. I think at the time they filmed it they still had an enthusiastic, confident, conquer the world attitude. Another thing that I keep thinking about now is how quickly that illusive confidence vanished when they were interacting with strangers in public. Like the gas station clerk in Split Lake or even the Officers who pulled them over at the checkpoint prior. Yet another reason I really want to see these videos is to judge their tone and demeanor for myself.

 

[Kubirai]

Another weird thing is why would they drive up to La Ronge which leads to nowhere. Again it doesn't make sense, but a lot of their actions don't make sense to me. Burning their truck so close to their murder victim is the biggest what the **** moment there is.

La Ronge detour was most probably for sleeping, after a long day of continuous driving, with 2 stops only for gas and snacks.

The RAV4 they stole from Dyck is seen on surveillance cameras in Meadow Lake, Sask. at 2:30 p.m. and in La Ronge, Sask., at 8 p.m.

My hunch is that they noticed Prof. Dyck sleeping in the RAV4, near Stikine River, very early morning of July 19. It is plausible that they spent July 18/19 night nearby.

By 11:38 am on July 19, they are seen in Kitwanga, which is the end of Highway 37. They probably decided to go for Hudson's Bay during lunch, using a road atlas from the RAV4.

At 4:47pm, they are in Vanderhoof, purchasing electrical tape and a crowbar from a hardware store. They are next seen in Fairview, AB, with stripes on the RAV4 using that tape.

 

[LoisLane]

Just an FYI-- I've not seen this reported anywhere else but on WS, and no link provided when requested.

ETA: Info was alleged by AS and reported by National Post.

B.C. teen killers hatched plan to hijack a boat and escape to Africa. It ended in suicide instead

I’ve seen it in a few articles. Just google “Schmegelsky shot in the back of the head”.

I assume AS’s lawyer was present for AS’s debrief:

“In an interview Friday afternoon, Al Schmegelsky’s lawyer, Sarah Leamon, said her client sat down with two RCMP officers before the information was made public. He had the chance to ask questions of the two officers, and heard details about how his son was shot in the back of the head by Kam McLeod in the remote Manitoba wilderness.”

B.C. teen killers hatched plan to hijack a boat and escape to Africa. It ended in suicide instead

 

[Seattle1]

I’ve seen it in a few articles. Just google “Schmegelsky shot in the back of the head”.

I assume AS’s lawyer was present for AS’s debrief:

“In an interview Friday afternoon, Al Schmegelsky’s lawyer, Sarah Leamon, said her client sat down with two RCMP officers before the information was made public. He had the chance to ask questions of the two officers, and heard details about how his son was shot in the back of the head by Kam McLeod in the remote Manitoba wilderness.”

B.C. teen killers hatched plan to hijack a boat and escape to Africa. It ended in suicide instead

Thanks - Edited my post with link to National Post where it was reported per AS that KM shot BS in the head. -- Take note the RCMP declined to confirm this to the NP.

 

[Seattle1]

Is the full RCMP report available? Where?

If so, please add to media thread for easy access. I've only seen screenshots as tweeted by Alexis Daish. TIA

Alexis Daish‏Verified account @LexiDaish
The police report contains a frightening account from a witness who pulled over to take a nap on the Alaska Highway and saw a man - believed to be one of the teen fugitives - coming towards his car holding a long gun and in a ‘hunting stance’.@9NewsAUS @TheTodayShow

2:48 PM - 27 Sep 2019

 

[Seattle1]

My apologies if this has been answered before. I’ve searched and without success.

What is a technical briefing? What type of information was shared with the media?

I believe the reference is to the RCMP report issued and discussed at presser 9/27/19.

Summaries of report are posted by several MSN --but I've not located the full technical report by RCMP.

 

[Trooper]

I've seen it in a few places. Even one where AS acknowledged it. I will look for the links.

I assumed that because the RCMP said suicide, for both of them, and not the other label of murder/suicide, that somewhere in those vid clips Bryer unequivocally states he intends to die by either his own or Kam's hand.

In other words, consensual , in a pseudo legal sense.

But I suppose that will play into Al S's narrative, and it will be Kam bullying Bryer, the ultimate act of bullying, Bryer proving once again he was a bullied little fella, by shooting him in the back of the skull. But there it is. .

 

[SovereignSnake]

"In an interview Friday afternoon, Al Schmegelsky’s lawyer, Sarah Leamon, said her client sat down with two RCMP officers before the information was made public. He had the chance to ask questions of the two officers, and heard details about how his son was shot in the back of the head by Kam McLeod in the remote Manitoba wilderness."

Personally, after some debate, I do believe Bryer asked Kam to formally execute him because he was too scared to kill himself. In other words Bryer got down on his knees, gun to the back of his head. If this is indeed true, in some strange way, I respect Kam for honoring Bryer's wishes but it's also so unbelievably sad.

B.C. teen killers hatched plan to hijack a boat and escape to Africa. It ended in suicide instead

 

[Kubirai]

BS announced their stupid joint decisions in each video, so his dad can't really blame it all on bullying by KM.

BS most probably came up with the "march" to Hudson's Bay, hijack a ship, maybe go join Azov Battalion?

 

[Seattle1]

I assumed that because the RCMP said suicide, for both of them, and not the other label of murder/suicide, that somewhere in those vid clips Bryer unequivocally states he intends to die by either his own or Kam's hand.

In other words, consensual , in a pseudo legal sense.

But I suppose that will play into Al S's narrative, and it will be Kam bullying Bryer, the ultimate act of bullying, Bryer proving once again he was a bullied little fella, by shooting him in the back of the skull. But there it is. .

Agree.

Although media initially quoted RCMP report as "KM shot BS and then himself," some outlets later updated their news to include that KM shot BS in the head after AS gave an interview Friday afternoon. NP added "RCMP declined to elaborate on the either the specifics of Bryer's death or the specifics of the firearm".

“My client accepts all the information as factual. This is something he’s been anticipating for quite some time now,” she said.

Still, Leamon explained, Al Schmegelsky wants more information, including on how his son came to possess what RCMP described to him as an “assault rifle” that Bryer apparently built on his own, Leamon said. (The RCMP declined to elaborate on either the specifics of Bryer’s death or the specifics of the firearm).

B.C. teen killers hatched plan to hijack a boat and escape to Africa. It ended in suicide instead

 

[NJSleuth91]

Catching up on posts now that I'm home....

Thanks for the insight into the video games, it makes sense their strategies would be based on strategies they'd learning gaming.

It also explains why they didn't have an end game that makes any sense to us. It seems to me video games are carefully scripted to offer increased challenges after the gamer has passed each level. And those scripts can be pretty ridiculous: "hike to Hudson's Bay and hijack a boat", or "go back to the town and kill as many people as you can" sounds like the kind of instructions you get in a video game. So it could well be that BS's alleged wish to act out a video game in reality, might be a motive after all.

I've said many times how "cinematic" this whole thing seemed to be. I'm not saying "video games made them evil" or whatever, but I think the way in which they conducted it and the way in which they viewed the world was heavily influenced by video games. And depending on whether they actually were delusional enough to think their Hudson Bay plan would work, maybe they did actually think they were playing out a video game IRL.

I also think it was a sloppy, fast decision to actually go out and do it, but they'd been talking about it/fantasizing for quite some time. Two guys just don't go from being normal, innocent, everyday best friends to a serial killing team overnight. There had to be some element of pre-planning. Getting the gun the day they left shows that they had the intent to do what they were going to do when they left and did it. Maybe the time was just right for them, Kam had his truck and camper, they had their "leaving to find work" story ready for their families, they seemed to know the type of victims they wanted to target - vulnerable, helpless, and alone without witnesses nearby. They could have just gone out and did a mass shooting at a mall or something, but they didn't. They wanted to "hunt" vulnerable people. There's no doubt, in my mind anyways, that they talked about this long before they set off to do it. They didn't just bring those guns, see an easy opportunity to kill some people and shoot them out of the blue.. They knew they were going to do exactly that when they left.

JMO.

Agreed. I think they were fantasizing about this for years, but didn't initially intend to actually go out and do it. It is notable that there doesn't seem to be any escalating pattern of violence or criminality that we know about, leading up to this. I mean I guess something could come out, but the police didn't find anything from interviewing pretty much everyone they knew and digging into their history. With how sloppy these guys were crime-wise, I doubt they had previous crimes that they got away with.

I think they reached a crisis point where they decided they were done with life, and in absolute rage at the entire universe, and that's what made them decide to actually go out and do it. Clearly they were at a point where they didn't value their own lives either and suicide was always their endgame. And I think, given the abruptness of the trip, the decision was likely made within a couple of days of when they left.

As for planning...how much planning did it really take beyond "hey, want to go kill people?" "sure!"? This whole thing unfolded like they were just making a series of random decisions. It turns out Kam already had a gun license, and didn't even have to ask his parents for permission to use the truck, because it was already his and registered to him.

Crime prevention begins with analysis, of which there are many different kinds. I myself do not see any "romanticization" in looking at autopsies and such, nor in hearing how innocent people were murdered. But without some details, we are unable to form the important pictures that have led to massive reductions (or increases) in crime rates all over the world. In the US, the 1920's and the 1970's were our two most violent decades, and when one looks at the patterns and even just the typology of crimes that resulted in convictions in those eras, much can be understood.

If you're not noticing that there are kinds of crimes that are being committed by armed young males in Western societies, that's fine. It's okay not to be interested in why. But I'm curious why you follow true crime in general, then? If it's just to be horrified and remember horror, that is then your personal reason.

I've done years of work with criminal and other locked populations. Understanding these populations has led, for example, to better designs of jails and prisons, but also to better training and understanding of the people who have to work with them. To me, this work and understanding is crucial.

It's also important to at least ponder how people like K & B differ from their age peers, their geographical peers, and the rest of us. Sometimes we don't get a lot out of that pondering, but occasionally, something new is known or understood. There are some absolutely challenging dead ends in this kind of work and things we'll never understand or be able to predict. At the same time, without this kind of work, we wouldn't understand suicide or homicide at all.

I agree. Whatever was ultimately wrong with these guys, they were nonviolent and non-criminals for 19 years. It wasn't like a Nikolas Cruz situation where they were violently terrorizing the entire town for years. Kam in particular seemed to be very pro-social...all of the accounts of him were not just positive, but effusively positive. Even if they were complete psychopaths or sociopaths (and so far we don't really know what their deal was...I've told you my theories) the majority of psychopaths and sociopaths are non-violent and pro-social. So either way I do think that there were likely opportunities for intervention, had people noticed the warning signs, and that this all could have been prevented. And I think that research into cases like these has, and will continue to, produce more information on more effective detection and intervention methods.

I also found the comment that they planned to kill more people and not just the 3 that they confessed to. So, why did they stop? That was the question I had all along. I figured that they would just keep killing as they moved across the country but they stopped. Kam's backpack was found in the Gillam area and there was ammunition in there so they didn't run out which is what I suspected. They could have killed others as they ventured across the Prairies but they didn't. Why not? Clearly it's a blessing that they did stop, but why?

I was very surprised by that too. I thought their behavior indicated they were done with killing after the 19th. I find it very hard to believe they couldn't have found more victims if they wanted to, with all the remote areas they were driving in. I mean if anything they could have just attracted the attention of the Mounties and had a shootout with them, since they were going to die anyway.

I think some possibilities are a) they were done with killing at one point, but changed their minds later on, b) they knew that there was no way they could, logistically speaking, actually go back and kill more people, but made that statement on the video to be extra dramatic and for more notoriety.

I had actually composed a post to flesh out your comments. Many people who purchase new firearms make changes (different triggers comes to mind) and I believe some of those really old SKS's were literally found in crates at one point and sold very cheap and some could have changed hands numerous times with new owners requiring modification or repairs.

I'm old enough to predate Canadian gun laws and remember when those old SKS's were actually sold in some army surplus stores.

The police seem to have some reason to believe that Breyer built it and it it's not really a hard thing to do. I didn't read anything in the police report that indicated they felt Breyer had built it and only that it had multiple serial numbers. I would suggest that if someone like AS, asked police about it, they would have been offered possibilites (stolen, home built, private sale as it is, black market purchase).

It's unlikely further details would be released nor do I feel there is any need for the public to know more but I would personally be interested in knowing more about the firing pin serial number and I would strongly suggest that the RCMP have researched it carefully.

Something that struck me as interesting in the police report was the ammo was manufactured in 1975. It's not uncommon to see reloaders using older casings but I wouldn't expect a store to be selling ammo that old.

Thanks for the insight. I'm not surprised Bryer built his own gun -- that sounds like exactly something he would do. What I am surprised about is that it actually worked.

I do wonder how they determined that he built it though.

I'm not sure I believe that there were no indications of a motive, group affiliation, or promotion of a hate agenda on the videos.

With all due respect to RCMP, to say that there was NO INDICATION of any agenda, and then to say that they won't release videos for fear of copycats is a dichotomy of entities.

If there was nothing to "copy", why withhold videos out of fear of copycats? This is a rhetorical question at this point, and I accept and respect RCMP's decision. I also respect their withholding the videos out of respect to the families of Chynna, Lucas, and Leonard.

MOO

RCMP hinted at some problems with the videos. They don't need to nor should they be asked to say or do more. JMO

Yeah...from what they said about "identification" behavior (The Warning Behavior of Identification), what we know about what Kam and Bryer said on the videos, and also I think the officer in the press conference said something about Kam and Bryer encouraging other people to go out and commit violence? It sounds like there was a lot of "militia" type of imagery and talk in those videos, and the police are concerned that other young people will be into that image and want to emulate it.

(I bet those videos are truly bizarre. And very Basement Tapes-esque.)

A news article I read (sorry can't remember which one) stated they both shaved their heads. The Globe and Mail article stated that when they found KM he still had the beard.

Yes, I also read in a news article somewhere that they had shaved their heads. Again, sounds like some sort of militia thing.

Taken from the RCMP report:

Police checks revealed McLeod and Schmegelsky had limited police interactions [nothing of note] and no criminal records. Based on the known facts at the time, both males were considered missing and possibly further victims. Police Dog Services, Search and Rescue, Tactical Troop and Air Services were utilized in efforts to locate the missing men in the Dease Lake area and further evidence.

Anyone else wondering what 'limited police interactions [nothing of note]' could mean?

To me that sounds like maybe a traffic ticket at most.

Agree with all of this... and it’s possible they mentioned details about the suicide pact on the video, but also possible Kam shot Bryer from behind (in the head, etc), which would obviously tell the story as well.

From what the police said in the press conference and in the report, I believe that in the video where they discuss their suicide plans, they said that's how they would do it.

Does anyone else find the verbiage, "... Schmegelsky as saying their plan is to march to Hudson Bay, hijack a boat and travel to Europe or Africa" odd? Brings to mind his having asked a friend to "speak of politics".

If I were trudging through a muskeg bog in the wilderness I doubt I would use the word "march".

In turn, I wonder if the friend he invited to "speak of politics" was in a position to know about their intentions.

Yup. That along with the other stuff like the camo and the head-shaving confirms to me that they saw it as some weird militia thing. A militia of two against the entire planet.

However I don't think the "speak of politics" friend knew anything. First of all because there was no evidence of pre-planning that the police found. Second of all because I doubt he would have been interviewed by the media during an active investigation if he was a witness.

I have no links right now, but I've read in a few places in the last 24 hours that BS was shot in the back of the head. In which case I agree with you wholeheartedly; it'd be near impossible to shoot oneself in the back of the head.

It also makes my unleashed curiosity wonder whether it was timed, or if BS requested that it be done when he wasn't expecting it.

Either way, it was KM who made the ultimate decision and chose the moment to pull the trigger. I'm almost surprised he followed through and killed himself; he could have surrendered at that point and blamed it all on BS, which would be typical of a narcissist.

I also wonder about the timing now that you mention it....

I've said this many times, but I think the fact that they didn't try to rat each other out (as most killer duos do) shows how co-dependent their relationship was. I doubt it ever even crossed their minds.

 

[Trooper]

BS announced their stupid joint decisions in each video, so his dad can't really blame it all on bullying by KM.

BS most probably came up with the "march" to Hudson's Bay, hijack a ship, maybe go join Azov Battalion?

Maybe they were off to Africa to join Boko Harem? .., or maybe Joseph Swako's Lords Annointed Army in the Congo... their perspectives re women would echo Bry's, for sure. .

Oh they would have loved the Azov crew. .

 

[ldlager]

RCMP says there was no remorse, no guilt expressed, not about their victims, nor themselves. Business as usual. That's how psychopaths roll. No tears, because crying would have been a waste of energy as their path was already determined.
No use making up emotions they 'might' have had, when no evidence of any such a thing exists.

Psychopaths cry when it seems of value to do so. No other reason.

This is how psychopaths roll...”Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...”
you know the source of the quote

 

[NJSleuth91]

Now this is interesting for multiple reasons....So are there actually going to be further investigations then?

"Sarah Leamon, the lawyer for Schmegelsky’s father, Alan, said her client does not wish to view the other videos, saying they only confirm theories he’s been thinking about “for some time.”

She added they are waiting for behavioural analysts to conduct further investigations into why Schmegelsky and McLeod may have committed the crimes, in the hopes of answering more of their questions."

‘We don’t know’: Families left with questions after RCMP report on northern B.C. murders

 

[Tilly23]

I found a link to a video of the press conference from yesterday, including the questions from reporters afterwards. It might be helpful for those that missed it or want to hear it again.

For example, I remembered that Hackett had said something about the location of the videos in the question section. At approx. 30:44 in this video, you can hear the reporter ask the question and then Hackett says "There was at least 1 or 2 videos shot prior to them getting to their final resting spot - while they were mobile."

I take this to mean that at least the first video - the one where they say they plan to march to Hudson Bay and hijack a boat - probably was filmed before they found out what it was like to walk through the muskeg.

Here's the link to the video:

MOO

 

[Trooper]

This is how psychopaths roll...”Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...”
you know the source of the quote

From my old pal, Hunter.

Bry and Kam should have realized this one...

“If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up.”
― Hunter S. Thompson

 

[FactFinder3000]

My apologies if this has been answered before. I’ve searched and without success.

What is a technical briefing? What type of information was shared with the media?

It varies. Sometimes it involves explaining some scientific type stuff, like how they use certain technologies. In this case it appears that the folks invited to the technical briefing were simply given early access to the report that is now publicly available.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Is the full RCMP report available? Where?

If so, please add to media thread for easy access. I've only seen screenshots as tweeted by Alexis Daish. TIA

Alexis Daish‏Verified account @LexiDaish
The police report contains a frightening account from a witness who pulled over to take a nap on the Alaska Highway and saw a man - believed to be one of the teen fugitives - coming towards his car holding a long gun and in a ‘hunting stance’.@9NewsAUS @TheTodayShow

2:48 PM - 27 Sep 2019

RCMP Statement
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

RCMP Report
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

Added to WS Media thread
MEDIA, MAPS, TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION* Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, Leonard Dyck, BC, July 2019