Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #23

[FactFinder3000]

I think it was a beyond-the-grave slap in the face to their parents.

Yeah, or just plain an f-you to everybody. It's like, "what are you going to do to us now? Toss us in the garbage for all we care." I have absolutely no doubt that they considered themselves superior, as delusional people always do, and this was just to show how untouchable they were, how far they had removed themselves from the norms of the inferior masses.

I don't think for 1 second it means they considered themselves garbage. That's taking it far too literally.

 

[sandbar]

I read something about how researchers interviewed a bunch of kids who planned spree killings and didn't carry them out, and they said in every case, it was because an adult reached out to them and gave them something to hope for.

This is fascinating, any chance you have a link to this article?

 

[Jan424]

Yeah, or just plain an f-you to everybody. It's like, "what are you going to do to us now? Toss us in the garbage for all we care." I have absolutely no doubt that they considered themselves superior, as delusional people always do, and this was just to show how untouchable they were, how far they had removed themselves from the norms of the inferior masses.

I don't think for 1 second it means they considered themselves garbage. That's taking it far too literally.

I don’t think it’s taking it too literally. I can believe that Bryer loathed himself and his life and ALSO not find any remorse in his statement. And I agree they did sound rather delusional. MOO
ETA: Unfortunately for their 3 victims, I also believe they loathed everyone else.

 

[Jan424]

I think it was a beyond-the-grave slap in the face to their parents.

Well you could be right about that. It would not surprise me at all.

 

[NJSleuth91]

This is fascinating, any chance you have a link to this article?

If I can find it again, I'll post it.

 

[DarkSkink]

It' s one thing to believe oneself is garbage... K and B were convinced and acted on the conviction that everyone else was garbage first. Those are the ones to worry about, the monumentally self entitled, the deluded by grandeur, the impotent rage filled twerps, the ones with access to weaponry and vehicles and spare money, ( this knocks out about 75% of your total ) the ones with good teeth and good health and a lifetime of 3 meals a day and plenty of time to brood on indulgently about their self perceived resentments... ( this last category knocks out about 80% of the remaining 75%) ..

Of those left, some sort of reality revelation will take place and adjustments to life as it really is will be made, either voluntarily or by hard experience, of those left, some will sink into terminal drug addiction and be a permanent nuisance to their community, some will be picked up ( the lucky ones ) by communities that have universal medical care, and of those left, without access to reliable regular medical attention without the worry of finances due to taxpayers determination, some kind of life may be lived, of a particular nature.

That leaves us with the genuine psychopathic number of people sprinkled throughout darn near every community across the globe. There they are, and sometimes, they Darwin themselves out early, like K and B did, although they leave a trail of devastation and destruction behind them, far outweighing their value to society.

Even from the little we know, "entitled" isn't the word to describe it.

B's parents are quite clearly troubled, and it seems to have been present during his entire childhood.

There are hints of abuse, addiction, mental illness, breakups, possible parental alienation among other glaring issues.

He wasn't even currently living with either parent, which is all quite the opposite of "helicopter parenting" or "3 squares a day".

Suicide is typical in that sort of upbringing. Lashing out is typical in that sort of upbringing. The development or exacerbation of mental illness is typical in that sort of upbringing.

The "throwing ashes in the garbage" comment could also be a stinging indictment of how he felt he was treated by those around him.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I don’t think it’s taking it too literally. I can believe that Bryer loathed himself and his life and ALSO not find any remorse in his statement. And I agree they did sound rather delusional. MOO
ETA: Unfortunately for their 3 victims, I also believe they loathed everyone else.

Arrogance and delusions or grandeur are an absolutely huge part of this type's thinking. They think they have everything worked out and everybody else is an idiot. Smug and self-satisfied until the very end.

 

[Trooper]

Even from the little we know, "entitled" isn't the word to describe it.

B's parents are quite clearly troubled, and it seems to have been present during his entire childhood.

There are hints of abuse, addiction, mental illness, breakups, possible parental alienation among other glaring issues.

He wasn't even currently living with either parent, which is all quite the opposite of "helicopter parenting" or "3 squares a day".

Suicide is typical in that sort of upbringing. Lashing out is typical in that sort of upbringing. The development or exacerbation of mental illness is typical in that sort of upbringing.

The "throwing ashes in the garbage" comment could also be a stinging indictment of how he felt he was treated by those around him.

It is exactly the right word.

Millions,.. billions of children throughout the world live under similar conditions. And a lot worse. War, for example. Some children live under war conditions their entire childhood and beyond. Bombed from sun up to sundown then hunted from sundown to sunup. Some live in concentration camps, exiled from their homeland. Some , many, live in slavery, ask a Pakistani brick makers child. Some fight in wars, as children. Ask the kids in the Lords Annointed Army in the Congo. Some work in factories from the age of 6, weaving silk, making china cups, ask the kids in Chengdu. Some are abducted and made to be child wives, ask the girls kidnapped by Boko Harem.



He was living with a loving grandmother, who enjoyed his company, nothing in any evidence that he wasn't fed, and fed well, at least 3 times a day. He had a job!.. sure, it wasn't what he obviously felt entitled to, but in the scale of things, considering his grades, it was more than he could reasonably have expected. And probably, Walmart didn't promote Bry as quickly as he thought he should have been, but hey.. that's life.

So how was he treated by those around him? How was he treating others...?? we know he offered to decapitate a young girl, one of his contemporaries, so that is some indication of how he was into treating others. There isn't any record of him being mistreated, none at all. Divorce isn't mistreatment, and perhaps , from the mothers point of view, it was the lesser of two evils, considering AS"s perspectives. Nothing points to AS as a skilled non custodial parent. Nothing to point to AS as a parent of skill and intelligence, at all.

It's all a matter of perspective, really.

 

[Jan424]

C
There are hints of abuse, addiction, mental illness, breakups, possible parental alienation among other glaring issues.

Suicide is typical in that sort of upbringing. Lashing out is typical in that sort of upbringing. The development or exacerbation of mental illness is typical in that sort of upbringing.

Can we really say suicide is “typical” in these sorts of upbringings? I know many people who have grown up with each sorry situation you’ve listed and, thankfully, no one in any of the families have commit suicide. Lashing out can come in many ways, so not sure what exactly you mean by that. And I can’t say that anyone has grown up to develop a distinct mental illness. Oh and most importantly, no one has commit murder. I think it was just the use of the word “typical” that I disagree with. MOO

 

[Trooper]

Can we really say suicide is “typical” in these sorts of upbringings? I know many people who have grown up with each sorry situation you’ve listed and, thankfully, no one in any of the families have commit suicide. Lashing out can come in many ways, so not sure what exactly you mean by that. And I can’t say that anyone has grown up to develop a distinct mental illness. Oh and most importantly, no one has commit murder. I think it was just the use of the word “typical” that I disagree with. MOO

It's the old 'correlation does not imply causation" event, Jan.

That refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them. The complementary idea that "correlation implies causation" is an example of a questionable-cause logical fallacy, in which two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship.

I could name a bakers dozen of people in my social circle with stories that could top Bryers and Kams a hundred times over, for terrible upbringings, frightful parents, etc., without any of their chosen consequences. Far more people do NOT murder who have had horrible childhoods. So it isn't 'typical' .

There is a school of thought that proposes that the only response to a dreadful childhood is to calmly arm oneself and shoot the hell out of random strangers on a highway. As if one negates the other. AS himself poses this as a normal response. He said, well.... what else could his baby boy do? .. He was so frustrated, so hard done by , all this stuff.

 

[DarkSkink]

Can we really say suicide is “typical” in these sorts of upbringings? I know many people who have grown up with each sorry situation you’ve listed and, thankfully, no one in any of the families have commit suicide. Lashing out can come in many ways, so not sure what exactly you mean by that. And I can’t say that anyone has grown up to develop a distinct mental illness. Oh and most importantly, no one has commit murder. I think it was just the use of the word “typical” that I disagree with. MOO

.

Can we really say suicide is “typical” in these sorts of upbringings? I know many people who have grown up with each sorry situation you’ve listed and, thankfully, no one in any of the families have commit suicide. Lashing out can come in many ways, so not sure what exactly you mean by that. And I can’t say that anyone has grown up to develop a distinct mental illness. Oh and most importantly, no one has commit murder. I think it was just the use of the word “typical” that I disagree with. MOO

Perhaps typical is the wrong word. Perhaps it's the wrong wording.

However, it doesn't change the fact that unstable, neglectful, and abusive childhoods produce damaged human beings. It's a predictable development, during development.

B's home life, when looking at his final acts, is unfortunately not surprising. Typical.

AS asked where Bryer's safety net was. The irony.

 

[Trooper]

According to Canadian statistics, K and B were unusual, in so far as they were Caucasian and from British Columbia.

If they were teenagers , in Nunavut, they would have been considered typical.

Canadian stats for suicide have been reasonably constant since 1920... ( this includes, naturally, the aftermath of World War 1, then the Depression, then World War 2, then the Korean War, then the Cuban crisis, then the usual nuclear threats, etc.. ) averaging around 20 males per 100,000,, and 5 females per 100,000.

It is highest across the country among 45 to 49 year old males. So K and B were not typical, in that context, either.

Canadian males experience two periods over their lives when they are most likely to die by suicide—in their late forties, and past the age of ninety—for females there is a single peak, in their early fifties. The peak male rates are 53% above the average for all ages, while for females, the peak is 72% greater.

 

[Trooper]

.


Perhaps typical is the wrong word. Perhaps it's the wrong wording.

However, it doesn't change the fact that unstable, neglectful, and abusive childhoods produce damaged human beings. It's a predictable development, during development.

B's home life, when looking at his final acts, is unfortunately not surprising. Typical.

AS asked where Bryer's safety net was. The irony.

yes, unstable , neglectful and abusive childhoods produce damaged human beings, but it doesn't follow that, ipso facto, it produces murderers. Or psychopaths, or sociopaths, or personality disorders. There is a school of opinion that these conditions in children actually cause dysfunctional families, not the other way around, and there are rational grounds for that belief.

AS was really asking where his own safety net is. It's all about AS, don't forget.

 

[DarkSkink]

It's the old 'correlation does not imply causation" event, Jan.

That refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them. The complementary idea that "correlation implies causation" is an example of a questionable-cause logical fallacy, in which two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship.

I could name a bakers dozen of people in my social circle with stories that could top Bryers and Kams a hundred times over, for terrible upbringings, frightful parents, etc., without any of their chosen consequences. Far more people do NOT murder who have had horrible childhoods. So it isn't 'typical' .

There is a school of thought that proposes that the only response to a dreadful childhood is to calmly arm oneself and shoot the hell out of random strangers on a highway. As if one negates the other. AS himself poses this as a normal response. He said, well.... what else could his baby boy do? .. He was so frustrated, so hard done by , all this stuff.

Is it not a bit odd to conclude "etitlement" is part of the cause, then put forward that one cannot make an argument about possible causes?

 

[Trooper]

Is it not a bit odd to conclude "etitlement" is part of the cause, then put forward that one cannot make an argument about possible causes?

Not odd at all. It takes a great deal of long term self entitlement to aim a weapon at a stranger and pull the trigger for no discernable profit whatsoever except that of self satisfaction.

And that is what the death of Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese was about. Self satisfaction. That they profited by the murder of Lenard Dyck was, in my estimation, merely opportunistic, the self satisfaction ( feeding the self entitlement ) was the prime mover in his death.

They actually wanted it recorded for posterity, as a 'legacy' that they intended to kill more people. Any people. Random, whatever, anyone. Merely for the overwhelming self entitlement to do so, without hindrance or reason or motive. Just for the momentary thrill, borne of bone deep self entitlement.

 

[DarkSkink]

According to Canadian statistics, K and B were unusual, in so far as they were Caucasian and from British Columbia.

If they were teenagers , in Nunavut, they would have been considered typical.

Canadian stats for suicide have been reasonably constant since 1920... ( this includes, naturally, the aftermath of World War 1, then the Depression, then World War 2, then the Korean War, then the Cuban crisis, then the usual nuclear threats, etc.. ) averaging around 20 males per 100,000,, and 5 females per 100,000.

It is highest across the country among 45 to 49 year old males. So K and B were not typical, in that context, either.

Canadian males experience two periods over their lives when they are most likely to die by suicide—in their late forties, and past the age of ninety—for females there is a single peak, in their early fifties. The peak male rates are 53% above the average for all ages, while for females, the peak is 72% greater.

You're missing the statistics on how many of those people had unstable or unhealthy childhoods, or suffered a childhood trauma.

No one said murder and suicide is typical of their age group, province or territory.

 

[Trooper]

You're missing the statistics on how many of those people had unstable or unhealthy childhoods, or suffered a childhood trauma.

No one said murder and suicide is typical of their age group, province or territory.

I don't think it would be possible to tally up a number of unstable families. That is really something that is one of perception, .. one persons unstable family may be another persons idea of heaven. Ditto, childhood trauma. These things are also deeply cultural, especially trying to arrive at a numerical solidity , when there is no common ground as to what constitutes 'unstable' as viewed from outside the actual family itself.

I suppose that court numbers perhaps, might tell a story, but not all the story by any means. Therefore it would be a dicey factor, but maybe that could be all there is to come to some basis for comparison.

'No one said murder and suicide is typical of their age group, province or territory' I don't know what the problem here is, I didn't claim it , either. I noted that their age and gender and locality didn't fit the usual criteria for Canadian stats . That is, they were not typical suicides.

 

[DarkSkink]

I don't think it would be possible to tally up a number of unstable families. That is really something that is one of perception, .. one persons unstable family may be another persons idea of heaven. Ditto, childhood trauma. These things are also deeply cultural, especially trying to arrive at a numerical solidity , when there is no common ground as to what constitutes 'unstable' as viewed from outside the actual family itself.

I suppose that court numbers perhaps, might tell a story, but not all the story by any means. Therefore it would be a dicey factor, but maybe that could be all there is to come to some basis for comparison.

'No one said murder and suicide is typical of their age group, province or territory' I don't know what the problem here is, I didn't claim it , either. I noted that their age and gender and locality didn't fit the usual criteria for Canadian stats . That is, they were not typical suicides.

No one also said they were typical suicides.

You're arguing against your own argument.

 

[Trooper]

No one also said they were typical suicides.

You're arguing against your own argument.

Without appearing to be a bit insensitive to your rather curt arguments, may I quote your own post? ..

Suicide is typical in that sort of upbringing. Lashing out is typical in that sort of upbringing. The development or exacerbation of mental illness is typical in that sort of upbringing. ( posted by DarkSkink) .


I don't know who is arguing against their own argument, but I am certain it isn't me!..

However, I am now somewhat bored with the subject matter, so I bid you farewell.

 

[Jan424]

It's the old 'correlation does not imply causation" event, Jan.

That refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them. The complementary idea that "correlation implies causation" is an example of a questionable-cause logical fallacy, in which two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship.

I could name a bakers dozen of people in my social circle with stories that could top Bryers and Kams a hundred times over, for terrible upbringings, frightful parents, etc., without any of their chosen consequences. Far more people do NOT murder who have had horrible childhoods. So it isn't 'typical' .

There is a school of thought that proposes that the only response to a dreadful childhood is to calmly arm oneself and shoot the hell out of random strangers on a highway. As if one negates the other. AS himself poses this as a normal response. He said, well.... what else could his baby boy do? .. He was so frustrated, so hard done by , all this stuff.

Exactly right, Trooper. That laundry list could describe several friends I know and their friends. To suggest those outcomes are even remotely typical is rather insulting to those who have endured and persevered.