Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #23

[DarkSkink]

the legal record paints a disturbing picture of AS. The book, the testimony and current conduct merely underlines the problem. I didn't find the mothers letter odd , at all. I felt that it was the most, and the best she could do under the circumstances, and I had an odd feeling that she, of all people had seen the real face of Bryer at some stage and was preparing for the very worst of denouement:... she knew what was coming.

The lack of comment from the McLeods is the wisest move of all. I doubt that will change any time soon.

It is far too easy to dismiss what AS has to say, and is likely part of the reason this entire tragedy came to be. He was dismissed over and over when he brought up potential issues.

He is right about how difficult it is to get help in the mental health system. He is correct in many of his criticisms of the legal system during custody issues. He is correct when he hopes someone tries to find out the 'whys'.

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

 

[Trooper]

It is far too easy to dismiss what AS has to say, and is likely part of the reason this entire tragedy came to be. He was dismissed over and over when he brought up potential issues.

He is right about how difficult it is to get help in the mental health system. He is correct in many of his criticisms of the legal system during custody issues. He is correct when he hopes someone tries to find out the 'whys'.

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

it isn't obligatory to agree on this issue, luckily, because I don't. I really think AS has a perspective on this whole thing that is indicative of some deeply held fantasy that has no possible way of resolvement to anyones satisfaction. I don't see him as correct on hardly anything at all, much less on custody in particular. .. I think the judge got it spang on the money , and a lot of his views should be dismissed. I don't think he is rational in any sense, which is not to say he isn't suffering, he is, and I am sorry for that, but that does not obligate me to take on board his peculiar outlook on life.

AS never asks himself as to 'why' . He probably never will. It is the nature of the man.

 

[Runningforthewind]

With AS and Bryer's mother, there is his side of the story, her side of the story and the truth. I don't think all he has to say his false, but he is angry, probably was given a hand in a province which up until recently wasn't father friendly. I do think eventually the truth will come out.

 

[DarkSkink]

How so an argument against psychopathy? . the fact that they didn't kill after Prof Dyck could be due to any number of factors.. until the bodies were found I was convinced it was lack of operative ammo. .. but after that, I figured, they didn't get the same opportunity to surprise people. People were wary and on the lookout and the last thing Kam and Bryer wanted was any sort of shoulder to shoulder confrontation. Not for them, great warriors that they thought themselves to be.

It surely was not a matter of regret or remorse, and we know this because they said so. They had plans to kill more, , so obviously, what was stopping that plan coming to fruition was the precise opportunity that had presented itself in the matter of Deese and Fowler, and Dyck. Entirely unaware, unarmed, ,.. in other words, easy prey.

There was plenty of "easy prey" along the way. The person that helped them with their stuck vehicle. Gas station clerks. Anyone driving or stopped along the quiet highways.

If I remember correctly, LE found plenty of ammo near where their bodies were found.

If they were really psychopaths and simply acting on impulse and urge, they would have continued killing, rather than talking about it. What did they have to lose at that point? It hints they had some delusions of grandeur in being serial killers, but reality didn't quite live up to the hype.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

That is terribly sad if it is true.

I wonder if the content of those videos showed to unremorseful guys bragging and laughing about their crimes or two guys who were deeply depressed and couldn't show emotion about what they have done.

I doesn't change what they have done, obviously, nor the degree of responsibility. But it does change the "they were heartless sociopaths and nothing can be done to prevent another similar case" narrative.

He didn't value his own life so much to think he was garbage, that's a pretty callous statement about one self. I imagine he didn't value other people's lives either. Very sad.

 

[FactFinder3000]

There was plenty of "easy prey" along the way. The person that helped them with their stuck vehicle. Gas station clerks. Anyone driving or stopped along the quiet highways.

If I remember correctly, LE found plenty of ammo near where their bodies were found.

If they were really psychopaths and simply acting on impulse and urge, they would have continued killing, rather than talking about it. What did they have to lose at that point? It hints they had some delusions of grandeur in being serial killers, but reality didn't quite live up to the hype.

Why bother running at all if you're just going to reveal your position? They were trying to get far away, where nobody would recognize them. Another murder would completely negate that.

And in the end, when they realized they weren't going to get away to live their good life in Sweden or whatever, they wanted to take a few more victims before ending it all. Luckily there was nobody around to satisfy their homicidal urges.

 

[LadyL]

Another thing that came up recently. I was explaining this whole story to a friend who had been wondering where I've been the past three months and I shared this article (among several others) with her for supplemental reading. Anyway, scroll down a quarter of the way through the article, remember this bizarre tweet that surfaced on the night of the 29th/30th about Kam and Bryer killing themselves and to call the search off. I keep thinking about this and wonder just how much truth there may have been in that tweet in relation to Kam and Bryer's actual time of death. I know it made it into several media articles but it was mostly ignored because it was unsubstantiated. It could have easily been someone trolling, yet to this day it still has me wondering how strange it was both in terms of timing and the way it's written so matter of fact.

Pork chops and oranges before gruesome bush death

just a local who heard about the LE-gunshots IMO

 

[Trooper]

There was plenty of "easy prey" along the way. The person that helped them with their stuck vehicle. Gas station clerks. Anyone driving or stopped along the quiet highways.

If I remember correctly, LE found plenty of ammo near where their bodies were found.

If they were really psychopaths and simply acting on impulse and urge, they would have continued killing, rather than talking about it. What did they have to lose at that point? It hints they had some delusions of grandeur in being serial killers, but reality didn't quite live up to the hype.

Not neccesarily so, would they have just given in to impulse and urge. Psychopaths like to talk things thru, too, you know. Specially with another of their ilk. Things were not quite right for the killing, apparently. It is reasonable to assume they had a certain ritual, a particular set of circumstances that had to be met.

It isn't surprising therefore, and I don't think a lot should be read into the cessation of the pace of the killings. . .. God alone knows what they thought they were, or what dramatic cloak they draped themselves in , but it seemed to work for them, right up until it didn't.

 

[DarkSkink]

With AS and Bryer's mother, there is his side of the story, her side of the story and the truth. I don't think all he has to say his false, but he is angry, probably was given a ****** hand in a province which up until recently wasn't father friendly. I do think eventually the truth will come out.

Spot on. What he describes is the typical bums rush out of the child's life, with the system of free legal and professional advice geared to create "appearances" for one parent, and any frustrated objection is used as proof of being abusive against the other.

I have no doubt it escalated to unreasonable and unhealthy levels, and he isn't a blameless victim. However, a lot of his descriptions of frustration in trying to get help does ring true.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yeah, or just plain an f-you to everybody. It's like, "what are you going to do to us now? Toss us in the garbage for all we care." I have absolutely no doubt that they considered themselves superior, as delusional people always do, and this was just to show how untouchable they were, how far they had removed themselves from the norms of the inferior masses.

I don't think for 1 second it means they considered themselves garbage. That's taking it far too literally.

I agree with this thought as well.

No dignity for themselves and also to not conform to the social norms of the "sheeple" out there... No way they'd have a funeral or anything sentimental or formal like everyone else does.

I'm surprised they even mentioned to be cremated TBH. I'm not trying to be crass, it's a bit contradictory is all to me - they care and make note how they want to be destroyed (by fire), but don't care how they are disposed of afterwards. JMO

 

[DarkSkink]

Not neccesarily so, would they have just given in to impulse and urge. Psychopaths like to talk things thru, too, you know. Specially with another of their ilk. Things were not quite right for the killing, apparently. It is reasonable to assume they had a certain ritual, a particular set of circumstances that had to be met.

It isn't surprising therefore, and I don't think a lot should be read into the cessation of the pace of the killings. . .. God alone knows what they thought they were, or what dramatic cloak they draped themselves in , but it seemed to work for them, right up until it didn't.

I haven't seen anything that hints at 'ritualistic'. There is plenty of reason to believe it is more 'opportunistic'.

 

[Trooper]

I agree with this thought as well.

No dignity for themselves and also to not conform to the social norms of the "sheeple" out there... No way they'd have a funeral or anything sentimental or formal like everyone else does.

I'm surprised they even mentioned to be cremated TBH. I'm not trying to be crass, it's a bit contradictory is all to me - they care and make note how they want to be destroyed (by fire), but don't care how they are disposed of afterwards. JMO

Fire meant a lot to them ey, Lala?... fire of their own truck, fire of Leanards RAV, … wanting themselves burned .. I bet they were lighting fires around Port Alberni for years.. little ones, big ones, ..

 

[Trooper]

I haven't seen anything that hints at 'ritualistic'. There is plenty of reason to believe it is more 'opportunistic'.

oh they had a ritual. It may not be what you would call one, or what I would but they had one. It is a common trait among psychopaths.. Burning the vehicles. .. that was a certain ritual, even burning the one vehicle that was still operative.. they had to burn it and turn themselves out on foot, how dumb was that?.. . .. but the ritual had to be executed. Demanding that they themselves be burned.

The ritualistic manner of the attempt to shoot at the one that got away, the hunting stance, the creeping along, the rifle raising. All ritual. All choreography.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Fire meant a lot to them ey, Lala?... fire of their own truck, fire of Leanards RAV, … wanting themselves burned .. I bet they were lighting fires around Port Alberni for years.. little ones, big ones, ..

I think they definitely got a rush from the vehicle fires. They even bought gas in the gerry can to light 'em up I think didn't they? So they wanted a big fire.

Have to wonder about any pyro stuff beforehand. I wonder if it would go unnoticed or not in PA...

 

[Satchie]

There was plenty of "easy prey" along the way. The person that helped them with their stuck vehicle. Gas station clerks. Anyone driving or stopped along the quiet highways.

If I remember correctly, LE found plenty of ammo near where their bodies were found.

If they were really psychopaths and simply acting on impulse and urge, they would have continued killing, rather than talking about it. What did they have to lose at that point? It hints they had some delusions of grandeur in being serial killers, but reality didn't quite live up to the hype.

They snuck up on their victims while they were sleeping in their vehicles, in the middle of the night, alone in the middle of nowhere. I can only hope they felt how pathetic that really was.

 

[DarkSkink]

oh they had a ritual. It may not be what you would call one, or what I would but they had one. It is a common trait among psychopaths.. Burning the vehicles. .. that was a certain ritual, even burning the one vehicle that was still operative.. they had to burn it and turn themselves out on foot, how dumb was that?.. . .. but the ritual had to be executed. Demanding that they themselves be burned.

The ritualistic manner of the attempt to shoot at the one that got away, the hunting stance, the creeping along, the rifle raising. All ritual. All choreography.

Based on some of the video content, they were still holding out hope they could get away. Burning the vehicles only makes sense. There may have been some thrill in it, but like the behaviours in the store and the electrical tape racing stripes, there was some calculated reasoning behind many of their actions.

 

[DarkSkink]

They snuck up on their victims while they were sleeping in their vehicles, in the middle of the night, alone in the middle of nowhere. I can only hope they felt how pathetic that really was.

Perhaps it's a calculated attempt at possibly getting away with it.

 

[DarkSkink]

Why bother running at all if you're just going to reveal your position? They were trying to get far away, where nobody would recognize them. Another murder would completely negate that.

And in the end, when they realized they weren't going to get away to live their good life in Sweden or whatever, they wanted to take a few more victims before ending it all. Luckily there was nobody around to satisfy their homicidal urges.

How much of that is just bold talk though? It's tough to analyze without proper context or the timing of the recording.

They also had no problem giving away their position by lighting the RAV4 on fire.

 

[FactFinder3000]

How much of that is just bold talk though? It's tough to analyze without proper context or the timing of the recording.

They also had no problem giving away their position by lighting the RAV4 on fire.

Talk or not, it shows where their head was at. Or at least where Bryer's was at, since he made the announcement.

And the torching of the RAV4 does not indicate a desire to announce their position.

I have to say, it's quite bizarre to me that they would announce they are going to kill more people now and then not hike back. Just completely bizarre.

When I heard that Kam shot Bryer that was the first thing I thought of: that there might have been a disagreement about what to do next. Bryer wanted his "blaze of glory," but Kam wasn't up for it.

 

[poupetty77]

Not odd at all. It takes a great deal of long term self entitlement to aim a weapon at a stranger and pull the trigger for no discernable profit whatsoever except that of self satisfaction.

And that is what the death of Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese was about. Self satisfaction. That they profited by the murder of Lenard Dyck was, in my estimation, merely opportunistic, the self satisfaction ( feeding the self entitlement ) was the prime mover in his death.

They actually wanted it recorded for posterity, as a 'legacy' that they intended to kill more people. Any people. Random, whatever, anyone. Merely for the overwhelming self entitlement to do so, without hindrance or reason or motive. Just for the momentary thrill, borne of bone deep self entitlement.

<modsnip: personalizing>

At the end of the day, we don't know why they killed, how they felt or if they wanted to be famous. Their actions during the time they fled Leonard Dyck's murder scene and the time they died seemed to not really prove any wish to be famous. They could have committed more crimes, they could have recorded a video and post it on Instagram, they could have start a shootout with the police. They could many things. But they didn't. They recorded some videos on Leonard's camera, that could have never been found. We don't even know if they sick with fever/ dehydration took some drugs.

I am not saying they didn't want fame. Maybe they did. But I hardly think there is enough evidence to draw any conclusion about their mental health, state of mind or intentions before, during and after the killings. We can all have opinions. We can all have certitudes. We can all be convinced that acting this way or doing that means X, Y or Z. But at the end of the day. We don't KNOW. JMO