CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #3

[cody22]

I've been on a jury where all kinds of stuff was in the news prior to the trial. That's not how this works. The Nazi stuff isn't remotely important to what happened here. They'll be looking at evidence provided regarding three murders. The only place that his other interests might arise would be during sentencing. Should this go to court. But you never know. They might just get sucked up into a UFO by Obama and make their escape.

I have a weakness for the cases that space aliens are involved in.......LOL !.... I really just want these two young killers stopped soon, before they harm anyone else.....moo

 

[SnooperDuper]

Why would he/she lie? No idea. For the lulz? I can think of several tens of thousands of people on a certain forum who aren't above doing exactly this sort of thing, precisely "for the lulz".

I think it's important insofar as everyone is 100% convinced this guy is spouting Nazi propaganda, which has a very dramatic impact on the public's perception of him. This makes him guilty by default, in the eyes of anyone who operates on emotion first. Should this ever go to court, a jury now is going into it with the belief that they're prosecuting a known pro-nazi.
I think being accurate is important, and to suggest that there is any evidence whatsoever, to substantiate any of the claims regarding his online persona, is to be wildly inaccurate (at least as far as I've been able to find thus far).

It's also incredibly dangerous to start demonising someone based on absolutely no evidence. For all we know, these guys are entirely innocent and are running for some unknown reason (just to play devils advocate). At this point, if someone runs across them, they will automatically assume they're dealing with two Nazi murderers, and they're likely to shoot first, ask questions later. This sort of situation comes up often enough that it should always been a concern.

If the Nazi thing is not relevant to the case, their lawyers can move for it to be declared inadmissable. When a jury is selected they are asked what they know of the case beforehand and jury members are struck if they already have formed an opinion or read much on the case. If this crime spree has nothing to do with Nazism, the jurors will never know about that material, they will be struck if they do know about it, and it will never be brought up at trial.

LE doesn't have the licence to hunt any suspect dead. Alek Minnnasian lived to face trial even though he begged the arresting officer to shoot him and he appeared to have a gun in his hand at the time. This isn't the wild west.

 

[otto]

Why would he/she lie? No idea. For the lulz? I can think of several tens of thousands of people on a certain forum who aren't above doing exactly this sort of thing, precisely "for the lulz".

I think it's important insofar as everyone is 100% convinced this guy is spouting Nazi propaganda, which has a very dramatic impact on the public's perception of him. This makes him guilty by default, in the eyes of anyone who operates on emotion first. Should this ever go to court, a jury now is going into it with the belief that they're prosecuting a known pro-nazi.
I think being accurate is important, and to suggest that there is any evidence whatsoever, to substantiate any of the claims regarding his online persona, is to be wildly inaccurate (at least as far as I've been able to find thus far).

It's also incredibly dangerous to start demonising someone based on absolutely no evidence. For all we know, these guys are entirely innocent and are running for some unknown reason (just to play devils advocate). At this point, if someone runs across them, they will automatically assume they're dealing with two Nazi murderers, and they're likely to shoot first, ask questions later. This sort of situation comes up often enough that it should always been a concern.

Sure. First they were accused of being men who thought they were women, then they were gay, now they're neo-nazis. It's all ridiculous. They are teens who became unable to separate digital shooter game mentality from reality. They went on a road trip, lied to everyone about what they were doing, and started a shooting rampage across the second largest country in the world. They are thrill kill teens who made a huge mess of their lives.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Sure. First they were accused of being men who thought they were women, then they were gay, now they're neo-nazis. It's all ridiculous. They are teens who became unable to separate digital shooter game mentality from reality. They went on a road trip, lied to everyone about what they were doing, and started a shooting rampage across the second largest country in the world. They are thrill kill teens who made a huge mess of their lives.

Gaming disorder leading to other disorders. Who knows what was going on when they were younger. Imo

 

[midwinter]

Why would he/she lie? No idea. For the lulz? I can think of several tens of thousands of people on a certain forum who aren't above doing exactly this sort of thing, precisely "for the lulz".

I think it's important insofar as everyone is 100% convinced this guy is spouting Nazi propaganda, which has a very dramatic impact on the public's perception of him. This makes him guilty by default, in the eyes of anyone who operates on emotion first. Should this ever go to court, a jury now is going into it with the belief that they're prosecuting a known pro-nazi.
I think being accurate is important, and to suggest that there is any evidence whatsoever, to substantiate any of the claims regarding his online persona, is to be wildly inaccurate (at least as far as I've been able to find thus far).

It's also incredibly dangerous to start demonising someone based on absolutely no evidence. For all we know, these guys are entirely innocent and are running for some unknown reason (just to play devils advocate). At this point, if someone runs across them, they will automatically assume they're dealing with two Nazi murderers, and they're likely to shoot first, ask questions later. This sort of situation comes up often enough that it should always been a concern.

Caches can absolutely be purged, especially if law enforcement agencies want them to be for whatever reason (and information that could skew potential jurors might be a reason why they would). The facebook and instagram profiles were online at least until last night because I saw them. I didn't take screen shots though and I imagine that if I did I wouldn't even be allowed to post them here. I remember seeing a profile for a person on their friend list that had the name "Illusive Gameing" I remember it stood out to me because it didn't seem like the name of a person and it stood out because they didn't have big friends lists to begin with. Believe it, or don't. But it's being reported as fact in the media. I don't think it's a terribly important part of the narrative that can only serve to unnecessarily politicize this conversation and the speculation about it in this thread I feel is derailing the conversation

 

[Inthedetails]

He wasn't a lecturer of mine, but of my best friend. I sat in on one of his lectures one day and he was captivating. One of those people that is passionate about what he's teaching, and is very kind and personable. I had the pleasure of speaking with him after because frankly, I had no knowledge about botany but wanted to thank him for what I'd learned.

It was sad regardless, but knowing the reputation he had from those who knew him at UBC, it breaks my heart all the more. I can only imagine how his family feels.

That is touching to read - thanks for sharing.

 

[Norcalpen]

DBM

 

[MistyWaters]

“......Dyck's family has been notified of his death and issued a statement through the RCMP.

"We are truly heart broken by the sudden and tragic loss of Len. He was a loving husband and father," the family said. "His death has created unthinkable grief and we are struggling to understand what has happened. While we understand there will be interest in knowing more about him and the impact he had during his life, we are asking for the public and the media to please respect our privacy during this difficult time.".....”
Teens charged with 2nd-degree murder of Vancouver man in northern B.C.

 

[KR72]

Here's an interview with Bryer's father where he mentions Red Deer.

Strange how the dad's perspective changed so quickly. A few days ago when this interview was given, he was stating that they (Kam and Bryer) were good, non-violent kids on an adventur. Now, he feels his son's on a suicide mission.

Even though the father's been since informed that his son is a suspect, you'd think he'd be in denial or stating that he wants his son to come home. Makes me wonder if he's been in touch with his son as of the last day or two.

 

[BearCatSafari]

BS's father said he heard in the news the two were no longer in the Yukon.

Has anyone here heard or read anything about the two being in Yukon and when exactly they entered back into BC? I assume this was early on? Hadn't heard this detail before today.

 

[Tee404]

I know. I just rarely come across SM pics of two male friends decorated with cute little pink things.

It is more common in this day and age than you think. More of a silly, fun thing rather than seriously displaying themselves with pink butterflies.

 

[Snoop Sister]

ridiculous

what is the proper FB page, please? Oops, not sure how I quoted Otto...sorry!

 

[Seattle1]

Yes, apparently. In the early podcast interview, can’t remember the reporters name, she said B’s dad had received a text msg 10 days earlier from B and so he though the pair were heading to Red Deer to find work because he had relatives there.

In BS dad's recent video interview, he states he believed the teens were disappointed in their Walmart work experience, and told him they were traveling to Alberta to "make some real money," and that he was impressed with their initiative.

Said he was shocked to learn they were in Yukon. (Not clear if he believes KM's parents provided the "looking for work in Whitehorse" story).

MOO

Teens charged with 2nd-degree murder of Vancouver man in northern B.C.

 

[CherryKitty]

Here's an interview with Bryer's father where he mentions Red Deer.

Strange how the dad's perspective changed so quickly. A few days ago when this interview was given, he was stating that they (Kam and Bryer) were good, non-violent kids on an adventur. Now, he feels his son's on a suicide mission.

Even though the father's been since informed that his son is a suspect, you'd think he'd be in denial or stating that he wants his son to come home. Makes me wonder if he's been in touch with his son as of the last day or two.

This is exactly the same thing my mom just said to me as we talked about the case. I suppose it can just be a reaction to the new circumstances, but it is a big shift.

 

[Inthedetails]

rbbm
Prof. M. Arntfield comments on this and it is frightening!
Michael Arntfield | CRIMINOLOGIST, AUTHOR, PROFESSOR, CONSULTANT
VIDEO.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational...pects-in-the-northern-b-c-homicides-1.5222802

The criminologist in the video at the link suggests that it's unusual for team killers to kill a couple as their first kill. The perps left their hometown on a Friday and the couple were found deceased on a Monday (I think I have those days right). Were there victims between Friday and Monday?

My gut has a sinking feeling.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

RIP Mr. Dyck. Since RCMP are charging these 2 with his murder 1st could that mean he was the 1st victim? As I haven't seen any charges laid for the murders of Mr. Fowler and Ms. Deese yet? Hmm

The order in which the murders happen don't have to be the order in which they are charged. Different evidence in each case leads to the charges.

jmo

 

[Seattle1]

BS's father said he heard in the news the two were no longer in the Yukon.

Has anyone here heard or read anything about the two being in Yukon and when exactly they entered back into BC? I assume this was early on? Hadn't heard this detail before today.

Yes - there were reports that they allegedly arrived Whitehorse earlier, and departed quickly. (Employment market not what they expected)??

ETA: *allegedly

 

[greenfern]

BS's father said he heard in the news the two were no longer in the Yukon.

Has anyone here heard or read anything about the two being in Yukon and when exactly they entered back into BC? I assume this was early on? Hadn't heard this detail before today.

"Carol Starkey, Schmegelsky’s grandmother, told the Victoria Times-Colonist the two had begun their trip on July 12, but found Whitehorse wasn’t what they expected. She last heard from him on July 13 or 14. Her grandson had been living with her for the past two years." Missing B.C. teens now suspects in deaths of tourist couple and unidentified man: police

 

[Zella]

The criminologist in the video at the link suggests that it's unusual for team killers to kill a couple as their first kill. The perps left their hometown on a Friday and the couple were found deceased on a Monday (I think I have those days right). Were there victims between Friday and Monday?

My gut has a sinking feeling.

jmo

It's unusual but not unprecedented. The In Cold Blood killers committed a quadruple homicide their first go-around. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if there are more victims that preceded this.

Edited to add: I wonder if they didn't expect to find 2 people in the van so they intended murder but they didn't know how many victims would be there.

 

[Trooper]

Sure. First they were accused of being men who thought they were women, then they were gay, now they're neo-nazis. It's all ridiculous. They are teens who became unable to separate digital shooter game mentality from reality. They went on a road trip, lied to everyone about what they were doing, and started a shooting rampage across the second largest country in the world. They are thrill kill teens who made a huge mess of their lives.

I still hang in with the premise that this partnership between Kam and Bryer is a sort of marriage. A very deep commitment, not only to each other but committed to some vision, some bucket list of the mind, something that has elevated both of them into a third powerful entity, invincible, unaccountable and irredeemable, in their eyes. It has a life of it's own, this commitment, unless one of them is already dead, unknown to us. Dead by his own hand, or by the other.

It is difficult to pin down the primary motivation of this 'adventure'. The Killing of travelers? the travel itself? the thefts? the fires?.. Killing the two travelers first off was one hell of a mighty risk, and one of those things that cannot be imagined beforehand, unless it was Mr Dyck who was first, but there didn't seem to be much time between the killings, but there WAS a gap, no doubt, and a move to another location, which underlines the commitment to the vision they hold. They had time to appraise what they had done and they did, and decided it was a fine thing and continued on to the next event.

I believe the killing was the prime mover in getting them out of Port Alberni, as a motivation and as a vision of themselves as roaming , invisible killers, of no particular target in mind except ease of victimizing. That is, I don't think they were searching for a couple, or a single bloke or a bus load of tourists... it was purely a chance thing, a 'karma' thing.

As they probably see their own death. As a chance thing, a thing already settled.