CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #6

[Jilleybeen]

Thank you for correcting the autospell error of Aspergers! Kudos.

I'm not sure if you followed the Lanza case but the non-professional discussion of mental health issues that was done both with and without the assistance of mental health professionals associated with the case was hugely educational and frankly therapeutic to the community. The community heard from people with many points of view and this process was incredibly helpful to understanding Lanza and processing the horrific event. Believe it or not much of this was done without mental health professionals as social workers, ministers, priests and rabbis as well as teachers and guidance counselors and lawyers all stepped in with different views and shared incredible wisdom and knowledge. All were respected and all were valued in the discussion.

Many in the community had little understanding of the mental health issues associated with Lanza but did have stories to share about interactions with Lanza and it was only by discussing the issues and asking questions without 'judgment' that a broader understanding of Lanza ultimately emerged. I don't think you have to be a professional with a certification in the diagnosis of Spectrum Disorders to discuss mental health issues or possible contributing factors.

If you personally have a professional POV then by all means share it and let others benefit from your expertise. The goal of any discussion here wasn't to tag DSM number/s on BS or his father but to take a look at BS history and background as there is certainly much in those areas to discuss based on MSM reporting IMO.

In the same vein, there has been a good amount of reporting on various issues contributing to a psych profile of the 2 suspects in this case (in particular BS) and this being WS discussion of these issues is on the table.

I’ll have to give the information on Lanza a read as this is the first I’ve heard of it. Thanks for broadening my knowledge.

I think it’s prudent to note that spectrum disorders are neurological conditions and NOT mental illness, and to say BS has a disorder or mental illness is not necessarily relevant and might pigeonhole others with those diagnoses.

 

[afitzy]

The detachment itself would not have a helicopter or pilots and it would be costly and difficult to have a charter company at their disposal.

There was no way for the RCMP to know that the two deceased were foreign nationals or Canadian citizens when the call was made and even upon arrival, the victims seemed to have no identification and it doesn't sound like their vehicle was properly registered. I suspect a great deal of time was wasted tracking down the owner of the Alberta plates and registration while trying to find the identity of the victims. Not being snarky, but why does a foreign national warrant greater concern than the Canadian that was also killed?

There are areas where I think the RCMP may have dropped the ball but I don't feel that idenification of the victims was handled poorly at all. Typically, foreign travellers either enter the country in the own vehicle or rent one upon arrival. If personal identification wasn't found at the scene, the vehicle license plate would give police a good starting point.

I'm not sure where this idea of special treatment for certain victims came into the discussion at all.

At the time this event happened there was a van with CA/CAN plates, with 2 open doors, shot out back window and 2 dead people on the ground. Nationality was irrelevant to the response of law enforcement or I hope the response wouldn't be driven by who these people are or where they are from.

I'm just finding it strange given the distances involved that air resources aren't available in the area.

 

[Trooper]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

If this happened in AU, under the same criteria, those bodies could have been there for 2 days. At least. And then, it would have been a fixed wing aircraft patrolling the highway that spotted them. Perhaps. Not guaranteed. Sometimes scenes like that have been missed, due to dust storms, hail, nighttime ( naturally) and deliberately hidden.

And then it would have been a combo of fixed wing aircraft similar to the flying doctor aircraft ( they don't use helicopters for the same reason, fuel and distance ) and a convoy of 4wheel drives, with a covey of burly hearty outback coppers, booted and suited up for the conditions, with the biggest 4wheeler stacked with satellite communication equipment, because the last thing you want is for your crime investigators to go and get hopelessly lost.

And a truck full of water, too. That would have an armoured guard propped on it, with a couple of kalishnikovs at the ready. Water being like gold, out there.

I dips me lid to the RCMP to get there in 4 hours. Pretty snappy, to me.

 

[deebs]

Maybe they never really started killing.

They are merely suspects in Fowler and Deese, not even charged. Their deaths happened early in the morning of July 15. At this time details are to sketchy to be saying they killed Fowler and Deese.

The charge for LD is second degree murder. He most likely died July 19th. Based on how he died it wasn’t premeditated. Then right away they run. Out of panic and fear I would guess at the enormity of what just happened between them and LD.

Would be interested to know if there were prints in the van besides LF & CD.

 

[derbywinner]

For me, the big question is, why have they stopped killing? was three enough? did that assuage the rage, or was that the agreed number pre-spree, or ( and forgive me for this ) was a woman not counted, and the plan was for two? . why stop? .

Why only kill three when one can, logistically, kill a lot more, if killing is the name of the game. ..

Having murdered three people, what would be the point of stopping? why not go on, let it all hang out, go for broke. ..

The answer for me is, they are dead. Dead and cold somewhere, being eaten by a cranky bear. Of course, they could have run out of ammo, but why confine oneself to shooting targets? What would make them stop the journey they were on, and take another tack? . What was the magic inherent in the number three?

Having murdered three, what now, then?

What now is; did they murder three ???

 

[JuneBug67]

This story becomes sadder with every word for every person in it. I’m in the U.S. and had no idea about the wilds of Canada. To our Canadian friends, I so admire the resiliency of your police and people. To all, I’m sorry for the broken hearts and lives across Canada, Australia, and America as a result. Please, everyone, take care and take heart.

Thanks for your thoughtful words. It's a country of contrasts. In addition to the 1,000,000's of square km of almost uninterrupted wilderness, we have the busiest highway in North America running through Toronto. I think it's like 18 lanes wide at its widest point. One of the reasons this is as riveting to all of us as it is to all of you is that this extreme northern experience is not what 90% of us live either. Many of us are learning the finer points as well, right along with you.

 

[AddyFinch]

This story becomes sadder with every word for every person in it. I’m in the U.S. and had no idea about the wilds of Canada. To our Canadian friends, I so admire the resiliency of your police and people. To all, I’m sorry for the broken hearts and lives across Canada, Australia, and America as a result. Please, everyone, take care and take heart.

Lovely. Thank you.

 

[MassGuy]

Would be interested to know if there were prints in the van besides LF & CD.

I think there’s something like that.

They didn’t connect these two to that crime, merely based on an educated guess.

Fingerprints, ballistics; something has told them that these guys are responsible.

 

[derbywinner]

Would be interested to know if there were prints in the van besides LF & CD.

Exactly. Why hasn't LE explained why they think they murdered them. You have to be some hard assed, crazy, desperate person to kill two young people in cold blood, leave the area, hang around for days, then burn your only resource, and kill another human being in cold blood. Again; doesn't fit the profile of those two.

 

[derbywinner]

I may be wrong here but I believe these kinds of things get treated like a need to know basis. And providing intimate details can compromise an investigation and/or trial.

I agree, however you want the public to help, to basically lynch these guys without the proper information.

 

[AddyFinch]

Yes. Seems like speed is impt and time is of the essence with two dead people.

RCMP only have about 8-9 helicopters for the whole country. To use a fixed wing, they would need some type of runway, and would need to fly to scene from the nearest hanger housing one of their planes...could be large km away. Even one of our largest city police force doesn’t have a copter. They rely on other forces near by to enact “shared resources” assistance.

 

[XxmsmaliciousxX]

Exactly. Why hasn't LE explained why they think they murdered them. You have to be some hard assed, crazy, desperate person to kill two young people in cold blood, leave the area, hang around for days, then burn your only resource, and kill another human being in cold blood. Again; doesn't fit the profile of those two.

That's what I keep coming around to as well. None of this makes sense.

What do we know about them? Why the tourists? Why the teacher? The burned vehicles with computers?

I mean, has anything been written or recorded by either of them about their motives? What is the end game? What is the message they are trying to send?!

Its driving me nuts honestly trying to put it all together.

 

[1987]

I agree, however you want the public to help, to basically lynch these guys without the proper information.

can you help us out with some proper information? maybe it would help us understand more.

 

[KR72]

No, was simply asking the question about RCMP air resources in the Northern Provinces. Wondered if air resources were available and why they weren't deployed to get to the scene quickly?

Probably not available. If you look at a map of Canada, you'll see that there are no northern provinces, only northern parts of the provinces. Over 90% of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the US border. The closest RCMP detachment is over four hours away from the initial crime scene. I'm not sure, but I'm betting it's a small detachment - there's no way they'd have their own helicopter.

 

[Curious Me]

Please, please, they must be found - whether it be dead or alive. So many people now need that type of closure. People need to feel safe again and go back to their peaceful lives up there. Captured alive would give some answers to the victims' loved ones and give answers for all of us who want to know what the heck these teens were thinking.

 

[MassGuy]

That's what I keep coming around to as well. None of this makes sense.

What do we know about them? Why the tourists? Why the teacher? The burned vehicles with computers?

I mean, has anything been written or recorded by either of them about their motives? What is the end game? What is the message they are trying to send?!

Its driving me nuts honestly trying to put it all together.

Those answers will come in time, but your frustration is shared by all of us.

So many questions, and no answers.

As for why those particular people, I think it’s because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pure targets of opportunity.

If robbery was part of it, they were easy victims. If murder was the primary goal, the same applies.

 

[afitzy]

If this happened in AU, under the same criteria, those bodies could have been there for 2 days. At least. And then, it would have been a fixed wing aircraft patrolling the highway that spotted them. Perhaps. Not guaranteed. Sometimes scenes like that have been missed, due to dust storms, hail, nighttime ( naturally) and deliberately hidden.

And then it would have been a combo of fixed wing aircraft similar to the flying doctor aircraft ( they don't use helicopters for the same reason, fuel and distance ) and a convoy of 4wheel drives, with a covey of burly hearty outback coppers, booted and suited up for the conditions, with the biggest 4wheeler stacked with satellite communication equipment, because the last thing you want is for your crime investigators to go and get hopelessly lost.

And a truck full of water, too. That would have an armoured guard propped on it, with a couple of kalishnikovs at the ready. Water being like gold, out there.

I dips me lid to the RCMP to get there in 4 hours. Pretty snappy, to me.

This is an interesting perspective and point of comparison. In the conditions you discussed helicopters aren't a good choice. But in other parts of the world they are used.

So, maybe the question should be what transport options did the RCMP have available to get to the site? By all accounts violent crime of this nature is not frequent in the region so I am wondering if the fastest available mode of transport was used to get to the scene?

 

[1987]

Probably not available. If you look at a map of Canada, you'll see that there are no northern provinces, only northern parts of the provinces. Over 90% of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the US border. The closest RCMP detachment is over four hours away from the initial crime scene. I'm not sure, but I'm betting it's a small detachment - there's no way they'd have their own helicopter.

I'm not doubting you, but it is bizarre to me. here a news station has a helicopter, but there LE doesn't. it is truly very hard to understand.

 

[Trooper]

Please, please, they must be found - whether it be dead or alive. So many people now need that type of closure. People need to feel safe again and go back to their peaceful life up there. Captured alive would give some answers to the victims' loved ones. Answers for all of us who want to know what the heck these teens were thinking.

I take on board your heartfelt plea there.. I just don't think that these two are ever going to give answers that would satisfy anyone sane. If they are captured alive they will have to make their story as empathetic and appealing as possible, it would hardly help them to say, for example, ' well, folks, I just wanted to see what it was like to murder a man and a woman, ey?'..

That's not how it 's going to go down. I suspect that Bryer, just as one example , is going to come off a bit like Sebastian Burns, and be a real yammer mouth, explaining himself, and Kam and his world and Kams world, and then their own shared world at babbling speed, over and over again .

 

[KR72]

I'm not doubting you, but it is bizarre to me. here a news station has a helicopter, but there LE doesn't. it is truly very hard to understand.

News stations and police in big cities also have helicopters. The area where the crimes happened is remote. Nothing but wilderness and small, isolated towns.