Deceased/Not Found Canada - Lyle, 78, & Marie McCann, 77, Alberta, 5 July 2010 #2 *T. Vader guilty*

[Woodland]

Blood found on Lyle McCann's hat may not have been deposited as a result of force, a defence expert says.

... the blood stains were more consistent with drops of blood falling from above as a result of gravity rather than major external force.

“Sometimes blood spatter analysts misinterpret those smaller stains,” Slemko said.

An RCMP expert testified earlier in the trial that the blood stains on McCann’s hat were consistent with blood deposited as a result of significant force.

http://www.stalbertgazette.com/article/Defence-experts-question-forensic-evidence-20160518

 

[Woodland]

After drinking a few beers with Vader, Olson said MI pulled up and asked Olson to go to the lake.

Ingersoll testified for the Crown on Monday, April 4. He said when he pulled into Olson’s driveway he saw Vader driving a green SUV.

Beresh played a portion of a wiretap phone call in which Ingersoll told a friend he didn’t know anything about the McCanns and their vehicle and that Bandana Dave was going to get people in trouble. Ingersoll had testified he was lying during that phone call.

During cross-examination, Olson admitted he was unsure about the specific date Vader came to his home. He old the court he saw July 3 in media stories.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2668482/c...e-says-he-saw-travis-vader-driving-green-suv/

Imo, every meth user involved has changed their story - how does the RCMP know which ones are truthful at this point as opposed to previously? The RCMP has purchased some of the stories - also imo.

 

[Woodland]

CBC News obtained the document through the Access to Information Act after learning three female psychologists complained to Assistant Commissioner TS about the behaviour of the RCMP officer in charge of the unit.

Among the allegations are that over a period of months last year, the superintendent subjected employees to demeaning and belittling comments in front of other staff, that he interfered in people's work, questioned their professional abilities, and contributed to a rude, abusive and poisoned work atmosphere.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-witness-protection-harassment-1.3587859

I found it hard to believe Bandana Dave qualified for witness protection - now I'm sure he did not. Jmo.

 

[watcher9]

It's so sad that the family has to go thru this mockery of a trial in the hopes of receiving some justice for their loved ones.

 

[Woodland]

Looking forward to what the judge has to say regarding all the meth addicts put on the stand by the Crown - only to hear a change in their original story. Sometimes the meth addicts story changed back and forth while they were on the stand and they had to be declared a hostile witness. Or as I like to call it - meth-timony.

 

[Hez]

It's so sad that the family has to go thru this mockery of a trial in the hopes of receiving some justice for their loved ones.

Especially since the defendant has been thumbing his nose at the court during the whole process. At least Vader is back in jail where he belongs after being given chance after chance after chance to adhere to his bail conditions. :jail:

 

[Woodland]

RCMP testimony from 11 May 2016 regarding jailhouse informant -

RCMP Cpl. M S testified Monday afternoon that E C “volunteered his services to help,” in the spring of 2011, and was looking for a payout.

Court also heard Cardinal contacted the McCann family offering to sell them phony jewelry said to have belonged to Lyle and Marie, for which Sloan had to reprimand him.

Cardinal received financial benefit through the witness protection program, including money to maintain his phone even inside the remand centre, and “anything he needed to ingratiate himself to the target.”

Finlayson noted Cardinal is since deceased.

“He had a lengthy criminal record, for sure,” Sloan replied.

Beresh suggested one of Cardinal’s motivations for helping police, further to the financial gain, was to help with his own criminal charges; in October 2011 he was charged with assault causing bodily harm and sexual assault. He was later convicted of assault causing bodily harm but the sexual assault charge was withdrawn.

http://www.stalbertgazette.com/article/Jailhouse-information-motivated-by-money-20160511

The RCMP still continued with this in custody agent after he contacted the McCann family trying to sell them phony jewelry - saying it belonged to their parents.

Everything is wrong with the RCMP actions here imo - I find easy to accuse them of thumbing their noses at our justice system.

 

[Hez]

The Travis Vader murder trial is slowly moving towards the finish line with the judge in the case speaking Thursday about potential dates for closing arguments and an ultimate decision.

More at the link:
http://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/travis-vader-murder-trial-crawls-towards-the-finish-line

 

[Hez]

Well, I hope Vader enjoys cooling his heels in jail for the summer. He's too much of a flight risk to be let out again, considering his unmitigated recidivism. The forensic evidence against him and only him is overwhelming. I hope the judge makes the right decision and gets this guy off the streets for good. Vader has proven that he is a career criminal and won't ever stop breaking the law. He couldn't even make it through his own double murder trial without getting caught stealing and doing meth. I don't doubt that he was doing meth the entire time he was out on bail during the trial. It wasn't until he was brazenly and constantly late to court that the jig was up and he had to start doing random drug tests and of course gets caught immediately. :facepalm: I'm just glad that this saga is almost over for the McCann family and soon they can focus on more important things than Vader and his constant flouting of the law. :moo:

The judge in the first-degree murder trial of Travis Vader revealed today he'll be ready to deliver a decision in August or September.

More at the link:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/vader-verdict-coming-this-summer-1.3601666

 

[Woodland]

Hmm, I thought I read the forensic evidence was inconclusive. Isn't that why the charges were stayed 2 years ago? Interesting how people can see the same thing differently.

Seems to me the judge has a wide gap to fill in - and I hope he does try to do that. According to the Crown, TV arrived at his buddy's place (I believe in the town of Peers) on 3 July 2010, in a stolen white pick-up, sometime between 10:30 am and 2:00 pm - TV left and returned to his buddy's place about 5:00 pm. The buddy, DO aka BD, knew it was 3 July after reading about the McCann's in the paper. This followed his original statement that TV was out of town that day.

Anyway, the gap is - what happened next? The Crown made no attempt to fill in how TV overpowered the McCann's.

Option - TV drove away in the pick-up and managed to flag down the McCann's in their motorhome and towing an SUV? In broad daylight at the height of vacation season on a portion of the trans-Canada highway? Or the McCann's, less than 2 hours from home decided to drive onto a sideroad in Peers where TV happened to be driving? Still broad daylight at the height of vacation season.
If so, then what? The McCann's let him in the m/h, TV overpowered them and drove away in the m/h? Then walked back to get the pick-up? Drove the pick-up to where he had parked the m/h, unhitched the SUV? Then what? There was no evidence deceased or actively bleeding McCann's were in either vehicle. No human remains in the burned out motorhome.

Maybe someone can do better with a possible scenario - I don't buy the above but can't think of what else the Crown could imagine happened.

One thing I will take away from this case is, if I ever want to kill someone, I will immediately use their phone to call/send texts to the significant other of someone I want to pin the blame on. Good one - might be used a lot in the future as LE jumped all over it. Imo, this is another AG case.

 

[Hez]

Accused killer Travis Vader was denied bail Monday on both his latest charges and for breaching the conditions of his release on his double murder charges.

Malin also ordered that Vader have no contact with his girlfriend, Samantha Dandeneault, who might be a witness relating to the new charges, and with the Crown witness, Donald Bulmer.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cri...vis-vader-denied-bail-on-new-charges-breaches

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/travis-vader-denied-bail-to-remain-in-jail-1.3608179

Good news. This defendant is too much of a flight risk to be allowed out on bail, again. It also appears that Vader involved his latest girlfriend with his (alleged) attempt at witness tampering. :facepalm:

 

[Woodland]

While we wait on the decision by the judge, as a side note, but related as to action by the Canadian justice system -

In the ruling released today, Chief Justice Christopher Hinkson said that had Henry received the disclosure he was entitled, the likely result would have been an acquittal during the 1983 trial.

"I find that in 1982 and now, the Crown has a duty to disclose relevant material, whether or not it intends to introduce it into evidence," Hinkson wrote in a 97-page decision.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ivan-henry-award-wrongful-imprisonment-1.3622588

Failure to disclose is an intentional act by LE and or the Crown imo - it is done to hide innocence so that LE can either close their case or don't have to admit they were wrong - or both.

In Vader's case, the RCMP failed to disclose 5,000 documents as they knew they had the wrong guy - imo. The order of events were - the RCMP found the McCann's burned motorhome and failed to follow up what happened to them until they were reported missing 7 days later - unleashing a backlash from the community and losing precious time and possible evidence.
The RCMP then jumped on Vader as his former gf was contacted by the McCann cellphone on the last day they were known to be alive. The RCMP assured the public it was Vader and only Vader using the McCann phone - yet in the Bosma trial, no such accusation was made against the defendants - the evidence presented was where the phones involved were at various times, when they were used and when they were turned off. It will soon be left up to the jury in that case to decide who logically used the phones involved in that case.

Imo the RCMP cannot tell the public they have been wrong all along in this case, something I think they have known since before 2014. I find the whole Vader affair comparable to the picture in the linked article. Put an image in the mind of the public - LE can then have pretty much what they want regardless of logic or fact.

I also think that the RCMP and Crown thought they would never have to bring a case against Vader to trial - they were instead hoping the judge would throw the case out due to the delay in staying the charges then resurrecting them almost one year later. If the RCMP didn't have their ducks in a row after 4 years - something was wrong - yet they chose to proceed.

The crucial question remains unanswered - how did Vader get control of the McCann's?

 

[Slebby]

While we wait on the decision by the judge, as a side note, but related as to action by the Canadian justice system -

In the ruling released today, Chief Justice Christopher Hinkson said that had Henry received the disclosure he was entitled, the likely result would have been an acquittal during the 1983 trial.

"I find that in 1982 and now, the Crown has a duty to disclose relevant material, whether or not it intends to introduce it into evidence," Hinkson wrote in a 97-page decision.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ivan-henry-award-wrongful-imprisonment-1.3622588

Failure to disclose is an intentional act by LE and or the Crown imo - it is done to hide innocence so that LE can either close their case or don't have to admit they were wrong - or both.

In Vader's case, the RCMP failed to disclose 5,000 documents as they knew they had the wrong guy - imo. The order of events were - the RCMP found the McCann's burned motorhome and failed to follow up what happened to them until they were reported missing 7 days later - unleashing a backlash from the community and losing precious time and possible evidence.
The RCMP then jumped on Vader as his former gf was contacted by the McCann cellphone on the last day they were known to be alive. The RCMP assured the public it was Vader and only Vader using the McCann phone - yet in the Bosma trial, no such accusation was made against the defendants - the evidence presented was where the phones involved were at various times, when they were used and when they were turned off. It will soon be left up to the jury in that case to decide who logically used the phones involved in that case.

Imo the RCMP cannot tell the public they have been wrong all along in this case, something I think they have known since before 2014. I find the whole Vader affair comparable to the picture in the linked article. Put an image in the mind of the public - LE can then have pretty much what they want regardless of logic or fact.

I also think that the RCMP and Crown thought they would never have to bring a case against Vader to trial - they were instead hoping the judge would throw the case out due to the delay in staying the charges then resurrecting them almost one year later. If the RCMP didn't have their ducks in a row after 4 years - something was wrong - yet they chose to proceed.

The crucial question remains unanswered - how did Vader get control of the McCann's?

How did Vader get control of the McCanns? Let me take a crack at it.

I'm a female, smaller than Vader, and I am sure I could have gotten control of a couple elderly people. How? One at a time. When they weren't expecting it - element of surprise. And it would also help if I was hopped up on drugs (or really really motivated to get the cash to buy more drugs)

Totally doable.
IMO


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[Wondergirl]

This entire case is a nightmare of the worst kind.

I'm very sorry for Marie and Lyle's family and friends.

There are no words.

 

[Woodland]

How did Vader get control of the McCanns? Let me take a crack at it.

I'm a female, smaller than Vader, and I am sure I could have gotten control of a couple elderly people. How? One at a time. When they weren't expecting it - element of surprise. And it would also help if I was hopped up on drugs (or really really motivated to get the cash to buy more drugs)

Totally doable.
IMO


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With all due respect, that does not answer the question of how Vader got the McCann's to stop their motorhome or how Vader got inside of the motorhome or why the motorhome was stopped on the Trans-Canada Highway or a sideroad less than 2 hours from home. How did Vader achieve the element of surprise?

It is a tough one to figure out - LE and the Crown haven't done so to date. Does not seem doable to me - yet.

 

[Woodland]

Travis Vader tells CBC he'll be acquitted of McCann slayings

"The Crown put together a very, very shoddy incomplete case," he said. "You have to prove [beyond a reasonable doubt]. And they did not."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/travis-vader-mccann-murder-trial-1.3632579

I really have to agree that beyond a reasonable doubt does not seem to have been met - no one can offer even a partial scenario how TV pulled this off. We have been taught to hate TV in order to bolster the idea that he is guilty, imo - but that isn't how it's suppose to work.

Fwiw and imo, if one takes random out of the equation for the disappearance and death of the McCann's, things seem to make much more sense.

 

[Slebby]

I hate to agree that TV is likely to be acquitted. Personally, I feel sorry for the prosecution. With ties to the legal community, I'm aware that often there are cases where they know they've got the right guy, but face a difficult task of proving it.

One problem, evident in this case, is that criminals and drug abusers tend to hang out with other criminals and drug abusers. It's not easy to find credible, lily-white, unimpeachable witnesses. It is clear the stories from some of these witnesses changed over time, like that of TV's sister.

Another problem is that our legal system errs on the side of the rights of the accused. Wouldn't it be nice if they could compel TV to explain the DNA evidence.

The only comfort I take is that TV cannot help himself - he couldn't even stay out of trouble while on trial for murder! TV apparently sees theft as a way of life, a career option. He will end up in jail, again and again, for the rest of his life, which will likely be cut short by his lifestyle of drugs, crime, and incarceration.

He's not as smart as he thinks. His arrogance shines through in this ill-advised interview. And his lies are evident - I was never in the SUV - as far as I know?? I never used meth??

What he has done now, with this interview, IMO, is put himself in a bad spot if, in fact, he is found guilty. It will be difficult for his lawyer to present a strategy with respect to sentencing, given that TV's interview is out there. But TV apparently thinks he's smarter than his lawyer - "sorry, Brian, it had to be done".

BB is a great lawyer, and TV is very lucky to have him. If someone was truly trying to "frame" TV by using the Mc's cell phone to contact TV's girlfriend, I am very sure BB could have secured his client TV immunity if he cooperated with police to catch "the real killer". How large is the pool of candidates TV knows who would actually want to "frame" him? GMAB.

Personally, I get sick of hearing about "witch hunts", frame jobs, every accused murderer has the same story. If they just lie long enough they just might get away with it. There's a good chance TV will get away with it. And somewhere out there, the remains of the Mc's lie, never to see a proper burial or bring any sliver of comfort to their family.

The folks I know in the legal community and law enforcement want to actually catch the guy who did it, not the closest lowlife they can fit up with a guilty verdict. With the facts and evidence they have available, I am personally glad they did their best to try to get justice for the Mcs and their loved ones.

IMO


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[Woodland]

Closing arguments are scheduled to begin tomorrow - I must say Slebby, after your last post I anticipate this even more.

'There's a good chance TV will get away with it' is a quote from your last post. There is no jury and you are not the presiding judge - with all due respect. You claim to have ties to the legal community that want the perp to be caught - regardless of what? Changing the rules so that the accused must must explain evidence against them? An accused should name another suspect? Many children were born today in Canada - their grandchildren will not see the day such changes will be made to our justice system.

How did Vader commit this crime - beyond a reasonable doubt? By comparison he was driving an itty bitty pick-up vs a wonking motorhome - what happened in broad daylight that no one saw?

If and when a not guilty verdict comes down, I have a more than a reasonable alternative fwiw. Statistically who wanted the McCann's to disappear with no doubt they are deceased? Who benefited? How did 2 pieces of paper survive the fire - the bill of sale and the registration - ensuring LE knew who the motorhome belonged to?

There is no doubt in my mind that LE considered this after announcing to the public Vader and only Vader committed this crime. They could not go back after not investigating the burned motorhome the day it was found.

Hate is not going to solve this crime. Jmo.

 

[Woodland]

My observation on some of the judges comments fwiw - his decision to continue with a trial after considering the breach of civil rights after the charges were stayed then resurrected - the judge said 'the decision was close' and favored a trial. Almost six years had passed.

On the fail to disclose 5,000 docs by the RCMP - poor them, it was a mistake that will not be repeated.

The judge is biased imo. Even those that want Vader to be guilty can see that - imo.

 

[otto]

Closing arguments for Vader today. Vader used the McCann's phone to call his girlfriend, and he visited a friend using McCann's vehicle.

"The Crown points to Vader's DNA found on the steering wheel and arm rest of the McCanns' SUV, on a can of beer in the front seat cup holder and on two of Lyle McCann's baseball hats found inside the vehicle."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ence-theories-in-travis-vader-trial-1.3646758