CANADA Canada - Madison Scott, 20, Vanderhoof, BC, 27 May 2011

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oh everyone around here has a pretty good idea of how this all went down as soon as we figured out where she was found. But no one is going to say anything because none of us want anything to get messed up during the investigation. We all want Justice for Maddy. Especially since there haven’t been any arrests and it’s more than likely the responsible person(s) could be reading this, hopefully not using these theories as their way to try to get out of it. We’re all just waiting for the RCMP to do their thing. Faith in them is pretty high around here I would say.
Good to hear this!
Unfortunatly I'd lost some faith in RCMP because these kids being frustrated where not the only ones. RCMP didn't leave all stones unturned, they could do more, I heard this first hand from a local. And I think there is a reason the Scott family hired their own PI's.
It's a miracle Madison has been found, now the RCMP can't look away, they need to work.....
btw I'm on their side, I hope they succeed this time!
 
Good to hear this!
Unfortunatly I'd lost some faith in RCMP because these kids being frustrated where not the only ones. RCMP didn't leave all stones unturned, they could do more, I heard this first hand from a local. And I think there is a reason the Scott family hired their own PI's.
It's a miracle Madison has been found, now the RCMP can't look away, they need to work.....
btw I'm on their side, I hope they succeed this time!
I kind of disagree with what your local friend said. I think the RCMP did absolutely everything they could and never stopped working at it. If you talk to the Scott family they’ll tell you the same thing. Some people may have spoke to the RCMP with information and felt it wasn’t taken seriously or whatever, there are tons of reasons why they may have seemed uninterested. Because we don’t ever know fully what they know or what they’re up to. As well as how many ridiculous tips they have to follow up on. I’ve heard tons of stories of some of our locals wasting their time entirely. Imagine with all the info they had gathered and still having to sit down and listen to the local self proclaimed psychic insist on telling you about the dream she had that maddy is living in Austria back packing (I’m not even kidding, maybe not exactly that fairytale but ones just like it) those were the people running around saying the cops weren’t doing anything. Anyone involved will tell you they truly worked their asses off, and still are out there now on that property making sure they sift through every inch of it. We don’t know enough details right now to even know truly how the case had a break, or who specifically was responsible for the break. There’s literally no verified information right now as to how her remains were found. That’s ALL local gossip. So until the story comes out from the RCMP, all these theories are mostly really big reaches.

Another thing I want to add, it is very much verified that fribjons murder had absolutely nothing to do with maddy. I know fribjons family and they suffered a literal nightmare. When that 48 hrs thing came out painting him in a bad light it was a heart break all over again for them. And now here we go again with it. Can we leave that alone, for real. I feel so bad people are still trying to connect him. It’s literally verified by both families and the police it’s not connected so in the same way you can’t post here info that’s not verified, you shouldn’t be posting theories about people who are verified to NOT be connected.
 
That's a third panel in the parents' investigation that includes
  • Cam Black
  • Cody Black
Another board says "Blacks last to leave."

Whoever was last to leave must have known that Madison was asleep in her tent next to the lake.

View attachment 426406

What is clear is that the 48 Hours episode was intended to put pressure on a select group of people who were there at the end of the party and stir things up. Of course they had to make the statement that the family's investigation was separate from the official one, but RCMP had the same information and more.

I think as a whole, they tried to paint a picture as to what most likely happened. By what was said or not said. Some statements may continue to take on a different meaning in hindsight.

"Something happened to Maddy."

True, but If they had their 'suspects' but no evidence, also that would be very hard to keep secret for 12 years.

Usually some information leaks to public. Sometimes also as a tactic to build pressure on the 'suspects'.
A channel like 'Searchlight' would mention it for sure if there were any serious suspects . Hence how he questioned Jordy's actions. He would help the Scott family for sure with any suspicions they had and mentioned it. If these farm brothers (or their parents) refused to let their property be searched by local volunteers and it was known they were last to leave the party this would raise suspicion amongst the locals. We would have heard about that by now. Even more if known they also didn't want to speak to the PI's.

Maybe they (farm brothers) fully cooperated with everything and managed to get away with this for 12 years? But it's very hard to do that without raising any 'suspicion'. Almost impossible really.
And we still don't hear anything from RCMP, almost 2 weeks of silence now, what's going on......?
I know, they are trying to find evidence now, it takes time, but this is such a weird case.......
Lets hope there won't be another 5 or 12 years silence. The pressure is full on RCMP now, but also on that farm family....

*gonna check out that other case you mention, yes, sometimes police really screws up, people make mistakes, for instance check out that 'Deplhi' case and how police screwed up right in the beginning. That case should have been solved in 2 weeks. And even after that mistake IF they gave the public just a little more information it probably was solved way sooner. But they gave almost nothing..... Same with Madison's case, they gave almost nothing.
The 48 Hours - Highway of Tears segment about Maddy is the most blatant example of exactly what you're talking about that I've ever seen. This was before Searchlight even existed. This information has all been public since 2012. This was an aggressive move IMO.


"Something happened to Maddy. Maddy disappeared. She didn't get taken by a flying saucer. Somebody knows something," said Sgt. Ken Floyd.

"I just can't believe that, it's -- it's just so wrong," said Maddy's mom.

"This is a board that our team has put together. It's a list of people who were at the party," Dawn explained. "... when they arrived, when they left ...Who they arrived with, with who they left with."

[Multiple panels from white 'information board' from Scott family investigation are shown. Relevant brothers referenced on at least 3 of these panels.]

Asked if there were strangers at the party, Bolduc told Van Sant, "I know most of them, but the people that came at the very end of the par...party [Jordy stumbles over her words, looks downward], I did not know. I had no idea who they were."

Narrator: "Investigators have focused a lot of attention on Bolduc and the last people to leave the party."

"Common sense dictates that Jordy was a suspect. She was one of the last people ... who spoke with Maddy," said Sgt. Ken Floyd of the RCMP. [Therefore, which other people does common sense dictate were also suspects?]
 
As well as how many ridiculous tips they have to follow up on. I’ve heard tons of stories of some of our locals wasting their time entirely. Imagine with all the info they had gathered and still having to sit down and listen to the local self proclaimed psychic insist on telling you about the dream she had that maddy is living in Austria back packing (I’m not even kidding, maybe not exactly that fairytale but ones just like it) those were the people running around saying the cops weren’t doing anything.
You're describing the essence of basic investigating efforts. Of course, more exposure means more "psychics", and more useless leads but it's still way better than no leads at all and investigators should be adjusted to it. Many, many murders in BC, they weren't cops from the middle of nowhere where the worst crime happened in 1962, when somebody stole a cow (if they were it'd be fully understandable that they were shocked by these new, unknown circumstances).

I wish for an occasion to apologize for the unfavorable opinions I have about them someday thou.
 
I kind of disagree with what your local friend said. I think the RCMP did absolutely everything they could and never stopped working at it. If you talk to the Scott family they’ll tell you the same thing. Some people may have spoke to the RCMP with information and felt it wasn’t taken seriously or whatever, there are tons of reasons why they may have seemed uninterested. Because we don’t ever know fully what they know or what they’re up to. As well as how many ridiculous tips they have to follow up on. I’ve heard tons of stories of some of our locals wasting their time entirely. Imagine with all the info they had gathered and still having to sit down and listen to the local self proclaimed psychic insist on telling you about the dream she had that maddy is living in Austria back packing (I’m not even kidding, maybe not exactly that fairytale but ones just like it) those were the people running around saying the cops weren’t doing anything. Anyone involved will tell you they truly worked their asses off, and still are out there now on that property making sure they sift through every inch of it. We don’t know enough details right now to even know truly how the case had a break, or who specifically was responsible for the break. There’s literally no verified information right now as to how her remains were found. That’s ALL local gossip. So until the story comes out from the RCMP, all these theories are mostly really big reaches.

Another thing I want to add, it is very much verified that fribjons murder had absolutely nothing to do with maddy. I know fribjons family and they suffered a literal nightmare. When that 48 hrs thing came out painting him in a bad light it was a heart break all over again for them. And now here we go again with it. Can we leave that alone, for real. I feel so bad people are still trying to connect him. It’s literally verified by both families and the police it’s not connected so in the same way you can’t post here info that’s not verified, you shouldn’t be posting theories about people who are verified to NOT be connected.
Thank you. Some very solid advice here. No doubt the RCMP has been doing everything they can to solve this case, and continue to do so. Much of this effort and many details may never be known to us, though hopefully some will. I'll say it is interesting how tight-lipped they've been so far, and for so long. This would be highly unusual in the US. There are probably very good reasons for this, but I understand why it's frustrating for many people. This is a complex, sensitive, and high-profile case that may not be nearly as obvious and straightforward as many people think. We don't know what we don't know.

Indeed, it's been stated publicly that there is no significant link between the cases of Frib and Maddy. No direct connection. After learning about this case, I continue to have the same question as this author though.


That's not to say his case isn't relevant. Through it, I've gotten a better understanding as to some of the general factors in the area that could've also had an impact on Maddy's case. For example, mistrust of LE or threats from dangerous people.


[Side note - I don't buy the pure robbery story or think it adequately explains Frib's terrible fate. I think his family deserves to know. 'Unknown reason'?!]

"For some unknown reason his head was left in a nearby vacant house, where it was discovered three weeks later when investigators found Bjornson's abandoned truck nearby."


At the end of the day he was a person who was loved by his family and friends, was taken from them too soon, and is dearly missed. As was Maddy.

"If you can show me anybody in the world who was perfect, I'll take a check and see," Frederick Bjorson said.

 
"Common sense dictates that Jordy was a suspect. She was one of the last people ... who spoke with Maddy," said Sgt. Ken Floyd of the RCMP. [Therefore, which other people does common sense dictate were also suspects?]
Exactly, there were waaaay better suspects than Jordy almost right from the beginning...... but no talk of them at all. Why didn't they go into detail about them? (these 'brothers' are not stupid either, they knew.... did RCMP really think they could 'mislead' them???)

*Jordy wasn't the last to leave she left 1 am, about two hours before the end of the party.
 
I kind of disagree with what your local friend said. I think the RCMP did absolutely everything they could and never stopped working at it. If you talk to the Scott family they’ll tell you the same thing. Some people may have spoke to the RCMP with information and felt it wasn’t taken seriously or whatever, there are tons of reasons why they may have seemed uninterested. Because we don’t ever know fully what they know or what they’re up to. As well as how many ridiculous tips they have to follow up on. I’ve heard tons of stories of some of our locals wasting their time entirely. Imagine with all the info they had gathered and still having to sit down and listen to the local self proclaimed psychic insist on telling you about the dream she had that maddy is living in Austria back packing (I’m not even kidding, maybe not exactly that fairytale but ones just like it) those were the people running around saying the cops weren’t doing anything. Anyone involved will tell you they truly worked their asses off, and still are out there now on that property making sure they sift through every inch of it. We don’t know enough details right now to even know truly how the case had a break, or who specifically was responsible for the break. There’s literally no verified information right now as to how her remains were found. That’s ALL local gossip. So until the story comes out from the RCMP, all these theories are mostly really big reaches.

Another thing I want to add, it is very much verified that fribjons murder had absolutely nothing to do with maddy. I know fribjons family and they suffered a literal nightmare. When that 48 hrs thing came out painting him in a bad light it was a heart break all over again for them. And now here we go again with it. Can we leave that alone, for real. I feel so bad people are still trying to connect him. It’s literally verified by both families and the police it’s not connected so in the same way you can’t post here info that’s not verified, you shouldn’t be posting theories about people who are verified to NOT be connected.
Thanks for your elaborating! I pretty much agree with all you said.

IF RCMP was 100% on those 'farm' brothers all the time then I do understand they ignored some other leads.
(I'm not talking about 'Flat Earth or 'Elvis is alive' kind of people here)
And that RCMP spokesman in the 'Vanishing' documentary really pissed of some people for sure. Maybe it was a tactic to let these brothers think they could get away with it, who knows. But like I said in the post here above these brothers aren't stupid either....
Therefore it would have been wiser for that spokesman to say less, and not 'frustrate' a whole bunch of people who felt not taken seriously.....
 
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IF RCMP was 100% on those 'farm' brothers all the time then I do understand they ignored some other leads.
(I'm not talking about 'Flat Earth or 'Elvis is alive' kind of people here)
You understand ignoring valid leads caused by being blindsided with already chosen narrative?
 
You understand ignoring valid leads caused by being blindsided with already chosen narrative?
Sure. But sometimes agency's are 'understaffed', tight budget etc. Even if they want they just can't follow every lead they got. They have to make decisions sometimes...... And they have a lot more crimes to solve than Maddy's case. However I think they lacked some communication towards the public..... And sometimes 100% is 100%, for instance check the 'Murdaugh' case', that to me is 100%. Sorry if some folkes still think different....

(no, I don't expect them to tell everything they know to public, that's something else)
 
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Sure. But sometimes agency's are 'understaffed', tight budget etc. Even if they want they just can't follow every lead they got. They have to make decisions sometimes...... And they have a lot more crimes to solve than Maddy's case. However I think they lacked some communication towards the public..... And sometimes 100% is 100%, for instance check the 'Murdaugh' case', that to me is 100%. Sorry if some folkes still think different....

(no, I don't expect them to tell everything they know to public, that's something else)
That's also the issue pretty much every investigator has to face but the basic rules say that all leads should be followed, and even if some hard decisions had to be made (as choosing the most promising leads cause of tight budget, lack of staff and limited time) resulting with only the most promising leads being investigated, then still ignoring any valid leads is criminal attitude and if consistently applied to all cases will result with lots of false convictions and increasing lack of trust from the public - eventually causing LE to have it harder every time.

Rarely anything is ever 100%. JMO. Investigator can be pretty sure, or even like 98% confident that he "knows what happend" or "who's responsible" for the crime, but still, there is no telling if some leads delivered by the public, if followed wouldn't help to solve some other case.
Understanding limitations is one thing, but understanding blindsided approach is another thing.
 
Rarely anything is ever 100%. JMO. Investigator can be pretty sure, or even like 98% confident that he "knows what happend" or "who's responsible" for the crime, but still, there is no telling if some leads delivered by the public, if followed wouldn't help to solve some other case.
Lets agree to disagree on that.
But you're right I think every serious lead still should be investigated.
The RCMP didn't, do I think they are 'criminal'? no, there still can be good reasons. Sometimes a lead for us maybe look serious but is dismissed by RCMP because of other evidence they have.
I'm certainly not 100% in Madison's case yet, and I do question the investigation strategy, some things just don't add up. Hopefully later on they can release information that will explain a bit.
Till two weeks ago I think the Madison case was a pretty cold one with no progress at all. I think RCMP was just lucky OR maybe they did something 'brilliant'. Anyways I'm very glad that the RCMP for sure does have their 'suspects' now.....
 
Exactly, there were waaaay better suspects than Jordy almost right from the beginning...... but no talk of them at all. Why didn't they go into detail about them? (these 'brothers' are not stupid either, they knew.... did RCMP really think they could 'mislead' them???)

*Jordy wasn't the last to leave she left 1 am, about two hours before the end of the party.
It's rare for gov't investigators to publicly accuse or discuss specific active suspects who are not yet charged in a case. More common for them to talk about cleared suspects, as we saw in this case. They don't want to show their hand unless absolutely necessary, and pushing too hard can cause people to cease any cooperation that may have existed. Also possible defamation and legal issues if they publicly accuse innocent people.

Yes, RCMP investigators definitely capable of trying to mislead suspects if it they think it will help their case. Read up on 'Mr. Big stings' to get an idea of how elaborate the deception activities can be. No idea what tactics have been used specifically in Maddy's case though obviously.

 
The dealers, described by the town as being from a “violent gang,” don’t want cops investigating their business, and the group of friends are terrified enough to comply. Madison’s body is hidden on the property where she was found. Perhaps because the two brothers who live at that property volunteered, or were paid to help out. They bring their quads to the lake to avoid evidence showing up in anyone’s vehicle and so that they can more easily hide a body off-road.
What? Described by the town? Described by who? Violent gang? You think they would volunteer to have a person buried on their property? Paid to help out? I'm not sure what kind of place you think we all live in up here, but you got it right when you said a bunch of assumptions.
 
Read up on 'Mr. Big stings' to get an idea of how elaborate the deception activities can be.
Well, a stick and upside down stool in dark, wet basement was and still is very popular among those keen to get fast results - yet is banned where the priority is to put criminals behind bars, not just have it like 60:40 with scapegoats.
 
What? Described by the town? Described by who? Violent gang? You think they would volunteer to have a person buried on their property? Paid to help out? I'm not sure what kind of place you think we all live in up here, but you got it right when you said a bunch of assumptions.
Re: violent gang? Probably is in reference to this. No comment on the rest.

 
Well, a stick and upside down stool in dark, wet basement was and still is very popular among those keen to get fast results - yet is banned where the priority is to put criminals behind bars, not just have it like 60:40 with scapegoats.
I wasn't making any comment about what I think about 'Mr. Big stings' one way or another. Clearly there can be problems and complications resulting from these kinds of tactics. But they've also been used effectively, including in Frib's case.

 
I wasn't making any comment about what I think about 'Mr. Big stings' one way or another. Clearly there can be problems and complications resulting from these kinds of tactics. But they've also been used effectively, including in Frib's case.

You didn't, I commented on it. And I agreed that it's very effective, and so is the method I mentioned. It surely puts someone behind bars and gives community a sense of peace that justice has been served.
"Problems and complications" as you euphemistically describe in reality means innocent people behind bars and criminals walking free. If done to one person, then it's solid base for big money lawsuits. If done to hundreds or thousands, written apology few decades later does the trick.
There is a reason why beating up a suspect into a bloody pulp till he signs his confession isn't widely respected way of solving a case, and so it is with Mr. Big stings.

RCMP's startegy to not release almost anything till they're done has it's advantages as far as investigating cases goes. And so does some amount of desinformation, pressure and so on. But it's also extremely convenient way to hide the fact that they're not investigating some cases at all with other reasons than lack of manpower, leads and fundings.
With Frib IMO in few decades we will see how effective this technique was, but since it's not his thread I'll let the man rest in peace.
So let's agree on disagree on pretty much everything as the other user suggested to me page back.
 

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