Found Deceased Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #8

[Chorley8]

bbm:

I have not found MSM for VM's return to Georgia -- is there a link for that?

What about his wife and son?

1. Yes I didnt link because it was a fund raising site i.e. to raise money for the book and the translation into English and I doubted that is allowed here. Came to me via Facebook. It was supposedly te Dad with a pic and he wrote and stylistically it is like his other comments in media lucid, cogent, concise. He mentions Mariam of course says he doubts the police idea of suicide but that "they" I assume his family don't know what happened to her.

2. But good point he says he is in Georgia doesn't mean he is......but I had read recently in MSM that he wanted to return there....oddly Canadian officials were then saying it might not be easy no idea why....

3. He is obviously not hiding anything in fact he is trying to raise money so I could PM it I think ethically.....or I will ask a mod here but my sense of WS is it might be against rules....it is an interesting piece though

4. No idea about wife and son

 

[newone]

1. Yes I didnt link because it was a fund raising site i.e. to raise money for the book and the translation into English and I doubted that is allowed here. Came to me via Facebook. It was supposedly te Dad with a pic and he wrote and stylistically it is like his other comments in media lucid, cogent, concise. He mentions Mariam of course says he doubts the police idea of suicide but that "they" I assume his family don't know what happened to her.

2. But good point he says he is in Georgia doesn't mean he is......but I had read recently in MSM that he wanted to return there....oddly Canadian officials were then saying it might not be easy no idea why....

3. He is obviously not hiding anything in fact he is trying to raise money so I could PM it I think ethically.....or I will ask a mod here but my sense of WS is it might be against rules....it is an interesting piece though

4. No idea about wife and son

I'd be wondering if it wasn't a scam.....jmo

Perhaps some familiar with immigration law could shed some light - I am ''guessing'' that deportation proceedings take a lot of time.

Other than prepaid airfare why would he want the official ''deportation'' when in fact he could just leave freely now that he's been released?

 

[Chorley8]

I'd be wondering if it wasn't a scam.....jmo

Perhaps some familiar with immigration law could shed some light - I am ''guessing'' that deportation proceedings take a lot of time.

Other than prepaid airfare why would he want the official ''deportation'' when in fact he could just leave freely now that he's been released?

Scam: I really doubt it crowd sourcing is common these days. We have no idea about how he got there and if there I am not sure how it is relevant.

He was never really a suspect in Mariam's death as far as I know of course they initially had to investigate him that would be routine.

It is easy to read into things too much but if he really did get the treatment from Dr. G. and others then he has every right to protest. IMO and yes maybe reading into things too much there is a sense in which the Mariam story is still a very odd one and there is some evidence that the psychological predation on the family began before before Mr. M. was driven to distraction and committed his crimes. I have no idea why that would be however. I havent been thinking about the case too much lately but here are some of the things that remain strange.

1. The search seemed to me to be very showy but not actually thoroughal. Some students not interviewed nearby affluent areas not searched. Things like taking horses through Earl Bales. Sky search boundaries just inside where she was found. According to Outcast pics of Mariam ripped down around Shallmar and school.

2. See Outcasts comments about school etc. she thinks teachers not looked at. Example teacher taking pics constantly of students taking their phones.

3. Lots of odd detail one I will add for first time woman who owned shop who said she Mariam out west related I think to someone at OISE who works with new immigrants. Mariam sighting there ON her birthday.

4. Why guy who gave Mr. M. bail for 50,000 and was later attacked by him in fall of 2009 was doing so much research into building where Mariam backpack was found I have posted this before but it is still online here

http://www.slideshare.net/robertfri...virtual-offices-120-eglinton-ave-east-toronto

5. K at that address had office near where Mariams Mom worked in California

6. No media interviews of "hikers" who found her remains.

7. Bewldering fact she wasnt found by busy golf course and under bridge where people actually live and where construction crews were working see website Golf Nut ( I think?) where golfers discussed their skepticism.

8. Early reports of clothing by woman LE did not sound like her clothing of course maybe got mixed with hers somehow

9. Why were the neighbours who Mr M attacked bothering the family were they facing routine

harrassment?

10. Mr M seemed to be treated sort of gently but harshly in the psychological sense at the same time.

11. on that slideshow above see Georgia Relief Foundation and at that address on Finch Karim A. I am not casting even a shadow of doubt against him or them by the way just odd the bag was found in a location with some much....baggage!

 

[newone]

Why is he ''asking for funding??" -- can't he work?

What is the issue with wanting deportation?? -- that usually takes a lot of time ((years sometimes)) ... if a person wants to leave they usually just leave

 

[Chorley8]

Why is he ''asking for funding??" -- can't he work?

What is the issue with wanting deportation?? -- that usually takes a lot of time ((years sometimes)) ... if a person wants to leave they usually just leave

Any thoughts newone as to what happened to Mariam? sort of sorry I posted that not sure how it is very relevant except I would be interested in his thoughts of what happened to his daughter......

Seems while in custody the authorities disapproved of his research linking to other cases of missing women and girls........sorry I dont have the MSM link to that though it was in several places... they thought it was the continuation of obsession and mental illness

Dont see what is wrong with trying to fund a project surely his options are limited after jail.....and for all we know he may be working.....as for asking to be deported why not get Canada to pay imagine the M's thoughts about Canada daughter gone, before he did anything wrong lots of ignorant and xenophobic remarks by the public

 

[newone]

Given Miriam's short time in Canada my gut impression is that the family does know a lot more than what is being revealed. JMO

Many newcomers arrive and are faced with the daunting task of assimilation. Safety measures are usually paramount to newcomers and I have personally observed excellent buddy systems. JMO

The case is odd but truthfully there is a lot more to the story and I get the sense that VM is not going to engender great support given his actions. JMO

 

[newone]

Any thoughts newone as to what happened to Mariam? sort of sorry I posted that not sure how it is very relevant except I would be interested in his thoughts of what happened to his daughter......

Seems while in custody the authorities disapproved of his research linking to other cases of missing women and girls........sorry I dont have the MSM link to that though it was in several places... they thought it was the continuation of obsession and mental illness

Dont see what is wrong with trying to fund a project surely his options are limited after jail.....and for all we know he may be working.....as for asking to be deported why not get Canada to pay imagine the M's thoughts about Canada daughter gone, before he did anything wrong lots of ignorant and xenophobic remarks by the public

BBM: and what upthread comments re abuse in Detention Center sure sounds like $$$ hunger to me -- looking for an opportunity to cash in on this tragedy.......why does the taxpayer have to fund his ''desire'' to be deported when he is free to go which was what I wanted to discuss without rancor.

It sure sounds to me that he wants to sue someone or have someone give him $$ JMO

 

[Chorley8]

BBM: and what upthread comments re abuse in Detention Center sure sounds like $$$ hunger to me -- looking for an opportunity to cash in on this tragedy.......why does the taxpayer have to fund his ''desire'' to be deported when he is free to go which was what I wanted to discuss without rancor.

It sure sounds to me that he wants to sue someone or have someone give him $$ JMO

I think your comments contradict themselves if he wanted money he would stay here

Anyway he could be any kind of individual totally good to totally bad still seems incidental to Mariam......taxpayers pay for all kinds of things the courts process the search for Mariam incarceration......maybe they are thinking more like you than you think and they think this is the cheapest option......but.....we dont really know what happened...

maybe they want to get rid of him because they do have something to hide whether ill treatment, anything.

Gojer treats high profile cases serial killers etc....is a forensic psychiatrist...... why did they have him on her father?

By the way I think he may at times been just possibly more on track than others thought....there is an interesting Toronto 'golf' and 'golf course' link to one of the objects of his suspicions... I am really good (i.e. bad) at linking too many things together but when I looked myself at one of those objects of his suspicions Eg. north of (for obvious reasons I have to be vague) I found some interesting info about 'them' such as: store Yonge north of Eg. now defunct relation to another Toronto homicide (solved) , some kind of debt problem relating to drug use and abuse....an interest in films and books that you COULD see as echoing the M. case or rather the other way around .......e.g. The Lovely Bones c.f. the theme of the brightly coloured ball c.f. Toronto Sun brightly coloured childs ball found beside Ms remains.....see computer constructed bridge scene and compare to where her bones were found...... I know...no doubt nothing but it was not my daughter yet I could seem how you could get suspicious...I am not saying he noticed this though......I actually first got interested in this by seeing one of the dudes on TV and thinking....phoney and a liar .....started to look at the case

Who were the hikers?

It is easy to check out the scene where she was found by the way people walk their dogs by there then compare to pics earlier on this thread of construction huts nearby workers up half way down the side of the bridge working for months.....utitility hut for city nearby with road in (useful for dumping a body a cul de sac) lots of evidence of beer parties nearby etc.

Then the useful hikers find the remains in the grass. (And the grass is high that is for sure). Note after she was found NO request by LE for motorists to report whether they had scene a woman walking along the ramp one day or night......I dont think they think it happened they just wanted to get rid of the case which had cost a lot

It is interesting that they closed the road afterwards I would guess maybe they wanted to test whether the body could land from the bridge to that spot......now my sense is no but I do not know exactly the X where she was found....saw only the hole in the fence they cut through and some police tape etc

ctv nov 11th 2011

<MODNOTE: Following link provided by Mod. PLEASE REMEMBER TO ADD LINKS>

http://www.ctvnews.ca/unsolved-mystery-what-happened-to-mariam-makhniashvili-1.728051

Ure says he didn't know Mariam at all and has no idea why Makhniashvili suspected he was involved in her disappearance.

Makhniashvili was arrested for the attack. At his bail hearing he received a mysterious offer of help. David and Delores Langer came forward with an offer to post the $50,000 bail for Makhniashvili, a total stranger.

So far the Langers have not explained what motivated them to post bail, although it has been revealed that they had been in contact with the Makhniashvili family via the Internet, using assumed names.

<modsnip>

On W5 show there is a screen shot of ms relatives in Georgia Robert Fridman (aka Langer) is asking about bail who is financing L?

 

[dotr]

Fantasy in some cases may not be considered equally damaging.

http://www.chumfm.com/news/2015/04/...of-t-prof-had-pedophilic-interest-in-children

"Garcia hammered away at Gojer, repeatedly questioning him on Levin's potential to have caused real harm.

``Your diagnosis and rendering of your opinion with regard to risk is premised on Mr. Levin having constrained his offending to the online world,'' Garcia said.

``Meeting a man in person is a departure from that constraining...we're not in the fantasy world any more, we're in reality.''

Levin also had a voice chat with a person he met online, Garcia noted, an occurrence which wasn't noted in Gojer's psychiatric assessment."

 

[Chorley8]

Fantasy in some cases may not be considered equally damaging.

http://www.chumfm.com/news/2015/04/...of-t-prof-had-pedophilic-interest-in-children

"Garcia hammered away at Gojer, repeatedly questioning him on Levin's potential to have caused real harm.

``Your diagnosis and rendering of your opinion with regard to risk is premised on Mr. Levin having constrained his offending to the online world,'' Garcia said.

``Meeting a man in person is a departure from that constraining...we're not in the fantasy world any more, we're in reality.''

Levin also had a voice chat with a person he met online, Garcia noted, an occurrence which wasn't noted in Gojer's psychiatric assessment."

Well off topic but if a person ONLY fantasises whether murder or anything else nobody will know 1984 not having quite arrived yet......

 

[Chorley8]

Given Miriam's short time in Canada my gut impression is that the family does know a lot more than what is being revealed. JMO

Many newcomers arrive and are faced with the daunting task of assimilation. Safety measures are usually paramount to newcomers and I have personally observed excellent buddy systems. JMO

The case is odd but truthfully there is a lot more to the story and I get the sense that VM is not going to engender great support given his actions. JMO

I agree with this overall. But they seem more freaked out and scared to me than involved. There are many reasons they might not want to open up. Why should they trust Canadian institutions? Or people?

They had a buddy system (brother) and within a few metres she was gone.....bizarre of course.....

But OK just to think the other way for a minute.....

1. I admit it is strange LE didnt pressure the brother more to talk and assist....ditto the parents he is only so young.....though to me that is more redolent of the fear.......

2. odd that Mom said "if you dont have your backpack you dont have our number" BUT thinking logicially they must have thought she would have called if she had her backpack since the number was there....and if e.g. she is say tied up then it is irrelevant anyway....

3. it is odd that V. looked at night in the ravines so media said armed ....and she was found in a ravine.....more or less....

4. I admit it is strange that LE accepted the missing between doors theory or seemed to......there is only the say so of one witness of course......

But.....I dont think any of this is the rigiht direction....but just so I dont sound like I am Mariams uncle or aunt!!

Now come on LE...where is the footage of Mariam and brother arriving BACK at Union if that is what they did???

Or where is the footage of them just after the union station shot...they would HAVE to be picked up on a subsequent camera surely???

Is Russel Williams a suspect (?) what is the present consensus if anyone still reads the thread that is...

 

[Chorley8]

1. If for any reason the walk to school school was not true then something would have had to happen to Mariam between her attendance at the dragon boat races and the following morning. ( I state the obvious). But I can not think of a plausible reason since both her brother and mother saw her off minutes apart. Again, I would like to see some images of her coming BACK from the races if there are any. Shouldn't there be?
2. If Mariam and her family went for a walk along the beltline path behind her apt. building in the week/days before she disappeared I would like to know if it was her idea...the route. The little oval park mentioned in the 'Canadian author's book' as a resting spot? Lure of something very very interesting a couple of days later? Tickets to Pinocchio premiere, chance to meet an actor? Any Georgian films on that year or films with actors or technicians in Toronto over those important days?
3. A small tryste romantic or not. Library....beltline with parents Monsieur maybe walking mysteriously romantically past......lure of fake film tickets at library or some other spot like the school if they visiting .......beltline walk to Yonge and Eg. with Monsieur no cameras. Now someone should have seen her at the school but really....walk down the little path then past the front doors down the side by the tennis courts to the beltline. Maybe 20 seconds.
4. The office building behind which her backpack was found has an underground garage that links to the apt. across the street (true?) which links to the strange and interesting 'Mariam captive at an address on Redpath clue' because it is not but could mathematically be the address of the called in clue if numbered differently.
5. Are Georgians still living there as they were several years ago? Could they be asked if anybody suspicious?
6. The backpack: how did it get there? Why did they use the fire department to take off the grille? Is it not open down to the parking garage? Something I dont understand there.
7. Alternatively....if I could have one moment back in my life...the day I went to the backpack address I have said this before nervous young slight pale attractive man 5 foot 9 inches young or young looking say 22 dressed in black with a dressier jacket than average for the time of day and his age comes up to me asks if I want a cigarette. Nervously spitting trying to look casual. I mean really really nervous then walked east on Eg. me behind pretended to look at posters wheeled into small apt. I think the first one walking east but obvious he knew nobody there. at first in parking lot. Who was he? Does fit with the Mariam with a young man story a woman told and some other banter chatter on websites some of it cast in slightly supernatural terms but.....what if that is a a way of telling the truth in a roundabout way?
8. And the time I went to the golf course the young tall red haired man who came up to me and asked why the TTC does not give change then told me to think about it. OK years now since then....Not sure I have been oddly accosted again by a young man in the interim I dont think so...yet happened on the two occasions I did any private sleuthing at the sites.


9 As they say in a cold case time is your friend. Time for someone to do an interview again with the students formally or casually Or an ad in paper with a number to call. Of course you would get lunatics calling. But we dont know we are not looking for a lunatic. I wish I newspaper reporter would take this up.

 

[Chorley8]

http://wwwthatsit.blogspot.ca/

here are the chapter headings.....


Introduction
1. Discovery of "Others"
2. Chemical Persuasion and Coercive Pharmacology
3. Sleep deprivation and Reality
4. The Parallel Functions
5. The Poodle Incubator
6. Uniface Phantoms and the Leakage
7. Millhaven
8. Warkworth -- the Kitchen
9. Hypodermic Terror
10. The Program
11. The Cripples and the Semantics of Slow Death
12. Conceptual Insert

These are the chapter headings of Vakhtang's book now available.
13. The Church
14. Holism
15. In the Cell
16. Failed Conversion
17. Departure
Epilogue

Supplement
Immigrant
Political
Prison Documents

 

[Chorley8]

I will buy when I have cleared my Mastercard next week.

Anyone have thoughts (?) I realize few are looking at this thread.

In terms of of this thread on Mariam, it will be interesting to see what he says about her case....as I understood his previous discussion perhaps not much. I will also be interested to know if there is any indication as to whether he is saying the medical treatment/torture (?) he discusses ( I have not read the book but I remember a very few media comments) is general to the system or has something to do with certain cases...such as Mariam's case.

 

[dotr]

I will buy when I have cleared my Mastercard next week.

Anyone have thoughts (?) I realize few are looking at this thread.

In terms of of this thread on Mariam, it will be interesting to see what he says about her case....as I understood his previous discussion perhaps not much. I will also be interested to know if there is any indication as to whether he is saying the medical treatment/torture (?) he discusses ( I have not read the book but I remember a very few media comments) is general to the system or has something to do with certain cases...such as Mariam's case.

Are you with us Chorley8?
You are missed.

 

[tarabull]

It appears the book is (now) available to download at the link Chorley8 provided to the blog and also in English PDF here http://targetingbrainwashers.blogspot.ca/

 

[Chorley8]

It appears the book is (now) available to download at the link Chorley8 provided to the blog and also in English PDF here http://targetingbrainwashers.blogspot.ca/

I haven't read the book in the way it is meant to be read yet. Will have time this week. There is an appendix on Mariam. Most of the book is on V.M.'s experiences in the Criminal Justice system in Canada. Do not claim to have read absorbed the book yet and it is an interesting provocative book but at one point he estimates (going from memory and a quick total read here only it deserves more time and close attention) that of 30 or so subjects he was the only real one or there may be a couple of others over time the rest being agents of one kind or another. This is in the prison.

First impressions; the royal road to understanding the case goes through Fridman/Langer (just to begin at least). All of his and his (possibly fake wife's) actions have to be scrutinized. He doesn't appear to have been rich and nobody would put up the time and money without a motive. Interesting account of the neighbour whose weird Rosylinish vibe first got me interested in the case. VM says someone was posting phoney *advertiser censored* linking to Mariam in summer 2010. Had never heard of this. He surmises his political movement in articles against American and other imperialistic activity got him put on some type of list. Hope I am not misrepresenting this I will correct after a real reading if so.

If I understand him F/L was insisting Mariam had been kidnapped by a foreign state. Even if this unlikely event was true it is not clear what his interest in this was.

Of course I have wondered if the remains were Mariam's. They had DNA but of course the kidnappers would have her DNA. From media only it DOES seem at the time VM found some version of the international kidnapper idea attractive/real.



I wish I had these early Facebook sites and youtube videos however scurillous it is evidence.

Book dedicated to Mariam's mom Lela and more broadly to the perspective of Whiteheadian Process PhilosoPhy.

 

[Wondergirl]

http://wwwthatsit.blogspot.ca/

here are the chapter headings.....


Introduction
1. Discovery of "Others"
2. Chemical Persuasion and Coercive Pharmacology
3. Sleep deprivation and Reality
4. The Parallel Functions
5. The Poodle Incubator
6. Uniface Phantoms and the Leakage
7. Millhaven
8. Warkworth -- the Kitchen
9. Hypodermic Terror
10. The Program
11. The Cripples and the Semantics of Slow Death
12. Conceptual Insert

These are the chapter headings of Vakhtang's book now available.
13. The Church
14. Holism
15. In the Cell
16. Failed Conversion
17. Departure
Epilogue

Supplement
Immigrant
Political
Prison Documents

Good grief [emoji15]

 

[Chorley8]

Good grief [emoji15]

I assume you think these chapter headings over the top? Actually I think they are attractive.

This site is for Mariam and I still don't think it is that important what her Dad is like (here) except as to how it relates to her case. Though I admit he muddied the waters more than a bit. It is very very interesting that he makes classic 'target' type claims for example of being the only real inmate among 30 or so 'inmates' around him yet all of these top psyches did NOT call him paranoid. Whatever illness he had if he did they though it was transistory and linked to M's disappearance.

It is interesting he says Langer was pushing the international kidnapping theory. V.M. could not understand why though in media he seems to have at times agreed with it. He may have been clutching at straws a bit I mean one minute they are going on little vacations the next minute..........

 

[Chorley8]

after the book itself there is an appendix on Mariam it brief a little obscure but important to read IMO