Found Deceased Canada - Samantha Higgins, 22, LaSalle, QC, 6 July 2015 *Arrest*

[otto]

yes but remember it can take only minutes to form intent

and you can still form intent while in a rage

I think he snapped when he talked to her & she said she was 'having a good time' and that she immediately left because he was angry. I think he was planning it while she walked home. I want to see those texts. JMO

I think Canadian law is different in the sense that there has to be a clear intent to commit murder. It cannot be something that happens a minute prior to the murder ... in Canada, the decision to murder someone a minute prior to committing murder is considered second degree murder.

If he had prepared plastic and tools to cut her up between the time that she went to the party and the time she returned, that constitutes first degree murder.

 

[Kavya01]

It's a dreadful and choking notion. I hope she didn't know, regardless how it all happened. That her cognizance was over instantly.

 

[Fishticon]

His twitter. Only a few tweets and profile pic with daughter.

https://twitter.com/FontanelliMtl

How come there is a girl saying "When can I babysit princess ana?! you and Eric can go on a date"?

Seems strange. Not because he might have been seeing a man named Eric at one point, or even if its a silly inside joke kinda thing; But because why would this "Amber" girl need to babysit his child when there is a mother and grandmother?

 

[Lurkin_girl]

Hi, new member.

Lots of speculation here and I've been drawn by the conversation. Been reading it since yesterday when I stumbled on this website trying to piece together elements I couldn't find to make sense of this story.

I'd just like to make a comment on the timeline. Many of you have stated this timeline didn't make sense. But as all other "facts" discussed here, they mostly come from the media, and when stories like this happen, which garner a lot of attention and put pressure on producing more media content, you can usually follow the trail of cut and paste from older to newer news posts/articles and see how the same facts keep getting repeated without necessarily being (re-)corroborated. So the was it 12-12h30 or 12h30-1? or why would the mother say this time while the friend said that time? and why does none of this concord with the 1h10 am call? - those are all questions that can't be answered without actual access to the phone log and visual evidence of the young girl's departure from the party. I also read there was a cellphone screen grab but I didn't hear about the timestamp on the preceding message. Hard to wrap your mind around how things happened when so much data is missing.

Another point: the mother got her facts from the friends. How reliable is that as a timeline? And many of the friends may have gotten their facts from other friends. Someone here mentioned the neighbourhood was like a big family and everyone knew each other... We learned the boyfriend didn't have a car. Then the media said he did have a car. So everyone speculates and these speculations get mistaken as what happened through the telephone game. Till new facts emerge.

Whatever really happened, I hope it gets exposed in a court of law with real facts from solid sources. I do feel strongly, as many of you, that that the boyfriend is not alright. I can't put my finger on it, but in his interview I felt more than a hearing/language impediment, as I did when I saw the pictures of him in the cop car going to court. He looked like one would position oneself when a plane is about to crash. That was terror, or an incapacity to deal with outside stimuli... Whatever it was, I expect health issues or mental capacity to be a prevalent part of this trial.

Will continue to follow this story closely. My heart goes out to everyone impacted.

 

[otto]

How come there is a girl saying "When can I babysit princess ana?! you and Eric can go on a date"?

Seems strange. Not because he might have been seeing a man named Eric at one point, or even if its a silly inside joke kinda thing; But because why would this "Amber" girl need to babysit his child when there is a mother and grandmother?

That is a good question. The time stamp on the comment is 2013, so the baby must be almost 2 years old. Perhaps, although they met in high school, they were on/off. Samantha had a child at the age of 19, but perhaps their relationship was bumpy - off/on. She lived with her mom when she was pregnant with the second child and moved in with her boyfriend after the baby was born, so they've only lived together for a few weeks during the past year.

I hope that someone will advise Samantha's mom and sisters to immediately start paperwork for sole custody of the children - with immediate day to day care and control. If they delay, the courts could view the current arrangements for the children as "status quo" and it could become more difficult to gain custody or visitation over time. The children may have been part of the motive ... perhaps it was jealousy, where he was insecure in his relationship with her, but it may be that he and perhaps his family wanted control over the children so she was murdered.

Especially if the daughter was living with Samantha and her mom over the past year (my guess is yes), then that child should immediately be returned to the environment she has known over the last year ... and no baby should be left with immediate family of a murderer. If they lived downstairs from where the murder occurred, they had to have heard something. If he was away during the night, they would have known because they would have been looking after the children, and they should have immediately reported that information to police.

If anyone knows Samantha's family, point them in the direction of a good custody lawyer, ask that lawyer to work pro bono, and help them get that ball rolling.

 

[Lurkin_girl]

How come there is a girl saying "When can I babysit princess ana?! you and Eric can go on a date"?

Seems strange. Not because he might have been seeing a man named Eric at one point, or even if its a silly inside joke kinda thing; But because why would this "Amber" girl need to babysit his child when there is a mother and grandmother?

The only thing I found strange about the tweet was the reference to the male date. I would personally send a message like that to a friend who'd had a baby I felt I hadn't spent enough quality time with An infant isn't really "babysittable" so by 2 years old, I'd feel confident enough to boast about my place as the perfect place to drop off cute kid.

What is also strange (but that's me and my non social media ways) is I'd call to impose my proposition.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I think Canadian law is different in the sense that there has to be a clear intent to commit murder. It cannot be something that happens a minute prior to the murder ... in Canada, the decision to murder someone a minute prior to committing murder is considered second degree murder.

If he had prepared plastic and tools to cut her up between the time that she went to the party and the time she returned, that constitutes first degree murder.

However, there are instances in the Criminal Code of Canada where murder is automatically 1st degree murder, whether or not there was clear prior intent, including but not limited to kidnapping, confinement, intimidation, harrassment, threats ...

I Am Not A Lawyer & I'm far too tired - and disheartened by Samantha's death - to go trawl through my law books tonight .

For anyone who does feel like going down a legal rabbit hole:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html, & follow references therein.

Bottom line, IMO, if he's been charged with 1st degree murder, there are reasons & evidence.

 

[otto]

However, there are instances in the Criminal Code of Canada where murder is automatically 1st degree murder, whether or not there was clear prior intent, including but not limited to kidnapping, confinement, intimidation, harrassment, threats ...

I Am Not A Lawyer & I'm far too tired - and disheartened by Samantha's death - to go trawl through my law books tonight .

For anyone who does feel like going down a legal rabbit hole:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html, & follow references therein.

Bottom line, IMO, if he's been charged with 1st degree murder, there are reasons & evidence.

Absolutely ... reasons and evidence ... more than a decision one minute and a deceased person the next.

 

[Mountaingazer]

Eric was her boyfriend at the time, I think the date was just a joke. I always tease and say my husband is going on a date when he and his best friend grab a drink.

 

[Wondergirl]

Police searched Hinchinbrooke and Howick today, looking for more evidence in the case. They used divers, etc. At the video that runs second at this link: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=656835&binId=1.1332485&playlistPageNum=1

Thanks.

I don't think the SOB is telling them where the rest of Samantha's remains are. I think his cell phone information is talking.

JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

Key info here:

Fontanelli is charged with murder in Montreal on July 7, meaning that the killing would have taken place before the body was moved to Hinchinbrooke.

Fontanelli was charged with committing an indignity to a dead body sometime between July 7 and July 9, in both Montreal and Hinchinbrooke, court documents show.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...ase-to-appear-in-court-in-montreal-on-tuesday

 

[dotr]

:Welcome1:

Just want to welcome all the new members to Ws. the extra input has been invaluable to the conversation!

 

[LadyL]

Otto, I disagree.


it can be "simple and need not necessarily be in place for a long period of time"

See R. v. Nygaard, [1989]

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1989/1989canlii6/1989canlii6.html


There does not need to be care consideration of acts. Planning and deliberation can be made out by evidence of even a brief moment of consideration before the act.[10]

See R. v. MacDonald, [2000]

http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nsca/doc/2000/2000nsca60/2000nsca60.html

I think Canadian law is different in the sense that there has to be a clear intent to commit murder. It cannot be something that happens a minute prior to the murder ... in Canada, the decision to murder someone a minute prior to committing murder is considered second degree murder.

If he had prepared plastic and tools to cut her up between the time that she went to the party and the time she returned, that constitutes first degree murder.

Absolutely ... reasons and evidence ... more than a decision one minute and a deceased person the next.

 

[otto]

Otto, I disagree.


it can be "simple and need not necessarily be in place for a long period of time"

See R. v. Nygaard, [1989]

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1989/1989canlii6/1989canlii6.html


There does not need to be care consideration of acts. Planning and deliberation can be made out by evidence of even a brief moment of consideration before the act.[10]

See R. v. MacDonald, [2000]

http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nsca/doc/2000/2000nsca60/2000nsca60.html

I cannot find the phrase you put in italics re MacDonald anywhere on the page, but I did find this:

"What then is the meaning of planned and deliberate and can that classification be applied to the requisite intents set forth in s. 212(a)(ii)? It has been held that “planned” means that the scheme was conceived and carefully thought out before it was carried out and “deliberate” means considered, not impulsive."

http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nsca/doc/2000/2000nsca60/2000nsca60.html

It's late and there are only a few hours before another day starts again, but I am interested in this and will take time to look into it later in the week, as I would like to have a clear understanding.

 

[LadyL]

When I first saw the interview I immediately noticed something was off. I'm not an expert so I can only speculate. Aspergers or autism?

Or Drugs?

I've known two people with similar behaviour (& even appearance, which is interesting) as him. One was schizophrenic and one with aspergers. I have no expertise either but I'm curious.

 

[LadyL]

oops try this link Otto:

section 5(2)

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Homicide#Intent

 

[LadyL]

I agree but terrified of himself in a sense. He will not fare well at all in prison. I wonder if any medical issues will come out that his lawyer may argue contributed to diminished capacity.

I think he was terrified.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I agree but terrified of himself in a sense. He will not fare well at all in prison. I wonder if any medical issues will come out that his lawyer may argue contributed to diminished capacity.

I had problems getting the sound to work when watching that interview (I finally succeeded).

IMO, it's interesting to go back & play the video *without sound*.

Watch his eyes.

I saw terror, extreme anxiety, "flight mode".

JMO.

 

[~n/t~]

How come there is a girl saying "When can I babysit princess ana?! you and Eric can go on a date"?

Seems strange. Not because he might have been seeing a man named Eric at one point, or even if its a silly inside joke kinda thing; But because why would this "Amber" girl need to babysit his child when there is a mother and grandmother?

I don't use Twitter often but what I see is a post to a girl and he says "soon a few things have to be cleared up first". Dec 2013. Could mean anything but I wonder if he and Sam were having relationship issues as far back as 2013?

 

[~n/t~]

Happy 4th Birthday to Samantha's little girl! I hope she will be surrounded by all those who love her dearly. I'm sure mommy is watching down from heaven.