GUILTY Canada - Shannon Burgess, 25, Calgary, 26 Nov 2014 - #4 *Arrest*

[evafiore]

we don't know the whole story until the case comes to trial. yes, he could be a raving lunatic, or they could have gotten into a fight and a typically nice guy may have accidentally mortally injured his wife, panicked and hid her. although after reading accounts of the family spokesperson who spent a lot of time with JB during the last 8 months he was flabbergasted at how 'normal' JB acted, which i find a bit discomforting, but i won't judge... there are several reasons why people might behave this way, from disassociation to sociopathy. we don't know.

as for shannon, we don't know her personally. but i don't think it's immortalizing an angel to say nice things about her, it's more about respect for the dead. i've read rumors she was an escort, other's have heard JB was into meth. i'm not going to believe any of that until i hear proof.

no one is perfect, i know this will probably get a lot of groans, but i didn't find shannon a 'great' actress, but she seemed like a lovely person and was probably very intelligent and funny. i also found JB unattractive but maybe he isn't photogenic. in the end though, i still feel so incredibly bad for shannon, and am very very sad it turned out this way. as for JB, i don't know his personality, his mental health, his logic... i reserve the right to wait on an opinion during the case. which i hope answers questions. i honestly believe he eventually broke down and confessed personally, but that is my own opinion.

things may have been very tense in the household. accidents happen, people panic. people also are evil and kill out of spite or jealousy. in time we will hopefully have some answers. in the meantime i'm just going to try to keep updated and an open mind.

...and this is key to investigating and sleuthing. Seeing things in black and white may simplify things for minds addled by an agonizing grieving process, but if we want to see an accurate picture of what caused this to happen, we can't sensationalize it. Hasty judgment, and dichotomizing evil vs. good does nothing to help understand why things like this happen, nor how they can be prevented in the future.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Well speaking only for myself, I am not here to try and understand the mind and actions of a murderer, I am here to learn about the case and hope for justice for the victim(s). A young woman in the prime of her life was taken far too soon and IMO there are absolutely zero justifiable "reasons" for her being murdered. Clearly her husband is the perp otherwise how was her body found in the home they shared? I highly doubt someone else hid it there, and I highly doubt her husband had no idea it was there. I am tired of violence against women. It's becoming so commonplace, particularly violence against women at the hands of their partners/spouses that I feel as a society we're not taking it seriously enough, in some ways it's being trivialized, people want to understand "why" the partner/husband murdered her..........as if the "why" in any way, shape or form can justify what he did.

The perp here carried on with his life all these months, active on a dating site, had no qualms about hiding various women he had the audacity to date while his wife's decomposing body was hidden, hidden by his hand. This is repulsive and repugnant. And it's also repulsive to me that anyone would bring up her acting career and just how successful (or not) she was in same. What that has to do with her being murdered - nothing. How utterly disrespectful. I hope her husband rots in hades.

...and this is key to investigating and sleuthing. Seeing things in black and white may simplify things for minds addled by an agonizing grieving process, but if we want to see an accurate picture of what caused this to happen, we can't sensationalize it. Hasty judgment, and dichotomizing evil vs. good does nothing to help understand why things like this happen, nor how they can be prevented in the future.

 

[evafiore]

Well speaking only for myself, I am not here to try and understand the mind and actions of a murderer, I am here to learn about the case and hope for justice for the victim(s). A young woman in the prime of her life was taken far too soon and IMO there are absolutely zero justifiable "reasons" for her being murdered. Clearly her husband is the perp otherwise how was her body found in the home they shared? I highly doubt someone else hid it there, and I highly doubt her husband had no idea it was there. I am tired of violence against women. It's becoming so commonplace, particularly violence against women at the hands of their partners/spouses that I feel as a society we're not taking it seriously enough, in some ways it's being trivialized, people want to understand "why" the partner/husband murdered her..........as if the "why" in any way, shape or form can justify what he did.

The perp here carried on with his life all these months, active on a dating site, had no qualms about hiding various women he had the audacity to date while his wife's decomposing body was hidden, hidden by his hand. This is repulsive and repugnant. And it's also repulsive to me that anyone would bring up her acting career and just how successful (or not) she was in same. What that has to do with her being murdered - nothing. How utterly disrespectful. I hope her husband rots in hades.

Trying to understand the mind and actions of a murderer would be the key elements to sleuthing a murder...I assumed (mistakenly it seems, my apologies) that sleuthing is the purpose of this forum.

I'm also tired of violence against women. However, I recognize that to put a stop to it, we must understand why it happens.

 

[pappa rob]

...and this is key to investigating and sleuthing. Seeing things in black and white may simplify things for minds addled by an agonizing grieving process, but if we want to see an accurate picture of what caused this to happen, we can't sensationalize it. Hasty judgment, and dichotomizing evil vs. good does nothing to help understand why things like this happen, nor how they can be prevented in the future.

Trying to understand the mind and actions of a murderer would be the key elements to sleuthing a murder...I assumed (mistakenly it seems, my apologies) that sleuthing is the purpose of this forum.

I'm also tired of violence against women. However, I recognize that to put a stop to it, we must understand why it happens.

I'm sick and tired about violence for both women and men, but understanding it will not make it stop. I'm sure at best we might minimize it, but there's no way to stop it. Thinking that is a pipe dream. Children ought to be taught that violence is unacceptable. I was by my parents and grandparents. When I was young I learned the same stuff at church and school, of course they can't do that at school anymore. Now the children have the TV and internet, they don't have much of a chance to learn much "good" from there, so where does that leave us?

 

[evafiore]

I'm sick and tired about violence for both women and men, but understanding it will not make it stop. I'm sure at best we might minimize it, but there's no way to stop it. Thinking that is a pipe dream. Children ought to be taught that violence is unacceptable. I was by my parents and grandparents. When I was young I learned the same stuff at church and school, of course they can't do that at school anymore. Now the children have the TV and internet, they don't have much of a chance to learn much "good" from there, so where does that leave us?

Yes, by understanding why violence happens, we may minimize it. Saving a few lives is better than nothing. Stating that we should not try to understand because it will never completely stop violence is falling prey to a false dilemma.

Children ought to be taught that violence is unacceptable, though unfortunately there are still many adults who cannot grasp this---we see this in cases ranging from spousal homicide to vigilante "justice." All too often, people argue against violence, yet these same people wish to inflict violence upon a violent individual. Adults need education on violence as well, and they can gain this education through understanding.

Further on that point, everyone needs to be taught about the dangers of black and white thinking, not only for the purposes of upholding rational and constructive dialogue, but for understanding the influence of black and white thinking on decision making and mental health---two factors that, in addition to an individual's upbringing, contribute to violence.

https://kidsthinkingcritically.wordpress.com/thinkingerrors/all-or-nothing-thinking/

 

[dotr]

Hopefully, as an aspiring comic, Shannon would not mind this bit of p. incorrect levity, posted with respect.

[video=youtube;zDh4qk1Tl8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDh4qk1Tl8k[/video]

 

[dotr]

Wonder if and how this case may affect what happens in JB's trial?

http://www.citynews.ca/2015/07/17/s...-trial-for-man-who-buried-victim-in-backyard/

"Supreme Court orders new murder trial for man who buried victim in backyard"
"OTTAWA – The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that just because a killer concealed the body, cleaned up the crime scene and lied to police, the actions do not necessarily prove there was intent to commit murder.

The country’s top court upheld an appeal court ruling Friday that overturned the 2011 second-degree murder conviction of Jason Rodgerson in the death of 21-year-old Amber Young in Oshawa, Ont.

A new trial will be held for Rodgerson, who has admitted he killed Young in 2008 during a drunken, drug-fuelled tryst but claims it was in self defence"

 

[LadyL]

well, of course, that all happened after the fact & has nothing to do with intent, - now if he had pre-dug the hole, that would show intent

Wonder if and how this case may affect what happens in JB's trial?

http://www.citynews.ca/2015/07/17/s...-trial-for-man-who-buried-victim-in-backyard/

"Supreme Court orders new murder trial for man who buried victim in backyard"
"OTTAWA – The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that just because a killer concealed the body, cleaned up the crime scene and lied to police, the actions do not necessarily prove there was intent to commit murder.

The country’s top court upheld an appeal court ruling Friday that overturned the 2011 second-degree murder conviction of Jason Rodgerson in the death of 21-year-old Amber Young in Oshawa, Ont.

A new trial will be held for Rodgerson, who has admitted he killed Young in 2008 during a drunken, drug-fuelled tryst but claims it was in self defence"

 

[otto]

I couldn't agree more. I don't for a minute believe that all of us are capable of murder, that's a crock. Speaking for myself I can't even kill a spider or bug because I respect all living creatures (insects/animals/humans), so there is no way I could ever kill a human being. I've been in very difficult situations in my life, including living with a malicious, psychotic, philandering ex husband - who made my life a living hell for many years........and through the hell there was never a time that I wished him dead or wanted to hurt him, though he surely would have deserved it.

I feel it's a huge slap in the face to victims of murder to make a blanket statement that all of us could kill if in right situation, thereby making a murderer's actions somewhat less selfish and horrific and vile.

Frankly I am astounded by some of the comments in this thread, against Shannon and in many ways defending the man who has been accused of her murder, who we know full well had her body in their home/on their property for a whopping 7 months...........who stood there at the initial family press conference, beside Shannon's own mother who was surely out of her mind with fear and worry and sadness, knowing full well her daughter was there in their shared home, dead as a doornail.

BBM

We are definitely on the same page ... astounded at the comments against Shannon and in defence of a man accused of murdering her.

 

[otto]

...and this is key to investigating and sleuthing. Seeing things in black and white may simplify things for minds addled by an agonizing grieving process, but if we want to see an accurate picture of what caused this to happen, we can't sensationalize it. Hasty judgment, and dichotomizing evil vs. good does nothing to help understand why things like this happen, nor how they can be prevented in the future.

When police lay charges against a suspect, it's black or white. Either they have the evidence, or they don't. There are no shades of grey when it comes to evidence of guilt. What led to Shannon's murder may also be black and white. Perhaps Shannon was financially dependent on Josh, and since she was divorcing him, perhaps he was really angry about her spending his money. Perhaps Shannon was pregnant and Josh was not going to be responsible for some woman getting pregnant with his child. Perhaps Josh was smitten with Shannon and experienced uncontrollable jealousy with the mere thought of her enjoying the company of another man. Whatever it was, Josh flipped a switch and decided that Shannon was not going to have the gift of life any more. It was a black and white moment - no shades of grey.

The shades of grey would be in the build up of financial responsibilities, or the build up to discovering whether there was a pregnancy and the resulting anticipation of the responsibility, or the intense fear of being alone/abandonment/divorce ... who knows. The grey zone happens for some time before murder.

What do we know?

• Josh graduated from SAIT in about 2012 (something like a civil engineering technologist)
• Shannon and Josh met while participating in a medieval dress-up club (year?)
• Shannon started a career in acting in 2013
• Shannon and Josh married in 2014
• Shannon and Josh decided to divorce in 2014 (seven month marriage)
• Josh in stable salaried job
• Shannon working on contract basis with various voice and drama production contracts

Then what happened?


PS: regarding viewing the world in black and white, that is something commonly found in teenagers; most people move beyond that when they reach maturity

 

[otto]

<modsnip> How is guilt explained or defined in shades of grey? Someone either is, or is not, guilty - can't be a bit guilty in the eyes of criminal law.

Reality is that police gather evidence using whatever means available. They present that evidence to the crown prosecutor, who makes a decision as to whether there is sufficient evidence to lay charges. If there are charges, then there is a preliminary hearing to review the evidence and decide whether to proceed to trial. Some suspects waive the preliminary hearing. If the case goes to trial, the decision is black or white ... no shades of grey at any step of the way.

The fact that law is black and white should not be misinterpreted as meaning that one's view is restricted to black and white. The shades of grey occurred prior to the murder, when the suspect was struggling with irreconcilable emotions.

 

[evafiore]

<modsnip> How does is guilt explained or defined in shades of grey? Someone either is, or is not, guilty - can't be a bit guilty in the eyes of criminal law.

Reality is that police gather evidence using whatever means available. They present that evidence to the crown prosecutor, who makes a decision as to whether there is sufficient evidence to lay charges. If there are charges, then there is a preliminary hearing to review the evidence and decide whether to proceed to trial. Some suspects waive the preliminary hearing. If the case goes to trial, the decision is black or white ... no shades of grey at any step of the way.

The fact that law is black and white should not be misinterpreted as meaning that one's view is restricted to black and white. The shades of grey occurred prior to the murder, when the suspect was struggling with irreconcilable emotions.

Could you differentiate between first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, and not guilty (four distinct statuses) using only two categories, while being completely accurate and specific for those who care about details? If the legal system only recognizes black and white, there should only be two possible sentences, no?

 

[otto]

Could you differentiate between first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, and not guilty (four distinct statuses) using only two categories, while being completely accurate and specific for those who care about details?

Two categories is how it works in criminal law. A suspect is either guilty of first degree, second degree, or manslaughter, murder. Alternatively, the suspect is not guilty. There are two distinct categories: guilty or not guilty. If guilty, there are three distinct categories: first, second, manslaughter. It helps to understand the hierarchy. Details are important.

 

[Kavya01]

BBM

We are definitely on the same page ... astounded at the comments against Shannon and in defence of a man accused of murdering her.

Add me to that page, Otto and LazeeDayzee, I've been trying to assert that same point a few pages back on this thread as well.

 

[otto]

Add me to that page, Otto and LazeeDayzee, I've been trying to assert that same point a few pages back on this thread as well.

To suggest that Josh needs embellishment to be clearly understood as a monster is beyond the pale.

To suggest that Shannon needs to be whitewashed to be understood as an aspiring actor with a promising career is bizarre.

 

[evafiore]

Two categories is how it works in criminal law. A suspect is either guilty of first degree, second degree, or manslaughter, murder. Alternatively, the suspect is not guilty. There are two distinct categories: guilty or not guilty. If guilty, there are three distinct categories: first, second, manslaughter. It helps to understand the hierarchy. Details are important.

Thank you, exactly my point. Shades of gray. So best not to sensationalize, and see facts as facts.

 

[evafiore]

To suggest that Josh needs embellishment to be clearly understood as a monster is beyond the pale.

To suggest that Shannon needs to be whitewashed to be understood as an aspiring actor with a promising career is bizarre.

To be clear, I've never embellished the murderer, nor the victim.

 

[otto]

Thank you, exactly my point. Shades of gray. So best not to sensationalize, and see facts as facts.

Great! Let's move forward. The evidence, process, and sentence are black and white. Motive evolves in shades of grey. What happened in this case?

What do we know?

Josh graduated from SAIT in about 2012 (something like a civil engineering technologist)
Shannon and Josh met while participating in a medieval dress-up club (year?)
Shannon started a career in acting in 2013
Shannon and Josh married in 2014
Shannon and Josh decided to divorce in 2014 (seven month marriage)
Josh in stable salaried job
Shannon working on contract basis with various voice and drama production contracts

What happened next?
Did Josh have the townhouse for four years?
Did Shannon move in with him?
Does the townhouse have a couple's requirement?

Do the units come with freezers? ... I'm pretty sure they come with some appliances.

What happened here - in this case. What part of it is black and white, what part is shades of grey?

This is where the sleuthing part comes in ... right?

 

[otto]

This is the co-op info I found at the time of her disappearance (must have been suspecting the husband at the time)

 

[evafiore]

Great! Let's move forward. The evidence, process, and sentence are black and white. Motive evolves in shades of grey. What happened in this case?

What do we know?

Josh graduated from SAIT in about 2012 (something like a civil engineering technologist)
Shannon and Josh met while participating in a medieval dress-up club (year?)
Shannon started a career in acting in 2013
Shannon and Josh married in 2014
Shannon and Josh decided to divorce in 2014 (seven month marriage)
Josh in stable salaried job
Shannon working on contract basis with various voice and drama production contracts

What happened next?
Did Josh have the townhouse for four years?
Did Shannon move in with him?
Does the townhouse have a couple's requirement?

Do the units come with freezers? ... I'm pretty sure they come with some appliances.

What happened here - in this case. What part of it is black and white, what part is shades of grey?

This is where the sleuthing part comes in ... right?

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