CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

[newguy123]

I admit my "wanting to know things" outpaces the investigation. Patience is a virtue, though a frustrating one at times. I was surprised to see media trying to "force" information at this time. Perhaps there is a better way to strike a balance between media and the investigation? I hope so. I believe it was yesterday I posted a question about updates from the RCMP or if more press conferences would be scheduled. I do wish they would do so as it would go a long way to easing our collective minds.

This is off topic to the search warrant issue but in reading some news stories ‘Like a stab wound’: Children of N.S. shooting victims ‘struggling’ after tragedy near the end it quotes McCully's sister "Kierstead said she has forgiven the gunman who she said “wasn’t in his right mind” and is overwhelmed by the support the family has received from the community." Some might see that bit as giving the shooter a free pass.....which is not what I wanted to draw attention to. Rather, they say hatred corrodes the vessel it is carried in. I am humbled that people who are directly hurting so much right now can be "bigger people" than I am ready to be myself. It is a tribute to the fallen, an indication of the quality of people lost. All the fundraising, the memorials and tributes indicate the shooter did not extinguish the "good" in people.

 

[Skibunny]

If it’s confirmed the explosions were indeed caused by ammunition stockpiles, that would seem to indicate quite a large supply. There’s already indications the killer exhibited strong compulsive hoarding tendencies....20 or 30 motorcycles, 4 decommissioned police cruisers, what else we don’t know but I bet there’s more.

To go along with the large number of motorcycles, multiple homes, I am wondering if this guy had zero liquid (cash) savings. Maybe he spent all of his earnings to date on his collections. Plus alcoholism into the mix, and he couldn't think his way out of a financial problem if he had one. If his business was having problems before covid, then he could have really broke at the time of the attack. IMO the answer would have been to sell some houses, and some bikes, get sober and build his business back up. That would involve taking personal responsibility for his future, which his malignant narcissism wouldn't allow.

“Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Nova Scotia RCMP Supt. Darren Campbell said witness reports of "explosions" the night of the deadly Nova Scotia shooting rampage may have been ammunition stockpiles exploding at the shooter's home, as a result of fires Gabriel Wortman, 51, set during his deadly rampage from Saturday night into Monday...”
Nova Scotia shooting: RCMP say witness reports of "explosions" on night of shooting may have been exploding ammunition

 

[ab01]

If it’s confirmed the explosions were indeed caused by ammunition stockpiles, that would seem to indicate quite a large supply. There’s already indications the killer exhibited strong compulsive hoarding tendencies....20 or 30 motorcycles, 4 decommissioned police cruisers, what else we don’t know but I bet there’s more.

“Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Nova Scotia RCMP Supt. Darren Campbell said witness reports of "explosions" the night of the deadly Nova Scotia shooting rampage may have been ammunition stockpiles exploding at the shooter's home, as a result of fires Gabriel Wortman, 51, set during his deadly rampage from Saturday night into Monday...”
Nova Scotia shooting: RCMP say witness reports of "explosions" on night of shooting may have been exploding ammunition

I think the ammunition angle may be a bit misleading as at the press conference the Const Campbell was asked about grenades and although he was evasive in his response. He did say something along the lines because of the damage of the structures we haven't been able to recover much evidence on that aspect. What he did say was that it would in fact be consistent with the ammunition that GW was known to have.

To me it almost sounded like explosives like grenades etc were being included in his statement regarding ammunition. I'm sure GW had a large stockpile of gun ammunition as well but when put into the context with the actual question asked it seems he may very well have been referring to something more sinister IMO

just my take

 

[MistyWaters]

I think the ammunition angle may be a bit misleading as at the press conference the Const Campbell was asked about grenades and although he was evasive in his response. He did say something along the lines because of the damage of the structures we haven't been able to recover much evidence on that aspect. What he did say was that it would in fact be consistent with the ammunition that GW was known to have.

To me it almost sounded like explosives like grenades etc were being included in his statement regarding ammunition. I'm sure GW had a large stockpile of gun ammunition as well but when put into the context with the actual question asked it seems he may very well have been referring to something more sinister IMO

just my take

Yes, it appears the arson investigation hasn’t yet concluded.

On the link I posted is also the video snip from the PC. Supt Campbell mentions “some of our witness statements indicate the gunman had purchased some ammunition, err, or had possessed a significant amount of ammunition.....”. How he obtained it without a PAL would also be something I’m certain the RCMP is presently investigating.

In Canada there’s limitations on the quantity of ammunition that can be acquired and stored. I think 225 kilograms seems surprisingly large although the killer was obviously not obsessed with abiding by the law anyway.

Ammunition | Natural Resources Canada

 

[ab01]

Yes, it appears the arson investigation hasn’t yet concluded.

On the link I posted is also the video snip from the PC. Supt Campbell mentions “some of our witness statements indicate the gunman had purchased some ammunition, err, or had possessed a significant amount of ammunition.....”. How he obtained it without a PAL would also be something I’m certain the RCMP is presently investigating.

In Canada there’s limitations on the quantity of ammunition that can be acquired and stored. I think 225 kilograms seems surprisingly large although the killer was obviously not obsessed with abiding by the law anyway.

Ammunition | Natural Resources Canada

Yah unfortunately if a person is hell bent on acquiring certain illegal things such as handguns and bulk ammunition there’s always going to be ways of getting them.

Most drugs are illegal and have been for decades but people still find a way of acquiring them too.

I’m not sure what the answer is tbh but as long as there are people hell bent on acquiring such things there will always be somebody willing to provide it.

Stiffer consequence will always be a good deterrent, but you’ll never be able to totally eliminate it imo

 

[Skibunny]

If it’s confirmed the explosions were indeed caused by ammunition stockpiles, that would seem to indicate quite a large supply. There’s already indications the killer exhibited strong compulsive hoarding tendencies....20 or 30 motorcycles, 4 decommissioned police cruisers, what else we don’t know but I bet there’s more.

Sorry, mixed my reply into the middle paragraph of thd above post. Haven't posted in a long white-out of practice lol

To go along with the large number of motorcycles, multiple homes, I am wondering if this guy had zero liquid (cash) savings. Maybe he spent all of his earnings to date on his collections. Plus alcoholism into the mix, and he couldn't think his way out of a financial problem if he had one. If his business was having problems before covid, then he could have really broke at the time of the attack. IMO the answer would have been to sell some houses, and some bikes, get sober and build his business back up. That would involve taking personal responsibility for his future, which his malignant narcissism wouldn't allow.

“Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Nova Scotia RCMP Supt. Darren Campbell said witness reports of "explosions" the night of the deadly Nova Scotia shooting rampage may have been ammunition stockpiles exploding at the shooter's home, as a result of fires Gabriel Wortman, 51, set during his deadly rampage from Saturday night into Monday...”
Nova Scotia shooting: RCMP say witness reports of "explosions" on night of shooting may have been exploding ammunition

 

[MistyWaters]

If it is okay to post an opinion about the investigation - Much as I (and I imagine thousands + other people) want to know what happened out of concern (or mostly curiosity), I really disagree with the media's rush to get inside the investigation. Obviously, there are important questions to be answered that do involve public interest (such as warnings to the public, gun procurement, questions around domestic violence, and other safety issues), but I really can't understand how the media imagines they serve the public good by nipping at the heels of the investigation. It is a waste of public resources for the sake of "click-bait", in my opinion, and means investigators have to direct time and resources from a very complex investigation to deal with these questions.

I agree, “click-bait”.

Although criticism has arisen regarding the RCMP, in my opinion they’ve been quite forthcoming with information relating to the timeline considering the complexity of the investigation, still in the early stages.

Search warrants are not proof of anything other than investigative activity that’s taking place yet the public sometimes jumps to conclusions leading toward harmful speculation. Enough people have already been devastated as it is, no need for CBC to add to it IMO.

 

[paganini]

I admit my "wanting to know things" outpaces the investigation. Patience is a virtue, though a frustrating one at times. I was surprised to see media trying to "force" information at this time. Perhaps there is a better way to strike a balance between media and the investigation? I hope so. I believe it was yesterday I posted a question about updates from the RCMP or if more press conferences would be scheduled. I do wish they would do so as it would go a long way to easing our collective minds.

This is off topic to the search warrant issue but in reading some news stories ‘Like a stab wound’: Children of N.S. shooting victims ‘struggling’ after tragedy near the end it quotes McCully's sister "Kierstead said she has forgiven the gunman who she said “wasn’t in his right mind” and is overwhelmed by the support the family has received from the community." Some might see that bit as giving the shooter a free pass.....which is not what I wanted to draw attention to. Rather, they say hatred corrodes the vessel it is carried in. I am humbled that people who are directly hurting so much right now can be "bigger people" than I am ready to be myself. It is a tribute to the fallen, an indication of the quality of people lost. All the fundraising, the memorials and tributes indicate the shooter did not extinguish the "good" in people.

I'm glad that you wrote this, because I struggled with Ms Kierstead's sentiment until I read your point of view.

 

[girlhasnoname]

o/t but some good news for the people of Nova Scotia (& of WS!)

A desperate search for a missing 3-year-old ends with a wonderful word: 'Doggy'

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/missing-3-year-old-search-dog-handler-musquodoboit-1.5549092?__vfz=medium=sharebar&fbclid=IwAR0-Opt9tVSs0dcMpGmV4rUWmRidPvUchJB0Vc63hKpn-lI2b5qEJCZYwBI

Love our 4 legged furry angels!

 

[mcdonalds]

Thinking on the timeline of the police response vs the sheer chaos that was happening in the Portapique area.

The police state the 911 call came in around 10pm (shots fired) and they responded at 1026 (on scene) and (eventually a witness)confirmed the shooter had left the area by 1035.

If I recall ~ CBC had an article on April 28 ~ regarding the time lines and stated that the domestic assault started at the party and that a 911 call regarding the domestic assault came in prior to 10pm. Though they don't say the exact time.

Curiosity in me asks:

~was the first call reporting the domestic assault possibly made from someone at the party between 9-10pm who perhaps witnessed the start of the altercation. Would there be recordings of the 911 calls prior to 10pm? Would police already have been en-route for a disturbance?

~ would 26 minutes have been enough time to return home from the party, significantly injure and bind the girlfriend, return to the party, kill multiple people in various locations and go door to door setting fire to so many places, change into a uniform, get in a fake cruiser and then leave the area by 1035 through a field?

It seems like some distance to cover in a short time span if he started this shortly before 10pm, Or am I just simply missing something..?

 

[tayaway]

Are you referring to this CBC article? I can't find any mention of a 911 call for the domestic assault, which happened at some point before 10. There was roughly 35 minutes from the time of the first 911 call (10:01) about a shooter until he drove the mock police car through a field (10:35). He began the first attacks on neighbors before that call. It's a short distance, especially with a car. It's a very confusing timeline, but he assaulted his gf before the clock starts.

 

[brickroad]

I am in awe of how one person could wreak all this mayhem in such a short time too, mcdonalds. I guess all will be revealed in time.

 

[newguy123]

I have wondered too how he could accomplish so much evil in so short a time. He could have prepared his own buildings in advance, but how do you do that to the other homes in so little time? That no one escaped from any of the buildings on fire would indicate to me the fires were helped thru some sort of chemical means. (I live in the country and when we burn off brush, it takes awhile to get the fire really going. And this is in broad daylight, legally, with no fear of getting caught).
I wonder if he even knew his g/f escaped. He might have left her to be burned alive.

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM, news report dated today.

Nova Scotia mass killer should be subjected to psychological autopsy: Experts
“......The Mounties have said little about possible motives behind one of the worst mass killings in Canadian history. But experts say police could use an unusual tool to help them find answers.

It’s called a psychological autopsy — an investigative technique that goes well beyond regular forensic analysis.

When asked if this approach was an option for the RCMP, spokeswoman Cpl. Jennifer Clarke said the Mounties would be providing an update on their investigation as early as today...”

 

[paganini]

I will be well and truly shocked if he managed all of this in less than an hour from the time he left the get-togenther / party and assaulted his common-law. The only possible way would have been if he had the night of the 18th planned and ready to go. The car was on a property next to his house (I think). He would have had it loaded with his guns, ammunition, and stuff he planned to use for fires (or fires ready to be set). It seems he had to have put this stuff together previously, getting ready. Otherwise, he would have had to run around his shop (or whatever) throwing stuff together. Change.

*I guess one could start the clock from this point (assuming there was no prior 911 call). Now he has to go from house to house, spread out over a couple of kilometres (perhaps shooting, and then going back to torch), go into the house that he went into looking for the Blair children, look for Ellison who fled to the bush for a minute, and make his exit. I suppose I can imagine that took place in less than an hour.

It occurs to me that the first call could have been about a domestic dispute. It seems the people who witnessed an argument between him and his common law earlier stayed at the gathering, perhaps discussing what had happened. Some knew his reputation. Perhaps they heard some commotion start up at * (above), thought it at his home and related to the earlier argument, and called police reporting it as a domestic.

 

[mcdonalds]

Are you referring to this CBC article? I can't find any mention of a 911 call for the domestic assault, which happened at some point before 10. There was roughly 35 minutes from the time of the first 911 call (10:01) about a shooter until he drove the mock police car through a field (10:35). He began the first attacks on neighbors before that call. It's a short distance, especially with a car. It's a very confusing timeline, but he assaulted his gf before the clock starts.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...ing-unfolded-in-central-nova-scotia-1.5547747

 

[tayaway]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...ing-unfolded-in-central-nova-scotia-1.5547747

This article doesn't say anything either about there being a 911 call for the domestic assault. The short timeline does not include the assault, it begins with the 911 call about a shooter.

 

[mcdonalds]

This article doesn't say anything either about there being a 911 call for the domestic assault. The short timeline does not include the assault, it begins with the 911 call about a shooter.

within the article:
"April 18

Some time before 10 p.m. — Gabriel Wortman, 51, assaults his girlfriend in the Portapique area. A 911 call comes in about an assault between him and someone he knows. She escapes into the woods where she hides overnight.

Portapique is a small, wooded community along the Bay of Fundy roughly 40 kilometres west of the town of Truro. About 100 residents live there year-round."

 

[Oscarjackson12]

within the article:
"April 18

Some time before 10 p.m. — Gabriel Wortman, 51, assaults his girlfriend in the Portapique area. A 911 call comes in about an assault between him and someone he knows. She escapes into the woods where she hides overnight.

Portapique is a small, wooded community along the Bay of Fundy roughly 40 kilometres west of the town of Truro. About 100 residents live there year-round."

I think it is still too soon to say much. Sometime before 10 leaves a lot of vagueness about when things started. Hopefully they have another press conference soon but who knows.

I know someone had a comment a lot earlier in this thread that N.S. RCMP wouldn’t have enough expertise but that I disagree with. They will have all types of expertise within the RCMP helping them. They are a huge organization.

 

[tayaway]

within the article:
"April 18 Some time before 10 p.m. — Gabriel Wortman, 51, assaults his girlfriend in the Portapique area. A 911 call comes in about an assault between him and someone he knows. She escapes into the woods where she hides overnight."

Ok, got it. There's an earlier 911 call before 10 and it's implied that it has to do with the domestic assault. My apologies! The argument, the assault, and returning to shoot people all happened before the 10:01 911 call. Did the police respond to the 911 call that occurred before 10?