CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #3

[newguy123]

Just so I am clear......as there are a lot of terms used loosely at times.......
* the g/f removed herself as executrix
* it says the will was "renounced". Does this mean all of the shooters "last wishes" are no longer required to be put in place?
* g/f is now on a par with the class action group in claiming a share of the estate. But having her initial status as sole heir renounced, she is no longer "first among equals" but rather, on equal footing as all other claims?

Who pays out for the fires? The Gulenchyn house was burned and in theory an insurance payment would be made to their heirs. But, does that company then go after the shooter's estate to claim money since his arson activity was the cause?

In the case of life insurance.....if someone has a life insurance policy and they die, the payment is made out to the beneficiaries. But would that company also go after the shooter's estate since he caused the deaths?

If he owned a house and burned it down, would that not void his insurance and therefore no payment would be made? This would mean the estate value would be dropping quickly. I can see the value of his estate dropping quickly. And of course, any taxes or mortgage outstanding will be paid off first, so the pool of resources for the families of victims is shrinking rapidly.

In his will he wished to be buried at Portapique. I heard people objecting to this. What happens, or has happened to him and his burial wishes. I can see a marked grave at Portapique being defaced in short order if he did end up there.

 

[tayaway]

Just so I am clear......as there are a lot of terms used loosely at times.......
* the g/f removed herself as executrix
* it says the will was "renounced". Does this mean all of the shooters "last wishes" are no longer required to be put in place?
* g/f is now on a par with the class action group in claiming a share of the estate. But having her initial status as sole heir renounced, she is no longer "first among equals" but rather, on equal footing as all other claims?

This is what I thought as well, but according to Tighthead's link,

Read the correction at the bottom here.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/portapique-shooting-gunman-estate-will-partner-1.5612761

Corrections

• The Canadian Press erroneously reported in a June 15 story that the girlfriend of the gunman who carried out a mass shooting in Nova Scotia had renounced her claim to his estate. In fact, the probate court document says only that the woman renounced her right to be executor of Gabriel Wortman's estate.
  Jun 18, 2020 6:06 PM AT

 

[Tighthead]

Just so I am clear......as there are a lot of terms used loosely at times.......
* the g/f removed herself as executrix
* it says the will was "renounced". Does this mean all of the shooters "last wishes" are no longer required to be put in place?
* g/f is now on a par with the class action group in claiming a share of the estate. But having her initial status as sole heir renounced, she is no longer "first among equals" but rather, on equal footing as all other claims?

Who pays out for the fires? The Gulenchyn house was burned and in theory an insurance payment would be made to their heirs. But, does that company then go after the shooter's estate to claim money since his arson activity was the cause?

In the case of life insurance.....if someone has a life insurance policy and they die, the payment is made out to the beneficiaries. But would that company also go after the shooter's estate since he caused the deaths?

If he owned a house and burned it down, would that not void his insurance and therefore no payment would be made? This would mean the estate value would be dropping quickly. I can see the value of his estate dropping quickly. And of course, any taxes or mortgage outstanding will be paid off first, so the pool of resources for the families of victims is shrinking rapidly.

In his will he wished to be buried at Portapique. I heard people objecting to this. What happens, or has happened to him and his burial wishes. I can see a marked grave at Portapique being defaced in short order if he did end up there.

The will isn’t renounced, not sure who reported that but it’s not really a thing. The will is valid and probated, nobody has challenged it.

She is still beneficiary but the liabilities of the estate will likely bankrupt it. Judgement creditors will share in the estate on a pro rata basis. At the time she renounced she was not first among equals; the plaintiffs would rank in priority to her. They represent a liability for the estate; as a residual beneficiary she would inherit after the payment of liabilities.

I’m not sure about life insurance companies making a claim, but it is possible that property insurers will go after the estate for arsons. In a similar vein, he voided any insurance coverage on his own properties by criminal action.

I believe the executor is required to provide an updated accounting of the assets soon, at that point we should have a much better idea of what is actually there. This will be highly scrutinized.

As for his last wishes, it is my understanding that such instructions are not binding in a will. I suspect the executor consulted with the family prior to making any arrangements.

 

[newguy123]

Thank you for clarifying things.

 

[deugirtni]

The will isn’t renounced, not sure who reported that but it’s not really a thing. The will is valid and probated, nobody has challenged it.

She is still beneficiary but the liabilities of the estate will likely bankrupt it. Judgement creditors will share in the estate on a pro rata basis. At the time she renounced she was not first among equals; the plaintiffs would rank in priority to her. They represent a liability for the estate; as a residual beneficiary she would inherit after the payment of liabilities.

I’m not sure about life insurance companies making a claim, but it is possible that property insurers will go after the estate for arsons. In a similar vein, he voided any insurance coverage on his own properties by criminal action.

I believe the executor is required to provide an updated accounting of the assets soon, at that point we should have a much better idea of what is actually there. This will be highly scrutinized.

As for his last wishes, it is my understanding that such instructions are not binding in a will. I suspect the executor consulted with the family prior to making any arrangements.

So... it's no wonder she had to get her claim in, since there will likely be nothing left of his estate after other claims are paid out. Although I suppose if he had good life insurance policies, she may still benefit from the payout of those, unless there was a stipulation that it didn't cover certain things.. I wonder if life insurance policies pay out if you are killed by cops after committing criminal acts?

 

[Tighthead]

So... it's no wonder she had to get her claim in, since there will likely be nothing left of his estate after other claims are paid out. Although I suppose if he had good life insurance policies, she may still benefit from the payout of those, unless there was a stipulation that it didn't cover certain things.. I wonder if life insurance policies pay out if you are killed by cops after committing criminal acts?

The answer is if course, rarely simple.

https://www.lavery.ca/DATA/PUBLICAT...nt-beneficiary-to-the-insurance-indemnity.pdf

 

[Tighthead]

Thank you for clarifying things.

I don’t think an life insurer can subrogate against someone who causes death, as the estate does not have a cause of action.

 

[newguy123]

What a mess.

 

[newguy123]

Just saw this and thought I'd post the link.
Parade honours mass shooting victims in N.S.

I think Joy Bond's brother said it well when he said "never be an answer to this whole thing"

 

[Errrr]

That’s CBC for ya!!!

That’s how all news reporters are. They just appoint a random reporter as their -insert subject matter-expert.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just saw this and thought I'd post the link.
Parade honours mass shooting victims in N.S.

I think Joy Bond's brother said it well when he said "never be an answer to this whole thing"

What a amazingly thoughtful show of respect toward the Bond family, the parade lasted over an hour. I can sure understand why they were overwhelmed and deeply touched.

 

[Scoobydo2]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...er-griffon-printed-fake-rcmp-decals-1.5695505

CBC news article saying that Peter Griffon, the criminal neighbor who printed the decals for the mock RCMP cruiser was sent back to jail on May 5. Interesting that during the April 28 RCMP news conference Supt. Darren Campbell said the witness had co-operated with them but as it turns out, he actually lied to them.

 

[newguy123]

I remember Campbell saying they were cooperating......very interesting. It is also interesting how Griffon did work for cash at the shooter's properties in Portapique....which makes the connection between the two even stronger.
My gut reaction was thinking back to Paul Palango's story of connection between Griffon, the shooter, drug cartels, and even a connection to the Mccleod family. I don't want to get drawn into conspiracy theories but....wow.....that was my first reaction.

 

[jillybean51]

I remember Campbell saying they were cooperating......very interesting. It is also interesting how Griffon did work for cash at the shooter's properties in Portapique....which makes the connection between the two even stronger.
My gut reaction was thinking back to Paul Palango's story of connection between Griffon, the shooter, drug cartels, and even a connection to the Mccleod family. I don't want to get drawn into conspiracy theories but....wow.....that was my first reaction.

Mine too!

 

[MistyWaters]

I remember Campbell saying they were cooperating......very interesting. It is also interesting how Griffon did work for cash at the shooter's properties in Portapique....which makes the connection between the two even stronger.
My gut reaction was thinking back to Paul Palango's story of connection between Griffon, the shooter, drug cartels, and even a connection to the Mccleod family. I don't want to get drawn into conspiracy theories but....wow.....that was my first reaction.

If there was a conspiracy, why would the RCMP search for the source of the decals? Perhaps Griffon became “co-operative” after the proof was put in front of his face. The killer was obviously not of stellar character considering his illegal weapons so that he would gravitate toward association with unsavoury characters isn’t surprising to me.

“After RCMP searched the sign shop where Griffon worked, investigators determined he printed the decals without his employer's permission in 2019. The parole records characterize the production of the decals as "workplace theft" and said police also found a photo of them on Griffon's phone.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...er-griffon-printed-fake-rcmp-decals-1.5695505

 

[Satchie]

I remember Campbell saying they were cooperating......very interesting. It is also interesting how Griffon did work for cash at the shooter's properties in Portapique....which makes the connection between the two even stronger.
My gut reaction was thinking back to Paul Palango's story of connection between Griffon, the shooter, drug cartels, and even a connection to the Mccleod family. I don't want to get drawn into conspiracy theories but....wow.....that was my first reaction.

Technically, Palango was accurate, there was a 'connection' in the sense of 6 degrees of separation. The shooter knew Griffon after G got out on parole, and Griffon had smuggled cocaine in Edmonton in 2014.

The error the rumour mill then made was to assume that the NS shooter was also smuggling cocaine in Edmonton in 2014. I have no doubt this was Palango's intent in making his coy statements, which would be frowned on by most journalists as lacking integrity.

 

[newguy123]

Please understand I did not mean to push forward that Palango's who theory was true, just that his connections proved accurate. It does not explain the incidents in Portapique. Why set fire to the Gulenchyn home because a biker gang is after you? Or shoot the Bonds? I have never heard him explain how those incidents connect......He speaks of drugs, smuggling, guns and large sums of cash but never seems to speak of the the Tucks, or Zahls.
The shooter strikes me as a manipulator, so I can see him using his "employment" of Griffon as leverage to get the decals. I doubt he employed him out of the goodness of his heart.....it was because he could use him for something.

 

[MistyWaters]

Please understand I did not mean to push forward that Palango's who theory was true, just that his connections proved accurate. It does not explain the incidents in Portapique. Why set fire to the Gulenchyn home because a biker gang is after you? Or shoot the Bonds? I have never heard him explain how those incidents connect......He speaks of drugs, smuggling, guns and large sums of cash but never seems to speak of the the Tucks, or Zahls.
The shooter strikes me as a manipulator, so I can see him using his "employment" of Griffon as leverage to get the decals. I doubt he employed him out of the goodness of his heart.....it was because he could use him for something.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree, there is no possible conspiracy theory that can justify anyone killing 22 innocent people. Shortly after the Las Vegas shooting, ridiculous rumours ran rampant that Paddock was an FBI informant who knew too much about something and he wasn’t the real shooter, then either the FBI or whoever he was informing on (stories varied) murdered him. Even back then nobody was able to come up with a successful story regarding why wouldn’t somebody just take out Paddock....why shoot all those innocent people attending the concert? Obviously that conspiracy theory proved to be utter hogwash.

Palango’s conspiracy theory regarding this shooting strongly resembles that same pattern except it’s even more nonsensical because there’s no denying what’s-his-name was the killer because some of his intended victims survived.

Why conspiracy theorists are attracted to the notion of police informants massacring innocent people, I have no idea.

I agree I also can see GW leveraging information, even if it wasn’t true, to get the decals from Griffon.

 

[newguy123]

In the void of information, theories like his take hold and grow. People are still trying to make sense of it all and grasp at some sort of story line which will explain things......put some sort of order to random acts. With little new info being released thru official channels, in the ensuing darkness. conspiracies flourish.
I did not mean to take anyone down that rabbit hole of conspiracy thinking!

 

[MistyWaters]

In the void of information, theories like his take hold and grow. People are still trying to make sense of it all and grasp at some sort of story line which will explain things......put some sort of order to random acts. With little new info being released thru official channels, in the ensuing darkness. conspiracies flourish.
I did not mean to take anyone down that rabbit hole of conspiracy thinking!

I think public expectations for quick endings sometimes come from movies and books. Had GW been arrested and tried, it probably would’ve been at least two years before the trial/s and evidence would’ve been gathered during that time with not one peep released. He’d probably have plead not guilty, perhaps a couple of defense psychiatrists would’ve proclaimed him insane so there would be a chance of an NCR defense. I don’t believe for a moment he would’ve plead guilty, asked for forgiveness, recounted a true or understandable recap of not only murdering rampage but his life’s story as well. Every family of every victim is still faced with unanswered questions as to Why? That he’s no longer alive is the best possible ending for him IMO.

So the way I see it, it was a tragedy he took the lives of 22 innocent people. More information seems to attract more speculation but it’s still not answers. I think the families deserve to know as much as police are able to tell them. But I’m not so sure they’ll learn much of anything from this inquiry or even if the victims families are united in their expectations. As long as the families are eventually able to move forward, that as much as I’d like to know. During these past few months what I’ve often been reminded of is how anger and blame are a normal part of the grieving process (why it’s not unusual for the relationship between adult children to go downhill immediately after the death of a beloved parent, unfortunately). But doesn’t the media just love to interview people when their emotions are high.

I recall last summer when the two young men in BC murdered 3 innocent people and then fled to Manitoba. There was high expectations about the information the RCMP should release including their entire life story, the family backgrounds, how the Professor was murdered, release of the videos taken by the killers, and more....but none of that came to pass and frankly, I don’t think any of us who never knew anyone directly involved really needed to know because the two young men didn’t deserve any more notoriety than they already got. It stands as great a tragedy with or without additional information. I feel the same way about this killer.

JMO