GUILTY Canada - Taylor Van Diest, 18, beaten to death, Armstrong, BC, 31 Oct 2011

[matou]

I was also thinking that he could have been wearing a mark or costume since it was Halloween.

Wondergirl: Exactly, why was he in Armstrong THAT night? For a party, for work? Does he have family or friends in town? A girlfriend?

 

[matou]

Did this guy have any tattoos? Piercings? I guess the 1st victim would have to recall and it's possible this guy has some now.

 

[Hazel]

I was also thinking that he could have been wearing a mark or costume since it was Halloween.

Wondergirl: Exactly, why was he in Armstrong THAT night? For a party, for work? Does he have family or friends in town? A girlfriend?

I am thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea for LE to compare his DNA with Databanks from other cities / provinces.

He has graduated from sexual assault to murder in those 6 years. Hard to believe he hasn't committed other assaults in that period of time.

Could it be this perp has been traveling or living somewhere else since 2005?

 

[matou]

What if this guy was targeting sex trade workers?

Is there a DNA data bank for unsolved crimes in Canada or in BC as a province? The DNA from the 2005 assault links him to Taylor but is there a database? Did the police look at local cases and make the comparison? Does the RCMP have it's own DNA profile bank versus other LE banks in Canada?

 

[otto]

"The Canadian police community had, for some time, called for the creation of a DNA data bank to assist police investigations. The government responded by assenting to the DNA Identification Act on December 10, 1998. This legislation allowed a DNA data bank to be created and amended the Criminal Code to provide a mechanism for a judge to order persons convicted of designated offences to provide blood, buccal or hair samples from which DNA profiles will be derived. The legislation became official on June 30, 2000."

http://www.nddb-bndg.org/main_e.htm

As a National program, all Canadian police and RCMP offices would have access to it.

 

[Sillybilly]

from:
http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20111124/taylor-van-diest-murder-investigation-dna-sample-111124.html

"The suspect DNA sample is not contained within the known offender DNA data bank," said Moskaluk.

If the perp doesn't work/live in Armstrong, he was in town for a reason around supper time on Halloween. With his pretty distinct look, I think that even if he ditched the mutton chops since the earlier sexual assault, someone will recognize dude.

I'm thinking he could live in Vernon because it is between Kelowna and Armstrong, and he may go either way out of town for his escapades.

 

[Sillybilly]

This guy was just arrested after an assault on a female adult boutique worker in Kamloops. He bears a resemblance to the composite in Taylor's case, but with his record, you'd think his DNA would be on file (can't recall when DNA samples became mandatory for SOs ... I wonder if this guy fell through the cracks, depending on the dates of his various past crimes and incarcerations?)

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/offender+Froese+arrested+Kamloops+abduction/5761017/story.html

Pics of JF at:

http://www.mtroyal.ca/CampusServices/CampusSafety/SecurityAlerts/security_alert_jul30_08.htm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2009/08/24/calgary-froese-high-risk-arrest.html

 

[dotr]

Hmm, we have a thread on this missing fellow.....
http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/article/20111020/PRINCEGEORGE0101/310209995/-1/PRINCEGEORGE/

 

[otto]

from:
http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20111124/taylor-van-diest-murder-investigation-dna-sample-111124.html



If the perp doesn't work/live in Armstrong, he was in town for a reason around supper time on Halloween. With his pretty distinct look, I think that even if he ditched the mutton chops since the earlier sexual assault, someone will recognize dude.

I'm thinking he could live in Vernon because it is between Kelowna and Armstrong, and he may go either way out of town for his escapades.

I guess that's the difference. There's a National DNA bank for convicted people, but not for remains that are found, or evidence that has been gathered.

http://crcvc.ca/en/?cat=29

As an experiment, last night I added colour to the black and white suspect image - just to see how it looked. I didn't save it, and when I returned to the computer it had restarted. I'm of two opinions: there must be a reason why police work with black and white sketches (perhaps more generic and better for identification), colour certainly adds realism. If anyone is curious, let me know and I'll do it again in the next day - always easier to do the second time around.

 

[Wondergirl]

What if this guy was targeting sex trade workers?

Is there a DNA data bank for unsolved crimes in Canada or in BC as a province? The DNA from the 2005 assault links him to Taylor but is there a database? Did the police look at local cases and make the comparison? Does the RCMP have it's own DNA profile bank versus other LE banks in Canada?

BBM: Possibly.

But, I am leaning towards the postage on the letter that was written, being passed through Kelowna, and THEN LE looking at unsolved crimes within the profile age range etc. JMO and hypothetically speaking.

 

[Wondergirl]

"The Canadian police community had, for some time, called for the creation of a DNA data bank to assist police investigations. The government responded by assenting to the DNA Identification Act on December 10, 1998. This legislation allowed a DNA data bank to be created and amended the Criminal Code to provide a mechanism for a judge to order persons convicted of designated offences to provide blood, buccal or hair samples from which DNA profiles will be derived. The legislation became official on June 30, 2000."

http://www.nddb-bndg.org/main_e.htm

As a National program, all Canadian police and RCMP offices would have access to it.

BBM: Thank-you, Otto, for bringing this up.

But, this case is different.

The male perp has NOT been convicted of any offence.

This suspect DNA sample is not contained within the known offender DNA data bank.

http://armstrong.bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=1017&languageId=1&contentId=21991

 

[otto]

This guy was just arrested after an assault on a female adult boutique worker in Kamloops. He bears a resemblance to the composite in Taylor's case, but with his record, you'd think his DNA would be on file (can't recall when DNA samples became mandatory for SOs ... I wonder if this guy fell through the cracks, depending on the dates of his various past crimes and incarcerations?)

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/offender+Froese+arrested+Kamloops+abduction/5761017/story.html

Pics of JF at:

http://www.mtroyal.ca/CampusServices/CampusSafety/SecurityAlerts/security_alert_jul30_08.htm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2009/08/24/calgary-froese-high-risk-arrest.html

Interesing ... I did an overlay of the suspect and the poster and their facial proportions and eyes are quite different, but other facial features are similar.

 

[Sillybilly]

from:
https://www.privacyinternational.org/article/canadian-supreme-court-upholds-dna-databank

Under the law, three classes of previously convicted and sentenced offenders could have their DNA samples taken:

1.'dangerous offenders'
2.persons convicted of "more than one murder committed at different times"
3.persons convicted of "more than one sexual offence"

<bbm>

In contemplating JF as a possible perp ... although he has numerous past offences, i can only find the one sexual offence in Saskatchewan (the chambermaid in 2004; guilty plea in 2005). There is a one-liner about a previous offence against someone he knew, but there's nothing to indicate he was convicted .. maybe LE included the reference to shore up their media release to the community. If the 2004 incident was his only sexual offence since the DNA bank came into existence, maybe he really isn't in the data bank. I'm not sure it's a mandatory requirement upon sentencing ... could be there is judicial discretion in ordering it.

 

[Sillybilly]

I guess that's the difference. There's a National DNA bank for convicted people, but not for remains that are found, or evidence that has been gathered.

<rsbm>

Otto .. i just read that there is a DNA bank for victims/remains/evidence, and that is what they compare the offenders to.


Okay .. found it:

from:
http://www.victimsofviolence.on.ca/rev2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=341&Itemid=31

There are two components of the national databank, a Crime Scene Index and a Convicted Offenders Index. The Convicted Offenders Index contains DNA profiles that are obtained from convicted offenders. The Crime Scene Index contains DNA profiles obtained from bodily substances that are found:

at any place where a designated offence was committed;
on or within the body of the victim of a designated offence;
or anything worn or carried by the victim at the time when a designated offence was committed; or
on or within the body of any person or thing or at any place associated with the commission of a designated offence.

 

[otto]

<rsbm>

Otto .. i just read that there is a DNA bank for victims/remains/evidence, and that is what they compare the offenders to.


Okay .. found it:

from:
http://www.victimsofviolence.on.ca/rev2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=341&Itemid=31

True ... but

"Access to information under this act is restricted to any person that contributes to the proper operation and maintenance of the databank, along with those involved in training purposes as deemed fit by the Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Samples gathered from victims of designated offences and those acquitted of charges are to be permanently removed, while samples from convicted offenders are to be kept indefinitely."

 

[Wondergirl]

How did the perp get to Armstrong, if they are possibly on financial assistance? Did they return to their home, the same way they got to Armstrong?

-Friend who has a car?
-Bus?
-Hitchhiked?
-Drove own car/truck/bike?
-Borrowed a ca/truck/bike?

Are there any known video cameras operating in the vicinity of the tracks or on the stores near the main highway leading to Armstrong?

 

[Wondergirl]

Seems to me that if no one phones or emails LE,then they will have no way of being sure that the letter came from the real perp and not some "copy-cat" trying to steal his/her "glory".Imo.


RCMP in the north Okanagan are not sure if a letter purported to be written by the killer of teen Taylor Van Diest is authentic.


Cpl. Dan Moskaluk said at a news conference Thursday that there were very few details of the crime in the disturbing letter, which arrived at the Armstrong detachment on Wednesday.


Investigators are urging the letter writer or anyone else who knows the person to call police immediately.


"As previously stated, the RCMP is taking the appropriate precautionary step of advising the public of the threatening nature of the letter," Moskaluk said. "We are asking that the general public remain vigilant and continue to take extra personal safety precautions in our communities, particularly in the Central and North Okanagan."


A designated tipline for the Van Diest murder investigation was set up Thursday. Anyone with information is asked to call 1-888-688-4264.


Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/RCMP+un...+teen+killer/5692706/story.html#ixzz1dM8YzlaL

When LE first released info about the letter, around November 10th, they referenced Central Okanagan.

I don't remember reading this finer detail at the time, but, it certainly seems to take relevance now.

I think LE has had this connection to Central Okanagan for a while. MOO JMO

 

[matou]

So is it looking like this perp wrote the letter?

 

[CanadianCandy]

@ matou, the idea of him being an employee of an event is compelling. Here is calendar of community events for you

http://www.aschamber.com/sites/default/files/calendar_of_events_2011.pdf


@ Wondergirl I too agree he wasn&#8217;t here at random, someone in town knew he was here on Halloween, other then Taylor. I do feel his characteristics/description (the sideburns and Caucasian appearance with darker skin tone) do have a commonality with a specific minority in our region.

I also didn&#8217;t recall the detail about the central and north Okanagan. Here is the press release for it

http://armstrong.bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=50&languageId=1&contentId=21820

I wonder why now too, did the letter mention other places therefore the broadened warning? Did they assume he was not a native of Armstong? Did they simply want to include everyone within easy distance as a precautionary measure?

As for the DNA databank stuff everyone was discussing I think I have some answers. We have a known offender registry (persons who have been convicted ) and an unknown registry (this contains DNA samples collected from crime scenes for which no match/identification could be made). In April 2005 the assailants DNA was collected from ether the victim or the scene and put in the unknown database. When RCMP got Taylor&#8217;s tests back they compared the results to both databanks and found the match. He is the prime &#8217;suspect&#8217; in 2 crimes, his DNA will only ever be removed from the unknown database when his identity is known, in which case one of two things will happen. Upon a conviction it would be moved to the known offender database. Upon a not guilty verdict (in both cases) he could have the samples removed from all databases altogether. Until one of those 2 outcomes are reached his sample will remain in the unknown databank for all RCMP to use across Canada.

http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/crime/a/dnadatabank.htm

Re: JF .. His DNA would be in the data bank as a known offender due to his conviction of sexual assault.

 

[CanadianCandy]

This is my attempt to compile the timeline/facts released thus far. Please feel free to copy/paste/edit/add to it in an effort to be thorough and add missed/new information.

Time Line Oct 31st, 2011

5:50pm - Taylor starts out at Colony ave and Pleasant Valley rd, heading north on Pleasant Valley rd. Walks north for 10mins to railroad tracks, it is unclear if she accessed the railroad tracks via Pleasant Valley rd or Rosedale ave. (I read an article in early Nov that gave the hundred block and road of the location she was heading to, I cannot recall details and have been unable to locate it as of posting this, if anyone comes across it please add it and I will update the map as well, thank you)

http://armstrong.bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=50&languageId=1&contentId=21738

http://armstrong.bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=50&languageId=1&contentId=21753

6:00pm - Last known contact from Taylor via text message. Taylor purportedly would also be on the railroad tracks at this time. RCMP are not confirming the content of this text message. 2 of Taylor&#8216;s friends confirmed its content as &#8216;im being creeped&#8217;.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20111103/slain-bc-teen-thought-she-was-being-followed-111103/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...yfriend-shortly-before-attack/article2222808/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-who-killed-taylor-van-diest/article2225479/

7:30pm - Taylor&#8217;s phone was found in close proximity to the railroad tracks, her family/friends are notified of the find and contact RCMP. The individuals who found the phone used the call home/family feature to alert her family of the find.

Taylor Van Diest Press Conference (Nov.4/11) - YouTube!

8:45pm - Taylor is found. Police are only confirming that a family member was present. There are reports which suggest her boyfriend found her first (family divulged this information, it in the news report under the 6pm part if the time line) then a friend covered her up with her coat. (the following link also includes some comments from an area resident, she claims it is not a well used path, I have included an explanation of the foot traffic for the path on the map)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...creeped-shortly-before-attack/article2222808/

-Nov 3: Last known picture taken of Taylor (in costume as a zombie) is released. (coat is Photoshopped)

http://armstrong.bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=50&languageId=1&contentId=21738

-Nov 9: A note threatening more violence is sent to the police station, the writer claims to be the assailant.

http://armstrong.bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=50&languageId=1&contentId=21820

-Nov 23: DNA from Taylor&#8217;s murder investigation is matched to anther unsolved crime in Kelowna, that investigation produced a sketch and description.

http://armstrong.bc.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=1017&languageId=1&contentId=21991

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