CAR SEAT discussion

[Spice]

I have been replaying this segment over several times and volume turned up - I have to agree with SStarr33.

No where in this part of questioning does it state the car seat protruding and was inches from RH's head.

Many links provided from news articles may state that but from the hearing with Stoddard and the Prosecutor I'm not hearing that.

Some may claim doesn't matter still no way to miss baby Cooper in the seat - some may claim it does matter and it's enough to miss baby Cooper.

To each their own perspective - view point - or opinion.
We each have one, and they may differ, does not make one more right or the other more wrong.
It is what it is, my opinion and all that jazz :moo:

btw - thank you SStar33 for posting that link and the time.

I'm seeing a lot of semantics. What was said was : how far or how close was the distance between approximately the drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat


The drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat.

Again, the distance between the drivers seat (where Ross was sitting) and the head area end of the car seat[/B]. (where Copper's head would have been )

The answer was 6 inches.

It's clear as day in the reenactment and there is nothing confusing about this question or the answer to it. :moo:

 

[RainCheck]

Hey everyone. This is a no - Brainer. We're all getting worked up over mis-interpretation of perspective.

I'm reading Stoddards words here. He says between the two seats. BETWEEN. As in CENTERED.

So in other words, I took this to mean that Cooper wasn't strapped in BEHIND the passenger seat or BEHIND Ross's seat - but rather, Cooper was CENTERED and strapped in to the middle section of the back seat - such that if you were standing at the front bumper of the car and looking through the front window, you'd see the car seat positioned centered -or- BETWEEN the two front seats.

From that perspective it makes perfect sense to me to say that he was BETWEEN/CENTERED from a latitudal position and 6 inches back from a longitudal position.

An infant car seat can be positioned in any seat in the back seat. That's not what he was saying. In fact, many cars don't allow the latch system to be used in the middle so parents choose to install the seat on the side. My husband's 2008 Honda Pilot doesn't have the latch system in the middle so infant car seats are installed on the sides. What the detective was saying is an infant carseat protrudes horizontally rearfacing and would stick out between the front seats! A convertible seat rearfacing or a forward facing seat would not stick out between the seats!

 

[SStarr33]

Exactly! The car seat is six inches from the driver not six inches from the seat! He said the seat was 6 inches from Ross and protruding between the seats like I said in the first place! Anyone who owns a car seat in a compact car knows there is no way in Hell there was 6 inches behind the seats. There's not even 6 inches between an infant car seat and the front seat in my husband's Honda Pilot which is a huge SUV!

The prosecutor CLEARLY asks how far the head of the car seat is from the driver's seat.

I'm done with this topic for today.

 

[Melanie]

Listen to Detective Stoddard at 23:00--he picks up the computer bag which is in front of the passenger seat in the FRONT of the car

http://new.livestream.com/wildabouttrial/events/2490138/videos/55596876

You are correct. MSM likes to twist and turn things. The computer bag was on the passenger seat. He was sitting there 30 seconds.

 

[jmcgladr]

Surveillance footage showed Ross Harris sitting in the car 30 seconds before reaching behind the passenger seat to grab his computer bag.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/10245026/Seat-key-evidence-in-toddler-left-in-car-case

OK, not sure how anyone can be on the fence now, or explain away that one? His face would be right over Cooper's as he did that! Damning evidence.

 

[ReadyorNot]

In relation to the bold. Did you watch the reenactment using the exact model of car seat and car yesterday? It is clear that the car seat was protruding and practically in Rh's lap in that car. And yes it was in the middle. 6 inches at most from ROSS while he was in the drivers seat. Six inches at most from his body.

6 inches at most from the drivers seat.

I am not understanding where the confusion is?

The hearing is Linked in the media thread. It is also easily googled and all parts are on you tube. It's easy to find within or outside of this forum. It also has been linked within many of these threads since it aired.

The link to the hearing is located in its designated spot on this forum: The Media Thread.

That reenactment is a disgrace honestly, it is not at all representative of the truth. But Nancy Grace and her producer achieved what she intended by playing on the emotions of people. I guess if you choose to disregard what we know is a fact then its pretty damning and not worth arguing over.

 

[popsicle]

I'm seeing a lot of semantics. What was said was : how far or how close was the distance between approximately the drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat


The drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat.

Again, the distance between the drivers seat (where Ross was sitting) and the head area end of the car seat[/B]. (where Copper's head would have been )

The answer was 6 inches.

It's clear as day in the reenactment and there is nothing confusing about this question or the answer to it. :moo:

Thank you.

 

[Stolat]

An infant car seat can be positioned in any seat in the back seat. That's not what he was saying.

I disagree completely. What I recall from my daughters seat is that it had to be strapped into one of the car's seat belt systems or else the whole chair would tip over when I took a turn (I know this because I accidentally did that one time and my daughter giggled like she was at Six Flags even tho I was horrified). In my car there are only 3 seat belt receptor locks - one for the person sitting behind the passenger seat, one for the person sitting behind the driver seat and one for the person sitting in the center -or Between- the two front seats.

So I must disagree with your assertion.

 

[ReadyorNot]

Six inches from ROSS. Six inches from the drivers seat. Protruding and Practically in his lap.

It's not confusing at all......:facepalm:

And the 6 inches is according to the LE reenactment. It was also CLEAR as day in the HLN reenactment which was not "messed" up. Same car. Same car seat place in the middle and rear facing. It's not brain surgery.

It was NOT the same seat. They clearly said they were using a Britex and showed it was a toddler seat from her wish list. Then they showed a britex with a handle in the actual car. it was completely unrepresentative of the truth.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

STODDARD: Justin took Cooper out to the car. He went into the back seat where the car seat was situated. It's a rear-facing car seat so Cooper's head would be in between or almost in between the two front seats. He put Cooper in the vehicle. He stated he strapped him in tight. He went through a little spiel about how he'd watched You Tube videos about, you know, car seat regulations and stuff, and he knew that this was the right car seat and the right way of doing it. And he straps him in tight. And Cooper gives him a kiss. And he gives him a kiss back. And he says he always gives him the kiss in case they get into a car accident and he dies. He wanted Cooper to, you know, his last memory or Cooper to remember that he had been loved or that his daddy loved him.

He says right here it would have been between the seats! It's not possible it could have been behind them in that vehicle! Just simply not possible especially with a talk driver! Not unlikely, impossible!

BBM- and UNDERLINED -The problem is this is there is not a fact there.. Just a supposition. He is saying that it must have been.. Not that it was. That car seat is not a huge infant seat. It would not have been protruding between the seats.

 

[K_Z]

I think we would all agree that this will be a high-profile trial...But do you think that it will be bigger if it happens in the summer months instead of the winter months? Even just slightly? I keep seeing posts and comments saying that people think about Cooper when they get in their car...do you think that there would be less "relating" if it was 20 degrees outside and snowing? And do you think the prosecution will try to get the trial to happen during the summer, while the defense will try for the winter, incase it has any impact on the jury?

I think that's an excellent observation. I don't want to say people are less sympathetic to a deceased child no matter what situation. However, I can't help but agree that as people get into their steamy cars they can physically envision the duress, trauma and pain. Think how you feel in that one second your butt hits a hot vinyl or leather seat when you first get in. Now imagine that feeling not letting up for 7 hours.

I totally can see how a jury would be slightly more persuaded to convict in the summer months than in the winter. They can feel it for themselves.

Defense attorney: "Your honor, we move to strike this juror candidate for prejudice. He has personally admitted to entering a hot car in the summer heat." (Repeat as many times as the judge will allow.)

Defense attorney: "Your honor, the defense requests that all jurors and alternates be prohibited from entering hot cars for the duration of their service."

"What the heck, the defense requests all jurors be prohibited from entering ANY cars for the duration of their service. Admonish them to not even look at, or think about cars, Judge, pleeeaaaasssseee? Or car seats.. Or children. Or Chik-Fil-A. Or Home Depot. Judge, can we also give them mind altering substances to prevent them from remembering anything in the real world? Please? Because my client doesn't stand a chance with real human beings on the jury. Could we please not even mention why we're all here in court? Because that's prejudicial to my client. The jury shouldn't know my client is charged with any crime. The victim being dead is highly prejudicial."

<end satire>

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It was NOT the same seat. They clearly said they were using a Britex and showed it was a toddler seat from her wish list. Then they showed a britex with a handle in the actual car. it was completely unrepresentative of the truth.

Have to agree. To have accuracy you have to use the same seat and have it installed the exact same way.

 

[ReadyorNot]

FWIW..I'm 5'9 and I often wear heels to work. I put my seat nearly as far back as it will go or my ankle hurts. Gawd, I hope that doesn't make me look like a (what was the word? gangbanger?).

Someone help me out. I'm not following why the seat position makes all that much difference for a guy who had the daily routine of turning around in his seat to check on his son. Daily.

What was it about this one day that made it so unusual that a person described by BFF as "creature of habit" would break from his daily routine?

The reason I mentioned it was because the way that Nancy Graces producer had the seats reclined (Not moved back) of course the car seat would protude between the seats. But not many people actually drive that way! Its similar to how you would take a nap.

 

[jmcgladr]

We have been over and over this. Please listen to Detective Stoddard at 23:00--he picks up the computer bag which is in front of the passenger seat in the FRONT of the car

http://new.livestream.com/wildabouttrial/events/2490138/videos/55596876

OK, thanks for the correction, but even if he was getting something from the front passenger seat, he would have had to turn his head to the right to see/pick up the laptop, and therefore had to have seen Cooper right there in his car seat!

 

[ReadyorNot]

I have been replaying this segment over several times and volume turned up - I have to agree with SStarr33.

No where in this part of questioning does it state the car seat protruding and was inches from RH's head.

Many links provided from news articles may state that but from the hearing with Stoddard and the Prosecutor I'm not hearing that.

Some may claim doesn't matter still no way to miss baby Cooper in the seat - some may claim it does matter and it's enough to miss baby Cooper.

To each their own perspective - view point - or opinion.
We each have one, and they may differ, does not make one more right or the other more wrong.
It is what it is, my opinion and all that jazz :moo:

btw - thank you SStar33 for posting that link and the time.

You are absolutely right, its not justification whatsoever for leaving him. Its also not a defense. The point I am outraged over is that its not at all representative how NG showed it to be, and this is a question we really want to know. But most who saw it are satisfied with that, I am not.

 

[RainCheck]

Have to agree. To have accuracy you have to use the same seat and have it installed the exact same way.

To some degree but a infant car seats made in the US have similar dimensions. The federal laws regarding car seat specifications leave very little leeway for big differences. However, if you're not using the exact same car seat, car and sized man than yeah it's not a true representation. I haven't even watched it. I'll watch it when the prosecution does it correctly!

 

[ReadyorNot]

I'm seeing a lot of semantics. What was said was : how far or how close was the distance between approximately the drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat


The drivers seat and the head area end of the car seat.

Again, the distance between the drivers seat (where Ross was sitting) and the head area end of the car seat[/B]. (where Copper's head would have been )

The answer was 6 inches.

It's clear as day in the reenactment and there is nothing confusing about this question or the answer to it. :moo:

It is not semantics in any way. By NG's demonstration it is undeniably condemning! It is depraved.

By the facts it is still damning, but not proof of depravity.

 

[RainCheck]

I disagree completely. What I recall from my daughters seat is that it had to be strapped into one of the car's seat belt systems or else the whole chair would tip over when I took a turn (I know this because I accidentally did that one time and my daughter giggled like she was at Six Flags even tho I was horrified). In my car there are only 3 seat belt receptor locks - one for the person sitting behind the passenger seat, one for the person sitting behind the driver seat and one for the person sitting in the center -or Between- the two front seats.

So I must disagree with your assertion.

Have no idea what you're saying. However, most car seats today have latch systems and so do new cars. Latch systems don't use belts.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

To some degree but a infant car seats made in the US have similar dimensions. The federal laws regarding car seat specifications leave very little leeway for big differences. However, if you're not using the exact same car seat, car and sized man than yeah it's not a true representation. I haven't even watched it. I'll watch it when the prosecution does it correctly!

There are federal regs that have to be met as in testing and requirements but width and height and depth can vary greatly.

The britax seats depending on what version are much shorter than others. They don't often give a lot of rear facing time. Where as a Radian would.

So the seat can vary a lot as long when tested it holds up to the standards set.

 

[RainCheck]

I'm sorry, what did you say?



Thank you.

I haven't watched the NG reenactment with the wrong car seat. Is that what your asking me?