Casey & Family Psychological Profile #1

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I just finished reading the Lake Vaj "cliff notes". Taking those together with the Jesse Grund interview/s on Geraldo, the picture painted of Casey by these 2 fellas who know her seems VERY DIFFERENT from the analyses and thoughts we've all been coming up with here onsite. They tell of her being a sweet, smart, nice girl who did NOT do drugs (and got upset if someone was smoking weed), who drank very very little, who was a good friend to her friends and got along well with people. Neither Jesse nor Exit13 (Lake Vaj thread) knew her as a "pathological liar", either.

If she killed Caylee, it really is sounding more and more to me like she had some kind of psychotic "break". For example, supposing she killed Caylee accidentally and can't accept it herself -- and the story she has told about the nanny is something she has pieced together that seems most believable to her. In any case, the behavior she has exhibited since mid-June seems to be pretty much out of character for her.

After reading the above two items, what does anyone else think?

I disagree completely. Sociopaths know how to fit in with society and have a lot of friends. they are very charming. that's why they are such deft manipulators. they are "nice people" and do their manipulations behind-the-scenes and it is only when something like "this" happens that it all comes out. let's not forget that JG is the same guy that she lied to about being the father of her child, and yet he still loved her. People don't "want" to believe that they have been conned by their so-called friends and lovers - it is too hard to admit to. IMO it is easier for us to think that someone we love "just snapped" than to think that they had this kind of pre-meditated evil in them and we just didn't see it.

on your last point - you don't just have a psychotic break and then go "back to normal" - take it from someone who's actually had one right here, and has witnessed a friend have one as well. it would have been building for a while, and there would be a serious change in behavior afterward. A person who's had a psychotic break would not have a flat affect - they'd either be catatonic or highly hysterical, and need to be hospitalized. They'd be unable to form coherent thoughts. They wouldn't be able to function or take care of themselves, like I was, and they certainly would not have the frame of mind to clean up a crime scene and dispose of a body. this is not something that just "goes away". your brain doesn't become jumbled to the point where you kill someone, and then mysteriously "clear up" like nothing happened,without serious medical intervention and/or medication.

"Temporary insanity" has no meaning in the psychiatric field - it is a creative term coined by criminal defense attorneys to explain unexplainable acts.
 
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
.............only clapping here because you have stated what I have believed from the beginning.
Her hold on reality was very weak before the 'event.'I feel too it was an accident--by neglect or accident.
Everyone who met Caylee adored her and not one person could believe kc could have harmed her. We have tried to make kc into a monster....it makes us feel better maybe.After the 'accident' kc suffered PTS and just fell off the edge. She has not come back. She is in another reality. KC that others knew is just NOT there anymore.
KC does not believe her daughter is dead. How else could she sleep at night?!
I cannot imagine how Baez thinks he can ever defend her considering the mental condition she is in now. What a mess for him. Good luck, JB.
I am not making excuses for her, this is just how I have felt for so long.

on the points that I highlighted: I think you probably have never or dealt with someone with a mental illness, because if you did, you would probably have a totally different perspective on the "face' that Casey is putting on right now:
1. what is your evidence that her "hold on reality" was weak? I've seen none so far.
2. some mothers DO kill their children. people, let's take a deep breath and accept this. it's not just men that go out and kill people without remorse - women are just as capable of it. just because we have the ability to give birth does not make us immune to committing murder.
3. what is the "mental condition" that she is in? again - no evidence that she is mentally ill in any way. depressed people show SIGNS of depression. schitzophrenics show SIGNS of schitzophrenia. last I checked, being a cold self-serving, manipulative liar was not a sign of mental illness.

IMO, being a fun person at parties, which is all Exit 13 really said about her, doesn't mean anything, and that interview didn't really tell me much. I knew someone once who was "fun at parties", very nice/good to his friends, etc, but when you got him alone in a room he turned into a date rapist. people who plan pre-meditated murders don't run around in the street waving knives around. as for JG, let's keep in mind that he fell in love with the "image" that she presented to him. he might not be ready to admit or let go of that yet.
it IS possible to know someone for a long time and not really "know" them, or know what they are really capable of - I'm sure we've all dated or known someone who, even if it had been YEARS, revealed themselves to be something other than what we thought. we only show people what we want them to see.
 
Yes, what people do is not based on losing touch with reality! It usually makes some kind of sense from their point of view. What they do is not irrational, but necessary. You have to figure out their reasoning, not just say they are crazy, out of touch with reality, or a monster.

Casey may have intended to sell her daughter into adoption. That is one of the few explanations for the chloroform. We can be fairly sure from the decomposition odor in the car, Caylee is dead. The presence of chloroform indicates that maybe Caylee was made unconscious so she would not know she was being sold by her own mother into adoption. She would wake up in a different place and not know what happened. That could have been the plan. Caylee could have died accidentally from the chloroform.

After that, Casey would have rationally set out to burn the body, bury it, and cover up the awful truth with every fiber of her being.
 
Profiling Casey
by Russell w/intro by Editor

I asked Russell Smith—a regular contributor to our forensic psychology portal—if he had considered profiling Casey Anthony. I was, and am, curious what the BRACE Character Profile™ might reveal as it pertains to Casey's glaring contradictory presentation. By this, I am referring to photos and videos[18] which appear to indicate strong attachment between mother and child in contrast to the plethora of lies surrounding Caylee's disappearance. Additionally, while the taped phone calls between Casey and her family[19] suggest long-standing problems where family dynamics are concerned, Casey's presentation during the law enforcement interviews[20] [21] contain notable circumlocution and tangential verbalization that appears to go beyond and above standard "lying." If this impression is remotely accurate, what role might it play with regard to what happened to Caylee and more importantly, where she can be found? Perhaps the BRACE Character Profile™ will reveal some clues to this seemingly endless and tragic mystery.
Full article: click here
 
Casey does not have PTSD. This much I can tell without ever meeting her. I think if you become familiar with the symptoms of this disorder you will understand. There is a quote by a psychiatrist with a great deal of experience in assessing for PTSD that will explain my main point, "Show me someone who is relaxed and claims to have PTSD and I will show you a charlatan." A survivor will exhibit genuine distress when discussing the traumatic event and will often attempt to avoid discussing it. They have flashbacks, develop "triggers" which they relate to the trauma and cannot control the symptoms. Those who spent time with Casey after Caylee's disappearance would have noticed a significant change in her behavior. You cannot turn PTSD off and on. However, everyone who was around Casey in the month leading to her arrest describe her as "normal and/or happy." While those with PTSD often repress memories of the event, their behavior changes in other ways...it isn't that "clean cut" where it would allow for her to appear unchanged in other areas of functioning.
 
Profiling Casey
by Russell w/intro by Editor


Full article: click here

That is an interesting read. However, I wasn't able to find what specific information on Casey was used to make the profile. Did I just miss it?

I have never heard of the Brace Character Profile and couldn't find any information on the APA website. Anyone here know if it is used much and if so, by whom?

 
Casey does not have PTSD. This much I can tell without ever meeting her. I think if you become familiar with the symptoms of this disorder you will understand. There is a quote by a psychiatrist with a great deal of experience in assessing for PTSD that will explain my main point, "Show me someone who is relaxed and claims to have PTSD and I will show you a charlatan." A survivor will exhibit genuine distress when discussing the traumatic event and will often attempt to avoid discussing it. They have flashbacks, develop "triggers" which they relate to the trauma and cannot control the symptoms. Those who spent time with Casey after Caylee's disappearance would have noticed a significant change in her behavior. You cannot turn PTSD off and on. However, everyone who was around Casey in the month leading to her arrest describe her as "normal and/or happy." While those with PTSD often repress memories of the event, their behavior changes in other ways...it isn't that "clean cut" where it would allow for her to appear unchanged in other areas of functioning.

Thank you for this. I am one who has felt she suffered from a traumatic event and just shut down. All the other psycological evidence I am reading here today has changed my thinking.
Appreciate your words.
 
That is an interesting read. However, I wasn't able to find what specific information on Casey was used to make the profile. Did I just miss it?

I have never heard of the Brace Character Profile and couldn't find any information on the APA website. Anyone here know if it is used much and if so, by whom?


"The input ratings for the BRACE Character Profile™ can be completed by anyone with basic reading skills and the ability to objectively rate statements about a well known or well conceptualized person or prototypical type. Consensus input ratings by two or more individuals increases the knowledge base and minimizes rating biases. However, one objective rater with good knowledge of the character being rated is sufficient. In the current case, the input ratings are based strictly on public record, primarily media reports, press releases and interviews. Consequently, the Casey Anthony character profiled is the character created by the media and the facts of the case that have been reported, all filtered through the mind of the rater."

BRACE profiling is indeed interesting, but I'm pretty sure it's neither endorsed by the APA, nor regarded as having high construct validity within the psych community. An exciting read nonetheless.
 
BRACE profiling is indeed interesting, but I'm pretty sure it's neither endorsed by the APA, nor regarded as having high construct validity within the psych community. An exciting read nonetheless.
I cannot speak to the endorsement bit (outside of noting that well-known FBI profiler, John Douglas, was apparently impressed with the tool). If you want however, I would be more than happy to ask Russell if he would be willing to join WS to field questions.
 
This is a new tool and still being tested so its not " accepted " as yet but
shows promise
 
Hello, hope I'm in right place (I am new, and also driven to understand the "why," or at least dynamics of this troubled family as it's awfully "close to home." After this I promise to refrain from long posts, just needed to get this off my chest!) My own daughter became pregnant in her sr year of hs. She'd been living away from home for some mos as I asked her to leave when she'd grown increasingly defiant til eventually I had to consider her younger siblings. She'd been staying w/ series of friends whose families graciously opened their homes as she employed their sympathies as a "victim." In time each would invariably ask her to leave for the same kind of problems. The pattern of blaming, refusal to take responsibility, lack of empathy for others, and sense of entitlement inevitably took its toll. But fortunately (or unfortunately), she's also charismatic with a seemingly neverending list of friends to whom she can turn and was determined to meet her needs in her own unhealthy, often dishonest, ways.

Our family was continually reeling from the revolving door and there seemed no limit to the selfish choices she made. She'd have nothing to do with her baby sis and when I was finally dx w CNS lupus, she never broke her stride but continued wreaking havoc, leaving a wake of exploited friendships and confusion behind her. In time some of her irresponsible choices caught up w her--after admitting she was pregnant, my 18 year-old daughter squeaked through hs w a “bump” under her graduation gown--surrounded by yet more friends all eager to share in the excitement of her pregnancy. And when our own angel was born no child was ever showered w more love or lavished w more gifts. (From there they spent the first months of her life in a spacious home where a church ministry offered housing to single moms and babies. I was grateful for the stability in both their lives but she resisted their rules too, refused accountability, resented counseling, job training or any efforts to help so eventually was asked to leave there. The dad was never involved but his sister showed interest--as by this time my daughter had exhausted other options, they both evenually moved in with the "aunt.")

While I could not do for my daughter (nor sadly my granddaughter) all Cindy did for her’s, I adore my grandbaby no less. I know how incomprehensible her loss must be but there is a "hope that disappoints." Denial isn’t faith ["Faith calls those things that aren’t (yet) as though they are—not those things that are (already) as though they aren’t.] And a mother's heart is always to protect her child but we can never help our children to grow by excusing their behavior, perpetuating their deceit, or turning a blind eye to signs of their guilt or suffering. The hardest lesson I learned as mom or grandma is to realize there are some consequences we can't spare our kids--or grandkids. Cindy has not only alternately described her daughter as both "employee" and "mother of the year" but as "very caring; the kind of person who looks out for other people." This AFTER discovering her daughter had stuck her for $40k in credit card charges, robbed her friend who was kind enough to loan Casey her car (because the car she stole from mom was abandoned due to overpowering decomp smell), and robbed an aging grandparent.

The excusing and enabling that persists to this day is doing her daughter a grievous disservice--if we don't allow children to experience consequences when the cost is small, the ante keeps going up and up until consequences are unbearable--as in this instance--and until you've helped create a "monster." My actions may seem tough, but it was the best hope of ever stopping the blame cycle and helping her face responsibility for her choices including motherhood. I've continued to support my daughter in the ways I can and assist her to take responsible steps. While struggling to raise my younger children, I watch as my daughter seems intent on keeping up the lifestyle of friends her age, lamenting I can't do more and cringing when it means I didn't always know the friends w whom she left my grandchild. She too has been unrealistic re options, worked only a few hours a week if at all, recklessly mismanaged finances, and failed at times to see providing a stable environment for her child as the top priority.

My point is this. We can call Casey an evil monster and search no farther for understanding; or we can hold her harmless because she's "sick" and say it's not her fault, "she just can't help it." But the truth lies somewhere between. If young people are being raised in an increasingly selfish narcissistic culture today; if my own daughter even exhibits disturbing narcissistic traits, I truly believe Casey has full blown NPD—and desperately needs help if she's ever going to confront the truth. For her's, and everyone’s, sake that needs to begin with her parents who need the grace and courage to first face their own loss and grief.

I lost a brother but mercifully have not known the terror or grief of losing a child, or a grandchild. It shocks and saddens me to see the way they are treated by the public. Those who have gathered to taunt or besiege them w hate or make threats are beyond my ability to comprehend. Nor is it easy to absorb or accept what media and law enforcement report. After being finally kicked out (following argument re stealing) yet told to leave Caylee, it was this she saw as an act of "ultimate betrayal" (despite telling LE otherwise). W/in 24 hours of taking "charge" of her child for first time it isn't hard then to imagine her neglecting this "object of envy." Presumably another tragic silent toddler drowning--a hideous discovery, beyond hope of revival--and no one answers (due to recent heated argument). Casey panics and takes matters into her own hands: unable to face responsibility for what she has done, Casey conceals the truth, and avoids Cindy by going into "hiding."

I don't believe there were two different Casey's ("before" and "after"), I think she's long charmed and manipulated the periphery of people she's using into admiring her. But her sphere of crime began to extend farther beyond family and became more reckless--as she begins to victimize "friends," for crimes for which she surely knows she will be caught.

Technology and investigative tools are for getting answers where people conceal the truth and answers are needed. The law exists for those who are unwilling to abide by rules or hold themselves accountable. FBI, University of Tennessee , Orange County Sheriffs, and CSI labs have all independently reached the same heartwrenching conclusion: It is time to bring all their resources to bear so they can at least bring this little angel home to rest. RIP Caylee you little cutie pie...
 
Nice short post I promise! Just wanna clarify that regardless of websearches I feel certain chloroform was used only as cleaning agent (question is by WHOM, as this may be just another eg of "cleaning up" behind Casey as always... you know, kinda like his wife's "woops Chief, yamean those slacks w the pesky dead body smell I pretreated w dna spotremover?")
 
This is a new tool and still being tested so its not " accepted " as yet but
shows promise
I agree. I think it is very promising. The biggest surprise (for me) was the significant correlation between Casey Anthony's scores and John Mark Karr's scores.
 
"The input ratings for the BRACE Character Profile™ can be completed by anyone with basic reading skills and the ability to objectively rate statements about a well known or well conceptualized person or prototypical type. Consensus input ratings by two or more individuals increases the knowledge base and minimizes rating biases. However, one objective rater with good knowledge of the character being rated is sufficient. In the current case, the input ratings are based strictly on public record, primarily media reports, press releases and interviews. Consequently, the Casey Anthony character profiled is the character created by the media and the facts of the case that have been reported, all filtered through the mind of the rater."

BRACE profiling is indeed interesting, but I'm pretty sure it's neither endorsed by the APA, nor regarded as having high construct validity within the psych community. An exciting read nonetheless.
Thanks for this nancy, but I was really looking for the specific facts, characteristics, etc. that were the basis for this profile. I may not be understanding the procedure used but I would think there were certain things about Casey that lead to this profile. I agree it is an interesting read.
 
I cannot speak to the endorsement bit (outside of noting that well-known FBI profiler, John Douglas, was apparently impressed with the tool). If you want however, I would be more than happy to ask Russell if he would be willing to join WS to field questions.
If he is willing, that would be wonderful. Especially since this is a new tool and it is hard to find much literature on it at this point. I would be interested in what he was looking at (in regard to Casey) that led to his scores on this profile.
 
That is an interesting read. However, I wasn't able to find what specific information on Casey was used to make the profile. Did I just miss it?

I have never heard of the Brace Character Profile and couldn't find any information on the APA website. Anyone here know if it is used much and if so, by whom?
As far as I know, since the BRACE Character Profile tool isn't a diagnostic tool, it would not fall under the purview of the APA. As for what he used to score Casey? You can find a copy of his manual and graphic template tools in the Forensic Tool section of our repository. Here is a direct link to that area.

http://crimsonshadows.net/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,97/Itemid,137/


Btw, I've asked Russell to join WS. So, hopefully, he will have time to drop by and really answer your questions.
 
Chloroform, not chlorine bleach for cleaning.

Wikipedia: In 1847, the Edinburgh obstetrician James Young Simpson first used chloroform for general anesthesia during childbirth. In the United States, chloroform began to replace ether as an anesthetic at the beginning of the 20th century; however, it was quickly abandoned in favor of ether upon discovery of its toxicity, especially its tendency to cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia analogous to what is now termed "sudden sniffer's death".

Casey may have wanted to anesthetize Caylee so she could sell her into adoption. If that is what happened: if she wanted to sell her daughter into adoption: in that case, everything Casey has done to cover up the mess actually makes rational sense.
 
I cannot speak to the endorsement bit (outside of noting that well-known FBI profiler, John Douglas, was apparently impressed with the tool). If you want however, I would be more than happy to ask Russell if he would be willing to join WS to field questions.

Shadow, thank you for the invitation. I will be happy to answer any questions that I understand. :)

The BRACE Character Profile was not designed to be a psychological or psychiatric tool, but rather a profiling tool for the general public; however, it has been used by clinicians. It has been presented in several professional forums and has consistently been regarded as accurate as presented, but I am pretty much a one man show and do not have the resources to do large scale studies. As validity tests, I have done scores of profiles on characters, real and fictional, that were UNSUBs to me, and the results indicate that this profiling tool measures what it was designed to measure: patterns of maladaptive thought, behavior and motivation. The procedure for establishing the graphics and charts for analysis is pretty straight forward: rate 75 statements on a 5-point scale. The ratings are used to generate graphics and charts for the analysis. The level of sophistication of the analysis depends on the knowledge and skills of the person doing it, but the basics can be learned by reading the manual.

A profile such as the Casey profile, which was quite detailed, would require an expert in the BRACE Character Profile for the analysis. But, an amateur could make good use of the graphics and charts.

Hope this is responsive,
Russell
 
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