Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[countzero]

LG, about the only thing I can add to your post, is to be indifferent of someone, you have to hate them first. You either hate them for what they have done to you, or you hate what they did.

Nope, it's not a conflict in my statement either. When one has demands and injustices put upon them for years and years, especially from the person who is suppose to love and protect you, your hatred towards them grows. Along with love, a sick love. Not as we know love. OLG and I see it as a passive/aggressive love. The individual administering the love hasn't a clue what love is either. They mimic what they see outside of their environment to outsiders.

If one is strong enough internally and KNOWS the difference, they remove themselves from the situation and move on with life. Hopefully one finds an individual who they can depend upon to help them sort through this. It's a damming soul who doesn't. The cycle just goes on in the next generation.

The ones who do manage to distance themselves and seek help still goes on with self-doubts and mistrust. Some may stumble alpng the way. That's part of lifes learning. Some may never trust another human, but learn of to life according to society rules.

I have said this many times and probably will say it over and over.

Life is NOT a rehearsal. There are no do-overs. You get one chance and only one. You can either go through life being bitter and angry. Or you can be the best you can and make contributions, no matter how small you think they are. No one can make these decisions for any one else. It is a personal commitment to change ones path in life.

ICA made the conscious decision she was going to make Cindy pay for all the injustices she felt Cindy caused her. Whether they were real or not. In ICAs mind they were real. ICA manipulated CA as much as CA manipulated ICA. They thrived off of each other. Neither one willing to let the other win. Again, I don't give ICA or CA a pass for their actions and complicity in Caylee's murder.

How do I know what I speak of? Been there, done that in my youth. ICA apparently didn't have a teacher or adult who would get involved. Or my guess is if there was one, CA made sure she manipulated the truth.

The interactions we have seen between ICA and CA, GA and LE are an act for outsiders. We only catch a glimpse of the true relationships when they slip out. CAs civil depo is a great example. It's a doozie of her controlling nature. LE/FBI is another of her lies to manipulate how she needs others to view and judge her. The last hearing is another of her preparing herself to be ICAs myrtar. And the email she recently sent to channel 6 of having grandous illusions of importance. CA moves from one role into another without blinking an eye. She doesn't need to research the role she needs to project as an actress would. It comes to her automatically. Just as ICA can cry and lie on demand. Stick a finger in their eye to produce tears.

CA even managed how to turn Caylee's murder into $$$$$. CA has found a new purpose and direction. And she is happy as a pig in mud following it. CA won't change her ways. She was right when she said she and ICA are made from the same cloth. Both are cold hearted individuals who feed off and enjoy inflicting emotional and physical pain on others. It is their choice of drugs.

 

[OneLostGrl]

It doesn't matter how much you love or try to love someone who has narcissistic or borderline personality disorder, as I feel Cindy does. People like this are in deep denial of their issues and do not think anything is wrong with them. They think that everything is wrong with everyone else/the world. They do not take anyone else's efforts to get them help kindly or seriously because they do not think that they need help. People with personality disorders almost never seek/accept help - it doesn't matter how much they are loved. And frankly, they are often hard to love because of their mental illness and their complete denial that they have any issues.

MOO

I agree with you for the most part but I do not believe anyone is beyond hope. My mother (Borderline) was a very sick woman, to the extent of filing false rape claims on men because they dumped her, faking illnesses to the extent of having conned a dr into removing her gallbladder.. telling her 3 children she planned on poisioning our dinner so we could not create more just like us. She married a man dx'd with ASDP and allowed him to drain any bit of "normalcy" we kids had pretended to believe we had. I could go on but I'm sure ya get the type of woman I'm describing. But- I have seen her change in ways I never thought a person could.. don't get me wrong she's still a sick woman but the changes she has made in herself are amazing and IMO anyone that is committed to changing as honestly as she was/is can do the same thing if given the proper insight, motivation and tools. Borderline does not have a cure but with hard work it can stop running (and ruining) your life.

The problem is- sadly for a borderline personality often the work is too hard and old habits die hard. But there is hope and there is treatment and some, though few, can improve

 

[txsvicki]

I just don't see all the manipulativeness that others see in Cindy. To me, it seems like she walked on eggshells trying to figure out Casey and get any truth out of her. The woman had her husband and daughter (according to Shirley) both taking money and charging up her credits cards. IMO George seems to have a personality disorder much more than his wife. He's allegedly stolen from the wife, shown violence, explosiveness with protesters, weak suicide attempt, manipulation by blaming his behavior on Cindy, been avoidant, reckless with money, allegedly cheated, and in statements heard by the public the subject always turns to being about him. If Cindy had been very controlling they wouldn't have done all that they did to her and the finances.

 

[OneLostGrl]

LG, about the only thing I can add to your post, is to be indifferent of someone, you have to hate them first. You either hate them for what they have done to you, or you hate what they did.

Nope, it's not a conflict in my statement either. When one has demands and injustices put upon them for years and years, especially from the person who is suppose to love and protect you, your hatred towards them grows. Along with love, a sick love. Not as we know love. OLG and I see it as a passive/aggressive love. The individual administering the love hasn't a clue what love is either. They mimic what they see outside of their environment to outsiders.

If one is strong enough internally and KNOWS the difference, they remove themselves from the situation and move on with life. Hopefully one finds an individual who they can depend upon to help them sort through this. It's a damming soul who doesn't. The cycle just goes on in the next generation.

The ones who do manage to distance themselves and seek help still goes on with self-doubts and mistrust. Some may stumble alpng the way. That's part of lifes learning. Some may never trust another human, but learn of to life according to society rules.

I have said this many times and probably will say it over and over.

Life is NOT a rehearsal. There are no do-overs. You get one chance and only one. You can either go through life being bitter and angry. Or you can be the best you can and make contributions, no matter how small you think they are. No one can make these decisions for any one else. It is a personal commitment to change ones path in life.

ICA made the conscious decision she was going to make Cindy pay for all the injustices she felt Cindy caused her. Whether they were real or not. In ICAs mind they were real. ICA manipulated CA as much as CA manipulated ICA. They thrived off of each other. Neither one willing to let the other win. Again, I don't give ICA or CA a pass for their actions and complicity in Caylee's murder.

How do I know what I speak of? Been there, done that in my youth. ICA apparently didn't have a teacher or adult who would get involved. Or my guess is if there was one, CA made sure she manipulated the truth.

The interactions we have seen between ICA and CA, GA and LE are an act for outsiders. We only catch a glimpse of the true relationships when they slip out. CAs civil depo is a great example. It's a doozie of her controlling nature. LE/FBI is another of her lies to manipulate how she needs others to view and judge her. The last hearing is another of her preparing herself to be ICAs myrtar. And the email she recently sent to channel 6 of having grandous illusions of importance. CA moves from one role into another without blinking an eye. She doesn't need to research the role she needs to project as an actress would. It comes to her automatically. Just as ICA can cry and lie on demand. Stick a finger in their eye to produce tears.

CA even managed how to turn Caylee's murder into $$$$$. CA has found a new purpose and direction. And she is happy as a pig in mud following it. CA won't change her ways. She was right when she said she and ICA are made from the same cloth. Both are cold hearted individuals who feed off and enjoy inflicting emotional and physical pain on others. It is their choice of drugs.

great post!

And may I just add-

"If you're treated a certain way you become a certain kind of person. If certain things are described to you as being real they're real for you whether they're real or not" - James Baldwin

 

[OneLostGrl]

I just don't see all the manipulativeness that others see in Cindy. To me, it seems like she walked on eggshells trying to figure out Casey and get any truth out of her. The woman had her husband and daughter (according to Shirley) both taking money and charging up her credits cards. IMO George seems to have a personality disorder much more than his wife. He's allegedly stolen from the wife, shown violence, explosiveness with protesters, weak suicide attempt, manipulation by blaming his behavior on Cindy, been avoidant, reckless with money, allegedly cheated, and in statements heard by the public the subject always turns to being about him. If Cindy had been very controlling they wouldn't have done all that they did to her and the finances.

The type of woman who'd allow themselves to be treated that way and allow it to happen again and again and STOP everyone from finding out the truth (like when he went to sports store and then told Cindy Casey didn't even work there, yet Cindy told him to stay out of it, and lying about a pregancy that is so obvious a CHILD could spot it, ) and holding nobody accountable, even enabling the behaviors, has something very wrong with the way they think, cope and reason. They did what they did because they knew she'd do nothing about it. The controling part, IMO was that they had to PLAY along to the outside world... they were her property. She re-invented Casey's entire life to suite the picture she wanted! Can you imagine what that must feel like?!

 

[mitzi]

RS&BBM for focus

You made me take a walk through SP's transcript again, and I do believe there are some "tells" therein about the piece I bolded up there... http://www.wftv.com/blank/18974289/detail.html Seems we're each viewing this through the lens of our own personal experience, and looking through my lens, what stands out in this interview is that SP doesn't seem to have challenged or confronted CA much herself. You have generations of avoidance/non-confrontation/denial, you end up with a bunch of anger (again, this through my lens)...

I'm not trying to blame an innocent elderly woman for KC's actions at all, but IMO, this is a systemic dysfunction. CA did not just spring fully formed upon the world like Athena bursting out of Zeus's skull. The total family dynamic goes far beyond CA/KC's issues.

:cow: and I have to say, I very much admire the folks here who can dissect the motions and interpret the law and the forensics, but I equally admire the folks here who can dissect the motivations and interpret the actions and the, well, the :banghead:. We're each here for a reason. (That is, two reasons--Caylee being the first.)

One thing we know nothing about is, what sort of person was Cindy's father like before he became elderly, probably mellowed some. We don't know if maybe Cindy could have learned her ways from him. We just don't know and probably never will.

 

[logicalgirl]

LG, about the only thing I can add to your post, is to be indifferent of someone, you have to hate them first. You either hate them for what they have done to you, or you hate what they did.

Nope, it's not a conflict in my statement either. When one has demands and injustices put upon them for years and years, especially from the person who is suppose to love and protect you, your hatred towards them grows. Along with love, a sick love. Not as we know love. OLG and I see it as a passive/aggressive love. The individual administering the love hasn't a clue what love is either. They mimic what they see outside of their environment to outsiders.

If one is strong enough internally and KNOWS the difference, they remove themselves from the situation and move on with life. Hopefully one finds an individual who they can depend upon to help them sort through this. It's a damming soul who doesn't. The cycle just goes on in the next generation.

The ones who do manage to distance themselves and seek help still goes on with self-doubts and mistrust. Some may stumble alpng the way. That's part of lifes learning. Some may never trust another human, but learn of to life according to society rules.

I have said this many times and probably will say it over and over.

Life is NOT a rehearsal. There are no do-overs. You get one chance and only one. You can either go through life being bitter and angry. Or you can be the best you can and make contributions, no matter how small you think they are. No one can make these decisions for any one else. It is a personal commitment to change ones path in life.

ICA made the conscious decision she was going to make Cindy pay for all the injustices she felt Cindy caused her. Whether they were real or not. In ICAs mind they were real. ICA manipulated CA as much as CA manipulated ICA. They thrived off of each other. Neither one willing to let the other win. Again, I don't give ICA or CA a pass for their actions and complicity in Caylee's murder.

How do I know what I speak of? Been there, done that in my youth. ICA apparently didn't have a teacher or adult who would get involved. Or my guess is if there was one, CA made sure she manipulated the truth.

The interactions we have seen between ICA and CA, GA and LE are an act for outsiders. We only catch a glimpse of the true relationships when they slip out. CAs civil depo is a great example. It's a doozie of her controlling nature. LE/FBI is another of her lies to manipulate how she needs others to view and judge her. The last hearing is another of her preparing herself to be ICAs myrtar. And the email she recently sent to channel 6 of having grandous illusions of importance. CA moves from one role into another without blinking an eye. She doesn't need to research the role she needs to project as an actress would. It comes to her automatically. Just as ICA can cry and lie on demand. Stick a finger in their eye to produce tears.

CA even managed how to turn Caylee's murder into $$$$$. CA has found a new purpose and direction. And she is happy as a pig in mud following it. CA won't change her ways. She was right when she said she and ICA are made from the same cloth. Both are cold hearted individuals who feed off and enjoy inflicting emotional and physical pain on others. It is their choice of drugs.

First big hugs!!!
But I gotta tell you - we are on different ends of a football field.

I am indifferent to many people and things - I simply have no interest in them, I neither love them nor hate them - they simply don't look interesting enough for me to investigate, so I move on to things I am puzzled about or curious or challenged by, and/or can learn from. Neither love or hate even get on the sidelines in this picture.

Cindy's civil deposition. Right. Classic bi=polar in manic phase - classic - right down to the way she was sitting. My guess why we are seeing none of the whacked out outbursts? She's on a daily dose of at least lithium and at least one other ant-depressant. You can try and talk me out of the last couple of sentences but it won't work because I've lived it. Truly. Years worth. Not budging on that one - I knew what Cindy was going to do before she did it in those videos. I made myself watch them when it was happening but I won't watch it twice. Too close to home.

 

[OneLostGrl]

First big hugs!!!
But I gotta tell you - we are on different ends of a football field.

I am indifferent to many people and things - I simply have no interest in them, I neither love them nor hate them - they simply don't look interesting enough for me to investigate, so I move on to things I am puzzled about or curious or challenged by, and/or can learn from. Neither love or hate even get on the sidelines in this picture.

Cindy's civil deposition. Right. Classic bi=polar in manic phase - classic - right down to the way she was sitting. My guess why we are seeing none of the whacked out outbursts? She's on a daily dose of at least lithium and at least one other ant-depressant. You can try and talk me out of the last couple of sentences but it won't work because I've lived it. Truly. Years worth. Not budging on that one - I knew what Cindy was going to do before she did it in those videos. I made myself watch them when it was happening but I won't watch it twice. Too close to home.

:waitasec:

 

[hollyhobby1973]

The type of woman who'd allow themselves to be treated that way and allow it to happen again and again and STOP everyone from finding out the truth (like when he went to sports store and then told Cindy Casey didn't even work there, yet Cindy told him to stay out of it, and lying about a pregancy that is so obvious a CHILD could spot it, ) and holding nobody accountable, even enabling the behaviors, has something very wrong with the way they think, cope and reason. They did what they did because they knew she'd do nothing about it. The controling part, IMO was that they had to PLAY along to the outside world... they were her property. She re-invented Casey's entire life to suite the picture she wanted! Can you imagine what that must feel like?!

Love reading your post's and replies OLG!!! I agree and I think CA has allowed all these things to happen. She allowd ICA to continue to steal and lie. I used to really have some pity for CA until she continued to deny that ICA could have anything to do with Caylee's disappearance/death. I know that denial is part of grief, but at some point you have to look outside of your own denials and see the bigger picture. IMO you can only be a victim of certain things once. If you continue to let someone treat you this way...well then you just become an enabler.

 

[LambChop]

KC wanted out from under the A's household. CA saw Caylee as a chance to start over with a new daughter. KC eliminated that possibility. I think CA sees KC getting out of jail as a chance to start over again. jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I watched a program last night, Nightline Prime...Secrets of the mind, why we do what we do...
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Prime/nightline-prime-secrets-mind/story?id=11394776


Neuroscientist had examined the brains of two serial killers, Tommy Sells and Joel Rifkin, they also looked into Chris Benois (famous wrestler who killed his wife son and then commited suicide). The frontal lobe of their brains were severly damaged, which is what turned them to violence and made them sociopaths...Very good show with much information....

The Brain and Violence


Martin Bashir takes a journey inside the mind of a psychopath, examining evil's origin in the brain and whether people can be born with a tendency for evil or violent behavior and if it can be detected in childhood.

Bashir visits death row for a close-up look at two of the country's most notorious serial killers: Tommy Lynn Sells and Joel Rifkin. Were they born to kill? It's a question researchers who study psychopathy have been hard at work to answer.

Bashir also speaks exclusively to the distraught father of Chris Benoit, the pro-wrestler who murdered his family and then killed himself. Doctors later describe how they believe Benoit had suffered extensive brain damage in the ring that drove him to murder. These doctors say the kind of brain damage found in Benoit's brain is the same damage seen in multiple pro-football players, who also met tragic ends after years of concussions and subconncussive blows on the field.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Prime/nightline-prime-secrets-mind/story?id=11394776

I would love for ICA's brain along with CA's brain be examined. It would definately be interesting to see if they too have this extensive "brain damage" which might be the reason for the sociopathic tendencies we all tend to see in them...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[countzero]

First big hugs!!!
But I gotta tell you - we are on different ends of a football field.

I am indifferent to many people and things - I simply have no interest in them, I neither love them nor hate them - they simply don't look interesting enough for me to investigate, so I move on to things I am puzzled about or curious or challenged by, and/or can learn from. Neither love or hate even get on the sidelines in this picture.

Cindy's civil deposition. Right. Classic bi=polar in manic phase - classic - right down to the way she was sitting. My guess why we are seeing none of the whacked out outbursts? She's on a daily dose of at least lithium and at least one other ant-depressant. You can try and talk me out of the last couple of sentences but it won't work because I've lived it. Truly. Years worth. Not budging on that one - I knew what Cindy was going to do before she did it in those videos. I made myself watch them when it was happening but I won't watch it twice. Too close to home.

lol, not really on opposite ends. .... we are both closer to the 50 yard line than you think,

I don't believe CA is on any heavy medication that would change her demeanor now. She is as sharp and vindictive as before. She plays to her audience, switching her approach as needed to accomplish her plan. Meds don't cause the change; her strong will does.

What I predict is CA will finally show us (as we watch in horror, mouths in wide gasp position) during the sentence phase. JBarrett has not disclosed what ICA and others have conveyed to her about ICAs history. Only then will we find out. I firmly believe we will hear stories of physical beatings and mental beat downs ...... and all administered by the hands of Cindy. CA will be publicly undressed down to her soul by this report and she will not be able to stop it. And people will believe it because of her past behaviors. It will cause such a rage in her.

And I for one won't feel pity because she has been exposed for the person she is. No pity for ICA either. Only sadness that an innocent child as Caylee was, she had to be part of that dysfunctional unit.

 

[logicalgirl]

I think the huge difference between your thoughts and mine is that I accept ICA is a psychopath - always has been and always will be. So with a psychopath, there is no love/hate battle - since they simply don't have even the basis of feelings you and I have.

And unless Barrett or any other mitigation specialist can verify any incidents ICA speaks about, why would anyone believe one word of what ICA says? She has proven herself to be a liar of a much deeper kind than I can even comprehend.

I just don't see Cindy having the personal power some of you are prepared to give her. I agree she has tried just about every kind of manipulation possible to get ICA to conform, and clearly made little or no difference to ICA's behavior - but being this powerhouse you describe her as being? I don't see it - and as I said before - while Cindy may be trying passive/aggressive behavior, ICA is not in the loop at all - she doesn't care and never has. And Cindy is clearly medicated. Compare her 911 testimony to her civil disposition - she isn't that much of an actress. Her body language is completely different, as is her eye movement - everything about her. And I'm not talking about her physical appearance - she's had personal grooming what a grieving grandmother should look like advise - I'm speaking of much deeper than than. I agree Cindy is a silly - no ridiculous woman whose behavior is unrecognizable to any one who expects "normal" behavior - but powerful? The one who is running the whole show? Not to me. Seems more like an unruly teenager no one has put the brakes on. But the drugs are helping.
To me - while watching Cindy's antics gives me something to do while ICA is hidden away and the evidence rolls out, she is such a bit player in this drama when we get to trial, what she thinks or does will not matter at all.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

On that program last night. The psychopath wants control, wants to control everyone and everything...which is why, I believe CA and ICA have always bumped heads. Each wanting to control the other and the family...which was the battle with precious Caylee..IMO I do see ICA more defined than CA but I do believe they both have those traits...JMHO

I'm telling you, the program I saw last night, surely opened my eyes..Did anyone else watch???

Justice for Caylee

 

[countzero]

I think the huge difference between your thoughts and mine is that I accept ICA is a psychopath - always has been and always will be. So with a psychopath, there is no love/hate battle - since they simply don't have even the basis of feelings you and I have.

And unless Barrett or any other mitigation specialist can verify any incidents ICA speaks about, why would anyone believe one word of what ICA says? She has proven herself to be a liar of a much deeper kind than I can even comprehend.

I just don't see Cindy having the personal power some of you are prepared to give her. I agree she has tried just about every kind of manipulation possible to get ICA to conform, and clearly made little or no difference to ICA's behavior - but being this powerhouse you describe her as being? I don't see it - and as I said before - while Cindy may be trying passive/aggressive behavior, ICA is not in the loop at all - she doesn't care and never has. And Cindy is clearly medicated. Compare her 911 testimony to her civil disposition - she isn't that much of an actress. Her body language is completely different, as is her eye movement - everything about her. And I'm not talking about her physical appearance - she's had personal grooming what a grieving grandmother should look like advise - I'm speaking of much deeper than than. I agree Cindy is a silly - no ridiculous woman whose behavior is unrecognizable to any one who expects "normal" behavior - but powerful? The one who is running the whole show? Not to me. Seems more like an unruly teenager no one has put the brakes on. But the drugs are helping.
To me - while watching Cindy's antics gives me something to do while ICA is hidden away and the evidence rolls out, she is such a bit player in this drama when we get to trial, what she thinks or does will not matter at all.

Well dear friend, I tried to snip your post for space, but couldn't.

Your first two paras ..... CA is a huge mixed bag of disorders, not one being more overt than the others. CA has psychopathic threads running in her cloth along with other disorders. She just isn't a full blown psychopath where ICA is, imho.

If ICA had not murdered Caylee and was only being accused of neglect or doing physical harm, then I could see where other family members and close friends would not disclose their inner most feelings of suspected abuse to an outsider. But this isn't the case.

The abuser, like I believe CA and subsequently ICA are, have years of experience hiding the abuse they dealt out. For outsiders to see it, the abuse has to be so obvious. And the abuser makes sure it isn't. The immediate family knows and out of fear of exposure allow it to continue. The abuser goes off then will profusely apologize, but in doing so will transfer the blame on the victim. See what you made me do ...... statements that clearly deny their actions or responsibility for the beatings.

Over time other family members, teachers notice it but are unable to prove it. Although they firmly remember. Which is what I believe will happen. Shirley, her sons, GAs parents, sisters, former teachers, former neighbors, friends will all have an input of their personal observations of family life within the A compound. I have to believe these people will be honest and be a voice for Caylee and stand up to CA. I don't believe any of them want it on their conscious they let Caylee die in vein to save CAs or ICA personal reputation.

They haven't publicly supported CA in the search for Caylee, they didn't buy into her and ICAs lies. They distanced themselves for reasons.

 

[essies]

On that program last night. The psychopath wants control, wants to control everyone and everything...which is why, I believe CA and ICA have always bumped heads. Each wanting to control the other and the family...which was the battle with precious Caylee..IMO I do see ICA more defined than CA but I do believe they both have those traits...JMHO

I'm telling you, the program I saw last night, surely opened my eyes..Did anyone else watch???

Justice for Caylee

Here's the link-
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/mind-psychopath-11492876
I just watched the first segment-OMG!! How frightening!!

 

[pip]

Enabling is a co-dependent behavior. The enabler also has something to gain. As long as Cindy enabled, KC would not grow emotionally, psychologically..therefore obtaining independence (self reliance) and maturity. She would remain in the co-dependent relationship where she needed Cindy. End result being, of course, that KC was not 'able' to take Caylee away from Cindy. If KC became defiant and posed a threat to Cindy's security with Caylee, I am guessing this is where the threat of getting legal guardianship of Caylee came into play, as KC was a disabled mother (thanks to a lifetime with Cindy). It was a real tug-of-war. Cindy needed Caylee in her home, so she allowed and encouraged (consciously and subconsciously) KC's inability to become self-reliant as a young mother. Cindy created a double-edged sword for for the damaged KC, resulting in what must have seemed to be a no way out situation..can't stay but can't leave, so she killed Caylee to break free from Cindy's clutches in the sick co-dependent relationship. Caylee had become an object in this war. The power struggle over Caylee had become so bitter, leaving Caylee behind with Cindy and fleeing for freedom was not an option.. KC knew she could not take care of Caylee on her own, but she would not let Cindy 'win'.

 

[logicalgirl]

Well dear friend, I tried to snip your post for space, but couldn't.

Your first two paras ..... CA is a huge mixed bag of disorders, not one being more overt than the others. CA has psychopathic threads running in her cloth along with other disorders. She just isn't a full blown psychopath where ICA is, imho.

If ICA had not murdered Caylee and was only being accused of neglect or doing physical harm, then I could see where other family members and close friends would not disclose their inner most feelings of suspected abuse to an outsider. But this isn't the case.

The abuser, like I believe CA and subsequently ICA are, have years of experience hiding the abuse they dealt out. For outsiders to see it, the abuse has to be so obvious. And the abuser makes sure it isn't. The immediate family knows and out of fear of exposure allow it to continue. The abuser goes off then will profusely apologize, but in doing so will transfer the blame on the victim. See what you made me do ...... statements that clearly deny their actions or responsibility for the beatings.

Over time other family members, teachers notice it but are unable to prove it. Although they firmly remember. Which is what I believe will happen. Shirley, her sons, GAs parents, sisters, former teachers, former neighbors, friends will all have an input of their personal observations of family life within the A compound. I have to believe these people will be honest and be a voice for Caylee and stand up to CA. I don't believe any of them want it on their conscious they let Caylee die in vein to save CAs or ICA personal reputation.

They haven't publicly supported CA in the search for Caylee, they didn't buy into her and ICAs lies. They distanced themselves for reasons.

Have I missed some evidence or information here? Do we have information stating Cindy has beaten ICA? I understand we have the "choking" incident on Father's Day, but to my understanding, that is a rumor yet to be verified.
Beatings?

 

[logicalgirl]

Enabling is a co-dependent behavior. The enabler also has something to gain. As long as Cindy enabled, KC would not grow emotionally, psychologically..therefore obtaining independence (self reliance) and maturity. She would remain in the co-dependent relationship where she needed Cindy. End result being, of course, that KC was not 'able' to take Caylee away from Cindy. If KC became defiant and posed a threat to Cindy's security with Caylee, I am guessing this is where the threat of getting legal guardianship of Caylee came into play, as KC was a disabled mother (thanks to a lifetime with Cindy). It was a real tug-of-war. Cindy needed Caylee in her home, so she allowed and encouraged (consciously and subconsciously) KC's inability to become self-reliant as a young mother. Cindy created a double-edged sword for for the damaged KC, resulting in what must have seemed to be a no way out situation..can't stay but can't leave, so she killed Caylee to break free from Cindy's clutches in the sick co-dependent relationship. Caylee had become an object in this war. The power struggle over Caylee had become so bitter, leaving Caylee behind with Cindy and fleeing for freedom was not an option.. KC knew she could not take care of Caylee on her own, but she would not let Cindy 'win'.

Yes, I agree with your definition of co-dependant behavior, but to have co-dependency, both parties must be emotionally engaged. The only person ICA is engaged emotionally with is herself, IMO. I would call it more like ICA "toying"with Cindy.

 

[pip]

Yes, I agree with your definition of co-dependant behavior, but to have co-dependency, both parties must be emotionally engaged. The only person ICA is engaged emotionally with is herself, IMO. I would call it more like ICA "toying"with Cindy.

I think KC was engaged also. She felt she needed Cindy (yet resented it). She was unable to sustain employment, go to college, become independent. Instead of Cindy helping her navigate those things to become independent, she sabotaged her by allowing her to lie about having a job, gave her money, bought all of Caylee's clothes, toys (in abundance) and provided medical, food, etc. The 'toying' with Cindy came from the resentment, but she was emotionally and physically co-dependent on Cindy for her survival, and Caylee's, before the resentment and entrapment became unbearable. Her only option out in her mind, was to find a husband to take Cindy's place. She could not provide for Caylee or herself.