Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

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Did you cite any sources? I can't find any kind of a reference page. It doesn't seem to be evidence based. I have to say I don't agree with much in the handout. It's not strengths based or culturally inclusive...I don't mean to offend you but I don't think the DSM is in any way a bad thing or a tool to funnel money to anyone. It can certainly be misused, as many people are doing on this thread, but it is a valuable if not essential tool imo.

Hi Horace,
I guess we will have to agree to disagree about the merits of DSM, particularly with respect to personality disorders. Interesting that the current rationale for "updating" personality disorders in DSM-V is consistent with my rationale against DSM-IV personality disorders as detailed in SOLOMON'S CRIME PREVENTION PACKAGE ... but, that is just a side bar to this thread.

Regarding the money, if you do not have a diagnosis, you do not get Medicare or Medicaid reimbursment. Not much mystery about "following the money."

Russell
 
ITA with Russell. A very good book I would recommend along these lines is "The Selling of DSM: The Rhetoric of Science in Psychiatry" by Stuart A. Kirk & Herb Kutchins.

ETA: While this 1992 edition specifically addresses the DSM II to DSM III update, I believe the authors' objections to the process are relevant and still have merit. A more recent (2003) book by the same authors is "Making Us Crazy: DSM: The Psychiatric Bible and the Creation of Mental Disorders."
 
Did you cite any sources? I can't find any kind of a reference page. It doesn't seem to be evidence based. I have to say I don't agree with much in the handout. It's not strengths based or culturally inclusive...I don't mean to offend you but I don't think the DSM is in any way a bad thing or a tool to funnel money to anyone. It can certainly be misused, as many people are doing on this thread, but it is a valuable if not essential tool imo.

He's the source.
 
OneLostGirl, you must come share your view on LA. PWEEZE!!!!

All I can say about him is he totally creeps me out and gives me the willies. ugggh.
:cow: moo imo

I'm not really comfortable discussing Lee because he has chosen to do the right thing and stay quiet (unlike his parents) and I have mad respect for that. So this is what I'll say- we talk about people who don't "feel"? Go back and watch video's of Lee and the times he should have been angry (times most people would be angry)- times his actions are seemingly driven by anger.. he is calm, eerily so. When he was dumping the dog food and destorying that ladies sign, those are angry actions but his affect was anything but- he was chatting, even chuckling with whomever was controling the camera that followed him around. I also don't think he's "on Casey's side" like he tries to make it seem.. if it weren't for Lee we wouldn't know half the bad stuff we do about Casey.. or Cindy for that matter. He's the one who told that Cindy did know about Dom going in the woods, etc.

But.. he knows to shut his mouth in public and to the media and deserves respect for that so I put those other things aside for now.. that "I love you" in court almost made me change my mind though, I gotta tell ya.
 
Hi crucibelle and Welcome to the thread and to WS. I have not yet read ahead on the thread but want to ask/comment about something before it leaves my head.

Regarding anti-social/psychopathy. Here's where I get lost - you know how KC was undependable (KC continually bailed on Amy for instance) and KC was a shameless liar (to be honest I think I would have had her number after two months or so). She demonstrated an attitude that she cared more about herself and fulfilling her own needs than standing behind her word to a friend or following through on a promise. That could fall under narcissism and/or plain old selfishness. KC seemed to fly by the seat of her pants and do little planning ahead. She operated in a made up world and, amazingly, nobody questioned her about her wonderful setup (nanny, never had to physically be at work, worked short hours for making enough to pay a nanny all the time, etc.) Name a young person who has all that. My take on a sociopath is a person who goes about their business with their bad doings in mind. Like the craigslist killer guy who paraded as one person but had this evil/dark other life that he set people up to fulfill his need of whatever that is (beyond my comprehension). But he is intelligent.

The sociopaths seem to strangely have a high intellect. I don't see that in KC. She's a seasoned liar but doesn't seem to have a plan (we'll see if the computer forensics prove otherwise). Maybe she is one and this was just the first real serious plot she planned to fulfill to get what she wanted, her freedom - not too smart.

What I'm trying to say is that sociopaths seem to appear seemlessly regular until they get found out. KC doesn't seem to me to be 'regular'. She tried to please those she wanted to please so she did develop a level of charm that is characteristic of people who fool other people, she was a user but so are a lot of people in one way or another. I'm still not sure she fits sociopath though. I'm not able to accurately convey my point I don't think. What am I missing?

I guess I still don't get the difference between a Narcissist and a Sociopath. If a narcissist killed someone accidently would they hide it yet still have a conscious about what they had done? A sociopath has no conscious I guess and think they should not have to answer to anybody else for their actions. I guess that sounds like KC and CA and GA. :waitasec:

Narcissists don't set out to be or do evil.. they just do what they do (which is take care of themselves and their needs and wants) and if someone gets hurt in the process, oops.. the end justifies the means. The psychopath enjoys inflicting pain, they look for people to victimise.. they set out to hurt and take advantage of others. The narcissist victimises but only to fill their needs.. they don't go out, like the psychopath, saying "I need another victim" they go out saying "I need someone to love me" the rest happens because they are simply toxic human beings. The narcissist and the psychopath both disregard society and lack empathy but the narcissist can control their impulses better.. the narcissist needs other people.. the psychopath- not so much. The narcissist needs recognition, praise, admiration.. they are grandiose and inflate their accomplishments.. they think they are special and expect to be treated special. Narcissists don't think they should have to answer to anyone as long as they are having their needs met- they rationalize things- twist 'em around till they make sense. And unlike what most believe narcissists don't "love themselves", they hurt inside and have low self esteem which is why they have a hard time being alone and react in ugly ways when left.. they need their narcissistic supply- they are empty without it. The psychopath is just empty.

In short, the narcissist is motivated by manipulating the world around them the psychopath by causing harm and creating pain- winning at all costs.

jmo
 
ITA with Russell. A very good book I would recommend along these lines is "The Selling of DSM: The Rhetoric of Science in Psychiatry" by Stuart A. Kirk & Herb Kutchins.

ETA: While this 1992 edition specifically addresses the DSM II to DSM III update, I believe the authors' objections to the process are relevant and still have merit. A more recent (2003) book by the same authors is "Making Us Crazy: DSM: The Psychiatric Bible and the Creation of Mental Disorders."

When they lumped the antisocial personality and the psychopath I was like :waitasec:
 
I think it bombed because we didn't know the subject well enough and possibly (me) were afraid to get to know him better even if we could. IMO it would be hard to answer the questions accurately on someone unless you have personal experience with them.

Once, a long time ago, I filled out a test like that about myself (not sure what it was called) and the guy who deciphered it told me I wanted to rub shoulders with the people at the top - ha! I thought what the heck does that mean? I couldn't tell if it was a criticism or not. Instead of asking him if that had a deeper meaning, I left thinking 'I guess I'm a snob". I've often wondered about what he was really trying to convey as if it would be wrong to reach for the stars so-to-speak. Anyway, I guess if that was the worst thing revealed it was not too bad but I don't recall him sharing anything else with me about what the test revealed. Maybe I can still find that paper in a file somewhere or do I dare? :crazy:

Bold is mine
haha really? I don't get that impression of you AT ALL.. you are totally your own person! What was it a Dianetics "personality test" (in other words- Scientology)? hahaa. I don't "know" you like for real but one of the things I like best about you is that you are so real- you say what you feel- screw what anyone has to say about it (I love that in a person! )someone who wants to rub shoulders would not be real that way. You are not a snob, girl! :blowkiss:
 
Thanks OLG - you made my day. I'll consider your words an early B-day present (tomorrow).

I'll have to find that paper - I think I left it in my medical records. Maybe it had something to do with us being in the Army at the time and a Psychologist on post conducted the test. I only went there because I needed to talk to somebody after I had cancer, 911, sniper, etc. I was having anxiety - :crazy:. He had me fill out all these forms - I think they make you into a specimen or something. :blowkiss:

P.S. Now I should go see someone to help me cope with aging but I doubt it would help. Acceptance, acceptance, acceptance, or Botox?
God help me change the things I can change, accept the things I cannot and grant me the wisdom to know the difference.

Now about George . . . . he plays dumb but he may just be the spoke that spins the wheel imo.
Adding - Oh no! The first sign of dimensia. I thought I was on the GA thread!
 
Wow, I disagree that narcissists don't want to be or mean to be evil. There's two in my family and I'm convinced that they are evil. They don't care if they're left as long as there is someone around to manipulate. They will just move on, but will manipulate and use any situation to scapegoa and will even make up lies to hurt others. Narcissists rage, scream, lie, manipulate, falsely accuse, abuse, etc. All are evil sins and done to others, usually someone they've picked to abuse. It's not all about their self esteem or just focusing on themselves, it's like they have to have others to hurt and abuse and there is no remorse. If I'm correct in understanding the new classifications in the dsm, I'm glad that they seem to have lumped narcissists in with psychopaths. IMO, they are the same but most narcissists don't move on to killing. They kill and destroy slowly without actually committing a crime.
That's why I think GA has some of the narcissistic traits with the constant scapegoating of Cindy. Just a few well chose sentences combined with her frazzled nerves has most everyone despising her and he comes out smelling like a rose. People who have had it done to them and seen it can spot it for what it is. Casey learned to do that real well, but of course, not to kill.
 
Wow, I disagree that narcissists don't want to be or mean to be evil. There's two in my family and I'm convinced that they are evil. They don't care if they're left as long as there is someone around to manipulate. They will just move on, but will manipulate and use any situation to scapegoa and will even make up lies to hurt others. Narcissists rage, scream, lie, manipulate, falsely accuse, abuse, etc. All are evil sins and done to others, usually someone they've picked to abuse. It's not all about their self esteem or just focusing on themselves, it's like they have to have others to hurt and abuse and there is no remorse. If I'm correct in understanding the new classifications in the dsm, I'm glad that they seem to have lumped narcissists in with psychopaths. IMO, they are the same but most narcissists don't move on to killing. They kill and destroy slowly without actually committing a crime.
That's why I think GA has some of the narcissistic traits with the constant scapegoating of Cindy. Just a few well chose sentences combined with her frazzled nerves has most everyone despising her and he comes out smelling like a rose. People who have had it done to them and seen it can spot it for what it is. Casey learned to do that real well, but of course, not to kill.

That's what I said.. as long as their needs are being met (in other words as long as everyone in their life is doing what they want, when they want it and how they want it) they are fine. But try and leave 'em, take away the source of their "supply" (the person who allows them to abuse 'em) and you see a very toxic side of them. If they cannot manipulate the world around them- watch out. The behaviors of a psychopath and a narcissist are much the same- the reasons behind the behaviors are not.
 
I never thought ICA has the traits of a psychopath.CA I would definetely say narcissist.
I think ICA is a compulsive liar and incredibly immature.I think she is driven by the need to be liked,at all costs.She would lie,steal and even murder her own child to reach that goal.In the beginning I did not think TL's statement that he did not want girls was not that important but now I think that was actually what sealed poor Caylee's fate.
At this last hearing when ICA complimented Baez on his hair (uggh) it was so obvious she just wanted a compliment about her hair in return.When she did not get it she turned completly insecure about her hairstyle and started frantically fuzzing with it.I think if there would have been sissors she would have cut all her hair off.
 
I never thought ICA has the traits of a psychopath.CA I would definetely say narcissist.
I think ICA is a compulsive liar and incredibly immature.I think she is driven by the need to be liked,at all costs.She would lie,steal and even murder her own child to reach that goal.In the beginning I did not think TL's statement that he did not want girls was not that important but now I think that was actually what sealed poor Caylee's fate.
At this last hearing when ICA complimented Baez on his hair (uggh) it was so obvious she just wanted a compliment about her hair in return.When she did not get it she turned completly insecure about her hairstyle and started frantically fuzzing with it.I think if there would have been sissors she would have cut all her hair off.

And did you hear that TL's new girlfriend has a child and guess what? Somebody said that the child is a girl. Can this true story ever stop getting weirder?

Or KC may have stabbed Jose! :eek:

Hey, did everyone see all the new Smilies there are? Here's a sample:
::noooo::websleuther::lol::giggle::pillowfight2: :eek:fftobed: :countsheep:
 
Carry on:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124604"]Casey & Family Psychological Profile #11[/ame]
 
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