Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

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Yeah, I hear ya. He was also a bit too happy to be able to talk crap to Cindy-like he has a grudge and has just been waiting for payback day. I don't like my sister but if something happened to her child I can't see lashing out like that. To me that's a time where everything else should be set aside, ya know? I wish we could talk to him!

Respectfully BBM

However, we really do not know the dynamics of the relationship over the years between Rick and Cindy. Nor do we know what Rick may have done to encourage some type of rehabilitation with his son before "disowning" him. Maybe it was more of a tough love situation with him.

I even think it was possibly a bit of a tough love situation with Cindy. After all, as we have seen all too often with her, she lashes out at anyone who does not see things the way she wants them to be seen.

Trial will certainly be interesting, and may answer many questions we have had for some time now.
 
You are a better person then me because the thought (succeeding in life- making my own way, the right way) never even entered my mind until about 8 years ago... and I'm almost 40! I have come a long way but I still doubt myself.. I won't even sign up for school because I feel I will just screw it up, drop out- ruin it somehow. I fail- it's all I have ever done... logically I know I'm not that person anymore but it's a difficult thing to unlearn.

You are very strong.. carry that with pride!

Oh My God, OneLostGirl, are you thinking I'm saying I've never failed??

No, no, no!!! Of course I have - Failure just means you need to learn more - just keep going is what I'm saying. Face in the wind, just keep walking, you WILL get there.

Every time you fail, get up and reach a goal, no matter how small, you'll be that much stronger, and each time the failure and getting up gets that much easier. Pretty soon you'll be able to laugh about it.
 
[/B]

Sorry I didn't answer that last question. I feel the way I do - and it may surprise you - because in a way I was lucky. Somehow I knew when I became an adult and free of being a government ward, (which is another way of saying perm foster kid, unavailable for adoption) what I would have is a choice. What I came from was part of me, the fabric of who I was, but I had a choice to build on that. That's the one thing I did know - I had a choice.

I must say that you had amazing foresight for a child/young person. Most people, let alone a child, cannot think ahead like you were able to do.
Also to have vision for the future at a young age is unusual too imo. lol - I think I just said the same thing again. Oprah said she always had that/felt that too. Also you share in common with her the love of books - the love of reading may have caused the needed positive escape. Your intelligence (capability) is genetic though I would think.
 
Oh My God, OneLostGirl, are you thinking I'm saying I've never failed??

No, no, no!!! Of course I have - Failure just means you need to learn more - just keep going is what I'm saying. Face in the wind, just keep walking, you WILL get there.

Every time you fail, get up and reach a goal, no matter how small, you'll be that much stronger, and each time the failure and getting up gets that much easier. Pretty soon you'll be able to laugh about it.

nono I didn't think you were saying that!
 
Okay, that's enough personal drama for me, about me for one day. Resume discussion everyone please!:blowkiss:

I'll be quiet now.
 
Respectfully BBM

However, we really do not know the dynamics of the relationship over the years between Rick and Cindy. Nor do we know what Rick may have done to encourage some type of rehabilitation with his son before "disowning" him. Maybe it was more of a tough love situation with him.

I even think it was possibly a bit of a tough love situation with Cindy. After all, as we have seen all too often with her, she lashes out at anyone who does not see things the way she wants them to be seen.

Trial will certainly be interesting, and may answer many questions we have had for some time now.

You make very good points!
 
A family like this lives in a "us against the world" mind-set.. imo because of that it makes perfect sense that they didn't sign her up for anything.. she doesn't need anything besides them. WE are fully capable of teaching her everything she needs to know... what can she learn from anyone that WE can't teach her here, in our "loving home"? kwim?

Yes, I agree. I think it's pretty well documented that a family with secrets, such as alcoholism or abuse or perhaps a problem like ICA does not reach out to the community for help or friendship. They tend to close the ranks, circle the wagons to keep their family "shame" hidden from others.

We see terrible tragedies where neighbors say - "we never knew, they kept to themselves and seemed to be such nice people".

Well, the neighbors didn't say that about Cindy though did they? LOL But there was no reaching out or bringing friends home in that family.
 
You are a better person then me because the thought (succeeding in life- making my own way, the right way) never even entered my mind until about 8 years ago... and I'm almost 40! I have come a long way but I still doubt myself.. I won't even sign up for school because I feel I will just screw it up, drop out- ruin it somehow. I fail- it's all I have ever done... logically I know I'm not that person anymore but it's a difficult thing to unlearn.

You are very strong.. carry that with pride!

Can I ask you what you are using as a ruler, as a measurement of failure? Because you sound pretty smart and you are very computer literate, and you've got some very good thoughts in your head.

The only real measurement is your own progress. Do you know more than you did last year? Did you try anything new this year? If you tried and failed do you know why? Because if you do know why, that's progress/success, and it's not failure.
 
But Cindy sure thought it did. And Cindy is the one who told the whole world about it so it's not speculation. The fact that she did it at all, legally binding or not, clearly shows her mind-set.

She told the whole world about it, but that doesn't mean she actually did it. I take everything Cindy says with a box of salt.
 
No kidding, it's like she wanted it to come out that day..

You know, I'm thinking old brother Rick was getting too much attention, with it being his wedding and all. Maybe CA was trying to grab some of the attention back in her own personality disordered way. :crazy:
 
Respectfully BBM

However, we really do not know the dynamics of the relationship over the years between Rick and Cindy. Nor do we know what Rick may have done to encourage some type of rehabilitation with his son before "disowning" him. Maybe it was more of a tough love situation with him.

I even think it was possibly a bit of a tough love situation with Cindy. After all, as we have seen all too often with her, she lashes out at anyone who does not see things the way she wants them to be seen.

Trial will certainly be interesting, and may answer many questions we have had for some time now.

Hi new to this case, have been reading for months now and just when i think ive read/heard it all i'm floored all over again.. I just recently read the emails between cindy and Rick and his telephone interview by LE and
In the emails Rick released to Yuri, the ones between himself and Cindy he talks about disowning Nate because of lying (taking sides during the divorce) and that many chances were given.. As far as his relationship with cindy those emails/interview spoke volumes IMO... In the interview he said he was surprised KC showed up at his house the day before the wedding obviously Pg and they all denied it.:confused:

you really couldn't make this stuff up.....

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_R_PleseaEmails.htm

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5470183/Casey-Anthony-Rick-Plesea-Interview-(Uncle)
 
I gotta tell you OneLostGirl, it didn't feel like strength at 17, with a new baby, one year of university under my belt, no skills,no job, no parents, and the government eyeing me saying get married or we're taking that kid away from you.

What else can you do but put your face to the wind and start walking?

Honestly, I would have been scared out of my mind! The very fact that you have survived the trial by fire intact, speaks volumes about your character.
 
Hi new to this case, have been reading for months now and just when i think ive read/heard it all i'm floored all over again.. I just recently read the emails between cindy and Rick and his telephone interview by LE and
In the emails Rick released to Yuri, the ones between himself and Cindy he talks about disowning Nate because of lying (taking sides during the divorce) and that many chances were given.. As far as his relationship with cindy those emails/interview spoke volumes IMO... In the interview he said he was surprised KC showed up at his house the day before the wedding obviously Pg and they all denied it.:confused:

you really couldn't make this stuff up.....

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_R_PleseaEmails.htm

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5470183/Casey-Anthony-Rick-Plesea-Interview-(Uncle)


mousesweepingwelcomehgckn4.gif
 
great post.

Bold is mine-
Neither was Casey IMO. How easy it seems to be for Cindy to re-write Casey's life history to fit the niche she needs it to.

Exactly. Cindy spent so much time trying to make Casey the great mother that Cindy was that Caylee got lost in the process. Cindy needs to learn that you can't MAKE someone do what you want. You have to accept them for who they are. My mom had to do that with me, and thank God she did. There's just no way Cindy can make Casey be Cindy all over again. And killing Caylee was Casey's way of saying "Mom, I am not you, I will never be you, and I don't ever want to be you." And Cindy still isn't hearing it.

One thing that stands out to me as other peeps have discussed before, is that CA, GA and KC had not begun to expand Caylee's activities by enrolling her in a program involving other children or taking her to the community pool with another young friend, etc. She was still under three but they all seemed clueless that Caylee should begin to have a little life of her own outside of just what they felt like doing. At least have someone of the same age child over for a play date. I spent too many hours in Chucky Cheese, clipped coupons to make a visit there affordable, etc. because I knew my child should be around other young children, learn to take his turn, laugh among the other kids, etc. At first I enjoyed observing him delight in his activities at park like settings. Later, I layed aside the time it took for these kinds of activities and my germ phobes, because I knew it was good for him and he needed kid stuff to do. Did it never dawn on CA or KC that Caylee should be branching out too but needed them to provide the exposure?

This is further proof regarding the extension of thyself theories. Caylee was required to do what they wanted. They did provide a nice play yard for Caylee but never included other children for her to play with.


ITA! Why socialize her? She was nothing but a tool to make Casey a better person. Why allow her to develop her own friends and personality away from Casey and Cindy? She won't need anyone except her immediate family anyway! And her immediate family will just tell her what's best for her, no need for her to figure things out on her own!

I'm seeing the same kind of problem with my husband's Aunt for awhile now. She tells my stepdaughter who to be friends with and who not be friends with, and guilts the child, saying her feelings are hurt, if she doesn't do something like call her and tell her good night when she's with us. The girl is twelve. She needs to socialize and have her own friends. His Aunt is way too clingy with her. My stepdaughter is seeing a psychiatrist now, so I'm hoping that the psychiatrist will tell the Aunt to back off at some point.

I think this would have eventually happened with Caylee too. God forbid she would get a life outside of Casey and especially Cindy. I also have the feeling that Cindy was blaming Casey's friends for her problems, so therefore, she would have protected Caylee more from bad friends too. She was going to direct Caylee's entire life, and Casey couldn't stand it. That means all attention on Caylee, and none to Casey. What a sad situation to be born into.
 
Hello everyone... just got done reading thru the whole thread *shew*.

It seems to me when anyone expresses a belief that the Anthony family dynamic had anything to do with how Casey turned out, or Caylee's murder, there are some that automatically think you are 'making excuses' for Casey's behaviour, or implying that you don't think Casey should be punished, etc. So, let me get these things straight before I comment on what I believe the psychological makeup of this family to be.

1) I don't think there is any excuse for Casey's behaviour. I don't think there is any excuse for Casey murdering her daughter. I do NOT blame anyone but Casey for what happened.

2) Being as that I believe Casey murdered her child, I think she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

With that said, I will tell you that I am the type of person who loves to figure out what makes people tick and I'm highly interested in abnormal psych/personality disorders/mood disorders, and personality typology. When someone says "who cares WHY someone did what they did?".... I must disagree whole-heartedly, because I love to learn and try to figure out the "why's". To some, that might seem like a waste of time... but it is not to me. I have also seen a tendency for some people to misconstrue what some of us mean when we say we are trying to 'understand'. When I say I am trying to 'understand' Casey and why she murdered her precious little girl, I am saying that I'm trying to figure out what makes her tick, what disorders she might have (if any), and possibly get some insight on what creates a child-murderer. I am NOT saying that I am trying to 'BE understanding' of Casey as in 'poor Casey she had all these problems, it's not her fault, she couldn't help it', etc. In any case, I hope I have made the distinctions clear. With all that out of the way, here are my OPINIONS on the psychology of the Anthonys:

Cindy -- I think Cindy has Histrionic Personality Disorder, as described by the DSM. After going over everything that is available, thanks to the sunshine law in Florida, I see nothing that leads me to believe that Cindy is Borderline, a Psychopath/ASPD, or Bipolar. In my opinion, HPD covers pretty much everything about her bizarre behaviours. I also think Cindy may have NPD as well, but I'm not as sure about that one.

Casey - This one will be short and sweet -- I think Casey fits under "Antisocial Personality Disorder" quite well. Some professionals differentiate between ASPD and Psychopath/Sociopath, and some do not. I think ASPD fits Casey according to the criteria set forth by the DSM.

George -- I don't think George has any sort of major psychological disorder. I think he's lazy; I think he'd rather live off someone else than work to make his own money; I think he's weak and a pushover... but I don't think he's mentally disordered in any way. If I HAD to choose something for George, I'd say Dependent Personality Disorder.

Lee - Lee is eccentric, no doubt. But does he have some sort of mental disorder? I don't think so. I believe he might have a bit of anxiety that causes him to laugh at very inappropriate times and he has a completely misguided loyalty to his murderous sister (IMO), but I don't think there are any major psychological issues with him.

Now, the question of nature vs nurture when it comes to Casey... I think it's a little of both. I think people may be born with a tendency to ASPD (or some other disorder; I'm just using ASPD as an example because I think that is what fits Casey), but that it can be aggravated and maximised or minimised and blunted (for lack of a better word). Not all of those that are dx'd ASPD or even psychopathic are murderers. It is my belief that IF Casey had been forced to face consequences and punishments, and not constantly let off the hook by Cindy -- this murder MAY have not happened. I think that Casey would STILL have had issues... perhaps she would have still been a thief, a liar, and sexually promiscuous, BUT... maybe, just maybe... she would not have turned out to be a murderess. Do I blame Cindy for Caylee's murder? NO. Casey killed her daughter. But, as I've mentioned before, I think there is value in trying to ascertain WHY people do what the do, make the decisions they do, etc.

So those are my ideas, take'em or leave'em. When it comes to abnormal psych, I have read a lot, studied a lot, and researched a lot (psych was my major in college) BUT... I am NOT a professional, and these are only my humble opinions. Thanks for reading! :)
 
Hello everyone... just got done reading thru the whole thread *shew*.

It seems to me when anyone expresses a belief that the Anthony family dynamic had anything to do with how Casey turned out, or Caylee's murder, there are some that automatically think you are 'making excuses' for Casey's behaviour, or implying that you don't think Casey should be punished, etc. So, let me get these things straight before I comment on what I believe the psychological makeup of this family to be.

1) I don't think there is any excuse for Casey's behaviour. I don't think there is any excuse for Casey murdering her daughter. I do NOT blame anyone but Casey for what happened.

2) Being as that I believe Casey murdered her child, I think she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

With that said, I will tell you that I am the type of person who loves to figure out what makes people tick and I'm highly interested in abnormal psych/personality disorders/mood disorders, and personality typology. When someone says "who cares WHY someone did what they did?".... I must disagree whole-heartedly, because I love to learn and try to figure out the "why's". To some, that might seem like a waste of time... but it is not to me. I have also seen a tendency for some people to misconstrue what some of us mean when we say we are trying to 'understand'. When I say I am trying to 'understand' Casey and why she murdered her precious little girl, I am saying that I'm trying to figure out what makes her tick, what disorders she might have (if any), and possibly get some insight on what creates a child-murderer. I am NOT saying that I am trying to 'BE understanding' of Casey as in 'poor Casey she had all these problems, it's not her fault, she couldn't help it', etc. In any case, I hope I have made the distinctions clear. With all that out of the way, here are my OPINIONS on the psychology of the Anthonys:

Cindy -- I think Cindy has Histrionic Personality Disorder, as described by the DSM. After going over everything that is available, thanks to the sunshine law in Florida, I see nothing that leads me to believe that Cindy is Borderline, a Psychopath/ASPD, or Bipolar. In my opinion, HPD covers pretty much everything about her bizarre behaviours. I also think Cindy may have NPD as well, but I'm not as sure about that one.

Casey - This one will be short and sweet -- I think Casey fits under "Antisocial Personality Disorder" quite well. Some professionals differentiate between ASPD and Psychopath/Sociopath, and some do not. I think ASPD fits Casey according to the criteria set forth by the DSM.

George -- I don't think George has any sort of major psychological disorder. I think he's lazy; I think he'd rather live off someone else than work to make his own money; I think he's weak and a pushover... but I don't think he's mentally disordered in any way. If I HAD to choose something for George, I'd say Dependent Personality Disorder.

Lee - Lee is eccentric, no doubt. But does he have some sort of mental disorder? I don't think so. I believe he might have a bit of anxiety that causes him to laugh at very inappropriate times and he has a completely misguided loyalty to his murderous sister (IMO), but I don't think there are any major psychological issues with him.

Now, the question of nature vs nurture when it comes to Casey... I think it's a little of both. I think people may be born with a tendency to ASPD (or some other disorder; I'm just using ASPD as an example because I think that is what fits Casey), but that it can be aggravated and maximised or minimised and blunted (for lack of a better word). Not all of those that are dx'd ASPD or even psychopathic are murderers. It is my belief that IF Casey had been forced to face consequences and punishments, and not constantly let off the hook by Cindy -- this murder MAY have not happened. I think that Casey would STILL have had issues... perhaps she would have still been a thief, a liar, and sexually promiscuous, BUT... maybe, just maybe... she would not have turned out to be a murderess. Do I blame Cindy for Caylee's murder? NO. Casey killed her daughter. But, as I've mentioned before, I think there is value in trying to ascertain WHY people do what the do, make the decisions they do, etc.

So those are my ideas, take'em or leave'em. When it comes to abnormal psych, I have read a lot, studied a lot, and researched a lot (psych was my major in college) BUT... I am NOT a professional, and these are only my humble opinions. Thanks for reading! :)

Just curious, did you read the following, which concludes that Casey does not have characteristics consistent with the DSM 301.7 Antisocial Personality Disorder? Note: must be viewed with FireFox rather than Internet Explorer.

http://www.crimsonshadows.net/artic...ng-mainmenu-140/168-profiling-casey?showall=1

Russell
 
Just curious, did you read the following, which concludes that Casey does not have characteristics consistent with the DSM 301.7 Antisocial Personality Disorder? Note: must be viewed with FireFox rather than Internet Explorer.

http://www.crimsonshadows.net/artic...ng-mainmenu-140/168-profiling-casey?showall=1

Russell

Hi Russell! I read it and I think it's absolutely fascinating, but... I disagree. I think she has many characteristics consistent with Antisocial Personality Disorder. JMO!

Now, under the "Analysis" section, where it says "In light of the absence of any overall positive correlation with the characteristics of Antisocial Personality Disorder, this combination reveals a level of narcissism that rises to Psychopathy." -- that is possibly something I could get on board with.

BTW, where would someone get one of these BRACE profiles done on them? I think that would be pretty interesting! :)
 
Just curious, did you read the following, which concludes that Casey does not have characteristics consistent with the DSM 301.7 Antisocial Personality Disorder? Note: must be viewed with FireFox rather than Internet Explorer.

http://www.crimsonshadows.net/artic...ng-mainmenu-140/168-profiling-casey?showall=1

Russell

Russell -- I read over the criteria for NPD and ASPD, as well as over the Brace profile, again. I am willing to concede that "a level of narcissism that rises to psychopathy" (NPD) is Casey's disorder, rather that ASPD. If the level of narcissism rises to psychopathy.. wouldn't that suggest that Casey might SEEM (at least superficially) similar to a psychopath until one digs deeper? This seems plausible, to me.

Something else I noticed -- please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I also seeing a positive correlation with Histrionic Personality Disorder on that profile of Casey?? If so, I think that is interesting in light of the fact that is what I think Cindy's disorder is.
 
Hi Russell! I read it and I think it's absolutely fascinating, but... I disagree. I think she has many characteristics consistent with Antisocial Personality Disorder. JMO!

Now, under the "Analysis" section, where it says "In light of the absence of any overall positive correlation with the characteristics of Antisocial Personality Disorder, this combination reveals a level of narcissism that rises to Psychopathy." -- that is possibly something I could get on board with.

BTW, where would someone get one of these BRACE profiles done on them? I think that would be pretty interesting! :)

Anyone with good critical thinking skills and a very high capacity to be objective and self-critical can do their own BRACE Character Profile ratings. Personally, I would suggest you get two or three friends, who know you quite well and are willing and able to objectively rate you, to develop a consensus set of input ratings. The input ratings are used to generate the charts and graphics for the analysis, which you can do yourself or in consultation with someone familiar with the BRACE Character Profile or a clinician. Free downloads are available online for the ratings process and the charts and graphics used for the analysis procedures. Just Google it.

Russell
 
Russell -- I read over the criteria for NPD and ASPD, as well as over the Brace profile, again. I am willing to concede that "a level of narcissism that rises to psychopathy" (NPD) is Casey's disorder, rather that ASPD. If the level of narcissism rises to psychopathy.. wouldn't that suggest that Casey might SEEM (at least superficially) similar to a psychopath until one digs deeper? This seems plausible, to me.

Something else I noticed -- please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I also seeing a positive correlation with Histrionic Personality Disorder on that profile of Casey?? If so, I think that is interesting in light of the fact that is what I think Cindy's disorder is.

Histrionic is definitely noteworthy.

In brief, casey is not a prototypical criminal, but she does have characteristics consistent with ... in rank order: 301.50 Histrionic Personality Disorder (r = +0.64), 301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder (r = +0.52), a prototypical 40-point Hare PCL-R (r = +0.44), 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder (r = +0.40), and traits of 299.80 Asperger's Disorder (r = +0.20). These characteristics overlap and combine to make up her nature.

Just my opinions,
Russell
 
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