Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[LCoastMom]

I think this applies, as far as dysfunctional parent/child households and the difficulty some have in breaking out of it.

I had a friend, some years ago. We were both in our late 30s and she had a 7 year old child. This friend and her sisters were sexually abused by their father during most of their childhood, up until they eventually came of age and left home, and, her mother was aware. She had terrible stories to tell, but, I won't share them here. You've all heard them.

Anyway, her parents asked for her to send her daughter to them to stay for a 2 week vacation. My friend was making plans to send her daughter to the grandparents for the visit, but, was feeling uncomfortable about it.

I guess I kind of lost my patience with her. I finally asked 'why would you send your child to spend 2 weeks with the man who abused you?! He will abuse your daughter! Have you lost your mind?!"

Her response was "I have to, he's my father"

My response to her was "your responsibilities as a mother far outweigh your responsibilities as a daughter"

She mulled this over and in the end decided to have her parents come to visit them for a week so she could supervise. Not an ideal outcome IMO (I would have told them to go to hell and they are never spending time with my child, but, that's just me).

Anyway, this dysfunction can be so ingrained that some cannot break free.

Sad...

This just gave me the chills! What power he held over your friend, apparently for some years after she moved out!

I just don't get it!? And I'm at a complete loss that she would even let these people (her parents!) within 500 yards of her own precious child! I would not have been able to sleep, knowing he was even in the same city!

Makes me wonder; if she had sent her to visit the grands, what would have happened when she came home and said she had been violated - we see this so often, nothing like handing your child over to a rapist!

Thank you, you undoubtedly saved this little child from becoming another victim.

 

[ynotdivein]

I know a family who has more diagnosed "issues" than we could count. Young mom is bi-polar (her mother is also bi-polar). Young mom had her first DD at 16, then had 2 more - #2 DD is one of the most beautiful children I have ever seen - her nick name was "Angel-Face" and it absolutely fit, some of the time. This little girl has another side to her and when she was "in a mood" she physically looked different - I can't explain it as I've never seen it in a child before, but it reminds me of the Chameleon quality in some psychopaths.

This lil girl put her 2 yr old baby sister on a swing, then climbed the swing-set and pulled the chain off the hook. The baby put her teeth all the way thru her lip and needed stitches. (The baby was often the victim of her sister's "moods".)

She came to my house and punched DH where it hurts most, when he answered the door - then tried to do it again, the next time she saw him.

For these acts her mother said she didn't know what she was doing (or didn't realize what she was doing would cause harm) - I had a little talk with her after the DH punching incident and asked her, "What if I go up to your daddy and punch him there?" She replied, "No! that would hurt!" She knew darn good and well what she was doing and I told her mother so!

At 5 years old, she was suspended from kindergarten until she had a psych eval after hitting, kicking or biting 3 other children, all in the first week of school. One of the children had the misfortune of being the first one in line when the bell rang, he got kicked in the shins. Another child was picked by the teacher to answer a question - he got a bite that drew blood. The child who got punched was just in the wrong place, at the wrong time. (Just like the first 2!)

The psychiatrist told her parents she has all the signs of a serial killer in the making. Mom continued to blame everyone but the child, all her acting out was because she had been hurt by others. DH hurt her feelings by telling her I wasn't home; so the punches were his own fault - to mom's way of thinking.

When this child is older and ends up in trouble with the law - is it her fault because she is a bad seed or her mother's for refusing to make her take responsibility from the beginning? Or is it a combination of genetics and living in a family that is very dysfunctional and in some ways similar to the Anthony's?

ICA didn't become bad at 18 or 22. She had to have had some issues along the way - Were the A's in denial all those years of many misdeeds, while ICA robbed them blind? Were they in denial when she sat around the house, or hung out with various boys, instead of going to work? IIRC GA checked up on her "job" at the sporting goods store and found out she had never worked there - did CA say; "I don't know who to believe?" Like she did when GA tried to tell her about ICA's lies, while ICA told her a different story?

This is the MOTY, who only disciplined her daughter in the most loving way imaginable, ICA yelling and cursing at her mother, on more than one occasion - is the best daughter any father could have. According to ICA her brother violated her - yet her MySpace pictures identified him as, "The greatest brother ever!"

Here we are 2 1/2 yrs into this - Casey and Family Psych Profile #10 we try and try to make sense, of a senseless situation! So many of us have shared the cracks in our own families - some situations, were potentially (or actually) so much worse than ICA's - not a baby killer among us!

LCM, :gthanks:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I know a family who has more diagnosed "issues" than we could count. Young mom is bi-polar (her mother is also bi-polar). Young mom had her first DD at 16, then had 2 more - #2 DD is one of the most beautiful children I have ever seen - her nick name was "Angel-Face" and it absolutely fit, some of the time. This little girl has another side to her and when she was "in a mood" she physically looked different - I can't explain it as I've never seen it in a child before, but it reminds me of the Chameleon quality in some psychopaths.

This lil girl put her 2 yr old baby sister on a swing, then climbed the swing-set and pulled the chain off the hook. The baby put her teeth all the way thru her lip and needed stitches. (The baby was often the victim of her sister's "moods".)

She came to my house and punched DH where it hurts most, when he answered the door - then tried to do it again, the next time she saw him.

For these acts her mother said she didn't know what she was doing (or didn't realize what she was doing would cause harm) - I had a little talk with her after the DH punching incident and asked her, "What if I go up to your daddy and punch him there?" She replied, "No! that would hurt!" She knew darn good and well what she was doing and I told her mother so!

At 5 years old, she was suspended from kindergarten until she had a psych eval after hitting, kicking or biting 3 other children, all in the first week of school. One of the children had the misfortune of being the first one in line when the bell rang, he got kicked in the shins. Another child was picked by the teacher to answer a question - he got a bite that drew blood. The child who got punched was just in the wrong place, at the wrong time. (Just like the first 2!)

The psychiatrist told her parents she has all the signs of a serial killer in the making. Mom continued to blame everyone but the child, all her acting out was because she had been hurt by others. DH hurt her feelings by telling her I wasn't home; so the punches were his own fault - to mom's way of thinking.

When this child is older and ends up in trouble with the law - is it her fault because she is a bad seed or her mother's for refusing to make her take responsibility from the beginning? Or is it a combination of genetics and living in a family that is very dysfunctional and in some ways similar to the Anthony's?

ICA didn't become bad at 18 or 22. She had to have had some issues along the way - Were the A's in denial all those years of many misdeeds, while ICA robbed them blind? Were they in denial when she sat around the house, or hung out with various boys, instead of going to work? IIRC GA checked up on her "job" at the sporting goods store and found out she had never worked there - did CA say; "I don't know who to believe?" Like she did when GA tried to tell her about ICA's lies, while ICA told her a different story?

This is the MOTY, who only disciplined her daughter in the most loving way imaginable, ICA yelling and cursing at her mother, on more than one occasion - is the best daughter any father could have. According to ICA her brother violated her - yet her MySpace pictures identified him as, "The greatest brother ever!"

Here we are 2 1/2 yrs into this - Casey and Family Psych Profile #10 we try and try to make sense, of a senseless situation! So many of us have shared the cracks in our own families - some situations, were potentially (or actually) so much worse than ICA's - not a baby killer among us!

Oh boy! That's like my sisters kid- she's just like that and my sister just says (in a sickly sweet, begging type tone of voice) "now Megan" but does notthing to stop it. She is 12 and my sister will still go lay in the bed with her if she won't go to sleep (like she's friggin' 3 or something- this child should know by now that when mom says it's bedtime, it's bedtime). she yells at adults and my sister gets mad at the adult if the adult dare stand up for themselves. She only eats 2 different types of food and nobody can tell her when it's time to eat. She has just recently learned that if her mother won't give her something or let her do something all she has to do is say she wants to die and my sister gives in. My sister told me the last time I saw her that she reminds her of me at that age and I said "Well, you better start doing something about it before it's too late (My pill addiction began at that very age)!" She couldn't see that there is anything that can be done- she doesn't see it could posssibly have anything to do with the way she is raising the child.. because she lives in denial. People think denial is their friend but it's really our worst enemy, our denial is our childrens worst enemy. It's very sad.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Or she didn't have to wear a dress that SCREAMED "I'm pregnant everybody!!" kwim?
moo:cow:

No kidding, it's like she wanted it to come out that day..

Were we ever made privy to why Rick disowned his own son? That would be KC's cousin. He wrote to CA about how he had made clear to (son) that what he had done was unacceptable and Rick disowned him at that time. What could be so bad as to be disowned by your father? I've remained curious about this as there's some extreme behavior here too. :waitasec:

We have here black/white examples of how to handle things with your wayward child; either ignore and accept with no consequences or totally disown. I wonder what Rick's son did that was so bad to warrant being disowned. Was he required to step up to the consequences of his actions or was he simply cast out to sea?

 

[logicalgirl]

Were we ever made privy to why Rick disowned his own son? That would be KC's cousin. He wrote to CA about how he had made clear to (son) that what he had done was unacceptable and Rick disowned him at that time. What could be so bad as to be disowned by your father? I've remained curious about this as there's some extreme behavior here too. :waitasec:

We have here black/white examples of how to handle things with your wayward child; either ignore and accept with no consequences or totally disown. I wonder what Rick's son did that was so bad to warrant being disowned. Was he required to step up to the consequences of his actions or was he simply cast out to sea?

Yes, curious also, now you have re-brought this to our attention - thanks. While much has been said about Cindy, I don't believe her actions are original but a symptom of more family dysfunction.

Jolynna made a comment up thread that has stuck with me as a :waitasec:. She said every almost every one in prison for a violent crime is from a dysfunctional family. So I asked myself that question backwards - if you have a child with personality disorders, is it possible to have a functional family? Maybe not - back to the chicken or the egg again, sigh.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Were we ever made privy to why Rick disowned his own son? That would be KC's cousin. He wrote to CA about how he had made clear to (son) that what he had done was unacceptable and Rick disowned him at that time. What could be so bad as to be disowned by your father? I've remained curious about this as there's some extreme behavior here too. :waitasec:

We have here black/white examples of how to handle things with your wayward child; either ignore and accept with no consequences or totally disown. I wonder what Rick's son did that was so bad to warrant being disowned. Was he required to step up to the consequences of his actions or was he simply cast out to sea?

Yeah, I hear ya. He was also a bit too happy to be able to talk crap to Cindy-like he has a grudge and has just been waiting for payback day. I don't like my sister but if something happened to her child I can't see lashing out like that. To me that's a time where everything else should be set aside, ya know? I wish we could talk to him!

 

[logicalgirl]

But Cindy sure thought it did. And Cindy is the one who told the whole world about it so it's not speculation. The fact that she did it at all, legally binding or not, clearly shows her mind-set.

Yes, but if you met someone who told you that, would you believe them or would you think/say - you *&^% fool - grandparents have no rights in my country or yours, who are you trying to kid besides yourself?

i mean, what a crock!! I can't give weight or value to something someone tells me that is complete rubbish.

 

[RR0004]

[/B][/U]

RR0004: This quote rather nicely sums up my entire career in forensic pathology! :rocker: Just change the "murdering a child" to committing ANY homicide and I'm sailing across the snow banks on a 60 MPH wind gust with you!:seeya:

It's funny you should say that...that's exactly where my thinking started.
And.......this weather b$tes the big one, doesn't it?

 

[logicalgirl]

It isn't small. It's huge and you should be proud that you overcame.

I gotta tell you OneLostGirl, it didn't feel like strength at 17, with a new baby, one year of university under my belt, no skills,no job, no parents, and the government eyeing me saying get married or we're taking that kid away from you.

What else can you do but put your face to the wind and start walking?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

great post.

Bold is mine-
Neither was Casey IMO. How easy it seems to be for Cindy to re-write Casey's life history to fit the niche she needs it to.

One thing that stands out to me as other peeps have discussed before, is that CA, GA and KC had not begun to expand Caylee's activities by enrolling her in a program involving other children or taking her to the community pool with another young friend, etc. She was still under three but they all seemed clueless that Caylee should begin to have a little life of her own outside of just what they felt like doing. At least have someone of the same age child over for a play date. I spent too many hours in Chucky Cheese, clipped coupons to make a visit there affordable, etc. because I knew my child should be around other young children, learn to take his turn, laugh among the other kids, etc. At first I enjoyed observing him delight in his activities at park like settings. Later, I layed aside the time it took for these kinds of activities and my germ phobes, because I knew it was good for him and he needed kid stuff to do. Did it never dawn on CA or KC that Caylee should be branching out too but needed them to provide the exposure?

This is further proof regarding the extension of thyself theories. Caylee was required to do what they wanted. They did provide a nice play yard for Caylee but never included other children for her to play with.

 

[drip~drop]

No kidding, it's like she wanted it to come out that day..

It was out alright. About 7 months out.
Even a 2yo would be able to tell she was pg. I see it all the time.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I gotta tell you OneLostGirl, it didn't feel like strength at 17, with a new baby, one year of university under my belt, no skills,no job, no parents, and the government eyeing me saying get married or we're taking that kid away from you.

What else can you do but put your face to the wind and start walking?

logicalgirl, I'm curious and hope you don't mind my asking, were any of those 13 foster parent/families a good example, kind and/or loving? Did you find they were only in it for the extra check? How come so many? That had to be very scary for you and I'm happy to know you have your head on straight. Also inspiring is the story about the girl who was raised by drug addicted parents, had no real parenting but made it to Yale. The human spirit is sometimes capable of defeating the odds. It would be great if someone could figure out why and how that is.

Do you feel the way you do because you've seen so many who didn't survive the 'system' yet you were able to?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, but if you met someone who told you that, would you believe them or would you think/say - you *&^% fool - grandparents have no rights in my country or yours, who are you trying to kid besides yourself?

i mean, what a crock!! I can't give weight or value to something someone tells me that is complete rubbish.

I don't believe her- no one with even only basic knowledge of family law would believe her. The point is she spits this stuff out- she's a LIAR and lies to make herself sound better (stronger even- she made it so caylee could never be taken from her is what she wants us to believe) about obvious things that people can easily discredit. Sound familar?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes, but if you met someone who told you that, would you believe them or would you think/say - you *&^% fool - grandparents have no rights in my country or yours, who are you trying to kid besides yourself?

i mean, what a crock!! I can't give weight or value to something someone tells me that is complete rubbish.

I wish someone had said to CA, 'what gave you the right to do that? Is that what KC wanted too or do you think Caylee would be happy to know that her bio had been cast out never knowing if he would have chosen to be in her life or not but wasn't because you said so?'

 

[OneLostGrl]

I gotta tell you OneLostGirl, it didn't feel like strength at 17, with a new baby, one year of university under my belt, no skills,no job, no parents, and the government eyeing me saying get married or we're taking that kid away from you.

What else can you do but put your face to the wind and start walking?

You are a better person then me because the thought (succeeding in life- making my own way, the right way) never even entered my mind until about 8 years ago... and I'm almost 40! I have come a long way but I still doubt myself.. I won't even sign up for school because I feel I will just screw it up, drop out- ruin it somehow. I fail- it's all I have ever done... logically I know I'm not that person anymore but it's a difficult thing to unlearn.

You are very strong.. carry that with pride!

 

[logicalgirl]

logicalgirl, I'm curious and hope you don't mind my asking, were any of those 13 foster parent/families a good example, kind and/or loving? Did you find they were only in it for the extra check? How come so many? That had to be very scary for you and I'm happy to know you have your head on straight. Also inspiring is the story about the girl who was raised by drug addicted parents, had no real parenting but made it to Yale. The human spirit is sometimes capable of defeating the odds. It would be great if someone could figure out why and how that is.

Do you feel the way you do because you've seen so many who didn't survive the 'system' yet you were able to?

One set was kind and loving - I was eight. They and I were heartbroken when they moved out of province for work and could not take me.

Here in BC most foster parents were people who wanted to adopt a baby, so we (as foster kids) were "testers" - here, look after this kid, see how you do while you are on the wait list, and look you get paid for it. I was a "good " kid, a "bookish good grades kid" with the threat of girls reformatory always a real threat in the background, and I never ran away because I already knew about "consequences". Mainly I moved because circumstances in the home changed, or families were transferred. or in two cases, I asked to be moved because of "stuff" going on in those homes (think "fathers"). I had one social worker who said "Why didn't you tell me about this sooner" - my answer was "you didn't ask." So that might give you some idea of how I knew I had to just grind out the time until I was "a grown-up."

It was definitely scary, I was always an outsider and invisible and alone. But since it had been "life" since I was just turned five, I didn't know any other way of being.

I don't have the answers to why I'm a survivor except I do know you have to keep your eye on your goal, no matter how bad it gets. And I didn't have a home of my own, so that is what I most wanted in this world - to provide for my girls; a home and be the person who loved them, always. I was a young parent, and knew nothing about parenting or love for that matter. Bonding and showing affection didn't come easily to me but I read, I watched and I learned. And my kids taught me so much also. Some decisions you never regret.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If I may OLG, take one little step at a time. Sign up for one class, your favorite subject, and go from there. You can do it! :seeya:

 

[OneLostGrl]

One thing that stands out to me as other peeps have discussed before, is that CA, GA and KC had not begun to expand Caylee's activities by enrolling her in a program involving other children or taking her to the community pool with another young friend, etc. She was still under three but they all seemed clueless that Caylee should begin to have a little life of her own outside of just what they felt like doing. At least have someone of the same age child over for a play date. I spent too many hours in Chucky Cheese, clipped coupons to make a visit there affordable, etc. because I knew my child should be around other young children, learn to take his turn, laugh among the other kids, etc. At first I enjoyed observing him delight in his activities at park like settings. Later, I layed aside the time it took for these kinds of activities and my germ phobes, because I knew it was good for him and he needed kid stuff to do. Did it never dawn on CA or KC that Caylee should be branching out too but needed them to provide the exposure?

This is further proof regarding the extension of thyself theories. Caylee was required to do what they wanted. They did provide a nice play yard for Caylee but never included other children for her to play with.

A family like this lives in a "us against the world" mind-set.. imo because of that it makes perfect sense that they didn't sign her up for anything.. she doesn't need anything besides them. WE are fully capable of teaching her everything she needs to know... what can she learn from anyone that WE can't teach her here, in our "loving home"? kwim?

 

[logicalgirl]

logicalgirl, I'm curious and hope you don't mind my asking, were any of those 13 foster parent/families a good example, kind and/or loving? Did you find they were only in it for the extra check? How come so many? That had to be very scary for you and I'm happy to know you have your head on straight. Also inspiring is the story about the girl who was raised by drug addicted parents, had no real parenting but made it to Yale. The human spirit is sometimes capable of defeating the odds. It would be great if someone could figure out why and how that is.

Do you feel the way you do because you've seen so many who didn't survive the 'system' yet you were able to?

Sorry I didn't answer that last question. I feel the way I do - and it may surprise you - because in a way I was lucky. Somehow I knew when I became an adult and free of being a government ward, (which is another way of saying perm foster kid, unavailable for adoption) what I would have is a choice. What I came from was part of me, the fabric of who I was, but I had a choice to build on that. That's the one thing I did know - I had a choice.

 

[drip~drop]

You are a better person then me because the thought (succeeding in life- making my own way, the right way) never even entered my mind until about 8 years ago... and I'm almost 40! I have come a long way but I still doubt myself.. I won't even sign up for school because I feel I will just screw it up, drop out- ruin it somehow. I fail- it's all I have ever done... logically I know I'm not that person anymore but it's a difficult thing to unlearn.

You are very strong.. carry that with pride!

I think you would be fine and maybe even appreciate the structure of it all.:blowkiss: