Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[OneLostGrl]

Hi Russell! I read it and I think it's absolutely fascinating, but... I disagree. I think she has many characteristics consistent with Antisocial Personality Disorder. JMO!

Now, under the "Analysis" section, where it says "In light of the absence of any overall positive correlation with the characteristics of Antisocial Personality Disorder, this combination reveals a level of narcissism that rises to Psychopathy." -- that is possibly something I could get on board with.

BTW, where would someone get one of these BRACE profiles done on them? I think that would be pretty interesting!

We had starting doing one on another crime here but there was no one very interested and people expresed doubt that it could be accurate so it bombed. Which sucks because I reealllyy wanted to do one on this person. I am like you.. I have this need to know what makes people tick.. why we make the choices we do. There is almost always a reason, a history of something not "right", "red flags" people missed etc. Because we search for a reason doesn't mean we are looking for an excuse. There is no excuse!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hello everyone... just got done reading thru the whole thread *shew*.

It seems to me when anyone expresses a belief that the Anthony family dynamic had anything to do with how Casey turned out, or Caylee's murder, there are some that automatically think you are 'making excuses' for Casey's behaviour, or implying that you don't think Casey should be punished, etc. So, let me get these things straight before I comment on what I believe the psychological makeup of this family to be.

1) I don't think there is any excuse for Casey's behaviour. I don't think there is any excuse for Casey murdering her daughter. I do NOT blame anyone but Casey for what happened.

2) Being as that I believe Casey murdered her child, I think she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

With that said, I will tell you that I am the type of person who loves to figure out what makes people tick and I'm highly interested in abnormal psych/personality disorders/mood disorders, and personality typology. When someone says "who cares WHY someone did what they did?".... I must disagree whole-heartedly, because I love to learn and try to figure out the "why's". To some, that might seem like a waste of time... but it is not to me. I have also seen a tendency for some people to misconstrue what some of us mean when we say we are trying to 'understand'. When I say I am trying to 'understand' Casey and why she murdered her precious little girl, I am saying that I'm trying to figure out what makes her tick, what disorders she might have (if any), and possibly get some insight on what creates a child-murderer. I am NOT saying that I am trying to 'BE understanding' of Casey as in 'poor Casey she had all these problems, it's not her fault, she couldn't help it', etc. In any case, I hope I have made the distinctions clear. With all that out of the way, here are my OPINIONS on the psychology of the Anthonys:

Cindy -- I think Cindy has Histrionic Personality Disorder, as described by the DSM. After going over everything that is available, thanks to the sunshine law in Florida, I see nothing that leads me to believe that Cindy is Borderline, a Psychopath/ASPD, or Bipolar. In my opinion, HPD covers pretty much everything about her bizarre behaviours. I also think Cindy may have NPD as well, but I'm not as sure about that one.

Casey - This one will be short and sweet -- I think Casey fits under "Antisocial Personality Disorder" quite well. Some professionals differentiate between ASPD and Psychopath/Sociopath, and some do not. I think ASPD fits Casey according to the criteria set forth by the DSM.

George -- I don't think George has any sort of major psychological disorder. I think he's lazy; I think he'd rather live off someone else than work to make his own money; I think he's weak and a pushover... but I don't think he's mentally disordered in any way. If I HAD to choose something for George, I'd say Dependent Personality Disorder.

Lee - Lee is eccentric, no doubt. But does he have some sort of mental disorder? I don't think so. I believe he might have a bit of anxiety that causes him to laugh at very inappropriate times and he has a completely misguided loyalty to his murderous sister (IMO), but I don't think there are any major psychological issues with him.

Now, the question of nature vs nurture when it comes to Casey... I think it's a little of both. I think people may be born with a tendency to ASPD (or some other disorder; I'm just using ASPD as an example because I think that is what fits Casey), but that it can be aggravated and maximised or minimised and blunted (for lack of a better word). Not all of those that are dx'd ASPD or even psychopathic are murderers. It is my belief that IF Casey had been forced to face consequences and punishments, and not constantly let off the hook by Cindy -- this murder MAY have not happened. I think that Casey would STILL have had issues... perhaps she would have still been a thief, a liar, and sexually promiscuous, BUT... maybe, just maybe... she would not have turned out to be a murderess. Do I blame Cindy for Caylee's murder? NO. Casey killed her daughter. But, as I've mentioned before, I think there is value in trying to ascertain WHY people do what the do, make the decisions they do, etc.

So those are my ideas, take'em or leave'em. When it comes to abnormal psych, I have read a lot, studied a lot, and researched a lot (psych was my major in college) BUT... I am NOT a professional, and these are only my humble opinions. Thanks for reading!

Great post! It's nice to meet another who searches for reasons without using them as excuses. There is a reason people act the way they do- our environment has a huge impact on who we become so it MUST be looked at when trying to understand these types of crimes.

I don't think Casey is a Psychopath (currently clumped with ASPD in the DSM). I think she has some psychopathic (aspd) traits but I also think she has some borderline traits and some narcissistic traits . I think her issues are comorbid and can't be pinned down to one DX.

Now Cindy, to me, has huge borderline and narcissistic traits but IMO her biggest problem IMO is her codependancy... It has shaped that entire family.

ITA about George though he seems to have some borderline traits but that's probably due to his wifes Codependence. George needs a mommy, someone to take care of him, he is an irresponsible, attention seeking liar. He and Cindy are perfect for one another- she needs to take care of people he needs to be taken care of.

I have my thoughts on Lee but I'm not gonna go there..

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hello everyone... just got done reading thru the whole thread *shew*.

It seems to me when anyone expresses a belief that the Anthony family dynamic had anything to do with how Casey turned out, or Caylee's murder, there are some that automatically think you are 'making excuses' for Casey's behaviour, or implying that you don't think Casey should be punished, etc. So, let me get these things straight before I comment on what I believe the psychological makeup of this family to be.

1) I don't think there is any excuse for Casey's behaviour. I don't think there is any excuse for Casey murdering her daughter. I do NOT blame anyone but Casey for what happened.

2) Being as that I believe Casey murdered her child, I think she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

With that said, I will tell you that I am the type of person who loves to figure out what makes people tick and I'm highly interested in abnormal psych/personality disorders/mood disorders, and personality typology. When someone says "who cares WHY someone did what they did?".... I must disagree whole-heartedly, because I love to learn and try to figure out the "why's". To some, that might seem like a waste of time... but it is not to me. I have also seen a tendency for some people to misconstrue what some of us mean when we say we are trying to 'understand'. When I say I am trying to 'understand' Casey and why she murdered her precious little girl, I am saying that I'm trying to figure out what makes her tick, what disorders she might have (if any), and possibly get some insight on what creates a child-murderer. I am NOT saying that I am trying to 'BE understanding' of Casey as in 'poor Casey she had all these problems, it's not her fault, she couldn't help it', etc. In any case, I hope I have made the distinctions clear. With all that out of the way, here are my OPINIONS on the psychology of the Anthonys:

Cindy -- I think Cindy has Histrionic Personality Disorder, as described by the DSM. After going over everything that is available, thanks to the sunshine law in Florida, I see nothing that leads me to believe that Cindy is Borderline, a Psychopath/ASPD, or Bipolar. In my opinion, HPD covers pretty much everything about her bizarre behaviours. I also think Cindy may have NPD as well, but I'm not as sure about that one.

Casey - This one will be short and sweet -- I think Casey fits under "Antisocial Personality Disorder" quite well. Some professionals differentiate between ASPD and Psychopath/Sociopath, and some do not. I think ASPD fits Casey according to the criteria set forth by the DSM.

George -- I don't think George has any sort of major psychological disorder. I think he's lazy; I think he'd rather live off someone else than work to make his own money; I think he's weak and a pushover... but I don't think he's mentally disordered in any way. If I HAD to choose something for George, I'd say Dependent Personality Disorder.

Lee - Lee is eccentric, no doubt. But does he have some sort of mental disorder? I don't think so. I believe he might have a bit of anxiety that causes him to laugh at very inappropriate times and he has a completely misguided loyalty to his murderous sister (IMO), but I don't think there are any major psychological issues with him.

Now, the question of nature vs nurture when it comes to Casey... I think it's a little of both. I think people may be born with a tendency to ASPD (or some other disorder; I'm just using ASPD as an example because I think that is what fits Casey), but that it can be aggravated and maximised or minimised and blunted (for lack of a better word). Not all of those that are dx'd ASPD or even psychopathic are murderers. It is my belief that IF Casey had been forced to face consequences and punishments, and not constantly let off the hook by Cindy -- this murder MAY have not happened. I think that Casey would STILL have had issues... perhaps she would have still been a thief, a liar, and sexually promiscuous, BUT... maybe, just maybe... she would not have turned out to be a murderess. Do I blame Cindy for Caylee's murder? NO. Casey killed her daughter. But, as I've mentioned before, I think there is value in trying to ascertain WHY people do what the do, make the decisions they do, etc.

So those are my ideas, take'em or leave'em. When it comes to abnormal psych, I have read a lot, studied a lot, and researched a lot (psych was my major in college) BUT... I am NOT a professional, and these are only my humble opinions. Thanks for reading!

Hi crucibelle and Welcome to the thread and to WS. I have not yet read ahead on the thread but want to ask/comment about something before it leaves my head.

Regarding anti-social/psychopathy. Here's where I get lost - you know how KC was undependable (KC continually bailed on Amy for instance) and KC was a shameless liar (to be honest I think I would have had her number after two months or so). She demonstrated an attitude that she cared more about herself and fulfilling her own needs than standing behind her word to a friend or following through on a promise. That could fall under narcissism and/or plain old selfishness. KC seemed to fly by the seat of her pants and do little planning ahead. She operated in a made up world and, amazingly, nobody questioned her about her wonderful setup (nanny, never had to physically be at work, worked short hours for making enough to pay a nanny all the time, etc.) Name a young person who has all that. My take on a sociopath is a person who goes about their business with their bad doings in mind. Like the craigslist killer guy who paraded as one person but had this evil/dark other life that he set people up to fulfill his need of whatever that is (beyond my comprehension). But he is intelligent.

The sociopaths seem to strangely have a high intellect. I don't see that in KC. She's a seasoned liar but doesn't seem to have a plan (we'll see if the computer forensics prove otherwise). Maybe she is one and this was just the first real serious plot she planned to fulfill to get what she wanted, her freedom - not too smart.

What I'm trying to say is that sociopaths seem to appear seemlessly regular until they get found out. KC doesn't seem to me to be 'regular'. She tried to please those she wanted to please so she did develop a level of charm that is characteristic of people who fool other people, she was a user but so are a lot of people in one way or another. I'm still not sure she fits sociopath though. I'm not able to accurately convey my point I don't think. What am I missing?

I guess I still don't get the difference between a Narcissist and a Sociopath. If a narcissist killed someone accidently would they hide it yet still have a conscious about what they had done? A sociopath has no conscious I guess and think they should not have to answer to anybody else for their actions. I guess that sounds like KC and CA and GA. :waitasec:

 

[Capri]

Great post! It's nice to meet another who searches for reasons without using them as excuses. There is a reason people act the way they do- our environment has a huge impact on who we become so it MUST be looked at when trying to understand these types of crimes.

I don't think Casey is a Psychopath (currently clumped with ASPD in the DSM). I think she has some psychopathic (aspd) traits but I also think she has some borderline traits and some narcissistic traits . I think her issues are comorbid and can't be pinned down to one DX.

Now Cindy, to me, has huge borderline and narcissistic traits but IMO her biggest problem IMO is her codependancy... It has shaped that entire family.

ITA about George though he seems to have some borderline traits but that's probably due to his wifes Codependence. George needs a mommy, someone to take care of him, he is an irresponsible, attention seeking liar. He and Cindy are perfect for one another- she needs to take care of people he needs to be taken care of.

I have my thoughts on Lee but I'm not gonna go there..

BBM. Oh c'mon OLG, go there. I love to hear your take on them all!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

We had starting doing one on another crime here but there was no one very interested and people expresed doubt that it could be accurate so it bombed. Which sucks because I reealllyy wanted to do one on this person. I am like you.. I have this need to know what makes people tick.. why we make the choices we do. There is almost always a reason, a history of something not "right", "red flags" people missed etc. Because we search for a reason doesn't mean we are looking for an excuse. There is no excuse!

I think it bombed because we didn't know the subject well enough and possibly (me) were afraid to get to know him better even if we could. IMO it would be hard to answer the questions accurately on someone unless you have personal experience with them.

Once, a long time ago, I filled out a test like that about myself (not sure what it was called) and the guy who deciphered it told me I wanted to rub shoulders with the people at the top - ha! I thought what the heck does that mean? I couldn't tell if it was a criticism or not. Instead of asking him if that had a deeper meaning, I left thinking 'I guess I'm a snob". I've often wondered about what he was really trying to convey as if it would be wrong to reach for the stars so-to-speak. Anyway, I guess if that was the worst thing revealed it was not too bad but I don't recall him sharing anything else with me about what the test revealed. Maybe I can still find that paper in a file somewhere or do I dare? :crazy:

 

[Pattymarie]

I know what KC did was heinous, but her mother should be charged as an accomplice. I think she is as guilty for Caylee losing her life as her daughter. How did she not notice that she hadn't seen her granddaughter, whom she provides and cares for and who lives with her... for over a month? It is unfathomable.

She knew KC was lying, stealing and did not have a job. She never met the fake nanny. Even tho KC was the mom, Cindy was in charge. KC was still a dependent in that household. I am not excusing KC, I just think Cindy has culpability here.

 

[txsvicki]

Casey is definitely a psychopath (narcissism in the extreme), and it probably wasn't that noticeable til she got a little older and gave birth to Caylee. The only other one that has something very wrong IMO is George with narcissistict traits. Everything is all about him, he's volatile, jealous, grandiose, manipulative, and scapegoats others. Cindy is the family scapegoat and has probably been gaslighted many times by GA and Casey. Lee has been blamed a lot, too. I don't think they made Casey the way she is though. Any flaws in their personalities are so magnified with all the media focus. They would never have hurt Caylee and would have done something if they thought Casey was violent or planning murder. Cindy was planning to get custody and take steps about Casey, and it led to murder just like psychopath men do when their wives or girlfriends try to leave them or when they're caught in all their lies.

 

[crucibelle]

Hello again, everyone! I really appreciate the responses and I will reply to you individually, as soon as I get a bit more time to put some thought into my responses.

Real quick though, I have a question for Russel -- Have you heard about the proposed changes to the DSM? Apparently it has been proposed that the current 10 personality disorders be cut down to five. NPD will be one of those removed, and from what I understand, those traits/markers will be merged under the heading "Psychopathic/Antisocial Personality Disorder". If that is the case, and these proposed changes to the DSM are approved, the question of whether KC is a psychopath/ASPD or NPD will be moot.

I am working on some personality-typology stuff with a particular classification system and I'm pretty sure I have Cindy and KC pegged, but I'm having an awful lot of trouble with George, at the moment. I will post all that up and get back to replies when I have more time. Thanks for reading, everyone!

eta: OLG I would LOVE to read your thoughts on Lee. I will admit, he confuses the h*ll out of me... would love to see your insights on his personality.. thanks!

 

[ZsaZsa]

I know what KC did was heinous, but her mother should be charged as an accomplice. I think she is as guilty for Caylee losing her life as her daughter. How did she not notice that she hadn't seen her granddaughter, whom she provides and cares for and who lives with her... for over a month? It is unfathomable.

She knew KC was lying, stealing and did not have a job. She never met the fake nanny. Even tho KC was the mom, Cindy was in charge. KC was still a dependent in that household. I am not excusing KC, I just think Cindy has culpability here.

Oh but she did notice- she announced on MySpace on July 3rd 2008 that Caylee was missing, and suggested reasons why - Casey's jealousy for one..

 

[drip~drop]

OneLostGirl, you must come share your view on LA. PWEEZE!!!!

All I can say about him is he totally creeps me out and gives me the willies. ugggh.
:cow: moo imo

 

[seeing_eye]

OneLostGirl, you must come share your view on LA. PWEEZE!!!!

All I can say about him is he totally creeps me out and gives me the willies. ugggh.
:cow: moo imo

He creeps me out and gives me the willies too. Does anybody have an idea of the reason for these feelings? (I sure can't explain it.)

 

[Knot4u2no]

Hello again, everyone! I really appreciate the responses and I will reply to you individually, as soon as I get a bit more time to put some thought into my responses.

Real quick though, I have a question for Russel -- Have you heard about the proposed changes to the DSM? Apparently it has been proposed that the current 10 personality disorders be cut down to five. NPD will be one of those removed, and from what I understand, those traits/markers will be merged under the heading "Psychopathic/Antisocial Personality Disorder". If that is the case, and these proposed changes to the DSM are approved, the question of whether KC is a psychopath/ASPD or NPD will be moot.

I am working on some personality-typology stuff with a particular classification system and I'm pretty sure I have Cindy and KC pegged, but I'm having an awful lot of trouble with George, at the moment. I will post all that up and get back to replies when I have more time. Thanks for reading, everyone!

eta: OLG I would LOVE to read your thoughts on Lee. I will admit, he confuses the h*ll out of me... would love to see your insights on his personality.. thanks!

Personally, I don’t put much stock in DSM, particularly related to Personality Disorders. That’s why I wrote SOLOMON’S CRIME PREVENTION PACKAGE: Character Development (subtitle) Criminal Thinking and Criminal Conduct.

This is a link to a free PDF download of same:

http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/solomons-crime-prevention-package-character-development/212094

Russell

 

[Woe.be.gone]

:twocents: about the DSM labels.

Regarding the terms Psychopathic, Narcissistic and Anti-social. The common person thinks someone who is psycho is, well, psycho (crazy, delusional, dangerous, capable of harming others, criminal, bad). A narcissist is someone who is stuck on themself, looks in the mirror all the time and cares to fulfill his or her own needs but doesn't intentionally strive to hurt other people; more of an extreme selfishness that makes the person annoying to deal with. Anti-social sounds like someone who doesn't like to socialize, a loner. I think these definitions are what the common person thinks of when they hear these terms.

When one tries to understand the DSM definitions it gets confusing. We don't automatically think of someone who is narcissistic as being criminal but it sounds like, if one is, there is a higher propensity for them to engage in bad acts. My bil has a mental disease and it would be possible for him to act/seem 'psycho' but because he takes his meds and has accepted his disease, you would not automatically know it. That said, his core self does not want to be 'psycho' but without meds, he could appear to others to be so. But he's not psycho like in the movie. The disease can cause some people to become truly 'psycho'.

I'm still confused about anti-social. What exactly does that mean? Because sociopaths can be/act very socially versed - say and do the right things at the right time, sometimes flawlessly. Is it a broad way of saying that these people don't think the laws/rules apply to them? It has nothing to do with if they like to be around other people or not. They need other people to do their dirty work or to fulfill some wayward/icky needs they have. When a common person says 'oh, he's anti-social' they mean he's shy or doesn't like to talk much or prefers to keep to himself. That isn't the DSM meaning.

Also, how'd they come up with borderline? What exactly does that mean? One of many moods, unpredictable, basically normal but not? And what is 'normal'? LOL!

 

[affinity]

Hello again, everyone! I really appreciate the responses and I will reply to you individually, as soon as I get a bit more time to put some thought into my responses.

Real quick though, I have a question for Russel -- Have you heard about the proposed changes to the DSM? Apparently it has been proposed that the current 10 personality disorders be cut down to five. NPD will be one of those removed, and from what I understand, those traits/markers will be merged under the heading "Psychopathic/Antisocial Personality Disorder". If that is the case, and these proposed changes to the DSM are approved, the question of whether KC is a psychopath/ASPD or NPD will be moot.

I am working on some personality-typology stuff with a particular classification system and I'm pretty sure I have Cindy and KC pegged, but I'm having an awful lot of trouble with George, at the moment. I will post all that up and get back to replies when I have more time. Thanks for reading, everyone!

eta: OLG I would LOVE to read your thoughts on Lee. I will admit, he confuses the h*ll out of me... would love to see your insights on his personality.. thanks!

Crucibelle, great posts! I am grateful that you spent so much time crafting your post about the desire to analyze the personality disorders in the Anthony family. It has been irksome to throw out an idea and have the dialog come to a screeching halt with something like "lots of people have problems and they don't kill their children!" (I agree---but I STILL want to know WHAT brought Casey to become so beyond the pale out there and why she murdered Caylee). I'll never agree that she is "simply evil"...she is a product of her original family and environment.

For my money George is passive aggressive to the extreme. He also shows plenty of narcissistic tendencies. (That diamond in his ear...that he got "for" Casey! What?)

The entire family seems to have watched a great deal of film/tv entertainment and they have been completely shaped by entertainment culture. They ALL fell into "parts" as if in an espionage film almost immediately. (I could not agree with you more about Cindy's "Histrionics" pathology).

The way all the Anthonys handled everything from the very beginning smacks of over-identification with dramatic theater. They are like the movie "Being There" where the protagonist (Peter Sellers) pretends that his life is what he has been exposed to on television and movies...Sellers is so far "gone" he is not able to make the distinction of what is his real life and what is conjured from the variety of programs that he has seen. (.....seems familiar, doesn't it?)

 

[Knot4u2no]

:twocents: about the DSM labels.

Regarding the terms Psychopathic, Narcissistic and Anti-social. The common person thinks someone who is psycho is, well, psycho (crazy, delusional, dangerous, capable of harming others, criminal, bad). A narcissist is someone who is stuck on themself, looks in the mirror all the time and cares to fulfill his or her own needs but doesn't intentionally strive to hurt other people; more of an extreme selfishness that makes the person annoying to deal with. Anti-social sounds like someone who doesn't like to socialize, a loner. I think these definitions are what the common person thinks of when they hear these terms.

When one tries to understand the DSM definitions it gets confusing. We don't automatically think of someone who is narcissistic as being criminal but it sounds like, if one is, there is a higher propensity for them to engage in bad acts. My bil has a mental disease and it would be possible for him to act/seem 'psycho' but because he takes his meds and has accepted his disease, you would not automatically know it. That said, his core self does not want to be 'psycho' but without meds, he could appear to others to be so. But he's not psycho like in the movie. The disease can cause some people to become truly 'psycho'.

I'm still confused about anti-social. What exactly does that mean? Because sociopaths can be/act very socially versed - say and do the right things at the right time, sometimes flawlessly. Is it a broad way of saying that these people don't think the laws/rules apply to them? It has nothing to do with if they like to be around other people or not. They need other people to do their dirty work or to fulfill some wayward/icky needs they have. When a common person says 'oh, he's anti-social' they mean he's shy or doesn't like to talk much or prefers to keep to himself. That isn't the DSM meaning.

Also, how'd they come up with borderline? What exactly does that mean? One of many moods, unpredictable, basically normal but not? And what is 'normal'? LOL!

One of the reasons for confusion is that the DSM (DSM-IV™ is the abbreviation for the American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 1994 ... note the Personality Disorders presented in DSM-IV and the updated 2000 DSM-IV-TR are the same) is that many different types of individuals meet the diagnostic criteria and the criteria overlap.

For example, in addition to other diagnostic considerations, the DSM-IV-TR™ Antisocial Personality Disorder is characterized by “A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults,
5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another”

Excerpts from my blog #4: Note that there are 35 different ways to select three out of seven diagnostic criteria, 35 different ways to select four out of seven, 21 different ways to select five out of seven, seven different ways to select six out of seven, and one way to select seven out of seven – theoretically, a total of 99 different “types” of individuals that fall within the DSM-IV-TR™ diagnostic category of Antisocial Personality Disorder (301.7). Only one of these 99 would actually meet all seven diagnostic criteria.

Consequently, only a proportion of individuals assessed as meeting criteria for a diagnosis of Antisocial Personality Disorder would meet all 7 criteria. It is similar to a maximum score of 40 on a HARE PCL-R (Hare, R.D. 1991 The Psychopathy Checklist-Revised. Toronto, Canada: Multi-Health Systems) ... few achieve the maximum score of 40, but any combination (20 items scored as 0, 1, or2) of points may be used to reach a minimum score to be “diagnosed” as a psychopath (generally 30 or above). In other words, DSM-IV-TR™ Personality Disorders are not equal in terms of the types of information used as diagnostic criteria, nor are they equal in terms of the number of available criteria that must be met in order for a diagnosis to be made, nor are they equal in terms of the number and types of other qualifiers which must be taken into consideration in order to make a diagnosis. DSM-IV-TR™ is a categorical classification, but all members of a diagnostic class are not homogeneous, class boundaries are not clear, and there is significant overlap between “classifications” – i.e., the Personality Disorders, including Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My point is that each DSM Personality Disorder and HARE PCL-R Psychopaths consists of individuals who differ in many significant ways.

Just my personal opinions,
Russell

 

[Leila]

I think Casey exhibits many of the traits of a psychopath. Certainly the traits as listed in the post above by Knot4u2no fit what we know about Casey. Her lying, thefts, conning others, failure to plan ahead, irritability/aggressiveness, irresponsibility, and lack of remorse, are all encompassed in these traits.

Casey is certainly narcissistic in that she cares only for herself with no regard for others, not even her family. She seems to think in terms of what her family can do for her and when they're no longer useful she discards them.

Cindy seems to display many different traits that could fit into several disorders...................

She's compulsive in that she keeps her house immaculate - beyond what is expected in normal daily living.

She's paranoid, as evidenced by her suspicions that law enforcement was not working to find Caylee and solve this case and thought they had other motives. She made them adversaries almost immediately. Most people wouldn't consider LE the enemy when a crime has been committed.

She's anti-social to the point of almost being a recluse. She doesn't seem to have any friends, nor even a close relationship with any of the neighbors. The Anthonys have lived in that same neighborhood since 1989 and I think it's very unusual not to have developed any relationships with the neighbors.

In the beginning of the case a local news channel had a webcam on the Anthony home and we never saw any neighbors coming to the home. When a tragedy happens, it's normal that neighbors will bring a casserole or some other food to a grieving family. But in this case we saw none of that. With the exception of George's mother and sister, who were at the Anthony home for a few days in the very beginning, we haven't seen any other extended family. To Cindy's credit, she does seem to have one friend who accompanies her to court, but I don't know if that's a long-term friend, or someone she's gotten to know since this case began.

She narcissistic in that she seems to care only about herself and what she wants.

She has a need to be in control of each of her family members and everything around her. No decent is allowed. It's Cindy's way or else. We've seen that George is afraid of her and Lee doesn't want to do anything that would upset her.

As for George, I don't see where he has any sort of personality disorder. He lazy and seems to be a grifter, who doesn't have much in the way of personal incentives. He'd prefer living off the income of his wife than to get a good job and stick with it to provide for his family. If he has any personal opinions that don't conform to Cindy's, he won't express them for fear of Cindy's wraith.

As for Lee...........I initially thought he might be handicapped, a person who went through school in special education classes. He seems immature for his chronological age. As this case progressed and we saw and heard more from him, I think he's got some anger issues and I think he shares his father's lack of incentive. Why didn't he attend a trade or tech school and get a good job?

One thing I have noted is that all four members of the Anthony family seem to lack common sense, and none of them are too smart, IQ wise. They've each made statements that no one with any sort of critical thinking skills would make. Example: Cindy saying that someone could have put a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car after it had been towed to the impound yard. Or, attributing the odor in Casey's car to rotten pizza, especially after it was known there was no pizza, only an empty box. Anyone who had any sort of critical thinking skills wouldn't have made such illogical statements.

I don't believe that having a personality disorder excuses the act of murder, or any sort of violence. But, I find it interesting to try to figure out what dynamics within the family may have contributed to Casey's becoming the person she became.

 

[crucibelle]

Personally, I don’t put much stock in DSM, particularly related to Personality Disorders. That’s why I wrote SOLOMON’S CRIME PREVENTION PACKAGE: Character Development (subtitle) Criminal Thinking and Criminal Conduct.

This is a link to a free PDF download of same:

http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/solomons-crime-prevention-package-character-development/212094

Russell

Oohh.. thank you so much, Russell!! I can't wait to read it!

 

[Knot4u2no]

Oohh.. thank you so much, Russell!! I can't wait to read it!

Just FYI, this was a handout at a national psychological conferene, way back when. And, this was an approved handout for Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Athiests in multiple voluntary psycho-educitaional prison program, targeting various sub-populations within prison.

Russell

 

[crucibelle]

Crucibelle, great posts! I am grateful that you spent so much time crafting your post about the desire to analyze the personality disorders in the Anthony family. It has been irksome to throw out an idea and have the dialog come to a screeching halt with something like "lots of people have problems and they don't kill their children!" (I agree---but I STILL want to know WHAT brought Casey to become so beyond the pale out there and why she murdered Caylee). I'll never agree that she is "simply evil"...she is a product of her original family and environment.

For my money George is passive aggressive to the extreme. He also shows plenty of narcissistic tendencies. (That diamond in his ear...that he got "for" Casey! What?)

The entire family seems to have watched a great deal of film/tv entertainment and they have been completely shaped by entertainment culture. They ALL fell into "parts" as if in an espionage film almost immediately. (I could not agree with you more about Cindy's "Histrionics" pathology).

The way all the Anthonys handled everything from the very beginning smacks of over-identification with dramatic theater. They are like the movie "Being There" where the protagonist (Peter Sellers) pretends that his life is what he has been exposed to on television and movies...Sellers is so far "gone" he is not able to make the distinction of what is his real life and what is conjured from the variety of programs that he has seen. (.....seems familiar, doesn't it?)

affinity -- thank you so much! I think some people may be uncomfortable with us trying to psycho-analyze the Anthony family because they think we may be "making excuses" or trying to justify KC's or the Anthony family's actions. I can't speak for everyone, but I do believe that is not the purpose for most of us. We just want to figure out the inner psychological workings of this family, period.

I agree that George is passive aggressive and I do see some narcissistic traits as well. Even knowing that, I am having trouble with the system of personality typology I am using (which I will post later). There are different categories, of course, and I'm having trouble placing George. I think I'll just make a stab at it, though, and see what all of you think.

What you mentioned about the Anthony family over-identifying with dramatic theatre and film/tv culture is a BRILLIANT observation. You know, I didn't even think about that, but you are so right! This gives me more to ponder, so thank you for sharing!

This family is THE most bizarre family I think I have ever come across. To me, this makes them an excellent case study. It's a grand opportunity, IMO. That said, I have NOT forgotten the most important person in all of this -- Caylee. And as I said earlier, I do believe her mother killed her, and should be punished to the full extent of the law. I also think KC's parents should face some sort of charges for obstruction (Lee, too), but the lawyers in the lawyer thread are saying they don't think that will happen. Time will tell, I suppose.

I love hearing other people's opinions on the psychological make-up of this family, even if those opinions are opposed to mine. It gives me much more to think about and consider, and I appreciate it very much! I'm also very grateful for our Professional that we have on this thread -- Russell. And, I have the utmost respect for his thoughts and the tools he has written. Thank you all!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Just FYI, this was a handout at a national psychological conferene, way back when. And, this was an approved handout for Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Athiests in multiple voluntary psycho-educitaional prison program, targeting various sub-populations within prison.

Russell

Did you cite any sources? I can't find any kind of a reference page. It doesn't seem to be evidence based. I have to say I don't agree with much in the handout. It's not strengths based or culturally inclusive...I don't mean to offend you but I don't think the DSM is in any way a bad thing or a tool to funnel money to anyone. It can certainly be misused, as many people are doing on this thread, but it is a valuable if not essential tool imo.