Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Have I missed some evidence or information here? Do we have information stating Cindy has beaten ICA? I understand we have the "choking" incident on Father's Day, but to my understanding, that is a rumor yet to be verified.
Beatings?

Nope, you haven't missed any evidence or info on that. My bad for not prefacing my comments. My post, after the first para was specifically about the mitigation specialist J Barrett and her findings and my thoughts on what family members and friends might say. I didn't say beatings, I said abuse. Physical beatings was in my earlier post and again I said it was in my humble opinion they occurred. No evidence has been presented to the media this occurred.

And dang if I didn't forget about the alleged choking incident. I will try better in future posts to eliminate confusion for the reader. I sometimes forget newbies are reading or that we have had these discussions long ago. :blushing:

My point was to stress that people should be more forthcoming with their observations of the As family history to J Barrett because Caylee was murdered. They might not have if only a charge of neglect was filed and Caylee was still alive.
 
Diane Downs is the closet example of sociopathy to ICA that I have seen. Just watch the clips and see the striking similarities to ICA-the innappropriate smiles, the narcissism, the eyes!! It's absolutely eerie!! IMO
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0WHWUgigN8[/ame]
This psychiatrist could be describing ICA!!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6bTpzfC6mg[/ame]
 
Diane Downs is the closet example of sociopathy to ICA that I have seen. Just watch the clips and see the striking similarities to ICA-the innappropriate smiles, the narcissism, the eyes!! It's absolutely eerie!! IMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0WHWUgigN8
This psychiatrist could be describing ICA!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6bTpzfC6mg

Thank you for posting this essies - and yes, I agree, sociopaths (psychopaths) are in a class of their own. To really understand them - and is that possible for us with "normal" neurosis, is to me to be forever thinking - WTH? And then I have to remind myself they didn't "get" this way, they were born this way and there is no cure.
 
I think KC was engaged also. She felt she needed Cindy (yet resented it). She was unable to sustain employment, go to college, become independent. Instead of Cindy helping her navigate those things to become independent, she sabotaged her by allowing her to lie about having a job, gave her money, bought all of Caylee's clothes, toys (in abundance) and provided medical, food, etc. The 'toying' with Cindy came from the resentment, but she was emotionally and physically co-dependent on Cindy for her survival, and Caylee's, before the resentment and entrapment became unbearable. Her only option out in her mind, was to find a husband to take Cindy's place. She could not provide for Caylee or herself.

I do believe ICA always had freedom of choice, and she chose to have Cindy provide for her and Caylee. And what Cindy didn't provide, ICA stole from her. Yes, I think ICA was engaged with Cindy, if you can call a cat taunting a spider "engaged". IMO

It all goes back to the behavior and "feelings" of a sociopath or psychopath. They do not have the capacity to think or feel like you or I do - so they use, or take, and will express what passes for emotion only if it fits their agenda.
 
Well, thanks everyone, this has been very interesting to hear everyone's view point and as you can also see - I have a far left of centre belief system regarding at least Cindy and ICA.

It sure isn't my intention to derail the ongoing conversation so :blowkiss:

Uncle. Peace. Out.
 
I just don't see all the manipulativeness that others see in Cindy. To me, it seems like she walked on eggshells trying to figure out Casey and get any truth out of her. The woman had her husband and daughter (according to Shirley) both taking money and charging up her credits cards. IMO George seems to have a personality disorder much more than his wife. He's allegedly stolen from the wife, shown violence, explosiveness with protesters, weak suicide attempt, manipulation by blaming his behavior on Cindy, been avoidant, reckless with money, allegedly cheated, and in statements heard by the public the subject always turns to being about him. If Cindy had been very controlling they wouldn't have done all that they did to her and the finances.

It is difficult to ascertain who did what first. I agree that GA is as interesting of a study. They 'dance'. One would think CA would have had enough of him because she was the one with the steady income. Yet she blurted out that she didn't want to loose her husband. It's hard to imagine why not.

CA has been trying to manipulate or boss everyone imo. She thought it was okay to hand over the wrong hairbrush to LE, wouln't provide TES with a personal item having belonged to Caylee yet mailed one long distance to a psychic, sent letters to KC through a Lawyer thus manipulating the system. During interviews she keeps a physical grasp on GA. I'm not sure everything that she does is considered manipulation but she is trying to control the outcome her way. I think that's manipulation.

At first when CA acted the way she did while on the stand during the ZG thing, I sort of thought I understood why she was so angry. The reason being that she was in the midst of her daughter being accused of murdering Caylee and if that wasn't enough, here is this ZG person. Apparently, there are many, many ZG in the world. Anyway, as time went on, I recognized her behavior as something other than what I thought it was and realized that CA seemed proud when she thought she had the upper hand in the courtroom. I'm still confused about the ZG thing but that's a subject for another thread.
 
Thank you for posting this essies - and yes, I agree, sociopaths (psychopaths) are in a class of their own. To really understand them - and is that possible for us with "normal" neurosis, is to me to be forever thinking - WTH? And then I have to remind myself they didn't "get" this way, they were born this way and there is no cure.

LG-I wonder (and I think the science is too new for definitive answers) how much is nature and how much is nurture? And for each case there are individual factors-so IMO there can be no blanket statement that "this" is how they got this way.
Surely childhood abuse is a factor-but why does it affect some and not others.
There are those from priviledged backgrounds who become killers-ie. the Craigslist killer. So poverty is not always a factor.
Perhaps some are "born" and some are created by physical means-ie. Chris Benoit.
I guess what I'm saying is that there are many variables to the equation or formula of what makes a killer.
IMO Poor Caylee was the victim of a "perfect storm" of nature, nurture and some people either not paying attention or deliberately ignoring the red flags that were in plain sight!!:furious:
 
One thing we know nothing about is, what sort of person was Cindy's father like before he became elderly, probably mellowed some. We don't know if maybe Cindy could have learned her ways from him. We just don't know and probably never will.

Funny you should mention this as I was just thinking about this yesterday.
 
I watched a program last night, Nightline Prime...Secrets of the mind, why we do what we do...
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Prime/nightline-prime-secrets-mind/story?id=11394776


Neuroscientist had examined the brains of two serial killers, Tommy Sells and Joel Rifkin, they also looked into Chris Benois (famous wrestler who killed his wife son and then commited suicide). The frontal lobe of their brains were severly damaged, which is what turned them to violence and made them sociopaths...Very good show with much information....



I would love for ICA's brain along with CA's brain be examined. It would definately be interesting to see if they too have this extensive "brain damage" which might be the reason for the sociopathic tendencies we all tend to see in them...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

Ohh, I missed that one! I'll have to see if they have it on-line yet! You ever see I, Psychopath?

ETA link http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/
 
Enabling is a co-dependent behavior. The enabler also has something to gain. As long as Cindy enabled, KC would not grow emotionally, psychologically..therefore obtaining independence (self reliance) and maturity. She would remain in the co-dependent relationship where she needed Cindy. End result being, of course, that KC was not 'able' to take Caylee away from Cindy. If KC became defiant and posed a threat to Cindy's security with Caylee, I am guessing this is where the threat of getting legal guardianship of Caylee came into play, as KC was a disabled mother (thanks to a lifetime with Cindy). It was a real tug-of-war. Cindy needed Caylee in her home, so she allowed and encouraged (consciously and subconsciously) KC's inability to become self-reliant as a young mother. Cindy created a double-edged sword for for the damaged KC, resulting in what must have seemed to be a no way out situation..can't stay but can't leave, so she killed Caylee to break free from Cindy's clutches in the sick co-dependent relationship. Caylee had become an object in this war. The power struggle over Caylee had become so bitter, leaving Caylee behind with Cindy and fleeing for freedom was not an option.. KC knew she could not take care of Caylee on her own, but she would not let Cindy 'win'.

Great post!

Learned helplessnes.
 
I agree with you for the most part but I do not believe anyone is beyond hope. My mother (Borderline) was a very sick woman, to the extent of filing false rape claims on men because they dumped her, faking illnesses to the extent of having conned a dr into removing her gallbladder.. telling her 3 children she planned on poisioning our dinner so we could not create more just like us. She married a man dx'd with ASDP and allowed him to drain any bit of "normalcy" we kids had pretended to believe we had. I could go on but I'm sure ya get the type of woman I'm describing. But- I have seen her change in ways I never thought a person could.. don't get me wrong she's still a sick woman but the changes she has made in herself are amazing and IMO anyone that is committed to changing as honestly as she was/is can do the same thing if given the proper insight, motivation and tools. Borderline does not have a cure but with hard work it can stop running (and ruining) your life.

The problem is- sadly for a borderline personality often the work is too hard and old habits die hard. But there is hope and there is treatment and some, though few, can improve

When you tell us these things, I can't help but feel for all you must have endured as a child ~ where there's life there's hope. :hug:
 
LG-I wonder (and I think the science is too new for definitive answers) how much is nature and how much is nurture? And for each case there are individual factors-so IMO there can be no blanket statement that "this" is how they got this way.
Surely childhood abuse is a factor-but why does it affect some and not others.
There are those from priviledged backgrounds who become killers-ie. the Craigslist killer. So poverty is not always a factor.
Perhaps some are "born" and some are created by physical means-ie. Chris Benoit.
I guess what I'm saying is that there are many variables to the equation or formula of what makes a killer.
IMO Poor Caylee was the victim of a "perfect storm" of nature, nurture and some people either not paying attention or deliberately ignoring the red flags that were in plain sight!!:furious:

I believe both can be true. Like Cancer, I think people are born with the "psychopath" gene, some people end up exibiting the symptoms some don't.. some come from good homes, some come from bad homes. But I also believe the term is way over-used and completely misunderstood.
 
Have I missed some evidence or information here? Do we have information stating Cindy has beaten ICA? I understand we have the "choking" incident on Father's Day, but to my understanding, that is a rumor yet to be verified.
Beatings?

The "rumor" came from Lee, no?
 
When you tell us these things, I can't help but feel for all you must have endured as a child ~ where there's life there's hope. :hug:

Thanks :blowkiss: but please know I'm not looking for sympathy just trying to create awareness and let people know there is hope.
 
It is difficult to ascertain who did what first. I agree that GA is as interesting of a study. They 'dance'. One would think CA would have had enough of him because she was the one with the steady income. Yet she blurted out that she didn't want to loose her husband. It's hard to imagine why not.

~ Snipped and BBM ~

I don't believe Cindy feels any real love for George. After all, if she hadn't been worried about having to split "her" house with him, she would have already divorced him. I kinda think the reason she "doesn't want to lose her husband" might be because of how Cindy perceives she and George splitting up would make HER look to the world. Less than the perfect wife......

JMO. :twocents:
 
I watched a program last night, Nightline Prime...Secrets of the mind, why we do what we do...
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Prime/nightline-prime-secrets-mind/story?id=11394776


Neuroscientist had examined the brains of two serial killers, Tommy Sells and Joel Rifkin, they also looked into Chris Benois (famous wrestler who killed his wife son and then commited suicide). The frontal lobe of their brains were severly damaged, which is what turned them to violence and made them sociopaths...Very good show with much information....



I would love for ICA's brain along with CA's brain be examined. It would definately be interesting to see if they too have this extensive "brain damage" which might be the reason for the sociopathic tendencies we all tend to see in them...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

On that program last night. The psychopath wants control, wants to control everyone and everything...which is why, I believe CA and ICA have always bumped heads. Each wanting to control the other and the family...which was the battle with precious Caylee..IMO I do see ICA more defined than CA but I do believe they both have those traits...JMHO

I'm telling you, the program I saw last night, surely opened my eyes..Did anyone else watch???

Justice for Caylee

Thanks LLL for bringing awareness of this program. I'm trying to catch up on the thread but will read the link when I'm done. Fascinating subject indeed.

Also, on a lighter note, studies of the brain are interesting as to understanding stroke victims and their potential for improvement, etc.
 
~ Snipped and BBM ~

I don't believe Cindy feels any real love for George. After all, if she hadn't been worried about having to split "her" house with him, she would have already divorced him. I kinda think the reason she "doesn't want to lose her husband" might be because of how Cindy perceives she and George splitting up would make HER look to the world. Less than the perfect wife......

JMO. :twocents:

Well whatever the reason is, she keeps him around and he keeps coming back to her so that's what I mean by 'they dance' love or no love.
 
I was just reading the last post on page 19 and before I could finish I thought 'has anyone, have I, ever seen CA cry?' I mean really cry. Most people when they really cry loose control over their face muscles. Loosing your granddaughter would be cause to really cry. I know we've talked about KC and her crying but have we ever witnessed CA crying?

If it were me, at the Memorial, I'd be ugly face crying - ya know? Blowing my nose, mascara running down crying - maybe even some shoulder heaving. Just saying.
 
Thanks :blowkiss: but please know I'm not looking for sympathy just trying to create awareness and let people know there is hope.

I know - just wanted to let you know that I care and recognize your point that some people can and do get help and change when and if they want too.
 
LG-I wonder (and I think the science is too new for definitive answers) how much is nature and how much is nurture? And for each case there are individual factors-so IMO there can be no blanket statement that "this" is how they got this way.
Surely childhood abuse is a factor-but why does it affect some and not others.
There are those from priviledged backgrounds who become killers-ie. the Craigslist killer. So poverty is not always a factor.
Perhaps some are "born" and some are created by physical means-ie. Chris Benoit.
I guess what I'm saying is that there are many variables to the equation or formula of what makes a killer.
IMO Poor Caylee was the victim of a "perfect storm" of nature, nurture and some people either not paying attention or deliberately ignoring the red flags that were in plain sight!!:furious:

I guess if you are really interested begin by reading the works of Dr. Robert Hare, who originated the list of characteristics of the psychopaths, wrote "the Psychopath Next Door" among other books and articles and absorb his case studies, lectures etc. He has worked in conjunction with many leading American behavioral scientists and continually does many speaking tours at universities there. There appears no doubt it is nature.

My nephew, who has made millions and millions in both the money markets and the New York Stock Exchange is easily recognizable as fitting this category. He is both ruthless and extremely charming. And rich.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
110
Guests online
1,403
Total visitors
1,513

Forum statistics

Threads
606,360
Messages
18,202,526
Members
233,814
Latest member
CuriousWhiskers
Back
Top