Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[TotallyObsessed]

I find it so very interesting that here on WS, this is thread #10 regarding the A family psyche....and we are STILL wondering WTF is wrong with these people? We will NEVER figure it out. I am also wondering if maybe they aren't that much different that all the other serial killers, killers and just plain evil people? It's just because of the Sunshine Laws in Florida that we have had this glimpse into the mind of evil? I really would hate to "give" the A's the benefit of being "special crazy".

 

[logicalgirl]

I find it so very interesting that here on WS, this is thread #10 regarding the A family psyche....and we are STILL wondering WTF is wrong with these people? We will NEVER figure it out. I am also wondering if maybe they aren't that much different that all the other serial killers, killers and just plain evil people? It's just because of the Sunshine Laws in Florida that we have had this glimpse into the mind of evil? I really would hate to "give" the A's the benefit of being "special crazy".

Totally Obsessed - I can understand why you are still wondering. IMO it is because we disagree on the basic diagnosis of ICA and so we do a lot of post incident coulda shoulda woulda.

If like me you believe ICA is a psychopath, then the list of psychopath indicators describes someone who feels a sense of entitlement without a "normal" behavioral pattern that logic can be used to explain.

There is no logic to a psychopath. They do not have the capacity to feel emotions like you and I do. I believe ICA neither hates nor loves CA. She believes CA is there to give her what she wants, and if she doesn't, then ICA has no use for her. I don't even think ICA loved Caylee. Or hated her. She was an object she had no use for - something in the way of ICA having her "beautiful life". Someone who took the attention and admiration she wanted away for herself. ICA's parents clearly loved - adored - Caylee. It wasn't "right" in ICA's mind that Caylee would be more "loved" than she was. ICA has a grandiose view of her own value.

What we do know about psychopaths is that this condition is genetically/nature based. We also know nuturing can sometimes be a learning process for what is "acceptable behavior" in society. But to truly accept a psychopathic diagnosis is to accept that there is no "controlling" a psychopath. You can love, set boundaries, plead, bargain - all to no avail.

However, if what we are doing is arguing a basic diagnosis, then of course we can go on and on about family diagnosis and not agree about the family dynamic and the reasons behind the behaviors of each one.

 

[The World According]

go to 4:30 minute mark, Casey very flipant about chloroform, BEFORE, ANYTHING ABOUT CHLOROFORM was released
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpyvbYdIF8g[/ame]
The lengths that Cindy went to in her state depo to claim it was SHE who looked up chlorofil , trying to figure out something related to her dogs and plants, etc. is very compelling, imo.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOBrkyhHr_0[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw-l-vi0nbs[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi5hyqXF6i4[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxSbXEQ7DGM[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u-ubvj_IXE[/ame]

 

[thelmadawg]

I find it so very interesting that here on WS, this is thread #10 regarding the A family psyche....and we are STILL wondering WTF is wrong with these people? We will NEVER figure it out. I am also wondering if maybe they aren't that much different that all the other serial killers, killers and just plain evil people? It's just because of the Sunshine Laws in Florida that we have had this glimpse into the mind of evil? I really would hate to "give" the A's the benefit of being "special crazy".

I just realized. Have we EVER seen CA cry; I mean real tears, sad tears. I've seen anger, manipulation, control fits, etc., but where was the real mourning for Caylee? Perhaps her psychopathy is very nearly as dangerous as was KA's.

 

[Reagan]

I find it so very interesting that here on WS, this is thread #10 regarding the A family psyche....and we are STILL wondering WTF is wrong with these people? We will NEVER figure it out.

That's so weird. I had that same exact thought yesterday when I went to open this thread. I saw the 'Q&A' thread was only at #8 but I too thought to myself how interesting it was that the psych thread was at #10. I think it's because most of us have never seen dysfunction at this level. Not just in one member of the family, but a family as a whole. And agreed, I don't think we will ever figure it out either.
Do you ever wonder if there are other families that are just like these people? Again, not just one or two members of the family having a severe mental disorder, but an entire family? I just can't fathom it.
I also wonder what # we will be up to come trial and eventual sentencing time.
Who wants to start taking bets? I'll say #30

P.S I was also wondering last night why casey didn't just go back to work. A place that would unburden her from her motherly duties for at least 8hrs. Especially knowing there were good friends willing to babysit for free. Then I realized she probably just didn't want the burden of working a full time job, which can be exhausting in itself, only to come home and take care of a child she never wanted. JMO

 

[logicalgirl]

That's so weird. I had that same exact thought yesterday when I went to open this thread. I saw the 'Q&A' thread was only at #8 but I too thought to myself how interesting it was that the psych thread was at #10. I think it's because most of us have never seen dysfunction at this level. Not just in one member of the family, but a family as a whole. And agreed, I don't think we will ever figure it out either.
Do you ever wonder if there are other families that are just like these people? Again, not just one or two members of the family having a severe mental disorder, but an entire family? I just can't fathom it.
I also wonder what # we will be up to come trial and eventual sentencing time.
Who wants to start taking bets? I'll say #30

P.S I was also wondering last night why casey didn't just go back to work. A place that would unburden her from her motherly duties for at least 8hrs. Especially knowing there were good friends willing to babysit for free. Then I realized she probably just didn't want the burden of working a full time job, which can be exhausting in itself, only to come home and take care of a child she never wanted. JMO

There has been a lot of work done in the psych field on systemic family dynamics - if one member of the family has problems, the whole family to some degree has - just to even interact with them. If you read in the whole co-dependancy field work done with/for addicts and alcoholics, there is a wealth of information.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I just realized. Have we EVER seen CA cry; I mean real tears, sad tears. I've seen anger, manipulation, control fits, etc., but where was the real mourning for Caylee? Perhaps her psychopathy is very nearly as dangerous as was KA's.

Amen!

 

[OneLostGrl]

That's so weird. I had that same exact thought yesterday when I went to open this thread. I saw the 'Q&A' thread was only at #8 but I too thought to myself how interesting it was that the psych thread was at #10. I think it's because most of us have never seen dysfunction at this level. Not just in one member of the family, but a family as a whole. And agreed, I don't think we will ever figure it out either.
Do you ever wonder if there are other families that are just like these people? Again, not just one or two members of the family having a severe mental disorder, but an entire family? I just can't fathom it.
I also wonder what # we will be up to come trial and eventual sentencing time.
Who wants to start taking bets? I'll say #30

P.S I was also wondering last night why casey didn't just go back to work. A place that would unburden her from her motherly duties for at least 8hrs. Especially knowing there were good friends willing to babysit for free. Then I realized she probably just didn't want the burden of working a full time job, which can be exhausting in itself, only to come home and take care of a child she never wanted. JMO

There are millions of families as dysfunctional as this one.. that's what I been saying all this time. You probably have neighbors this sick.. we all do, society just doesn't know it because they are able to keep up their facade to outsiders. All I needed to hear was that GRIN in Cindy's voice "Which one? I've done several interviews" and I knew what she was- that's how they do it so that people outside of it can't see it.. They are subtle but anyone who has lived in this kind of home can about smell those head games. Most of the kids don't end up killing their kids so the family doesn't get found out and mommy can play innocent victim who everyone takes advantage of her entire life.

Kids that grow up in these kinds of homes are taught to be helpless, they are taught to be dependent on others to have their needs met (that's what makes the "mom'" feel whole- though resentful- people depending on her) Casey was taught that her needs (and wants) would always be met without ever having to put forth any effort or pay any dues (except mom getting b!tchy for a little while but then it's "sweetheart" this and "sweetheart" that. and you learn that early so that's no big deal you just tune the b!tching out after a while) learned helplessness is a difficult thing to unlearn- even if you really want to. I know I know, tons of people come from dysfucntional families and grow up and be responsible but some don't, some have been so damaged they believe they are damaged and spend their lives in a vicious circle of self deafeating behaviors proving to themselves (or to "mom") that mom's right, they are no good. Why work? She never had to do anything else in her sorry, sick, pathetic life but lie to and steal from mom who was happy to play along so SHE could have what fulfilled her- because it is all about what Cindy wants and needs.

The only thing rare about this family is that Caylee was murdered. The rest is typical personality disordered family issues found in homes everywhere across this country.

"And look at where it's at, middle America- Now it's a tragedy- Now it's so sad to see"


http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=28642
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=28645&cn=8
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=28646&w=5&cn=8

 

[logicalgirl]

I just realized. Have we EVER seen CA cry; I mean real tears, sad tears. I've seen anger, manipulation, control fits, etc., but where was the real mourning for Caylee? Perhaps her psychopathy is very nearly as dangerous as was KA's.

Really - I agree we have not seen this - but do we know what has gone on in the Anthony home in CA's private moments? My feeling is that away from the public eye, she cries and cries for Caylee, ICA and the absolute loss forever of what she knew as her family unit. And clearly for the last year or so, at least since the Gonzales civil trial tapes, she has been on at least two kinds of medications to help her deal day to day.

 

[logicalgirl]

I was just having a chuckle to myself after reading One Lost Girls comments about dysfunctional families. Not at the comment (at all!) but about "normalcy". I guess most of us view ourselves as being normal as we go about our day to day business.

I remember sitting around in conversation with my two adult daughters one night and I made some crack about "being normal" - at which point both of my kids cracked up and said "Mom - you aren't normal - you are as eccentric as h*LL - and immediately put on a couple of impromptu skits of me looking for my glasses, reading the newspaper, driving, just doing everyday stuff, then described the immediate family tree. It was pretty funny - so I guess "normal" is in the judgement of the beholder! :blushing:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Really - I agree we have not seen this - but do we know what has gone on in the Anthony home in CA's private moments? My feeling is that away from the public eye, she cries and cries for Caylee, ICA and the absolute loss forever of what she knew as her family unit. And clearly for the last year or so, at least since the Gonzales civil trial tapes, she has been on at least two kinds of medications to help her deal day to day.

And she was on Benzo's prior to that as well as at least one narcotic but iirc she didn't abuse it judging by the fill date on the bottle. But meds as a coping mechanism isn't very new to Cindy. How do I know? the docs about the meds found in the home. There was a point in time where her behavior changed for the better and I believe it may be that she got off the benzos. moo

 

[logicalgirl]

And she was on Benzo's prior to that as well as at least one narcotic but iirc she didn't abuse it judging by the fill date on the bottle. But meds as a coping mechanism isn't very new to Cindy. How do I know? the docs about the meds found in the home. There was a point in time where her behavior changed for the better and I believe it may be that she got off the benzos. moo

You may be absolutely right about the benzo's etc., however during the civil tapes she was so identical to my bi-polar manic mother in one of her manic phases, I was hoping someone had pumped her full of lithium, and that's why we were seeing a somewhat more calmer CA.

I swear watching the civil case depos, I knew what expression or body shift CA was going to make before she made it. It was truly freaky. And as far as anything else besides meds as a way of coping, I don't think CA can even conceive of the consistent hard work with the right professional to even begin to make changes. That's a bandaid family if I ever saw one. Wonder if CA gets that from Shirley?

 

[OneLostGrl]

You may be absolutely right about the benzo's etc., however during the civil tapes she was so identical to my bi-polar manic mother in one of her manic phases, I was hoping someone had pumped her full of lithium, and that's why we were seeing a somewhat more calmer CA.

I swear watching the civil case depos, I knew what expression or body shift CA was going to make before she made it. It was truly freaky. And as far as anything else besides meds as a way of coping, I don't think CA can even conceive of the consistent hard work with the right professional to even begin to make changes. That's a bandaid family if I ever saw one. Wonder if CA gets that from Shirley?

Calmer or manic? Cuz I ain't calm when I'm manic. lol

I don't wanna be talking junk about someone who has kept herself private (I respect that her mother has kept outta the news) and because she has kept herself private we know nothing about her so I won't even speculate but I can't help but wonder how Cindy became Cindy cuz that doesn't just happen! ita about Cindy and the work it would take to change though if she was willing to do the work and was willing to really look inside herself she could change. I hope she one day chooses to fix herself.. I'd have mad respect for that!

 

[logicalgirl]

Calmer or manic? Cuz I ain't calm when I'm manic. lol

I don't wanna be talking junk about someone who has kept herself private (I respect that her mother has kept outta the news) and because she has kept herself private we know nothing about her so I won't even speculate but I can't help but wonder how Cindy became Cindy cuz that doesn't just happen! ita about Cindy and the work it would take to change though if she was willing to do the work and was willing to really look inside herself she could change. I hope she one day chooses to fix herself.. I'd have mad respect for that!

Ditto!

What? You don't associate calm with manic? :waitasec: LOL - and in a manic phase, especially the bad ones - my mother was much more physically stronger than normal. I was struggling with her one night during a bad one, trying to get her from the car to the emergency hospital door entrance and called a male ward assistant who was standing around to help me. At less than five feet tall, she just decked the guy out cold. It took four guys and a straight jacket to get her inside - I had to get her stomach pumped because I knew she'd taken a huge overdose. One of those nights I thank God I don't have to relive.

And want to add I just don't "get" how CA got from straight shootin Shirley to where she is today.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Ditto!

What? You don't associate calm with manic? :waitasec: LOL - and in a manic phase, especially the bad ones - my mother was much more physically stronger than normal. I was struggling with her one night during a bad one, trying to get her from the car to the emergency hospital door entrance and called a male ward assistant who was standing around to help me. At less than five feet tall, she just decked the guy out cold. It took four guys and a straight jacket to get her inside - I had to get her stomach pumped because I knew she'd taken a huge overdose. One of those nights I thank God I don't have to relive.

And want to add I just don't "get" how CA got from straight shootin Shirley to where she is today.

No doubt- psychosis seems to give us some strength too. cops might as well not even bother with their tasers lol. It's cold outside? he!!, can't even tell in my shorts, tank top and psychosis! ohh mental illness. :crazy:

On a serious note- The worst part is that our children have to become our caretakers. And that causes damage!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Calmer or manic? Cuz I ain't calm when I'm manic. lol

I don't wanna be talking junk about someone who has kept herself private (I respect that her mother has kept outta the news) and because she has kept herself private we know nothing about her so I won't even speculate but I can't help but wonder how Cindy became Cindy cuz that doesn't just happen! ita about Cindy and the work it would take to change though if she was willing to do the work and was willing to really look inside herself she could change. I hope she one day chooses to fix herself.. I'd have mad respect for that!

I'll take a stab at this one. CA grew up with three brothers. As the only girl, she probably was considered 'special' by her mom and dad. That in itself is not a bad thing and maybe she was even somewhat of a good girl (good grades, wanted to go to college to become a nurse, etc.) but she was allowed to rule a little too much and her princess needs were catered too. Her brother Rick alluded to the fact that Cindy had always been like that ie, 'bossy'. But LE could not lead him to say she was a liar. We witness CA lying now but in her mind she's protecting her turf. She is overly proud and to put it crudely she has the false sense that her doesn't stink.

Enter George, Mr. Passive/Aggressive. CA probably picked him because he enjoyed her bossiness at first (heck, he didn't want to make decisions) but, after a while, he resented her and all of the decisions she made. Now Cindy is no longer being worshipped and adored by anyone - enter real life. Because she had completed her goal of earning her nursing degree, she had more power than GA in that she held the purse strings. This is not a bad thing in itself except for when GA wouldn't/didn't do his share, which emasculated him further, and then he began doing underhanded stuff, Cindy became overly concerned about being in control. This time CA was chasing the idea of having ANY control because she realized her once adoring husband was crapping all over her and later her daughter followed in his footsteps and, it seems, she tried to fight back by being more controlling. Cindy couldn't/can't let go of her dreams and the idea she has of how her family should be and she cannot accept that her family didn't turn out the way it should have imo. Therefore she looks to be, as she is, delusional.

How does that sound?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Ditto!

And want to add I just don't "get" how CA got from straight shootin Shirley to where she is today.

snipped bm ~
If you think about their communications though, the sisters do talk quite a bit about what kid of theirs is doing what, which kid is coming or going, which kid did/does nothing, etc. What I mean is their lives still seem to revolve a lot around their grown children. I'm not sure if that's right or wrong (no judgments) but their activities and discussions are mostly about their children/grandchildren. And, of course, the kitty stories.

That said, I'm glad they have each other (wish I had a sister) and they seem very close and curteous of one another and seem to handle their own affairs very well. It has to be torture for Shirley to watch this play out and for so long.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Calmer or manic? Cuz I ain't calm when I'm manic. lol

I don't wanna be talking junk about someone who has kept herself private (I respect that her mother has kept outta the news) and because she has kept herself private we know nothing about her so I won't even speculate but I can't help but wonder how Cindy became Cindy cuz that doesn't just happen! ita about Cindy and the work it would take to change though if she was willing to do the work and was willing to really look inside herself she could change. I hope she one day chooses to fix herself.. I'd have mad respect for that!

A long time ago my mom put on her refrigerater "Let Go and Let God". But then you really have to own it and do it (let go). We cannot control other people. We can ask for what we need and hope it is given to us but we cannot tell other people what they must do, what we think they should do or especially what they are going to do. It doesn't work like that. But we can tell other people what they are not going to be allowed to do to us which is challenging when you want to be the center of the universe for whatever reason (thinking it's love, getting affirmation from the outside, ego/thinking you know what's right for everyone else, praise and feeling needed, among other reasons).

I'm noticing this behavior in play now more than ever since learning about it through this case and am beginning to be able to identify when others are exerting their control over others, are angry when they don't get the cooperation they 'ordered' in a hidden way, expect others' to make them happy, etc. Awareness is a scary thing!

 

[LambChop]

CA was controlling from day one. She told GA he had to quit what HE had chosen as his life's career. My husband use to say, "Once a cop, always a cop even if you are no longer on the job." CA took away from him the one thing he really wanted to do. Clearly she was in control at that early time in their lives and has never let go of the reins. She controls him now with his misstatements.

CA is right. If she were to admit that KC did something this terrible she'd be blaming herself because they are cut from the same cloth....CA made sure of that. To even think about bearing some of the responsiblity for the death of your beloved granddaughter must be unbearable for her to even think about. jmo

 

[LambChop]

A long time ago my mom put on her refrigerater "Let Go and Let God". But then you really have to own it and do it (let go). We cannot control other people. We can ask for what we need and hope it is given to us but we cannot tell other people what they must do, what we think they should do or especially what they are going to do. It doesn't work like that. But we can tell other people what they are not going to be allowed to do to us which is challenging when you want to be the center of the universe for whatever reason (thinking it's love, getting affirmation from the outside, ego/thinking you know what's right for everyone else, praise and feeling needed, among other reasons).

I'm noticing this behavior in play now more than ever since learning about it through this case and am beginning to be able to identify when others are exerting their control over others, are angry when they don't get the cooperation they 'ordered' in a hidden way, expect others' to make them happy, etc. Awareness is a scary thing!

Yes, Woe, it is. Now imagine living with this person for the rest of your life. Now that is real scary.