Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[claudicici]

See, I don't think Casey even likes, let alone loves herself. Because of her IMO Borderline mother constantly crossing boundries, enmeshment, splitting, co-dependant and enabling behaviors I don't think Casey even knows who she is. She is whatever it is her mommy says she is.. until she isn't. Then she acts out in a big way and mommy won't even accept the truth of it (pregnant, lying about jobs, school etc), instead she creates an alternate reality for her daughter and goes on with her life as if everything is fine.. until it isn't. (people noticing the pregancy, Casey not being able to graduate, grandma b!tching cuz the money out of grandpas account)

Being raised by a borderline parent is a very confusing and often scary existence. You are not allowed to feel your own feelings (you are told what you feel is wrong), think your own thoughts, form your own opinions or live your own life. These parents truly steal their childrens identity before they can even form one. I think Casey meant it when she texted TonE saying she hates herself and is the worst mother in the world. I think her self hatred and feelings of worthlessness is what led to her destructive behaviors.

MO.

...incredible post.I agree 100%

 

[skygirl]

Regarding the "never got her needs met by GA and CA" is not exactly what I meant. KC certainly had her needs met by her parents as far as physical needs (housing, food, finances, cothing, toys etc). I believe the needs they met were needs that reflected back onto them in a positive way (ie: cute clothing purchased by CA to look "perfect" to others). But emotional needs, like recognizing KC's true emotions and responding to them appropriately. For instance, again the video of Caylee snuggling with GGP, it wasn't Caylee's or GGP's need for Caylee to hug and kiss him. There was no need to do anything but just enjoy those moments between this little one and her elderly Papa, but CA had a need she could not override and forced Caylee to stop her own emotional feelings and natural interaction w/GGP to comply w/CA's demand to hug and kiss. In that interaction, Caylee and GGP then had to stop their sweet moment of relationship to comply w/CA's need. This demand of "performance" from CA was not for the benefit of GGP or Caylee, it was purely to meet CA's need. A need for Caylee to perform for her. If a pattern of behavior overtime is established, where each time CA sees someone else's emotions don't fit w/CA's agenda, CA's agenda will always override KC's eventually. I think this speaks to the interaction between KC and her Mom in jail. "Will somebody just let me (speak/feel)?" In essence, KC may have grown up in a house w/an extremely "esteem sensitive" parent who feels their child must look perfect at all times in order for the parent to look perfect to the outside world. It is all about how they think others will perceive them (narcissism). The child is a reflection of themselves.

Snipped for space & BBM:

This reminds me of something CA mentioned in her FBI interview about how (pharaphrasing here) KC had learned from CA about how to keep Caylee clean all the time. CA mentions about how when her kids were younger, she would bathe them in the am, again at night before bed, and anytime during the day they had to run/go somewhere she would put them in the tub and give em a quick wash. Wonder if CA enforeced this at home with KC for Caylee. Me personally. Bath at night before bed, and if we are going to the g-store, they get dressed and a warm soapy wash cloth. (unless mega muddy)

I guess I just thought it was a bit much. I know I don't have that kind of time on my hands. Not to mention the energy. So re: your post Woe, rings true...All about appearences?

rnament::bath:

 

[wenwe4]

[/B][/B]

Snipped for space & BBM:

This reminds me of something CA mentioned in her FBI interview about how (pharaphrasing here) KC had learned from CA about how to keep Caylee clean all the time. CA mentions about how when her kids were younger, she would bathe them in the am, again at night before bed, and anytime during the day they had to run/go somewhere she would put them in the tub and give em a quick wash. Wonder if CA enforeced this at home with KC for Caylee. Me personally. Bath at night before bed, and if we are going to the g-store, they get dressed and a warm soapy wash cloth. (unless mega muddy)

I guess I just thought it was a bit much. I know I don't have that kind of time on my hands. Not to mention the energy. So re: your post Woe, rings true...All about appearences?

rnament::bath:

The post you referenced is actually my post, unfortunately I think I screwed up when quoting WBG and somehow removed the "quote" so it morphed into wbg's. WBG - I am sorry, as my words are being attributed to your post. Ultimately - It's all my fault.

The bathing CA mentions is absolutely in-line w/esteem sensitivity strategies of attachment. Good isn't good enough because you and your children (and your home) must look perfect at all times as a reflection on yourself. This is a perfect example of meeting the parent's needs and not necessarily the child's need. Truly, 3 baths a day is not necessarily good for their skin. It was all about CA's need to look "perfect" and have her children look "perfect".

ps I think I am off to go listen to that interview - any help in finding it would be greatly appreciated! TIA!

 

[cloud]

The post you referenced is actually my post, unfortunately I think I screwed up when quoting WBG and somehow removed the "quote" so it morphed into wbg's. WBG - I am sorry, as my words are being attributed to your post. Ultimately - It's all my fault.

The bathing CA mentions is absolutely in-line w/esteem sensitivity strategies of attachment. Good isn't good enough because you and your children (and your home) must look perfect at all times as a reflection on yourself. This is a perfect example of meeting the parent's needs and not necessarily the child's need. Truly, 3 baths a day is not necessarily good for their skin. It was all about CA's need to look "perfect" and have her children look "perfect".

ps I think I am off to go listen to that interview - any help in finding it would be greatly appreciated! TIA!

I totally agree. Anything else other than "perfect" was not acceptable to CA.

That is a very heavy burden to carry for anyone, probably especially for someone who was not ready to have a child, certainly not ready to devote her whole life to her.

Well, this is where CA's obssession with perfection tears lives apart - her own, and her closest. And tragically ends up in the loss of a child who was so confused that she didn't know who to cling to, or who loved her. IMO, one day it would be her mother, then she'd be away. Then another day it would be grandma, but she went away too. One day it would be grandpa, but he also was busy sometimes. Other days, it would be Jesse and family, and that was nice.

I'm not even going with the "nanny" thing.

Then she was taken to visit her GGF, and her body language said it all. Please just let me know that I'm safe and loved in one place. She wasn't afraid of her GGF - she was clinging to him as a refuge, as a place of comfort, away from conflict and drama.

Two CMAs have a lot to answer for, as well as one GA who apparently cowered rather than face it.

JMHO

JMHO

 

[wenwe4]

I totally agree. Anything else other than "perfect" was not acceptable to CA.

That is a very heavy burden to carry for anyone, probably especially for someone who was not ready to have a child, certainly not ready to devote her whole life to her.

Well, this is where CA's obssession with perfection tears lives apart - her own, and her closest. And tragically ends up in the loss of a child who was so confused that she didn't know who to cling to, or who loved her. IMO, one day it would be her mother, then she'd be away. Then another day it would be grandma, but she went away too. One day it would be grandpa, but he also was busy sometimes. Other days, it would be Jesse and family, and that was nice.

I'm not even going with the "nanny" thing.

Then she was taken to visit her GGF, and her body language said it all. Please just let me know that I'm safe and loved in one place. She wasn't afraid of her GGF - she was clinging to him as a refuge, as a place of comfort, away from conflict and drama.

Two CMAs have a lot to answer for, as well as one GA who apparently cowered rather than face it.

JMHO

JMHO

Exactly! Attachment research proves that children need consistent primary care givers and the more number of primary care givers the higher increase in issues of reactive attachment disorder in children. Extensive studies were done on the children found in the Romanian orphanages who had multiple care providers, often never the same person. The children's physical needs were provided by the clock (if at all) instead of meeting the individual child's needs in the moment (or reasonable time period) when they actually needed comfort, etc. The rotating shifts never had care providers assigned to specific children or wards. There was no way to allow for developing relationship. Kids were essentially left in their cribs fulltime and were at the mercy of any adult who happened to show up and provide care in an assembly line fashion. This type of care (or extreme lack of it) resulted in the largest population of children exhibiting "reactive attachment disorder" in one setting. Not sure if any of you remember those videos of finding babies lined up in cribs, living in squalor, rocking themselves back and forth - (it was horrifying).

 

[Woe.be.gone]

[/B][/B]

Snipped for space & BBM:

This reminds me of something CA mentioned in her FBI interview about how (pharaphrasing here) KC had learned from CA about how to keep Caylee clean all the time. CA mentions about how when her kids were younger, she would bathe them in the am, again at night before bed, and anytime during the day they had to run/go somewhere she would put them in the tub and give em a quick wash. Wonder if CA enforeced this at home with KC for Caylee. Me personally. Bath at night before bed, and if we are going to the g-store, they get dressed and a warm soapy wash cloth. (unless mega muddy)

I guess I just thought it was a bit much. I know I don't have that kind of time on my hands. Not to mention the energy. So re: your post Woe, rings true...All about appearences?

rnament::bath:

Some how my name got attached to wenwe4's thoughts which I commented on below her post and agree her's are excellent observations. Just giving credit where credit is due.

I agree with you that that's a lot of bathing that went on in that house.

 

[wenwe4]

an observation I made while re-listening to the CA interviews w/Yuri (I am sure this has been brought up before - but it raised my "hinky-meter" was how many times CA referred to "herself" within relationship w/Caylee, GA, etc. It was "her" home that GA wasn't allowed to throw JG out of when they caught JG & KC & Caylee lying on KC's bed watching TV. But what sent me over the moon was when she was talking about "her" anniversary when she & GA had a date while they were separated.

 

[Reagan]

I'm sure this was discussed at length.. and I hope someone can point me in the right direction and/or thread(s). I did a search and didn't come up with much.

I was reviewing one of KC's first pre-trial hearings (Jan 30th, 2009). The hearing right after the remains of Caylee were found, and no more than 12 seconds after Mark Nejame said the words "remains of a child", KC tosses a pen at Baez, smiling.
She knows she is being watched, she recognizes that someone is speaking about her child who she killed, yet she doesn't appear to realize her behavior is unacceptable until Baez ignores her and sets her pen down. It takes her more than 10 seconds to think of what just happened..reaches by Baez for her pen... then she tries, rather poorly, to look like she gives a crap about what is going on around her.
What could cause such blatant disregard and detachment from your child? From the seriousness of the situation around her? I mean I get it.. she doesn't care, but what other disorders can be attributed to such detachment? I've seen many a sociopaths from the cases I've followed, but that short clip alone still shocks and appalls me to this day. I've never seen anything like it. I mean she doesn't even TRY, as if she's oblivious to the world around her, and she's not at a hearing where she is being accused of murdering her own flesh and blood. An innocent child for crying out loud.


P.S Can this footage be used during her trial by either the Pros or defense?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I'm sure this was discussed at length.. and I hope someone can point me in the right direction and/or thread(s). I did a search and didn't come up with much.

I was reviewing one of KC's first pre-trial hearings (Jan 30th, 2009). The hearing right after the remains of Caylee were found, and no more than 12 seconds after Mark Nejame said the words "remains of a child", KC tosses a pen at Baez, smiling.
She knows she is being watched, she recognizes that someone is speaking about her child who she killed, yet she doesn't appear to realize her behavior is unacceptable until Baez ignores her and sets her pen down. It takes her more than 10 seconds to think of what just happened..reaches by Baez for her pen... then she tries, rather poorly, to look like she gives a crap about what is going on around her.
What could cause such blatant disregard and detachment from your child? From the seriousness of the situation around her? I mean I get it.. she doesn't care, but what other disorders can be attributed to such detachment? I've seen many a sociopaths from the cases I've followed, but that short clip alone still shocks and appalls me to this day. I've never seen anything like it. I mean she doesn't even TRY, as if she's oblivious to the world around her, and she's not at a hearing where she is being accused of murdering her own flesh and blood. An innocent child for crying out loud.


P.S Can this footage be used during her trial by either the Pros or defense?

And you would think she would at least fake it just for the sake of self preservation and appearances...she has to have been told the importance of how she comes across. I guess the eye-jabbing/fake crying might be explained by that?

 

[Reagan]

And you would think she would at least fake it just for the sake of self preservation and appearances...she has to have been told the importance of how she comes across. I guess the eye-jabbing/fake crying might be explained by that?

A little too late. Like 1 year too late.

 

[cloud]

And you would think she would at least fake it just for the sake of self preservation and appearances...she has to have been told the importance of how she comes across. I guess the eye-jabbing/fake crying might be explained by that?

I personally think she flaunted it for a long while - the gum-snapping, the shorts, the tight jeans, wearing the white-rimmed sunglasses bought with stolen money,... I think she was making a statement: stick it.

Then Baez tried to temper her image with the "wholesome look" - serious expression, grey trousers, loose fitting white blouse and EYEGLASSES, which we'd never seen her wear before.

Thing is... it screamed FAKE. IMO, it was confirmed a short time later when she was sitting in the interview room in the same attire, minus eyeglasses, shirt unbottoned, and wearing a great big smile, at times, joking and flirting.

Baez tries, but when you have a subject like that, it's like beating your head against a wall, and when it stops it feels good.

She has lied her way through this whole tragedy, and IMO her lawyers are actively encouraging that same behaviour. I know... they're defense attorneys and that's their job. But when a client lies so blatantly about her own child's "disappearance", and then defense tries to beffudle the facts by any means, including encouraging more lies, or subterfuge... one has to wonder whom we're protecting and why.

I would have thought, and hoped it would be Caylee, and every other child in similar situations.

JMHO

 

[Curious Me]

I personally think she flaunted it for a long while - the gum-snapping, the shorts, the tight jeans, wearing the white-rimmed sunglasses bought with stolen money,... I think she was making a statement: stick it.
Then Baez tried to temper her image with the "wholesome look" - serious expression, grey trousers, loose fitting white blouse and EYEGLASSES, which we'd never seen her wear before.

Thing is... it screamed FAKE. IMO, it was confirmed a short time later when she was sitting in the interview room in the same attire, minus eyeglasses, shirt unbottoned, and wearing a great big smile, at times, joking and flirting.

Baez tries, but when you have a subject like that, it's like beating your head against a wall, and when it stops it feels good.

She has lied her way through this whole tragedy, and IMO her lawyers are actively encouraging that same behaviour. I know... they're defense attorneys and that's their job. But when a client lies so blatantly about her own child's "disappearance", and then defense tries to beffudle the facts by any means, including encouraging more lies, or subterfuge... one has to wonder whom we're protecting and why.
I would have thought, and hoped it would be Caylee, and every other child in similar situations.

JMHO

BBM Don't forget that High-Five moment with her brother caught on camera that really disturbed me. What was that about? KC's actions during that time period depicted some actress wanna be, so well-known and admired...for killing her child.

Then, the studious eye glass girl, the school marm with the bun, a whole bunch of ugly clothes. Every once in awhile, some eye poking tears will be faked if she prodded by defense.

I have the same questions as you. It seems a shame her Defense team is allowed to attempt to manipulate and befuddle the facts. I have a feeling we "ain't seen nothing yet", but we're not stupid. I don't think the jury will be fooled.

Keep believing, in the end, we will see Justice for Caylee.


(Hey, cloud, I thought jumbo sunglasses were all the rage with dummies! But mine are red, and not stolen.):cooler:

 

[Curious Me]

Don't know if any of you are a fan of Sam Vaknin. Here's what he had to say about
The Narcissist Mother. http://samvak.tripod.com/faq64.html

 

[cloud]

BBM Don't forget that High-Five moment with her brother caught on camera that really disturbed me. What was that about? KC's actions during that time period depicted some actress wanna be, so well-known and admired...for killing her child.

Then, the studious eye glass girl, the school marm with the bun, a whole bunch of ugly clothes. Every once in awhile, some eye poking tears will be faked if she prodded by defense.

I have the same questions as you. It seems a shame her Defense team is allowed to attempt to manipulate and befuddle the facts. I have a feeling we "ain't seen nothing yet", but we're not stupid. I don't think the jury will be fooled.

Keep believing, in the end, we will see Justice for Caylee.



(Hey, cloud, I thought jumbo sunglasses were all the rage with dummies! But mine are red, and not stolen.):cooler:

Hey, Curious! ITA.

I don't think any person with half a brain is going to buy into than spin.

The jury has a duty to examine all the facts and to remain neutral and render an honest finding based on factual and circumstantial evidence. That's all anyone could ever ask of a juror. And that's a lot. I'm not sure I would want that on my shoulders, but I wouldn't shirk it - I'd just try my best to be fair and always honest.


Hey, Curious... enjoy those jumbo red sunglasses of yours! I'm having a grand old time just imagining it!! Go for it, girl!!!!

JMHO

 

[cloud]

BBM Don't forget that High-Five moment with her brother caught on camera that really disturbed me. What was that about? KC's actions during that time period depicted some actress wanna be, so well-known and admired...for killing her child.

Then, the studious eye glass girl, the school marm with the bun, a whole bunch of ugly clothes. Every once in awhile, some eye poking tears will be faked if she prodded by defense.

I have the same questions as you. It seems a shame her Defense team is allowed to attempt to manipulate and befuddle the facts. I have a feeling we "ain't seen nothing yet", but we're not stupid. I don't think the jury will be fooled.

Keep believing, in the end, we will see Justice for Caylee.


(Hey, cloud, I thought jumbo sunglasses were all the rage with dummies! But mine are red, and not stolen.):cooler:

(bolding mine)

Yeah... that bothered me too - it just seemed un-natural. On the one hand, it could have been a brother-sister thing trying to support (on his part) and acknowledge the support (on her part)... but it seemed so inappropriate, given the circumstances.

I don't know whether it means something, or nothing at all. It just didn't seem to "sit" right. But then again... take a look at the "whole", which isn't, IMHO.

 

[Knot4u2no]

I'm sure this was discussed at length.. and I hope someone can point me in the right direction and/or thread(s). I did a search and didn't come up with much.

I was reviewing one of KC's first pre-trial hearings (Jan 30th, 2009). The hearing right after the remains of Caylee were found, and no more than 12 seconds after Mark Nejame said the words "remains of a child", KC tosses a pen at Baez, smiling.
She knows she is being watched, she recognizes that someone is speaking about her child who she killed, yet she doesn't appear to realize her behavior is unacceptable until Baez ignores her and sets her pen down. It takes her more than 10 seconds to think of what just happened..reaches by Baez for her pen... then she tries, rather poorly, to look like she gives a crap about what is going on around her.
What could cause such blatant disregard and detachment from your child? From the seriousness of the situation around her? I mean I get it.. she doesn't care, but what other disorders can be attributed to such detachment? I've seen many a sociopaths from the cases I've followed, but that short clip alone still shocks and appalls me to this day. I've never seen anything like it. I mean she doesn't even TRY, as if she's oblivious to the world around her, and she's not at a hearing where she is being accused of murdering her own flesh and blood. An innocent child for crying out loud.


P.S Can this footage be used during her trial by either the Pros or defense?

Casey Anthony’s BRACE Character Profile may provide some answers. This link works with Foxfire, not Internet Explorer.

http://crimsonshadows.net/articles-...ng-mainmenu-140/168-profiling-casey?showall=1

Russell

 

[ThommyMac]

I don't know if I have to be vetted as an expert VA patient or ex criminal. The following can be taken from an experienced amateur. My opinions on the BPD chatter are based on having been diagnosed as such a couple years ago. Like it or not, mental illness has a huge stigma attached to it. I never had too much a problem admitting to having a criminal record or being an ex-junkie BUT it took me a long time to be able to admit to someone I was receiving treatment for a mental illness. Both me mum and little brother were life-long nurses who felt psychology was akin to shamanism and its practitioners as witch doctors. Who knows how CA feels about them but I doubt she would want anyone thinking her perfect daughter could need mental help. I had doubts and misgivings about the validity of psych treatment myself but the proof is in the pudding. Sticking to meds, therapy and twice a month visits to the VAMC Pittsburgh's PTSD clinic has helped me get multiple years free from hard drugs, the longest length in me life since first using. My other comment is about being sentenced by a judge. Again, I do not claim expert but it is above novice level, sad to say. The court did not care much about VA mental diagnosis. They did take military service into account and were pretty lenient, all things considered. The biggest factor was me admitting culpability and a lawyer who worked with the DA and judge to get a sentence everyone could claim a "win", whatever that is. Please keep in mind this was in SW Pennsylvania. Your results may differ, adjusting the recipe for high altitudes is recommended.

 

[RR0004]

I don't know if I have to be vetted as an expert VA patient or ex criminal. The following can be taken from an experienced amateur. My opinions on the BPD chatter are based on having been diagnosed as such a couple years ago. Like it or not, mental illness has a huge stigma attached to it. I never had too much a problem admitting to having a criminal record or being an ex-junkie BUT it took me a long time to be able to admit to someone I was receiving treatment for a mental illness. Both me mum and little brother were life-long nurses who felt psychology was akin to shamanism and its practitioners as witch doctors. Who knows how CA feels about them but I doubt she would want anyone thinking her perfect daughter could need mental help. I had doubts and misgivings about the validity of psych treatment myself but the proof is in the pudding. Sticking to meds, therapy and twice a month visits to the VAMC Pittsburgh's PTSD clinic has helped me get multiple years free from hard drugs, the longest length in me life since first using. My other comment is about being sentenced by a judge. Again, I do not claim expert but it is above novice level, sad to say. The court did not care much about VA mental diagnosis. They did take military service into account and were pretty lenient, all things considered. The biggest factor was me admitting culpability and a lawyer who worked with the DA and judge to get a sentence everyone could claim a "win", whatever that is. Please keep in mind this was in SW Pennsylvania. Your results may differ, adjusting the recipe for high altitudes is recommended.

:blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Curious Me]

Hey, Curious! ITA.

I don't think any person with half a brain is going to buy into than spin.

The jury has a duty to examine all the facts and to remain neutral and render an honest finding based on factual and circumstantial evidence. That's all anyone could ever ask of a juror. And that's a lot. I'm not sure I would want that on my shoulders, but I wouldn't shirk it - I'd just try my best to be fair and always honest.


Hey, Curious... enjoy those jumbo red sunglasses of yours! I'm having a grand old time just imagining it!! Go for it, girl!!!!

JMHO

cloud, don't you think if the Defense could find the right outfit for Casey, she might get off on the charges? Maybe a prairie girl look with a cute printed dress with a white collar. There's got to be some outfit that will work! It's only a matter of time before we see it. :hourglass:

Caylee was still missing when LA and KC were high-fiving. It really made me suspect LA was just as odd as the rest of the family.

Jurors are going to see through all the Defense ploys I would think. Also, I don't think they will be able to convince anyone that KC had deep discomfort at anytime before or after Caylee's death. They're stuck with trying to explain that high-fiver, remorseless spiteful b!tch. (maybe in a prairie girl dress but nevertheless guilty)

 

[cloud]

I don't know if I have to be vetted as an expert VA patient or ex criminal. The following can be taken from an experienced amateur. My opinions on the BPD chatter are based on having been diagnosed as such a couple years ago. Like it or not, mental illness has a huge stigma attached to it. I never had too much a problem admitting to having a criminal record or being an ex-junkie BUT it took me a long time to be able to admit to someone I was receiving treatment for a mental illness. Both me mum and little brother were life-long nurses who felt psychology was akin to shamanism and its practitioners as witch doctors. Who knows how CA feels about them but I doubt she would want anyone thinking her perfect daughter could need mental help. I had doubts and misgivings about the validity of psych treatment myself but the proof is in the pudding. Sticking to meds, therapy and twice a month visits to the VAMC Pittsburgh's PTSD clinic has helped me get multiple years free from hard drugs, the longest length in me life since first using. My other comment is about being sentenced by a judge. Again, I do not claim expert but it is above novice level, sad to say. The court did not care much about VA mental diagnosis. They did take military service into account and were pretty lenient, all things considered. The biggest factor was me admitting culpability and a lawyer who worked with the DA and judge to get a sentence everyone could claim a "win", whatever that is. Please keep in mind this was in SW Pennsylvania. Your results may differ, adjusting the recipe for high altitudes is recommended.

Hi ThommyMac - you acknowledge it and worked hard to do something about it and get the required treatment. With CA, nothing like that was going to happen, because everyone in the family is... "perfect". What a heavy burden to carry for anyone, especially if they're young and a rebellious and maybe fragile.

I couldn't do it, but I did try for a very long time when I was young. Did the whole school, university, work and no time for extracurricular activities The difference is, no-one in my family expected me to be perfect, but I felt I had to be. The pressure one puts on oneself.

I wish you well.

JMHO