Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

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I don't know if I have to be vetted as an expert VA patient or ex criminal. The following can be taken from an experienced amateur. My opinions on the BPD chatter are based on having been diagnosed as such a couple years ago. Like it or not, mental illness has a huge stigma attached to it. I never had too much a problem admitting to having a criminal record or being an ex-junkie BUT it took me a long time to be able to admit to someone I was receiving treatment for a mental illness. Both me mum and little brother were life-long nurses who felt psychology was akin to shamanism and its practitioners as witch doctors. Who knows how CA feels about them but I doubt she would want anyone thinking her perfect daughter could need mental help. I had doubts and misgivings about the validity of psych treatment myself but the proof is in the pudding. Sticking to meds, therapy and twice a month visits to the VAMC Pittsburgh's PTSD clinic has helped me get multiple years free from hard drugs, the longest length in me life since first using. My other comment is about being sentenced by a judge. Again, I do not claim expert but it is above novice level, sad to say. The court did not care much about VA mental diagnosis. They did take military service into account and were pretty lenient, all things considered. The biggest factor was me admitting culpability and a lawyer who worked with the DA and judge to get a sentence everyone could claim a "win", whatever that is. Please keep in mind this was in SW Pennsylvania. Your results may differ, adjusting the recipe for high altitudes is recommended.



ThommyMac, it is rare to find someone that will talk about their own psych problems or treatment. I salute you for accepting the help. May you find peace and happiness, and be able to help others. :)
 
cloud, don't you think if the Defense could find the right outfit for Casey, she might get off on the charges? Maybe a prairie girl look with a cute printed dress with a white collar. There's got to be some outfit that will work! It's only a matter of time before we see it. :hourglass:

Caylee was still missing when LA and KC were high-fiving. It really made me suspect LA was just as odd as the rest of the family.

Jurors are going to see through all the Defense ploys I would think. Also, I don't think they will be able to convince anyone that KC had deep discomfort at anytime before or after Caylee's death. They're stuck with trying to explain that high-fiver, remorseless spiteful b!tch. (maybe in a prairie girl dress but nevertheless guilty)

Maybe they'll just resort to prison overalls... 'poor me' sympathy factor. Nothing else seemed to have worked so far. (I am being sarcastic)

If the defense want to treat the jury as morons, I say let them :). I don't think they'll be doing themselves, or especially their client, any favours, IMO.
 
thanks, I tried it anyways having IE, and caught a glimpse of the article then it gave me trouble. It looks like a good article. Can you talk about it some?

It is a bit much, but some of the findings are (sorry about the length and jargon):

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Analysis of Casey Anthony's Basic BRACE Character Profile™ Graphic

There is significant pathology in all three domains (Cognitive, Behavior, and Existential) and for all three character types (Type A, Type B and Type C). The overall profile and each domain is dominated by Type C characters, which reflects an extremely self-centered and self-justifying individual who is functionally possessed by the active pursuit of all types of pleasure and comfort, sacrificing others in the process, and the simultaneous avoidance of pain/discomfort, including personal and social responsibilities. This person's imagination is full of self-serving fantasies and she has an unbridled willingness to act-out the desires of her heart, all at the expense of others. The high Type B characteristics in the Cognitive domain indicate a preoccupation with matters of power and control, which in combination with the high Type A characteristics, indicate exceptionally poor judgment and an almost total disregard for consequences. This person wears cognitive blinders and others are valued only to the degree that they afford her some type of gain or the avoidance of undesired consequences.

The Behavior domain reflects a unrestrained level of acting-out (Type C) and very proactive competition with others for attention, control, and being on center stage. The acting-out is often dramatic, intrusive, manipulative, generally indifferent to others, and very likely to escalate until limits are externally imposed or personal resources are exhausted. Alcohol and other substance abuse are likely and the pleasure seeking will always exceed the pleasure found, leading to new excesses and related personal deficits, both physical and psychological. However, it is the social reinforcement and control that dominates, even to the degree that alcohol and drugs become secondary sources of pleasure/comfort and pain/discomfort avoidance.
************
Keeping in mind that the maximum score in any cell is 4.00 (core characteristic) and that a score of 2.00 (strongly characteristic) is significantly problematic, Cognitive Type A reveals the degree of cognitive dysfunction, regardless of type (psychiatric, brain trauma, mental retardation, underlying disease process, substance induced, etc.). Behavior Type B reveals the degree to which power and control issues are acted-out in violation of the rights of others, whether antisocial or indifferent, abuse or neglect, but particularly including force and violence whether direct or indirect. And, Existential Type C reveals the degree to which self-serving desires dominate motivation. Notice that all desires are acted-out (Behavior Type C) and there is a high level of related poor judgment (Behavior Type A), whether due to poor impulse control, a narrowed focus of attention, or simply a disregard for consequences.
************
In light of the absence of any overall positive correlation with the characteristics of Antisocial Personality Disorder, this combination reveals a level of narcissism that rises to Psychopathy. In combination with the fact that 1) there is no irrational thinking based on paranoid characteristics, 2) no perceptual distortions associated with Schizotypal characteristics, 3) power and control issues are not those associated with a Paranoid Personality Disorder, and 4) Histrionic characteristics exceed Narcissistic characteristics, this is the profile of a person prone to dramatic, uninhibited and dangerous acting-out. This person is independent, proactive, flexible and socially engaging. This is a person with characteristics consistent with a socially engaging Psychopath who motivated by social and interpersonal control, direct or indirect. The mild Asperger's characteristics are very likely secondary to a lack of regard for others and a high sense of interpersonal entitlement.
************
The Type A characteristics reveal a pervasive dysfunction of judgment based on a distorted world view and a detachment from shared interpersonal relationships. There is a time-bound and situation-bound quality to life experiences and the present is pervasive. That is, the present is the only reality but always entirely undesirable, and the driving purpose of the present is any type of change. The Type B and C characteristics indicate dramatic and public methods combined with purely self-serving motives and deliberate indifference.
************
The most salient findings at this level of analysis are the very selective Cognitive Antisocial characteristics, the perfect Type C Existential match for a prototypical 40-point Hare PCL-R psychopath, and most particularly, the significant Type A Existential characteristics for Avoidant Personality Disorder. Such an atypical finding opens the door to deep underlying anxiety, which may index a Dissociative Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, some other anxiety based disorder or simply the criminal intent to hide the truth related to her daughter, Caylee.
************
Based on her BRACE Character Profile, Casey Anthony is self-centered, self-justifying and self-promotional. It is all learned behavior, but there appears to be some type of memory dysfunction, not a matter of not knowing the difference between the truth and a lie, but rather not caring or not expecting to be caught or held responsible, perhaps aided by episodes of acute substance abuse. There is a semblance of confabulation and indifference to others or the truth, but there is something else.

There is an intentional quality to her indifference, a deliberate manipulation of others, a calculated purpose that affords her some type of personal reinforcement. Perhaps media coverage, perhaps the fame and fortune some are trying to cultivate through her, perhaps. In order to better understand Casey Anthony, her profile was correlated with several other profiles of characters (fictional and non-fictional) and prototypical types (serial killers, spies, etc.) already in the BRACE Character Profile™ database.

Casey Anthony correlates negatively with the DSM-III-R Sadistic Personality Disorder, but positively with the DSM-IV-TR Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. She correlates positively with secretive, manipulative types such as Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy and Dennis Lynn Rader, but not with Joel Rifkin (Asperger's Disorder), Edmund Kemper III, or the sophisticated Dr. Hannibal Lecter. Asperger's Disorder is further ruled-out by a significant negative correlation with the infamous fictional character, Jason, from the Friday the 13th movie series. It is noteworthy that there is a significant positive correlation with the self-made media celebrity John Mark Karr and with the fictional character, Kia, of Jack Osborne's novella, BLOOD RED: Genesis of a Psychopath.[27]

The detailed graphics and correlations charts remain for others to do their own analyses.
************
Editor: One thing that remains unaddressed, at least from a layperson's view (i.e., the people who will be reading this), is whether Casey murdered her daughter, as opposed to an accident or giving her to someone. While that is a pretty risky speculation, one could couch it, along with how she may have carried "it" out, in probabilities. Anyway, just a thought. What do you think?

Russell: Keeping in mind that this is pure speculation, the current findings certainly indicate that Casey is lying, and the current evidence as reported by LE indicates that Caylee is dead. We know that Casey engaged in high risk behaviors (e.g., alcohol and other substance abuse) and that she exposed Caylee to related high risk situations, such as allowing her to sleep in the same bed as she and her boyfriend(s). We also know that Casey is an exceptionally self-centered person who would be jealous of losing any attention to Caylee and who would begrudge the time and attention she had to provide Caylee. Unfortunately, I can imagine quite a few scenarios based on these general factors. Actually, until LE reported evidence of Caylee's death, I suspected an elaborate hoax by the Anthony family to defraud the public for monetary gains. I am still not convinced that it is not such a hoax that somehow got out of hand. For example, perhaps a staged kidnapping went bad when Casey got drunk and left Caylee in the trunk too long. Perhaps Casey simply left Caylee in a hot car too long while partying or passed-out. Given Casey's lifestyle and Caylee's exposure to it, I have no doubt that Caylee attracted the attention of pedophiles. There are any number of scenarios in which Caylee could have died at the hands of one or more pedophiles, and some related speculations will not be detailed here. Of course, there are some rather strange family dynamics that could lead most anywhere. Finally, given Casey's remarkably poor judgment and the level of self-centered anger she expressed in some of her phone calls, Caylee's death may have been a matter of a drunken Casey going into a narcissistic rage or simply deciding to make her own life easier.
************
All my personal opinions,
Russell
 
Give that to the jurors to read, or try to explain the fine points with the jurors...You'll lose them. KC is just an extremely obnoxious, spoiled brat is the thing most people understand immediately. From what I did gather from the characteristical findings for KC, she is prone to all these regardless why. As a juror, I am not there to "understand" KC, but to determine who killed Caylee and what evidence supports that.

From the article:
"She correlates positively with secretive, manipulative types such as Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy and Dennis Lynn Rader, but not with Joel Rifkin (Asperger's Disorder), Edmund Kemper III, or the sophisticated Dr. Hannibal Lecter." IMHO, I just feel KC took it to the limit just like so many who have done evil, evil acts."

That's enough for me. I'd like this person behind bars please.
 
~Snipped~ for space


************
Editor: One thing that remains unaddressed, at least from a layperson's view (i.e., the people who will be reading this), is whether Casey murdered her daughter, as opposed to an accident or giving her to someone. While that is a pretty risky speculation, one could couch it, along with how she may have carried "it" out, in probabilities. Anyway, just a thought. What do you think?

Russell: Keeping in mind that this is pure speculation, the current findings certainly indicate that Casey is lying, and the current evidence as reported by LE indicates that Caylee is dead. We know that Casey engaged in high risk behaviors (e.g., alcohol and other substance abuse) and that she exposed Caylee to related high risk situations, such as allowing her to sleep in the same bed as she and her boyfriend(s). We also know that Casey is an exceptionally self-centered person who would be jealous of losing any attention to Caylee and who would begrudge the time and attention she had to provide Caylee. Unfortunately, I can imagine quite a few scenarios based on these general factors. Actually, until LE reported evidence of Caylee's death, I suspected an elaborate hoax by the Anthony family to defraud the public for monetary gains. I am still not convinced that it is not such a hoax that somehow got out of hand. For example, perhaps a staged kidnapping went bad when Casey got drunk and left Caylee in the trunk too long. Perhaps Casey simply left Caylee in a hot car too long while partying or passed-out. Given Casey's lifestyle and Caylee's exposure to it, I have no doubt that Caylee attracted the attention of pedophiles. There are any number of scenarios in which Caylee could have died at the hands of one or more pedophiles, and some related speculations will not be detailed here. Of course, there are some rather strange family dynamics that could lead most anywhere. Finally, given Casey's remarkably poor judgment and the level of self-centered anger she expressed in some of her phone calls, Caylee's death may have been a matter of a drunken Casey going into a narcissistic rage or simply deciding to make her own life easier.
************
All my personal opinions,
Russell

As always, thanks for sharing! I kept what I wanted to talk about and snipped the rest for space.

I never noticed the editorial discussion at the end, Russell, and I just gotta tell you I felt both of my eyebrows raise as I read your thoughts on the possiblility it could have started out as a hoax by the lot of 'em. They are a sick bunch. I am still not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey is the murdering "bad guy" of the family- IMO they each share so many of the same characteristics.. and so many of Casey's behaviors are learned behaviors.

I soooo wish you'd whip us up a family profile! :angel:
 
Give that to the jurors to read, or try to explain the fine points with the jurors...You'll lose them. KC is just an extremely obnoxious, spoiled brat is the thing most people understand immediately. From what I did gather from the characteristical findings for KC, she is prone to all these regardless why. As a juror, I am not there to "understand" KC, but to determine who killed Caylee and what evidence supports that.

From the article:
"She correlates positively with secretive, manipulative types such as Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy and Dennis Lynn Rader, but not with Joel Rifkin (Asperger's Disorder), Edmund Kemper III, or the sophisticated Dr. Hannibal Lecter." IMHO, I just feel KC took it to the limit just like so many who have done evil, evil acts."

That's enough for me. I'd like this person behind bars please.

Ahh, but this is a man who's job is has been to evaluate people and go to court and help decide if a person is to be held criminally accountable for their crimes or if their "mental illness" kept them from knowing right from wrong.

Everyone keeps talking about Casey and mental illness.. everyone! That's much of what we talk about in this case- "Was she depressed?", "PPD or PPP" "Does she have Bipolar?", "Is she a psychopath or does she have another personality disorder?", "was she psychotic?" It's all we talk about- we do want to understand her IMO and what this man right here has to say answers much of that for us, imo.
 
I don't know if I have to be vetted as an expert VA patient or ex criminal. The following can be taken from an experienced amateur. My opinions on the BPD chatter are based on having been diagnosed as such a couple years ago. Like it or not, mental illness has a huge stigma attached to it. I never had too much a problem admitting to having a criminal record or being an ex-junkie BUT it took me a long time to be able to admit to someone I was receiving treatment for a mental illness. Both me mum and little brother were life-long nurses who felt psychology was akin to shamanism and its practitioners as witch doctors. Who knows how CA feels about them but I doubt she would want anyone thinking her perfect daughter could need mental help. I had doubts and misgivings about the validity of psych treatment myself but the proof is in the pudding. Sticking to meds, therapy and twice a month visits to the VAMC Pittsburgh's PTSD clinic has helped me get multiple years free from hard drugs, the longest length in me life since first using. My other comment is about being sentenced by a judge. Again, I do not claim expert but it is above novice level, sad to say. The court did not care much about VA mental diagnosis. They did take military service into account and were pretty lenient, all things considered. The biggest factor was me admitting culpability and a lawyer who worked with the DA and judge to get a sentence everyone could claim a "win", whatever that is. Please keep in mind this was in SW Pennsylvania. Your results may differ, adjusting the recipe for high altitudes is recommended.

hug.jpg


ITA, nobody ever cared that I have Bipolar.. it got me plenty of court ordered psych evals and some civil holds on locked wards but unless you are out of touch with reality and do not know right from wrong there is no excuse for our poor choices except that we made poor choices!
 
Casey Anthony’s BRACE Character Profile may provide some answers. This link works with Foxfire, not Internet Explorer.

http://crimsonshadows.net/articles-...ng-mainmenu-140/168-profiling-casey?showall=1

Russell

Knot4u2no - Thank You for introducing the BRACE Character Profile. I've never seen one before and found it fascinating. It's written in fairly basic wording, but even so I could feel my poor old brain scraping and screeching along while absorbing the concepts.
What did you think of one of the informal conclusions that Casey may have done this in a drunken temper?

I haven't actually thought of Casey as a heavy drinker - more of bingeing with her friends at party times.
 
Ahh, but this is a man who's job is has been to evaluate people and go to court and help decide if a person is to be held criminally accountable for their crimes or if their "mental illness" kept them from knowing right from wrong.

Everyone keeps talking about Casey and mental illness.. everyone! That's much of what we talk about in this case- "Was she depressed?", "PPD or PPP" "Does she have Bipolar?", "Is she a psychopath or does she have another personality disorder?", "was she psychotic?" It's all we talk about- we do want to understand her IMO and what this man right here has to say answers much of that for us, imo.

I absolutely agree Curious and OneLostGirl, but I think we're getting lost in our trying to understand the big "WHY"- at least I am - why would a young woman who appears to have lots of support, and every opportunity to make a life for herself and her child do this terrible thing? Why kill this beautiful child - WHY? And if we understand what she had - such as did she have PPD, or a psychopath or whatever- then we would be able to make some sense of this heinous crime.

I'm staying in that place that believes - she may be or may have whatever, but there are no excuses or mitigating factors that give you a get out of jail early for killing your child. Particularly this WASP female from Orlando.
 
I absolutely agree Curious and OneLostGirl, but I think we're getting lost in our trying to understand the big "WHY"- at least I am - why would a young woman who appears to have lots of support, and every opportunity to make a life for herself and her child do this terrible thing? Why kill this beautiful child - WHY? And if we understand what she had - such as did she have PPD, or a psychopath or whatever- then we would be able to make some sense of this heinous crime.

I'm staying in that place that believes - she may be or may have whatever, but there are no excuses or mitigating factors that give you a get out of jail early for killing your child. Particularly this WASP female from Orlando.

I'm staying there too- I have no doubt in my mind that she has at least one, probably more than one personality disorders. lol I haven't even moved to "I'm sure she's guilty" yet!
 
Ahh, but this is a man who's job is has been to evaluate people and go to court and help decide if a person is to be held criminally accountable for their crimes or if their "mental illness" kept them from knowing right from wrong.

Everyone keeps talking about Casey and mental illness.. everyone! That's much of what we talk about in this case- "Was she depressed?", "PPD or PPP" "Does she have Bipolar?", "Is she a psychopath or does she have another personality disorder?", "was she psychotic?" It's all we talk about- we do want to understand her IMO and what this man right here has to say answers much of that for us, imo.


The article is very informative and I think what this expert is saying is encouraging that KC is able to be held accountable, if other evidence shows that she was, in fact, the one that killed Caylee.

I've been on this forum awhile talking about this too. What I was trying to drive home was that the jury is not going to be made up of people who want to hear a bunch of psychology to decide why without first looking at the who and what of the crime. People have strong reactions in their gut to Casey being an unsympathic character that in turn makes one feel unsympathic to her. Learned behavior is not a term that's going to get that much consideration or sympathy, IMO.

JMO, a Personality Disorder such as Narcissist Personality Disorder is not a "Mental Illness". The way I read it KC has all the characteristics of someone with a cognitive problem maybe ADHD and some personality disorder or two, but KC is not mentally ill. She's competent to be held criminally accountable. So, it's good to have an expert clear that up for the jurors. As far as I know, the Defense team was not going that route anyways.

Looking ahead to when that panel of jurors are in deliberation, I wonder if they, too, will get caught up in all the psychology of why or will they be more concerned with other things like the evidence such as the duct tape, the timing, the smelly car, and so on. What do you think?

My eyes are worn out and that was a long article. I may have misread the meaning, and please feel free to point that out if so.



From the BRACE article:
"Based on her BRACE Character Profile, Casey Anthony is self-centered, self-justifying and self-promotional. It is all learned behavior, but there appears to be some type of memory dysfunction, not a matter of not knowing the difference between the truth and a lie, but rather not caring or not expecting to be caught or held responsible, perhaps aided by episodes of acute substance abuse. There is a semblance of confabulation and indifference to others or the truth, but there is something else.

There is an intentional quality to her indifference, a deliberate manipulation of others, a calculated purpose that affords her some type of personal reinforcement. Perhaps media coverage, perhaps the fame and fortune some are trying to cultivate through her, perhaps.


I take this above bolded section to mean that yes she knows exactly what she's doing, and is using it as a way to shine despite the crime. Pitiful.
 
All very well expressed CuriousMe, thank you for that. I have sympathy and a huge amount of admiration for those who struggle with mental illness - my own family is awash with it.

So you've said what I wanted to express, but much more clearly. I appreciate that Casey has one or more mental disorders, and they've been aggravated by her family profile - that much I feel sympathy for.

But, and it's a big but, it doesn't affect one iota of what I feel her sentence should be when she is found guilty by a jury.
 
logicalgirl, thanks. I think you express yourself very well. Sorry you were exposed to so much with your family. Sharing and talking about this helps us all.

I think the only good thing that has come out of the investigation of these cases by the general population is that we have all become more aware of the need to identify mental conditions and personality disorders, and when possible provide help. Many of us have struggled with dealing with people that did not seem mentally ill, but had a personality disorder we couldn't pinpoint.

Of particular interest to me is Narcissism because I believe for some reason there is more of it in our society than ever before. It is not considered a mental illness, but a personality disorder. Maglignant narcissism is hard to treat, almost impossible to "cure" or control.

Most of us that are faced with someone like Casey do not have the psychological background to even name it or understand what's going on, and most of us are not trained to help them. The family and friends of a true malignant narcissist eventually have to give up on that person and not let them close because they bring damage to your life. I see the start of that in Casey's life where many of her old friends had been burned by her and weren't close friends with her anymore. She had to move on to new people, or victims to put it bluntly.

The Nuture versus Nature question, what came first the chicken or the egg, will probably be eventually somewhat answered by Science in the study of the brain. I wonder if Science proves it is purely a brain abnormality what that will mean. At this point, I do feel the narcissist is trapped in their own disordered personality and there's no way to help them, but I also believe they are still enough in control of their actions and do know right from wrong so they must be held accountable.

Yes, I actually do feel sympathy for someone with NPD, but you can bet I will deem myself untrained to help, and probably keep the person out of my life. It sounds so cold, I know, but people like Casey's grandmother Shirley might have felt that way too, after Casey selfishly stole Grandpa's nursing home money. I urge any family member or friend that is struggling to help a malignant narcissist to examine whether you have the training to deal with this problem, and if not to get yourself further information that might help you keep your own sanity because you are in for a wild ride.
 
Maybe, but not sure what you mean by KC would lie and have a way out because:

1. She took money from her grandmother's account and had no way out.
2. She took money from her grandfather's SS account that paid for the nursing home and had no way out.
3. She claimed she was not pregnant..certainly was no way out of that one that she utilized.
4. She claimed she worked at Universal, no way out of that one.
5. Lied about attending college, no way out of that one either.
6. etc., etc., etc. and I could go on all night.

I have yet to see where KC actually lied and had a way out. She may have, I just don't think we have seen any type of thought process in terms of the grand scheme of plans she may have had. There was NOTHING planned for her future and worse because KC even stole money from her daughter's piggy bank, KC had no plans for her daughter either. jmo

She had a permanent 'way out' with GA and CA though- neither had the backbone to deal with what they knew were terrible character problems in their daughter- ignore it and it will go away. No wonder she despises them.
 
She had a permanent 'way out' with GA and CA though- neither had the backbone to deal with what they knew were terrible character problems in their daughter- ignore it and it will go away. No wonder she despises them.

It is so dangerous to put your head in the sand when a developing offspring shows clearly that they will get what they want including from the old & frail(Grandparents) or the young and helpless( Caylee) It is the parents responsibility to make sure wrong & right is learned & practiced by your child.This has to be imprinted even if punishment for wrong is the necessary
result!
 
It is so dangerous to put your head in the sand when a developing offspring shows clearly that they will get what they want including from the old & frail(Grandparents) or the young and helpless( Caylee) It is the parents responsibility to make sure wrong & right is learned & practiced by your child.This has to be imprinted even if punishment for wrong is the necessary
result!


I wonder how old Casey was when she started showing the traits of a sociopath? Was she a child...teenager...or around the time she had Caylee?
How long has she been telling tales like she does when she can look the other person right in the eyes and not even blink.? When did all of this behavior begin?

Most kids wouldn't even think of stealing from their grandparents. Well, a drug addict would because they have to have money for their drugs regardless how they get it. If it takes robbing gramma and grandpa...oh well. Their first love is the drug. Otherwise it's hard to believe a grandchild would steal from gramma and grandpa. I wonder if she had a close relationship with her grandparents. Somehow I don't think that she did.

If this behavior began when Casey was young I don't think it would have helped her to take her to a therapist. There is no way to help a sociopath. They are born without a conscience and without that they can't be helped.

We can see though that Cindy just ran after Casey paying back money she would steal and covering for her. Regardless of what Casey did I think Cindy was always behind her cleaning up the mess. Thank God this is one mess that mama can't cover up...pay off or anything else. Her and George are trying their best to convinve people that Casey didn't do it and that is about all they can do. I wonder why they keep trying when she won't even see them and hasn't for a year or more.
 
Looking at the A family from this point in time, a year and a half + later, certainly does give one a clearer picture of what likely went on in that household.

Just read through this whole thread.....very interesting and some very informative links. For some reason I started thinking about the conversation that CA had with Ryan P. Her calling him and telling him to stay away from KC as KC was a sociopath and CA didn't want RP to get hurt. Then my next thought was of CA telling AL that she hoped AL had a lot of money b/c KC would clean him out and then leave him high and dry. Thinking about these conversations now, it got me to wondering a couple of things.

Such as:
#!--Why would CA tell RP that unless KC had had a "romantic" relationship with him at some point? Or maybe even an ongoing off and on one. I am wondering if RP knows a lot more about KC/the family, than we've read about so far. After all, he is the one boy who had many family meals with the A's, spent a good amount of time around the family, and he is the one that GA said he would be glad to see KC end up with. And they have known each other since what.....elementary or middle school? A long time.

#2--She tells TL the first time she meets him that KC will burn him basically.....so did CA know KC had a long history of this with "boyfriends"?

In the links OLG posted one of them talks about the damage it can do to a child growing up under the thumb of a narcissistic mother. And how it causes even further damage when the father, who is in a position to protect, does not protect but instead allows the emotional abuse (and possibly physical also) to happen, the info is that it does even further damage to the child. It's like a double whammy to the child's pysche. So KC was probably born with the hard wiring to begin with, but the mother/father dynamic in that household is probably what lit the fuse to the hard wiring KC was born with. The phrase in the article that hit me like a two by four was that growing up in that kind of environment can cause "soul murder". I have my own reasons for that phrase catching my attention but we will stick to KC.

So was CA aware of KC's habit of using people, boyfriends in particular (but also girlfriends), yet CA refused to acknowledge any kind of destructive pattern.....any kind of mental illness? I think so. I believe as a nurse she did know she had a disturbed daughter but she choose to ignore it as it would have busted the illusion she had worked so hard to create of the "perfect family". IMO I believe KC to be a psychopath but I know many have diagnosed her as a sociopath or an ASP. However we are allowed to have differences of opinion here thank goodness.

And where was LA in this family dynamic? Was he the "forgotten" child who secretly hated his sister for all the attention(bad or good) she got from the parents and all the dirty deeds she got away with? I wonder if LA's dark period during his teen years we've heard CA talk about was due to living with a psycho sister like KC and parents that ignored his existence. He has to be carrying around a lot of "soul" damage himself IMO. And IMO, only cutting ties with his parents and KC for a period of time, while he heals/finds some kind of treatment will restore some of what he lost/endured growing up in that house.

It's just amazing looking back since all this time has gone by to see how differently things look at this juncture.


See OLG's post that I forgot to quote in this post but quoted below. Thanks.

Also, looking back now, after a year and a half plus has gone by, one can really see just how far off the mark of normal CA esp was for a grandmother who lead us to believe she had a missing/(most likely dead grand daughter to the rest of us)......I mean.....right off the top of my head, I can't recall seeing any real breakdown of tears/bawling, losing it, as one would expect of a grandmother who was in that situation. I am thinking that both of these grand parents were well aware that Caylee was dead early on and choose to deceive the world.....they deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law IMO. And I am hoping that all in good time, they will be. MOO

:cow:
 
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