Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[radio]

See, I don't see them as the same in any way other than her having a couple of the same traits as Bipolar (moods, sleeping around, shopping, partying) but nothing else about the illnesses even match up. People with these disorders deal with delusions, hallucinations, depression, suicidal ideation.. they are in a fight for their LIFE.. People with personality disorders are in a fight for control.

What I was saying was that each member in a family unit is different from any member of another family unit..... different children, spouses....that kind of stuff and with different personalities comes different reactions, etc.

One family may cope one way. Another family another way and then children within the same unit can each react in different ways. So the dynamic is always changing. The individual with the disorder will even react to the disorder somewhat and sometimes in some ways like the way they are being reacted to - which can be a myraid of reactions lol.

I am speaking to family structure more than the individual I guess.

 

[indicat]

What a lot of people see in Cindy as a caretaker, supporting the whole family, that all comes at a cost. She does not do these things out of the kindness of her heart, it comes across that way but in reality it is all about ownership and manipulation. There are strings attatched to everything she does for you. I know people like this and to outsiders it looks like they are just great people, taking everything on, the reality is so much different.

 

[radio]

What a lot of people see in Cindy as a caretaker, supporting the whole family, that all comes at a cost. She does not do these things out of the kindness of her heart, it comes across that way but in reality it is all about ownership and manipulation. There are strings attatched to everything she does for you. I know people like this and to outsiders it looks like they are just great people, taking everything on, the reality is so much different.

The joy or curse of each family lies within the leadership from within that it has.

If Cindy is as you all think .... then the result is what it is.

I see these people to be only as sick as their secrets. Whatever they may be.

 

[reeseeva]

I agree.. Scary chit!

I don't understand all the hoopla over her faces & anguish in the tape. I know plenty of people who have tempers & make faces/fists over getting their point across, expressing their frustrations........And, they certainly aren't capable of murder!

Who among us does not know people who literally have put their fist thru a wall or something similar, under extreme circumstances? I just don't feel this is relative to her "instantly" being guilty?

It's the quiet ones that don't show emotions, that frighten me....the passive aggressive ones!

 

[kiki the parrot]

ITA.

I was raised by a mentally ill parent and I'm hypersensitive to both the symptoms as well as the reactions from others. When I watch those jailhouse visits I see myself in Cindy. When she asks KC to look at her eyes while talking and says, "You know I need you to do that, honey." And notice that KC bursts into tears when her mother asks her to do that.
:boohoo:
This is a mother who knows her daughter's illness. When she asks KC, "Are we gonna see her again ya think, Case?" And KC says, "I hope to God that we do." CA pleads with KC in a hopeless tone of voice, "Casey." Because she knows her daughter isn't being honest. In her tone of voice I hear myself pleading with my mentally ill person to open up and tell me what's going on in their head. Watch the video and imagine yourself as CA, knowing your daughter is lying and just wishing she could tell the truth.
:shakehead:
Casey doesn't get along with her mother and fights with her often because her mother is the one person who will call her on the lies and deceptions. She's always challenged her, encouraged her to try therapy, possibly tried to get her help. But if the ill person doesn't want to be helped, if the ill person doesn't believe there's anything wrong with them, anyone who keeps telling them they need help goes on the $hit list.

And I think this is why CA has protected KC the way she has. She knows KC is a psychopath or whatever her diagnosis might be. She protects her because she knows KC can't help the way she is. I won't be one bit surprised if the defense tries to pull an insanity plea.

(bold mine) I agree w you that CA is by this point reduced to pleading w her deceptive, blameshifting, self-centered daughter in utter desperation for any useful info, knowing as you say that KC is lying yet walking on eggshells while grasping for any shred of hope. Her only fear greater than altogether infuriating and losing contact w KC at that moment had to be her fear of actually learning the truth. Despite recognizing the narcissistic generational pattern of their sick relationship, it's never been hard at all for me to identify w CA--if anything I overidentify since I have a daughter and granddaughter the same ages. Where your interpretation and mine differ is that I can't quite perceive CA as simply another of KC's blameless, helpless victims. While I'm certain she never dreamed the cost of all those years of enablement or permissiveness would be so high, in a very real sense she is by definition also reaping--the bad fruit and bitter harvest of those failures--and reaping bigtime. I agree CA seems at least more willing than GA to endure KC's volatility and remains focused. But the tragic reality is that CA has never in 22 years ever before been willing to truly "challenge," to confront or hold her daughter accountable. Any more than she ever sought any type of help that we're aware of. And I agree that CA has also tried to protect her daughter but sacrificing your innocent grandchild--her location if not conceivably at that point her life--for your culpable child isn't sympathetic to me and can't even be excused as denial--but rather is more collusion and failure still on their part to ever hold KC accountable. Whether KC is evil and a psychopath, or sick and mentally ill, remains unanswered (a distinction in this case, and subject of generally great interest to me), but it can be only one--or the other. JMHUO

Yes, Nancy....you are good. Thanks for the PICS. Good work... WoW!.

Same pathologies..you will see similar traits.

The only difference with these two is SP is educated, brighter and was able to have a plan with his crime. KC lives in the moment, can't plan well and does not have the IQ of Scott. Otherwise, their are alike. Both have adoring mothers who fight to the finish. Fathers take a back seat. Lee did not even go to courtroom for sentencing.

So far, Cindy seems to have a lot more issues than Jackie. We didn't get to know Jackie, though, like we got to know Cindy. I did have an opportunity to speak with Jackie once. She was gracious and very kind. Cindy is a little rough (?) around the edges...uhm. :whistle:

(bold mine) While less educated, I don't believe KC is unintelligent. And I'm not convinced she is quite in SP's league or even the same category IMO. There's no question we're obviously looking at two deceptive people w phony smiles. What I also find significant is that narcissism is shown to be the "common denominator" among all the personality disorders (and could be the ever-present trait that is responsible for their similar image-conscious courtroom demeanors or which allows these two to resemble one another, we are looking at two clearly forced or painted on smiles, but other than that reveals little about their respective diagnoses or pathologies. Certainly though most here have already come to similarly label or attribute motive). Btw it's very surprising to hear your impression of JP who's always given me chills, whereas CA just irritates me. JMHUO

 

[radio]

Not everyone from a disordered parent suffers. Sometimes some of the best of you actually comes from that parent and with the help of the other parent and family ... you do great.

I'm a little hyper.

But I haven't hit the secret manic button yet for the launch.

I have always been very proud of my mother. I'm sure that is due to the great work my father, maternal grandmother and paternal aunt and uncle did.

 

[radio]

I don't understand all the hoopla over her faces & anguish in the tape. I know plenty of people who have tempers & make faces/fists over getting their point across, expressing their frustrations........And, they certainly aren't capable of murder!

Who among us does not know people who literally have put their fist thru a wall or something similar, under extreme circumstances? I just don't feel this is relative to her "instantly" being guilty?

It's the quiet ones that don't show emotions, that frighten me....the passive aggressive ones!

ree,

I agree with why all the hoopla!! Anyone of us put into frames could look the same - happy, sad, irritated, mad ...pffftt

Apparently this was a ship without a rudder. jmo

 

[indicat]

Casey doesn't get along with her mother and fights with her often because her mother is the one person who will call her on the lies and deceptions. She's always challenged her, encouraged her to try therapy, possibly tried to get her help. But if the ill person doesn't want to be helped, if the ill person doesn't believe there's anything wrong with them, anyone who keeps telling them they need help goes on the $hit list.

And I think this is why CA has protected KC the way she has. She knows KC is a psychopath or whatever her diagnosis might be. She protects her because she knows KC can't help the way she is. I won't be one bit surprised if the defense tries to pull an insanity plea.

See I completly disagree with this. CA does not call KC out on anything, and she has not helped her at all she has enabled her. I see people refer back to the first phone call from the jail when KC says you dont know what my involvement is? as a way to clue CA in, well it was a clue a clue to put CA back in her place and feel the guilt, and guess what, it worked. I have seen numerous times after the initial 911 call for CA to call KC out on her lies and she goes the other way. There are some really good posts on this topic in this thread. They describe CA's personality to a T.

 

[debs]

yep


between what was inhirited and what was learned and reinforced.....YIKES!!!

A frustrated and angry Casey (above), an angry and frustrated George, Casey seconds later (still yelling at her parents), and George seconds later (hosing down protesters).

 

[radio]

See I completly disagree with this. CA does not call KC out on anything, and she has not helped her at all she has enabled her. I see people refer back to the first phone call from the jail when KC says you dont know what my involvement is? as a way to clue CA in, well it was a clue a clue to put CA back in her place and feel the guilt, and guess what, it worked. I have seen numerous times after the initial 911 call for CA to call KC out on her lies and she goes the other way. There are some really good posts on this topic in this thread. They describe CA's personality to a T.

And having described CA's personality to a T - where does this take us? It is extremely interesting to discuss to be sure. And many wonderful posts have been written here. Much has been learned here and if nothing else - it has been a wonderful teacher and possibly a pretty darn good therapist for many too. Excellent teachers here for sure. :thumb:

 

[indicat]

I don't understand all the hoopla over her faces & anguish in the tape. I know plenty of people who have tempers & make faces/fists over getting their point across, expressing their frustrations........And, they certainly aren't capable of murder!

Who among us does not know people who literally have put their fist thru a wall or something similar, under extreme circumstances? I just don't feel this is relative to her "instantly" being guilty?

It's the quiet ones that don't show emotions, that frighten me....the passive aggressive ones!

Except none of us have missing children, her anger is so misdirected given the circumstances. Other people have posted a lot better then I about this, but in her case (which is not a normal case) her expressions of emotion are peculiar.

 

[indicat]

And having described CA's personality to a T - where does this take us? It is extremely interesting to discuss to be sure. And many wonderful posts have been written here. Much has been learned here and if nothing else - it has been a wonderful teacher and possibly a pretty darn good therapist for many too. Excellent teachers here for sure. :thumb:

In my opinion it helps us to spot this behavior in our own lives, and is great topic for psychology books. And everything else you mentioned.

 

[radio]

In my opinion it helps us to spot this behavior in our own lives, and is great topic for psychology books.

Yeah - I agree with that big time. Thats why I posted this thread is an excellent teacher and probably a pretty darn good therapist for many.

This is a good thing - just think how many people in this world have no idea they can be helped. maybe they read the excellent posts and response posts here and a light bulb goes off for them!!!
:blowkiss:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Yes, IMO they know that Casey is just claiming she's getting sick to get sympathy and turn her parents' attention away from asking questions. They don't take the bait but are still on pins and needles trying to get information without making her so mad that she hangs up. That's what I see anyway. But there is something weird about GA. CA is more obvious in her mood swings and on-camera demands to the public but some people seem to excuse GA and let him off the hook for the dysfunction in the family. IMO he's right in the thick of things. I can't figure out what his game is but something is there IMO.

It's simple. KC becomes volatile and reacts w anger to bully her parents when she wants to shut them up and keep CA from asking the tough questions. JMO

It is a danse macabre they have danced repeatedly throughout their enmeshed relationship. Cindy and George knew exactly what would happen if they used the "we're suffering" line. It's gone on before.

Casey does something bad
There is a fight with Cindy because she's the one who always handles the first round
Casey plays victim, how mean they're being to her
Cindy goes on the attack, George attempts to placate, and Lee just wants answers.
Casey verbally beats down and then ignores Cindy who has gone into suffering martyrdom, shuts down Lee and sucks up to George because he'll be the most passive path to getting what she wants.
Casey gets what she wants

and the cycle goes on.

(bold mine) Emphasis on, "KC gets what she wants!"

Their dysfunction created that monster! Cindy taught her everything she knows! How can you say Cindy "calls her on her lies and deceptions" when we know that is NOT the case? That's a big part of the problem here- nobody ever called her on ... they lied for her, covered it up, took money out of their bank account to cover the money she stole from her grandparents.. They did NOTHING when she stole $4,000 of theirs and claimed she was robbed with a gun to her head.

They knew she didn't have a job (they both admitted they "had a feeling"- yeah like George's feeling there was a dead body in the car) for the last 2 years yet they let her carry on as if she did, pretending right along with her (just as they are pretending right along with her that Caylee was kidnapped by ZG)! She ran up the cell phone bills, stole money from Lee and his friends. Nobody did anything- nobody called her on it, nobody was a parent to that girl- EVER!! They just let her do as she wished then called her names and belittled her as they covered for her. Even in that video Cindy continues to invalidate everything Casey says she feels (though I agree with her that Casey's lying- It is a good example of how Casey is TOLD what she is feeling. and we know it's not new behavior for Cindy because while Casey was clearly frustrated she even says that is why she didn't want to talk to her mother)

Nope- sorry, I understand way too much about mothers like Cindy... She taught her daughter how to behave not only by example but by doing nothing about Casey's behavior all these years. Cindy is just as sick if not sicker than Casey but I assure you, both CHOOSE their behaviors and neither one of them are even close to being insane. No way an insanity defense will even make it into the courtroom!

Say that One... one more time lol.

Have you ever lived with a schizophrenic? My opinion is based on experience. All I'm saying is I can totally see how mental illness in that family could have led to the behavior of everyone in that house. All of the burden was on Cindy to try and keep the family together. With 2 mentally ill people (KC and GA) in the house I can only imagine how much harder it was for Cindy. Lee probably couldn't deal at all and that's why he seems sort of detached and is not close to his father.

Like I said in another post, if a mentally ill person doesn't want help or believe there's anything wrong with them, all the family can do is get by the best they can. My family has been doing just that for 30+ years.

June 2008 could very well have been KC's first real "breakdown." Psychoaffective disorders are cyclical, and the patient suffers an "attack" where they have a break with reality. KC is 22 years old, an age where a disorder like this would be diagnosed. She may have been lying for years and behaving strangely, but it was all coming to a head in June.

(bold mine) We can't just give everyone a pass here! And what is GA's "mental illness?" Omg he's the only one who has a prayer! JMO

ree,

I agree with why all the hoopla!! Anyone of us put into frames could look the same - happy, sad, irritated, mad ...pffftt

Apparently this was a ship without a rudder. jmo

(bold mine) Agree 100% w bolded. Lolol!

See I completly disagree with this. CA does not call KC out on anything, and she has not helped her at all she has enabled her. I see people refer back to the first phone call from the jail when KC says you dont know what my involvement is? as a way to clue CA in, well it was a clue a clue to put CA back in her place and feel the guilt, and guess what, it worked. I have seen numerous times after the initial 911 call for CA to call KC out on her lies and she goes the other way. There are some really good posts on this topic in this thread. They describe CA's personality to a T.

Amen. And amen! JMO2!!

 

[kiki the parrot]

And having described CA's personality to a T - where does this take us? It is extremely interesting to discuss to be sure. And many wonderful posts have been written here. Much has been learned here and if nothing else - it has been a wonderful teacher and possibly a pretty darn good therapist for many too. Excellent teachers here for sure. :thumb:

Well, at the very least one can hope it might begin to dispel the myth that those like KC were all simply "born that way....."
(Where's a lightbulb icon when you need it lol?) JMO!

 

[radio]

Well, at the very least one can hope it might begin to dispel the myth that those like KC were all simply "born that way....."
(Where's a lightbulb icon when you need it lol?) JMO!

Lets hope so.
:sleuth:
:wave:

 

[Theonly1]

[(bold mine) We can't just give everyone a pass here! And what is GA's "mental illness?" JMO

!![/COLOR]

Conspicuous consumption of A Family Kool-Aid?

 

[debs]

And lest we forget, because afterall it IS all about Casey: Whatever the sick dynamic between George and Cindy, whatever personality twists they bring to their daughter, what Casey does to compensate, to get through it, to adjust, to cope is diabolical, destructive, poisonous. Whether she ever thought it was going to be her goal or not, she is successfully destroying the foundation from whence she came.

ETA: I think she got a lot frustrated at her folks for not seeing to what level she had to go in order to accomplish this goal. In my head, I could imagine her saying to herself "Holy smokes, folks! What MORE do I have to DO to get through to you?????"

Of course, I often wax hyperbolic.

 

[radio]

And lest we forget, because afterall it IS all about Casey: Whatever the sick dynamic between George and Cindy, whatever personality twists they bring to their daughter, what Casey does to compensate, to get through it, to adjust, to cope is diabolical, destructive, poisonous. Whether she ever thought it was going to be her goal or not, she is successfully destroying the foundation from whence she came.

ETA: I think she got a lot frustrated at her folks for not seeing to what level she had to go in order to accomplish this goal. In my head, I could imagine her saying to herself "Holy smokes, folks! What MORE do I have to DO to get through to you?????"

Of course, I often wax hyperbolic. NO!:crazy:

:wave:

This isn't 1750 or the Middle Ages ..... they had choices, resources, etc... yada, yada.

 

[elissabee]

(bold mine) We can't just give everyone a pass here! And what is GA's "mental illness?" Omg he's the only one who has a prayer! JMO

I am not giving anybody a pass here. I'm saying within that family, George seems to get a pass. KC would rather talk to George, rather see George, because she can't talk to her mother. Her mother gets angry and defensive, but George is Mr. Cool to Casey. All the blame gets put on Cindy when Casey gets upset.

From reading the emails between Cindy's brother and mother, it sounds like he's had a ton of problems including spending/gambling addiction and he can't hold down a job. Cindy's brother calls him a "loser" and says he ruined his sister's life. Coupled with the supposed "sicknes" in George's family, it sounds like he's a guy not without issues.

Please remember, this is my theory. Everybody's got one, right?