Casey & Family Psychological Profile #4

[reeseeva]

The biggist clue for me is they have an uncanny ability to twist others words and actions to fit their agenda and come out looking like a victim to people who do not know them. Outsiders consistently feel bad for them, and often believe the aflicted persons loved ones are selfish.

WOW, How many people know this?? And, how many lives will be dismantled before they are like the Nexus 6, confined to another planet? Androids in relation to Humans still left with Feelings?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I am a little uncomfortable with seeing KC and environment (familial, cultural, etc) as a sign of the times. What we have now is greater communication and exchange of knowledge (between states, disciplines, social strata). Example: late sixities and beyond: bring on male serial killers (Bundy, Manson, Gacy, Dahmer, et al, and forbears). How can that be connected to a sign of the times? There were historical predecessors. It is only fairly recently that so many child-killers, murderers, etc. who are women have got so much attention. This is not to say it did not happen before; it did, I believe, and current papers are being written. It coincides with male violence. The secret is in social mythology and presumptions (a mom would not do that) that it is better hidden or passed off, not change per se.

I don't want to go off topic and get another T/O but I thought I'd share this as I think it says much.

"The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings, but shorter tempers; wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints; we spend more, but have less; we buy more, but enjoy it less.

We have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, but less time; we have more degrees, but less sense; more knowledge, but less judgment; more experts, but more problems; more medicine, but less wellness.

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get angry too quickly, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too seldom, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.

We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often. We've learned how to make a living, but not a life; we've added years to life, not life to years.

We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbor. We've conquered outer space, but not inner space; we've done larger things, but not better things.

We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul; we've split the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less; we plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to wait; we have higher incomes, but lower morals; we have more food, but less appeasement; we build more computers to hold more information to produce more copies than ever, but have less communication; we've become long on quantity, but short on quality.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion; tall men, and short character; steep profits, and shallow relationships. These are the times of world peace, but domestic warfare; more leisure, but less fun; more kinds of food, but less nutrition. These are days of two incomes, but more divorce; of fancier houses, but broken homes.

These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throw away morality, one-night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer to quiet to kill.

It is a time when there is much in the show window and nothing in the stockroom; a time when technology has brought this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to make a difference, or to just hit 'Skip Ahead'..."-Source Unknown

 

[OneLostGrl]

WOW, How many people know this?? And, how many lives will be dismantled before they are like the Nexus 6, confined to another planet? Androids in relation to Humans still left with Feelings?

LOL- I don't know how many know but my guess is that anyone who has been raised by a borderline would probably agree.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think her narcissism has reached the height of extreme and she is pathological. I can see the borderline traits but she is so histrionic that it is difficult to nail down anything. Whenever I have this wide of a problem fitting them in a category because they cross so many lines, I put them in the class of Borderline. Cindy gives me that flavor of borderline personality but not pathological. I would like to see her IQ tests results. I get the impression she is not intelligent at all and that is why all this is so difficult to assess. I could be wrong and will leave that open.

I will say that I will NEVER EVER work again around any borderlines. In my opinion, they are like the devil and some are downright scary. I have seen Doctors, nurses, psychiatrists and psychologists set up by them and fired. In fact just going back in time and thinking of my experiences with them makes me so nervous that I want a tranquilizer. Almost all of the female borderlines I knew were cutters. It is hard to put kc completely there due to the fact that we know nothing about her youth. Did she have conduct disorder? I bet she did but we will never hear it from Cindy. She sure as heck had to have had defiant disorder as a child....and I would say she may have had or still has ADHD.

Her traits combined with a liberal upbringing without structure was a contributing factor to what has led to extreme rage. Without firm discipline and boundaries, some of these people disintegrate.

Please don't give up on those with a dx of Borderline, as much as my siblings and I went through because of my mothers illness and the choices she made because of that illness- she is much better today than she has ever been. DBT works if they are willing to work it and though there are no meds "approved" to treat Borderline, they are finding that Anti-psychotics and even mood stabalizers can help with many of the symptoms associated with it. The changes in my mother are amazing, she really is a new woman. There is hope!

I do get what you are saying though, those with BPD are difficult to deal with and false report abuse and much more, ITA

As an aside, Self mutilation is not exclusive to Borderline personality disorder, my mother was never a cutter.. however, I have Bipolar and I am. It is a coping mechanism..

 

[reeseeva]

I don't want to go off topic and get another T/O but I thought I'd share this as I think it says much.

"The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings, but shorter tempers; wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints; we spend more, but have less; we buy more, but enjoy it less.

We have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, but less time; we have more degrees, but less sense; more knowledge, but less judgment; more experts, but more problems; more medicine, but less wellness.

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get angry too quickly, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too seldom, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.

We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often. We've learned how to make a living, but not a life; we've added years to life, not life to years.

We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbor. We've conquered outer space, but not inner space; we've done larger things, but not better things.

We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul; we've split the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less; we plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to wait; we have higher incomes, but lower morals; we have more food, but less appeasement; we build more computers to hold more information to produce more copies than ever, but have less communication; we've become long on quantity, but short on quality.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion; tall men, and short character; steep profits, and shallow relationships. These are the times of world peace, but domestic warfare; more leisure, but less fun; more kinds of food, but less nutrition. These are days of two incomes, but more divorce; of fancier houses, but broken homes.

These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throw away morality, one-night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer to quiet to kill.

It is a time when there is much in the show window and nothing in the stockroom; a time when technology has brought this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to make a difference, or to just hit 'Skip Ahead'..."-Source Unknown

FABULOUSO! Nothing left to say! Except, Do we wonder WHY?

Thank You OLG...................You are what makes this Forum Special.

 

[Psmith]

I don't want to go off topic and get another T/O but I thought I'd share this as I think it says much.

"The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings, but shorter tempers; wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints; we spend more, but have less; we buy more, but enjoy it less.

We have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, but less time; we have more degrees, but less sense; more knowledge, but less judgment; more experts, but more problems; more medicine, but less wellness.

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get angry too quickly, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too seldom, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.

We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often. We've learned how to make a living, but not a life; we've added years to life, not life to years.

We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbor. We've conquered outer space, but not inner space; we've done larger things, but not better things.

We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul; we've split the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less; we plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to wait; we have higher incomes, but lower morals; we have more food, but less appeasement; we build more computers to hold more information to produce more copies than ever, but have less communication; we've become long on quantity, but short on quality.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion; tall men, and short character; steep profits, and shallow relationships. These are the times of world peace, but domestic warfare; more leisure, but less fun; more kinds of food, but less nutrition. These are days of two incomes, but more divorce; of fancier houses, but broken homes.

These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throw away morality, one-night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer to quiet to kill.

It is a time when there is much in the show window and nothing in the stockroom; a time when technology has brought this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to make a difference, or to just hit 'Skip Ahead'..."-Source Unknown

Ayn Rand or Vladimir Lenin?

xxo

 

[reeseeva]

LOL- I don't know how many know but my guess is that anyone who has been raised by a borderline would probably agree.

It only takes someone like you to Enlighten the Masses.....

 

[Whisperer]

:blowkiss: OLG...thank you for posting the paradox of our time. It is a good reminder to us all.

About Borderlines...I realize that you have first hand knowledge with your own mother being dx'd. I am glad she is doing well. I always wondered if they grew out of this behavior because there is no way this could continue and reach old age. I have worked in state mental hospitals, state prison with serial killers, murderers, drug addicts, child molesters/killers who have committed the worse crimes possible. So bad that most people would never comprehend the depths of the sick mind. I have seen the dark side of humans and it is not a place anyone should go.

However, the easiest job for me, you would think, would be working in an environment that was clean and carpeted. There were 11 female borderlines in a semi-out patient hospital (they were allowed to leave during the day), Compared to what I used to do, this should have been a day in the park, but not so. I noticed that working with female patients was more complex than their male counterparts. This can be accounted for due to hysterical behavior by these females.

I noticed that not one of these borderlines had children. The oldest one was 38. The emotins of these 11 were at the highest level. Many had severe cognitive deficits....no way can they live long if they continue their behavior so at some point they either commit suicide or they have to change their ways to continue to live. All of them had extreme narcissism and all were supposed to be taking meds. They were not monitored, however. For those who are not familiar with extreme borderlines, it would be difficult to explain all that happens but picture yourself trying to get answers and reasoning with 11 Caseys every day.

Yes, they had DBT available also but I don't think any of them praciticed, studied or cared to change. Perhaps the problem was I was working in an upscale facility where management was more concerned about keeping the client around so they get funding, so there wasn't much support for staff and I don't think much DBT was being done. Not any structure...they could come and go as they pleased. They were never held accountable for their behavior....very loose environment.

I only was there six months but it has left a mark on me and a strong distaste for borderlines/narcissists....uch:

 

[Verité]

Originally posted by OneLostGirl:

I believe if Casey were to be ever properly diagnosed it would be with a handful of personality disorders. However, because of her long term practice of lying, shutting down, splitting and disassociating I doubt she could ever be properly diagnosed.

I believe MANY of the traits that others here see as Narcissistic are in fact a cover for her Borderline-like insecurities. ITA that Casey has FAR more Borderline traits than Psychopath or Narcissistic ones.

__________________
First, it's important to realize that "narcissism" is a component of "normal"
development which has to do with the need to feel loved, valued and admired so crucial to healthy self-esteem development. So we all have
"narcissistic issues." Disruptions in the developmental process are believed
to contribute extreme features of narcissism seen in personality disorders,
such as both NPD & BPD. Lying, splitting, and dissociating are mechanisms
of defense seen to greater or lesser degrees in a range of personality styles and disorders, and the extent of these should not obscure but illuminate
diagnosis. For example, the mechanism of "splitting" the world into
rapidly-shifting all good or all bad components is a predominant
aspect of borderline functioning.

A "proper" diagnosis wouldn't include a "handful" of personality disorders,
although a diagnosis of BPD suggests sufficient heterogenity to include
several features, such as BPD with narcissistic & antisocial features.

The intense dependency conflicts central to BPD functioning certainly are
apparent in KC's struggle to be independent of her parents though slipping
in & out of their home to meet basic needs of self/others (e.g. stealing food,
gas, etc.), then back & forth reliance on housing with different males, subsuming their identities & interests (e.g. trying to "take-on" managerial functions at Fusian, according to boyfriend AL), and even
the critical need for someone to care for her own child, albeit an imaginary nanny.

 

[debs]

*snipped*
A Narcissistic Personality Disorder would be too grandiose to even want
to emulate another. A sociopath would insist on others bending to his/her
characteristic style, values, and behaviors.

You mean, like Cindy.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Originally posted by OneLostGirl:

__________________
First, it's important to realize that "narcissism" is a component of "normal"
development which has to do with the need to feel loved, valued and admired so crucial to healthy self-esteem development. So we all have
"narcissistic issues." Disruptions in the developmental process are believed
to contribute extreme features of narcissism seen in personality disorders,
such as both NPD & BPD. Lying, splitting, and dissociating are mechanisms
of defense seen to greater or lesser degrees in a range of personality styles and disorders, and the extent of these should not obscure but illuminate
diagnosis. For example, the mechanism of "splitting" the world into
rapidly-shifting all good or all bad components is a predominant
aspect of borderline functioning.

A "proper" diagnosis wouldn't include a "handful" of personality disorders,
although a diagnosis of BPD suggests sufficient heterogenity to include
several features, such as BPD with narcissistic & antisocial features.

The intense dependency conflicts central to BPD functioning certainly are
apparent in KC's struggle to be independent of her parents though slipping
in & out of their home to meet basic needs of self/others (e.g. stealing food,
gas, etc.), then back & forth reliance on housing with different males, subsuming their identities & interests (e.g. trying to "take-on" managerial functions at Fusian, according to boyfriend AL), and even
the critical need for someone to care for her own child, albeit an imaginary nanny.

Bold mine-

Sure it could. I realize a person can have "features" of an illness but I am also fully aware that it is often the case that many do indeed have more than one co-existing disorder.

With all respect, we can have different opinions.. but my mind is unchangable in this regard.

 

[OneLostGrl]

You mean, like Cindy.

Once again I am nodding my head as I read your post.

 

[stilettos]

:blowkiss: OLG...thank you for posting the paradox of our time. It is a good reminder to us all.

About Borderlines...I realize that you have first hand knowledge with your own mother being dx'd. I am glad she is doing well. I always wondered if they grew out of this behavior because there is no way this could continue and reach old age. I have worked in state mental hospitals, state prison with serial killers, murderers, drug addicts, child molesters/killers who have committed the worse crimes possible. So bad that most people would never comprehend the depths of the sick mind. I have seen the dark side of humans and it is not a place anyone should go.

However, the easiest job for me, you would think, would be working in an environment that was clean and carpeted. There were 11 female borderlines in a semi-out patient hospital (they were allowed to leave during the day), Compared to what I used to do, this should have been a day in the park, but not so. I noticed that working with female patients was more complex than their male counterparts. This can be accounted for due to hysterical behavior by these females.

I noticed that not one of these borderlines had children. The oldest one was 38. The emotins of these 11 were at the highest level. Many had severe cognitive deficits....no way can they live long if they continue their behavior so at some point they either commit suicide or they have to change their ways to continue to live. All of them had extreme narcissism and all were supposed to be taking meds. They were not monitored, however. For those who are not familiar with extreme borderlines, it would be difficult to explain all that happens but picture yourself trying to get answers and reasoning with 11 Caseys every day.

Yes, they had DBT available also but I don't think any of them praciticed, studied or cared to change. Perhaps the problem was I was working in an upscale facility where management was more concerned about keeping the client around so they get funding, so there wasn't much support for staff and I don't think much DBT was being done. Not any structure...they could come and go as they pleased. They were never held accountable for their behavior....very loose environment.

I only was there six months but it has left a mark on me and a strong distaste for borderlines/narcissists....uch:

:blowkiss:Whisperer, you must be an amazing person to have worked at this facility full time. I have lived with a borderline daughter and one is most definately all that I can handle. Most of the Doctors that have been involved with our girl's case over the years, (and they are MANY) have told us that quite a few doctors and practitioners refuse to deal with BPD patients because they are so difficult to deal with. That you had a facility full of them is an undertaking. While I love my daughter with all my heart, I too have an extreme distaste for dealing with the behaviors of a borderline. The problem is that distaste feeds into the borderline's worst fear...abandonment!

 

[stilettos]

The biggist clue for me is they have an uncanny ability to twist others words and actions to fit their agenda and come out looking like a victim to people who do not know them. outsiders consistently feel bad for them, and often believe the aflicted persons loved ones are selfish.

That's perfect! So true Lost! I belong to a support group of parents of BPD children. The one consolation to the bolded above...given long enough interaction, those outsiders will be subject to the same behaviors. Then they figure out what's been going on for the loved ones.

 

[Whisperer]

Hi Stilettos, thank you for the compliment but I only worked there 5 months and part-time. I can say I will never work anywhere borderlines are residing. I should have not taken the position but after years of working mental health, I had no idea what I was doing when I agreed. I think when they are put in a residential setting by the county that the degree of their problem must be pretty significant. Most of my years were spent working with the male population. They do not seem to exhibit the hysteria that the females do. It is not readily dx'd in males either.

But most important is how you are doing...I applaud YOU for being the Mom. You most likely have a better handle on this personality and lots of experience. I wish you all the happiness and success around. Keep us informed of your progress.
:blowkiss:

 

[Whisperer]

OLG...you said it right again...only those who have been close to this type know what they are capable of....funny thing, it is difficult to put into words. All I know is I feel very angry or very sad whenever I encounter one.

It is diabolical what they do to you...the loved one always feels bad. Even when you know better, they still get you and you can fall into the trap...hard to explain.....but they are good......real good. Be afraid...very afraid...

 

[DAWN TREADER]

I would love to know what Casey's emotional IQ is.

 

[Penelope]

Dear Sleuthers-- reading all of your thoughts about possible psychological profiles of Casey and company has been so interesting and has helped me begin to understand what could possibly be wrong with my stepdaughter's mother.

Based on comments from some of you, I recently purchased two books: Understanding the Borderline Mother and Stop Walking on Eggshells, and have been reading both. From the information I have gotten from these books, I really believe my stepdaughter's mother has BPD -- her behavior fits almost all of the characteristics/criteria of a borderline personality. These books are giving me a layman's (really a laywoman's!) understanding of this woman's actions as well as an idea of what my stepdaughter has endured for almost 12 years. They also are providing me with ideas of how to set boundaries with this woman during any interactions I may have with her and my stepdaughter.

I can also recognize some aspects of Casey and Cindy in the book's case studies and descriptions of borderline personalities. I get the chills when I watch the filmclips of Casey on NG, the ones where she is moving her hands and making wierd, angry faces and talking about ME- ME- ME. I just hope that little Caylee did not suffer much at her mother's hands.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Dear Sleuthers-- reading all of your thoughts about possible psychological profiles of Casey and company has been so interesting and has helped me begin to understand what could possibly be wrong with my stepdaughter's mother.

Based on comments from some of you, I recently purchased two books: Understanding the Borderline Mother and Stop Walking on Eggshells, and have been reading both. From the information I have gotten from these books, I really believe my stepdaughter's mother has BPD -- her behavior fits almost all of the characteristics/criteria of a borderline personality. These books are giving me a layman's (really a laywoman's!) understanding of this woman's actions as well as an idea of what my stepdaughter has endured for almost 12 years. They also are providing me with ideas of how to set boundaries with this woman during any interactions I may have with her and my stepdaughter.

I can also recognize some aspects of Casey and Cindy in the book's case studies and descriptions of borderline personalities. I get the chills when I watch the filmclips of Casey on NG, the ones where she is moving her hands and making wierd, angry faces and talking about ME- ME- ME. I just hope that little Caylee did not suffer much at her mother's hands.

Both excellent books!!! I am so glad that you have been able to get some insight through this thread. The only thing I'd like to add is just keep on eye on your step daughter because having grown up with this woman, without extensive therapy, her chances of ending up with the same behaviors as her mother are very high. It's why we call it "learned behaviors" we do what we see our parents doing.. They are very difficult to "unlearn", took me years.. and I still struggle some days, I want to just go with my natural reactions.

I wish you all the luck in the world- I cannot imagine being married to a man who has a Borderline for an ex-wife, holy HE!!-Setting some boundries is a very good idea! Like getting an unlisted number and moving out of the country LOL (j/k). :blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I would love to know what Casey's emotional IQ is.

Me too. I gotta say though, Cindy is much more interesting to me. I feel like I get Casey, I don't wonder about what goes on in her head. I'm not "stumped" by her in the least... I don't wonder how she got the way she is, etc etc.

Cindy however... I have lots of questions! I am very curious about her past, her childhood, her life before George and her and George's earlier years together. Though because this case is not about Cindy I would never delve into it. Drives me crazy sometimes though because her brother Rick only lives about 15-20 minutes from me and I don't doubt he'd love to share what he knows!