Casey & Family Psychological Profile #5

[reeseeva]

In all of our lives, and I mean every single one of us, there are things that we do that would not be considered "normal" by any certain segment of the population. Everyone has their "quirks" certainly and there are no exceptions to this rule. None of us is a perfect and shining example of what a perfect human would be like.

BUT

there is a standard by which the guidelines are drawn ...and when more of your behaviors are in the unhealthy group of characteristics, then you move out of just being a normal quirky person and into a deviant group.

NOW

there are many of us who will feel perfectly at home in one of the "deviant" groups or another, and there is not a thing wrong with that. It is the nature of the beast.

BUT

there are those who do not recognize that they fit quite nicely into the deviant groups and that they actually are the standard by which the deviant group has been measured.

When we, the "normal" kooks see someone who is so obviously off the charts NOT normal and yet seems to exist in complete denial that they even have any faults, well, it gets us riled a bit...
BECAUSE

recognizing ones own problems is the first step in taking action to solve those problems. And when one who has become as much of a public figure as Cindy has goes about in such complete and utter denial of what is truth and what is fact, then it is apparent that no steps are being taken in this individuals life to cure the deficit, and a deficit that is not cured is surely growing larger.

SO

The moral of the story IS don't go out of your way to show the world your problems if you do not want solutions presented...:angel:

Bold mine

Great assessment & simply stated!

 

[icherish]

Right back at ya! :blowkiss:

The mocking and the vilification does not help Cindy, certainly, but it just might help others who may be engaged in the same sort of behaviors to RECOGNIZE THEM and to deviate from them into some other more constructive behaviors. For instance: Cindy says lying is not a crime, in reference to the abundant supply of lies on hand told by Casey. She then proceeds to lie at every turn for the next six months or so about anything and everything that she can possibly confuse. We, here, call attention to this repeatedly. Perhaps someone who has the same lying issues who may be reading might think-hmmm...maybe I really should try to be more honest, huh? in dialogue with themselves of course...and on and on like that. We never know who is going to be affected by our words, and that is a good reason to choose them wisely.
I for one know someone who is very much like Cindy, or what she appears to be from what we have learned of her from her own actions and her lack of actions, from her interviews with the police, with the FBI, with countless media outlets, and her behavior in public and what we have learned from others-including from her son, her husband, and her own mother and brother and so I have a personal insight into her that some others could possibly benefit from. I know we hate to admit it, but sometimes, bad parents DO make the child-although not always, and according to my 17 year old NEVER! She completely disagrees with any affect-effect or push-pull or any of what she calls the "excuses" for doing something that one knows is wrong-regardless of ones upbringing. To her EVERYTHING is about choices and no mental weakness, emotional weakness or any kind of problems or hardships figure in to it. She and I do not agree on the subject and debate it frequently. She says I would be a behaviorist I think if I were a psychologist and she is a humanist? That may not be right-I am bleary eyed and tired, but my main point is that everyone is not going to agree on if we should be discussing any of this and certainly not on how we go about discussing it. We ARE pretty brutally honest here, and sometimes that is hard to swallow I know. And we are all just trying to do our part to bring on the enlightenment and chase the spiders away...

Not that Cindy is a spider...but if she was which one would she be?

Sorry magic, I can't buy that the mocking and vilifying of a person helps habitual liars fix their character flaws.

Cindy was under extraordinary duress and I believe a combination of psychotropic drugs during much of the period of time you speak of. The detectives and FBI agents who interviewed her, particularly YM, knew that and even though they were frustrated with what she was doing, I feel they realized what a complete mess she was under the circumstances. They had a job to do and wanted her to stop, begged her stop, but they didn't nail her to the wall and vilify her. They had and I think still have, empathy toward her. I think we can learn something them. moo

 

[icherish]

I realize I have over-simplified some things for the sake of uhmmm, simplicity! but I think the gist of what I am saying is this:

Casey Anthony is and was a liar and a thief.
Her parents knew this-especially Cindy, who was the main "breadwinner" for their home.
Rather than allow her to face the consequences early on and continually for her illegal behaviors-another road was taken. That road is the road that brought us all here, unfortunately.

The road that was taken was to pay her way out of all those illegal activities. Pay off the credit cards that she illicitly got in her mom's name. Pay off the bank where she stole from her grandparents account. Let it go by that she stole a $4,000 deposit from her parents. And on and on like that. They could have engaged in HEALTHY behaviors, and yes, these might have been more difficult, but the right road usually is. Had she been challenged to face her own actions in the form of consequences early on and continually, I seriously doubt we would even be here discussing her at all. She would have gotten into legal troubles long ago and with the law breathing down her back she may have thought twice before murdering her daughter or otherwise bringing harm to her.
And this "wearing down" that I have heard lamented so many times before. One cannot be "overcome of evil but must overcome evil with good" and this is straight from the big JC himself. We cannot simply bow to evil even in our children, and MUST struggle to overcome it no matter how wearing or tearing it is for us to do so. Nobody ever said parenting was easy, and I am here to tell you it ain't easy, and there are struggles galore, and we MUST engage in the struggles and not simply succumb because we feel "numbed" by a child who continually misbehaves. That child MUST be brought to order in one way or another, and if our "ways" are not working, then we must seek outside interference for the sake of the child and for our own mental well being. :croc:

I do agree with you that they should have thrown the book at her for stealing their money and her grandparent's money. Would Casey have made a complete turnaround if they had? Not so sure. She wasn't a 16 year old "child" who's personality and character traits were still forming. At 22, I think her personality and general character (or lack of it) was pretty well fixed. Chances are she'd just learn to be craftier in her deviant ways... jmo.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...Casey was responsible for herself and she was the only one who could fix herself. She didn't want to.

Yawn....now, I'm off to work...on 3 hours sleep. :crazy:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Not expecting you to stop posting here. :blowkiss: As far as I'm concerned you are as free to post as I am free to scroll past if I want. (and I usually do) I just decided to post because the thread resurfaced I'm trying to understand the purpose of it. I respect your opinion as well, and it's nice to know we can agree on a few points.

Cindy may have tried to make her accountable for deviant conduct earlier in life. How can we say she didn't? If such conduct becomes a pervasive pattern in a young person, it is VERY difficult to deal with as they become adults. I think when Casey became an adult and she continued down her crooked path, they were at a loss with how to deal with her, especially since they had Caylee to consider. Not saying that's an EXCUSE...but a factor. I'm guessing Casey was slowly sucking the life right out of them...knowing that people like Casey have a special propensity for doing that. I'm sure they never thought for a moment she'd hurt Caylee though.

We can say she didn't becase Cindy's own mother, son and husband admit to it. See, I see things very differently, I see Cindy as the one who sucks the life out of people... and knowing people like Cindy "have a special propensity for doing that". I'm sorry but I cannot and will not excuse away her behaviors, blaming them on grief when we know she has a pattern of these behaviors (how do we know this? from her mother, her brother, her son and her husband- are all of these people lying about her? I doubt it).

I agree that Cindy loved Caylee with all she had, lived for her even (Cindy's mother says the only reason Cindy hadn't killed herself is because of Caylee- which in itself is unhealthy) and probably never thought Casey would hurt caylee, I have never said otherwise. I don't know how many more ways I say say this- I do not blame Cindy for Caylee's murder (unless she was involved in it)! I do however blame Cindy for never holding her daughter accountable for her actions. I also blame Cindy for teaching her daughter that it is OK to lie and steal and take advantage of others. That is not healthy parenting and although Casey made a choice and should be held acountable (though, Cindy sure doesn't think she should be held accountable, even for this! When does it stop.. where does CINDY draw the line?), her character and morals are extremely messed up due to what she was taught is OK. What she is still being told is OK- she is accused of murdering her daughter and her mother is still covering up and lying for her.. what does that teach her?

The law says it's bad, immoral, illegal and you should be punished but mommy says "It's OK sweet heart, when this is over and you come home you don't even have to work, OK?" Just as Casey's behaviors should not be excused or ignored, neither should Cindy's.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I do agree with you that they should have thrown the book at her for stealing their money and her grandparent's money. Would Casey have made a complete turnaround if they had? Not so sure. She wasn't a 16 year old "child" who's personality and character traits were still forming. At 22, I think her personality and general character (or lack of it) was pretty well fixed. Chances are she'd just learn to be craftier in her deviant ways... jmo.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...Casey was responsible for herself and she was the only one who could fix herself. She didn't want to.

Yawn....now, I'm off to work...on 3 hours sleep. :crazy:

I disagree. People can change. I lived a life far wilder than we know Casey's to have been. My criminal background goes back to 15 years of age.. I am a felon several times over. I won't go into everything I was but it wasn't pretty.. and I have changed. It is never too late.. it's sad to see people assume there is no hope. People need to know they can change.. they can improve themselves.. Even Cindy can change, DBT is an amazing thing if one is serious about changing.. My mother has come so far with her own issues that are much like what we see in Cindy. Please don't take that hope away from people.

ETA- This is an example of where I get the feeling "mental illness is a dirty word" from. Assuming people with personality disorders are doomed.. that at age 22 a persons "character" is pretty well fixed and there is no hope for them. That is just wrong.

 

[sweetmop]

If we ever wish for this behavior to stop, we need to understand what causes it. ENABLING (not to mention the LYING and COVERING UP they did for how many years?!) parents with personality disorders or behaviors much like them do often create children who engage in the behaviors Casey has engaged in, even before the murder of her child.

I believe Cindy's illness, her BEHAVIOR is a very important part of what made Casey, Casey. Cindy has put herself out there, presented herself to the world as a liar, and a sneak, who is willing to throw anyone BUT her daughter under the bus. I didn't make any of that up, that isn't bad media coverage of a "grief-stricken grandmother". It's truth and it's fact, we have all seen this play out with our own eyes.

I'd think Cindy would rather have something to blame it on (she sure seems to like the whole blame game) then accept it as her true character. Having a disorder wouldn't be her fault. Being a lying, spiteful, nasty, guilt riddled liar who is willing to let her daughter get away with murder would be.

Mental illness is not a dirty word. These are legitimate answers and I answer them respectfuly.

Great post, OLG!
We do reap what we sow, so to speak.
And children learn what they live.

 

[Mysticj]

people can only change if they admit there is something wrong. It also requires going through the steps and awareness. I don't see Cindy doing this.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I do agree with you that they should have thrown the book at her for stealing their money and her grandparent's money. Would Casey have made a complete turnaround if they had? Not so sure. She wasn't a 16 year old "child" who's personality and character traits were still forming. At 22, I think her personality and general character (or lack of it) was pretty well fixed. Chances are she'd just learn to be craftier in her deviant ways... jmo.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...Casey was responsible for herself and she was the only one who could fix herself. She didn't want to.

Yawn....now, I'm off to work...on 3 hours sleep. :crazy:

Bold is mine-

Of course she didn't want to.. why would she.. it's not like she was ever held accountable or got in trouble for her actions. Why change when she could steal from mom and grandma and Lee and his friends and not even get in trouble for it? People change when their behaviors stop working... when their actions get them in trouble.. when people stop allowing the abuse, when they have no other choice. "Rock bottom"

 

[OneLostGrl]

people can only change if they admit there is something wrong. It also requires going through the steps and awareness. I don't see Cindy doing this.

Sadly, I agree. I do hope someday she will find peace within herself.

 

[sharpar]

Whatever Cindy suffers from has been in residence long before KC had Caylee .
Her issues are pathlogical and deeply entrenched.
Blaming her behavior on grief is to trivialize it . She has had problems for a very long time. Maybe even since she was KC 's age. She has and will suffer greatly because of them .

OLG - I have thought George was the sickest one of all for a very long time - he opted out of responsibility; he plays ostrich and then sucks up the sympathy. KC learned alot from dear ole dad .

 

[metalcrystal]

Whatever Cindy suffers from has been in residence long before KC had Caylee .
Her issues are pathlogical and deeply entrenched.
Blaming her behavior on grief is to trivialize it . She has had problems for a very long time. Maybe even since she was KC 's age. She has and will suffer greatly because of them .

OLG - I have thought George was the sickest one of all for a very long time - he opted out of responsibility; he plays ostrich and then sucks up the sympathy. KC learned alot from dear ole dad .

This is a really really good point. GA is a narcissist. His use of endearments like "beautiful" to his daughter and other women are ways of ingratiating himself. Men who talk to women like this are manipulative. Suicide attempt? Really? he sure was back in action fast. Really good post.

 

[magic-cat]

I do agree with you that they should have thrown the book at her for stealing their money and her grandparent's money. Would Casey have made a complete turnaround if they had? Not so sure. She wasn't a 16 year old "child" who's personality and character traits were still forming. At 22, I think her personality and general character (or lack of it) was pretty well fixed. Chances are she'd just learn to be craftier in her deviant ways... jmo.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...Casey was responsible for herself and she was the only one who could fix herself. She didn't want to.

Yawn....now, I'm off to work...on 3 hours sleep. :crazy:

The only problem with this scenario is that Casey actually was NOT responsible for herself. Granted she was a twenty two year old woman when this all happened, but even then she was not responsible for ANYTHING including her own needs. Her mother took care of everything for her and Caylee and I mean everything. I doubt that Casey even had to do her own laundry much less be responsible for anything else. I know they fed her, clothed her, paid for her car, paid for her insurance and her cell phone, paid for the care of her daughter, babysat for her, handed her money on an ongoing basis, cleaned and maintained her car for her, and everything else. How can one learn to be responsible for anything when one has mommy and daddy being responsible on their behalf? They cannot.

Now, I do believe that Casey knew the difference between right and wrong just as I believe George and Cindy knew, but they did not choose the right path at every turn, and in fact, they chose the wrong path almost every time that there was a choice.

I for one admit that I am an imperfect parent. BUT I do not have much in common with George and Cindy. My children KNOW that if they steal and are caught then that is ALL on them and I will have no part in upholding it, and that includes "buying them out of it". They know if they rob a business that I am the last person that they should expect to bail them out of jail because I have taught them better than that and they KNOW better. Now, if they were out drunk and needed a ride, I would drive a hundred miles to insure that they did NOT drive, but this is because they called BEFORE they broke the law and endangered other citizens. (I use these examples in a purely hypothetical scenario:blushing And I gurantee you that if one of my kids robbed my parents or me and stole huge sums of money from one or the other of us that I would not say oh that is ok, I will pay for it and you just go on about your business. THAT would be their business and their responsibility to clear that up-especially after they were eighteen years old and legally responsible.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Cindy is trying to play the "grieving Grandmother" but In my opinion she should be charged with obstructing justice & withholding evidence for the following reasons

I believe Cindy lied to LE about the events leading up to Casey leaving the Anthony home on June 15th

I believe Cindy lied about Casey needing the shovel to remove Bamboo June 18th

I believe Cindy lied when she told the media that the car had "No Odor" until after it was towed

I believe Cindy knowingly destroyed evidence related to Caylee's disappearance on July 15th

I believe Cindy lied under oath during the bond hearing when she said ...."after Casey graduated high school"

I believe Cindy is encouraging LE to pursue Jessie Grund as a suspect when she knows he is innocent

I believe Cindy is deliberately embellishing false sightings of Caylee

I believe Cindy is deliberately withholding additional information from LE that is vital to this case

A very sensible post and I 100% agree. I think both Lee and Cindy should be charged with obstruction of justice. I think Lee knew were Caylee was.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Whatever Cindy suffers from has been in residence long before KC had Caylee .
Her issues are pathlogical and deeply entrenched.
Blaming her behavior on grief is to trivialize it . She has had problems for a very long time. Maybe even since she was KC 's age. She has and will suffer greatly because of them .

OLG - I have thought George was the sickest one of all for a very long time - he opted out of responsibility; he plays ostrich and then sucks up the sympathy. KC learned alot from dear ole dad .

I agree with you that George has some major issues.. he is what I call a man child. IMO Finding a man like him with a woman like Cindy is pretty typical (she's almost become his "mommy", no? telling him what he is allowed to say, when he is allowed to meet with LE, etc.. berates him in front of his children, he steals money from her and sneaks on the computer to look at *advertiser censored* and escort sites, gambles, or falls for scams whichever- he is the household joke).. they seek each other out, feed off one another. But she gives and gives and stays and stays- hating him all the while (how do we know this? from her mother! so this is not something I came up with or we heard from the media) Cindy wanted a divorce but wouldn't leave because that is "HER HOUSE!" ..and she aint gonna pay him no alimony!

No, IMO She is the sickest person in that home, she was willing to teach her children that is what love is, that is what family and commitment and marriage is? She was willing to be stolen from- to be used and betrayed and manipulated and made a fool of over and over and over again. And then she EXCUSES it.. all of it.. As if it doesn't matter how ANYONE treats her, as if it's OK.. like she does not even matter, her feelings her trust her emotions, her energy.. her LOVE, nothing.. none of it matters. And she taught her daughter the same thing..

I don't get how any of that can be thought of as healthy behavior..

And she is OK with that. She sees NOTHING wrong with it.. that woman is so personality disordered it is scary. And I am not putting her down when I say that! She can get help, she CAN Change.

I'd love to discuss my feelings on George and Lee too for that matter... I just don't want to be punished for discussing it.

 

[Whisperer]

Yep, OLG, Jackie Peterson also had a husband like this, though I consider Cindy much more disordered. These type have a knack for choosing men that are giving and submissive and needy.

 

[Theonly1]

The only problem with this scenario is that Casey actually was NOT responsible for herself. Granted she was a twenty two year old woman when this all happened, but even then she was not responsible for ANYTHING including her own needs. Her mother took care of everything for her and Caylee and I mean everything. I doubt that Casey even had to do her own laundry much less be responsible for anything else. I know they fed her, clothed her, paid for her car, paid for her insurance and her cell phone, paid for the care of her daughter, babysat for her, handed her money on an ongoing basis, cleaned and maintained her car for her, and everything else. How can one learn to be responsible for anything when one has mommy and daddy being responsible on their behalf? They cannot.

Now, I do believe that Casey knew the difference between right and wrong just as I believe George and Cindy knew, but they did not choose the right path at every turn, and in fact, they chose the wrong path almost every time that there was a choice.

respectfully snipped...
.

And ask yourselves, Dear WS'ers has the enabling ended (even with little Caylee dead and death/murder is a worst case scenario)? I sayeth "not". My opinion.



Do you think CA and even GA would like Casey out of jail and acquitted right now? What consequences would be given then? Honey, you won't even have to work...

Are you kidding me? If Casey is let out I'm not living within her radius anymore. And I cannot imagine for the life of me how CA and GA can trust that she won't off them in the night when the whimsy takes her.

 

[JBean]

This thread is about our intepretation of the psychological profile and the family dynamics of the Anthony's. It's not about why certain posters think what they do, or who certain posters may or may not be.
Think of it this way:
Any time the conversation on these threads comes to be about the posters themselves instead of the topic at hand, it is on the wrong track. Attack the post and not the poster. Discuss the topic and not the posters.

thanks

 

[reeseeva]

I agree with you that George has some major issues.. he is what I call a man child. IMO Finding a man like him with a woman like Cindy is pretty typical (she's almost become his "mommy", no? telling him what he is allowed to say, when he is allowed to meet with LE, etc.. berates him in front of his children, he steals money from her and sneaks on the computer to look at *advertiser censored* and escort sites, gambles, or falls for scams whichever- his is the household joke).. they seek each other out, feed off one another. But she gives and gives and stays and stays- hating him all the while (how do we know this? from her mother! so this is not something I came up with or we heard from the media) Cindy wanted a divorce but wouldn't leave because that is "HER HOUSE!" ..and she aint gonna pay him no alimony!

No, IMO She is the sickest person in that home, she was willing to teach her children that is what love is, that is what family and commitment and marriage is? She was willing to be stolen from- to be used and betrayed and manipulated and made a fool of over and over and over again. And then she EXCUSES it.. all of it.. As if it doesn't matter how ANYONE treats her, as if it's OK.. like she does not even matter, her feelings her trust her emotions, her energy.. her LOVE, nothing.. none of it matters. And she taught her daughter the same thing..
I don't get how any of that can be thought of as healthy behavior..

And she is OK with that. She sees NOTHING wrong with it.. that woman is so personality disordered it is scary. And I am not putting her down when I say that! She can get help, she CAN Change.

I'd love to discuss my feelings on George and Lee too for that matter... I just don't want to be punished for discussing it.

:rose: For you OLG, These 2 bolded sentences are precisely how I've felt, from watching this family's dynamics, yet never could articulate, with clarity, what you have brilliantly presented. Yes, it's the excusing of all these abuses, as if they don't matter, that makes my head explode. I see this in KC, in her abnormal responses to things that would make most of us crumble.

Some may just see Cindy, as tough, thick skinned, but I see her as brick wall, impervious to meaningful advice & useful analysis that could bring a positive change, for her, as well as those around her.

Thank You, once again, for your wonderful insight, & wisdom from your personal experiences. I, for one, am so glad, & feel fortunate you are here to share!

 

[concentric]

Very interesting:

I cannot quote what was said in this article, but check out the paragraph toward the bottom extracted from research documents that speaks of a cross-diagnosis between the narcissist and psychopath. Sound like anyone we know?

http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/narcissistpsychopath

 

[ellenkay]

Originally Posted by icherish
I have refrained from posting in this thread every time it surfaces, but I just have to ask a few questions.

First- can someone please explain to me the purpose and point of this thread? Cindy is not charged with a crime. In the eyes of the law she is one of the many victims in this case. I thought the MODS at WS at least saw her as such? If they do, why do they allow this thread? The speculative, ultimately proven-false Lee/paternity/incest thread went straight to the parking lot, as it should have. What is different about this one?

I'm simply trying to understand how whether or not Cindy has has a mental condition matters? How does dissecting, critiquing, comparing to others and arm-chair-diagnosing this grief-stricken grandmother with mental and/or personality disorders important in seeking justice for Caylee? No flames, please- I think these are legitimate questions, I ask them respectfully and I'd appreciate the same. Thanks.

I think that the purpose of this thread is that for many, (myself included) is the thought that Cindy could have prevented this tragedy. Cindy should have been the one champion that this little girl had. Instead she allowed and enabled Casey to lie again and again. The very least that she could have done was to insist upon meeting the “babysitter” way back when. Casey’s fantasy world would have collapsed and perhaps Caylee would still be alive. I wouldn’t want to be her when she wakes up in the middle of the night and is alone with her thoughts.