Casey & Family Psychological Profile #6

[Whisperer]

There are two different evals. If a court has ordered an eval, the inmate is reviewed by an outside psych/agency. The psych team in prison is not privy to that eval. I have not seen many psychs do work-ups (evals) in prison; however, they can if they choose to. There are usually records from other prisons or hospitals that they refer to. Any tx plans, if you call them that, are discussed with the inmate and a team of mental health professinals that meet with the inmate at least once a month to discuss medication and/or different therapies, i.e. vocational, art, education. There are group therapies and individual sometimes, there are also AA meetings. I don't refer to this as a treatment "Plan" but I realize it could pass as one on paper.

 

[Knot4u2no]

Thanks for answering

Same question as I asked Brini.. are the evals rolled into one or are they seperate, If ya'll don't mind me asking?

I am not familiar with the standards for Florida, but in NC pretrial diagnostic evaluations (competency evaluations) are comprehensive and do include clinical diagnoses. In the prison system, all inmates receive a mental health screening, including intellectual screening, which may lead to a comprehensive evaluation. In order to receive mental health services (psychiatric or psychological), other than temporary case management or crisis intervention, a mental health evaluation with diagnoses is completed and a treatment plan is developed. The treatment plan is more or less sophisticated depending on the setting (day treatment program, residential mental health setting, or someone in general population). Depending on the case, there may be an evaluation to assist custody staff with management decisions, such as how much of a risk an inmate would be in a lower level of custody. Of course, prior to the trial, in addition to any court ordered evaluations, the defense may arrange for their own evaluations (psychiatric, neurological, etc). I expect Casey has had a basic psychological evaluation, but a prudent clinician might have deferred any diagnoses pending the availability of additional background information and further opportunity to observe her behavior and monitor her adjustment. Just my opinions.

Russell

 

[Whisperer]

OLG...I guess I am confused on what you mean by treatment plan. Are you referring to prison inmate treatment plan? Or are you saying that who ever does the initial work-up provide a treatment plan? They can be worked up by the outside court system, this is rare. or by a treating team within the prison at their discretion. The outside work-up would not come with a treatment plan. The term "rehab" was used by prison staff. In fact the term "treatment plan" is not used inside to my knowledge. I am going back quite a few years....things may have changed. I have no knowledge on the county jail system....I am referring to state prison.

Inside, the teams discuss Dx, rehab, medication usually all at once and based on observation and what they have read from the crime itself and other doctors....you may call that rolled up (all in one) but no formal long testing is done....just discussion between staff.

Like I stated, if inmate is referred outside for an evaluation, that is all it is. The staff inside do not get the eval, thus, no treatment plan.

 

[circe257]

This thread has made for some very interesting reading. I agree with most of what's been written here - KC IMO shows obvious signs of being antisocial/sociopathic. I'm somewhat troubled though by the fact that several people have mentioned her possibly suffering from a dissociative identity disorder. Granted, I don't know her, never met her, am not a licensed psychiatrist - I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night....However, IMO she doesn't exhibit any of the classic behaviors/symptoms associated with that disorder. Which is arguably not even a legitimate diagnosis depending on who you ask.

I think most of us have trouble wrapping our heads around why/how a parent could kill their own child, so we think they must obviously be a crazed lunatic. Personally, I don't understand murderers at all, unless it is in a case of self defense, which then IMO wouldn't be a murder at all. There are some sick and twisted people in the world, Bundy, Dahmer, Susan Smith, Scott Peterson....the list goes on.....but they aren't crazy, only their actions were. In no way is she eligible for the insanity defense. MOO :twocents:

 

[Whisperer]

I don't think she has dissociative identity disorder but I can see a defense trying to explain her behavior for the first 31 days with something similar. kc seems disconnected in some ways. It appears as if her brain does not grasp the intellectual process at all. She is driven strictly on her emotions.

 

[skoodles]

IMHO I have said from the start Casey sounded mentally ill, I was called a good Samaritan, or a humanitarian, and that Casey is just plain EVIL.
I still believe she is mentally ill, and her parents can NOT absorb this fact.

I do not think her attorney knows what he is doing.

FROM THE ARTICLE "MOMMY DEAREST": (Lots of information that I agree with).
The Mind of the Sociopath
According to Criminologist, James Alan Fox, professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University, some act on genuine psychotic delusions. Others can be motivated by selfish reasons if the child is perceived by them to be an obstacle in their relationship with a boyfriend, or preventing them from living the carefree lifestyle that they want.
>SNIP<
http://www.officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Mommy-Dearest/18$45493

I, too, believe anyone that abuses a child is mentally ill, but the bigger question is whether that person has the mental capacity of knowing right from wrong, being aware of the consequences of their behavior. I also feel that the cause and reason for Caylee's death is more simple than what has been analyzed and discussed. I do believe KC is directly the cause for Caylee's death, but that the reason is far more simple ... how does a 21, 22, 23 year old, single mother of a child going through "terrible two's" act or react, when their mental capacity is out of whack? It is my belief that the death was caused by stupidty and neglect on the part of KC.

 

[SoSueMe]

I said this on another thread, but It may belong here too.
I am starting to think that with GA always calling them my daughters that he is telling the truth;
then thinking about it I think it is unusual for him to say Hi Beautiful, or Hi gorgeous; YAK!
If asked my parent did say they had 3 kids one is their daughters. (they did consider My kid theirs too-LOL)

My father thought I was pretty but he never addressed me that way. When I got dressed nice he may say you look beautiful, but that is very different, and a parent should know the difference. and they never accidentally called my daughter their daughter. They could have accidentally mixed up our names sometimes LOL.

It is a bit UN-nerving the way GA addresses Casey, and calles them my daughters. hmmmmm?

The way GA addressed KA when he said "Hi gorgeous" did not seem strange to me. I see it as a term of endearment. My father often called me "Princess" and it often made me smile.

 

[SoSueMe]

I don't think Casey believes her lies to the extent that she believes that she actually worked, that there was a Zanny and that she didn't kill Caylee..etc. I guess what I was trying to say is that I feel Casey is able to retract her mind from all of that, she still KNOWS right from wrong and truth from fiction, BUT I believe she is able to "disconnect" herself from it when it's convenient for her to do so as a coping mechanism. She can't keep this up when confronted--like at Universal, when she couldn't actually take them to an office. I really don't know how to explain what I mean and it is totally a guess because I have never met Casey or anyone that she has known. BUT, I am proposing that Casey has developed a coping mechanism over the years of detaching herself while still knowing the truth which is why she can sit there and tell the same lie over and over again--even after being proven wrong. To this day, she still says she worked at Universal.

[snipped for space]

I simply see this as KC living the lie, rather than believing the lie. In her own little world she probably puts herself into this fantasy life (lie) and elaborates on it as time goes by, but she does know it is a lie.

I absolutely love this thread and I am so appreciative of all the insight. Thank you all.

 

[songline]

Since this thread's title includes "complete family psych profile", maybe I can ask this question here. If Casey had a different set of parents, do you think we would be sitting here discussing the murder of Caylee ?

If Casey had a different set of parents I don't think they would have waited 31 days.
What did GA learn as an LE anyway? the 31 day 911 call was damage control. JMO
and his level of defensiveness, screams much louder then he does.

 

[songline]

The way GA addressed KA when he said "Hi gorgeous" did not seem strange to me. I see it as a term of endearment. My father often called me "Princess" and it often made me smile.

I think that is very different. JMHO
Many dads do what your Dad did and that is not offensive to me at all. But here is a girl sitting in jail, and putting the family through hell he should be mad as hell. Not giving her approval of any kind. Maybe other then saying I will do whatever I can to help you, but beautiful, gorgeous, I found offensive, and inappropriate.

 

[songline]

I don't think she has dissociative identity disorder but I can see a defense trying to explain her behavior for the first 31 days with something similar. kc seems disconnected in some ways. It appears as if her brain does not grasp the intellectual process at all. She is driven strictly on her emotions.

I would like them to explain Cindy and Georges first 31 days too.

GA Is Mr LE he had been trained, what made them wait that long? I do not care what Casey said, they knew she was full of BS. When that baby did not come home on the 2nd night GA should have said have her back her within 24 hours or else. PERIOD.
Everything else is just damage control.
When I first had a divorce at Casey's age. I too lived with my parents.
If I wanted to go overnight they said fine, but you can not take the baby.
If I went away for a weekend with my daughter that was fine.
I can not imagine diapering my child from them for that long.
NO WAY would they have bought it and I was not a known lier like Casey, nor was my dad an LE.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I don't want to excuse Casey, in the least, she is an adult and is responsible for her actions. I am just curious about her parent's personality disorders (Cindy looks to have narcissistic tendencies) and if it could have contributed to Casey's mental health state.

 

[Searchfortruth]

After thinking about what my question really is I have come up with this...Casey and Cindy share many of the same behaviors, "me attitude", lies frequently, but I have seen them assigned to defferent personality disorders, Cindy ...narcissistic, Casey...sociopath. Do mothers with NPD make children with NPD, and/or Sociopathy ? The two personality disorders look a lot alike as far as characterisitcs go, what is the difference and is sociopathy just a more extreme version of NPD ?

 

[white_envelope]

I don't think she has dissociative identity disorder but I can see a defense trying to explain her behavior for the first 31 days with something similar. kc seems disconnected in some ways. It appears as if her brain does not grasp the intellectual process at all. She is driven strictly on her emotions.

I think I mentioned disassociation back up in the thread. I don't mean the multiple identity disorder. Disassociation is when a person, usually an abuse victim, more or less quits feeling their feelings and lives more in an imaginary world in their mind. They don't lose their identity. The two may be on the same spectrum but I didn't mean to imply she had multiple personalities.

 

[SoSueMe]

I think that is very different. JMHO
Many dads do what your Dad did and that is not offensive to me at all. But here is a girl sitting in jail, and putting the family through hell he should be mad as hell. Not giving her approval of any kind. Maybe other then saying I will do whatever I can to help you, but beautiful, gorgeous, I found offensive, and inappropriate.

Okay, I see your point about not calling her beautiful after the horrific thing KC did, but in your post you said that although your Dad may think you are beautiful, he would not address you that way. I'm just saying I don't think in that sense that it is strange.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I am not familiar with the standards for Florida, but in NC pretrial diagnostic evaluations (competency evaluations) are comprehensive and do include clinical diagnoses. In the prison system, all inmates receive a mental health screening, including intellectual screening, which may lead to a comprehensive evaluation. In order to receive mental health services (psychiatric or psychological), other than temporary case management or crisis intervention, a mental health evaluation with diagnoses is completed and a treatment plan is developed. The treatment plan is more or less sophisticated depending on the setting (day treatment program, residential mental health setting, or someone in general population). Depending on the case, there may be an evaluation to assist custody staff with management decisions, such as how much of a risk an inmate would be in a lower level of custody. Of course, prior to the trial, in addition to any court ordered evaluations, the defense may arrange for their own evaluations (psychiatric, neurological, etc). I expect Casey has had a basic psychological evaluation, but a prudent clinician might have deferred any diagnoses pending the availability of additional background information and further opportunity to observe her behavior and monitor her adjustment. Just my opinions.

Russell

Thanks for coming back and answering this for me- I know I can ask too many questions and want to know too many things but it helps that you are willing to humor me LOL. :blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think I mentioned disassociation back up in the thread. I don't mean the multiple identity disorder. Disassociation is when a person, usually an abuse victim, more or less quits feeling their feelings and lives more in an imaginary world in their mind. They don't lose their identity. The two may be on the same spectrum but I didn't mean to imply she had multiple personalities.

I also believe that Casey does quite a bit disassociating, it's how she copes, IMO. In a home like that one learns how to shut themselves off.

 

[Whisperer]

Yes, narcissism has extremes. In the extreme it is pathological and that is where it veers off into anti-social disorder. Some call this type of narcissism malignant. Often there is another disorder going on at the same time when narcissism is this extreme. There are many ways to go with this in kc. She was more than likely an oppositional child. She could had been ADHD....don't know. She was a handful I am sure. No signs of bipolar in her but a case could be made for it if they wanted.

Now, Cindy presents the same as KC; however, Cindy's problems are more managable because she has managed to work for more than 2 years which says more for her mental status. She is also narcissistic and histrionic...DRAMA! She also gives the flavor of Bipolar. She is high energy and irritable. They both give me the signs of borderline personalities.

George is a co-dependent addicted to the drama. I think GA has an Axis I going on. He could be Schiz-affective or he may be bipolar. I think he has an underlying paranoia though and is a ticking time-bomb.

So much for my armchair analyses...

 

[Searchfortruth]

Yes, narcissism has extremes. In the extreme it is pathological and that is where it veers off into anti-social disorder. Some call this type of narcissism malignant. Often there is another disorder going on at the same time when narcissism is this extreme. There are many ways to go with this in kc. She was more than likely an oppositional child. She could had been ADHD....don't know. She was a handful I am sure. No signs of bipolar in her but a case could be made for it if they wanted.

Now, Cindy presents the same as KC; however, Cindy's problems are more managable because she has managed to work for more than 2 years which says more for her mental status. She is also narcissistic and histrionic...DRAMA! She also gives the flavor of Bipolar. She is high energy and irritable. They both give me the signs of borderline personalities.

George is a co-dependent addicted to the drama. I think GA has an Axis I going on. He could be Schiz-affective or he may be bipolar. I think he has an underlying paranoia though and is a ticking time-bomb.

So much for my armchair analyses...

Thank you for this post ! I was searching today on this topic and even found an article where the idea that Casey may have Aspergers Syndrome came up. I think they were looking at her lack of emotion as a symptom of Asperger's. For the non psych expert, the two personalities (Casey and Cindy) look so similar, and I can't help but think that Casey's sociopathy may be more nurture than nature, in this case.

 

[Capri]

I also believe that Casey does quite a bit disassociating, it's how she copes, IMO. In a home like that one learns how to shut themselves off.

Perfect example of KC disassociating...listen to the audio released of Tammy Unser in the medical part of jail, on the day Caylee was found. KC head in her hands, sweaty palms, anxiety (it appears), then she immediately starts talking about football. Classic disassociating, isn't it?

http://cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/20...gs_released_by_law_enforcement.html?refresh=1
scroll down to Lt. Unser audio