Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7

[Verité]

Most here have said no insanity plea, JB stated he would not use a mental health defense so is this a moog point until defense might change their mind?

Your post helps us refocus by referring to the original intent of this thread. If one lawyer proposes NG by Reason of Insanity as a Defense, does that imply that this defendant committed the crime?

And, if the "lawyer in chief"[my term] refuses said defense strategy, is the question of sanity vs. insanity, with implicit disposition, a moot point--unless and until another attorney launches the NGBRofI defense?

Incidentally, let's move past the erroneous assumption that a defendant who is determined insane/NGBRofI is automatically placed in a State hospital. The Florida Supreme Court in their 9-28-06 Jury Instructions stipulate to the Jury:

"If your verdict is that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity because insane, that does not necessarily mean [he] [she] will be released
from custody. I must conduct further proceedings to determine if the defendant should be committed to a mental hospital, or given other outpatient treatment."

 

[Brini]

GREAT QUESTION:
If it is still hidden then it would have to be a psychic moment for me to reply.

1- Will we find out who Caylees Daddy is?
2- Will we find out how GA really lost his money?
3- Why is anyone paying for this fiasco? what is their
involvement
4- Hopefully LE is holding things close to the vest that we
still do not know.
5- Will we find out if Casey left Caylee with unsavory crowd.
which will open another can of worms?

I do not---- look only at what is obvious.....
I come from a long line of secret service man.

1) KC's daddy isn't relevant, honey. He's never been involved with Caylee.
2) GA lost his money to a Nigerian scam, per Uncle Rick, IIRC. He told the family he lost it on Net Gaming.
3) I think it's being paid for with money the family is getting for licensing of Caylees piccies and TV show fees. However, I could be wrong. Will be interested in the state Bar's finding. :blowkiss:
4) I think the whole family has vests full of stuff that we don't know. Not sure if any of it relates to the crime. I think they know more than they are telling, but maybe less than we think they know.
5) Well, she ran around with a wild crowd. Not wilder than my crowd, when I was her age. My guess is that SHE'S the most unsavory member of that group of people.
:blowkiss:

 

[Searchfortruth]

Lowell CI is the place, I believe, Casey will be sent to as well. It's about 80 miles from Orlando, IIRC. It houses many female murderer's and has NO air conditioning ! They will keep her in PC, they don't want to take chances and if she's out in general, she will be hurt.

 

[Verité]

. . . .While a lot is transparent there so much more then meets the eye that is slippery that goes deep.
I doubt that there was a through evaluation of Casey.
Just because she can text, drive,lie, & steal does not make of of sound mind. LOL

Yours is the attitude necessary for what is called "sleuthing" (i.e. depth investigation and scrutiny whether by LE, mental health, or lay examiners).
(It is also called "keeping an open mind.") This is in contrast to what is known as "confirmatory bias," i.e. an overly-subjective judgment where all incoming
information is screened-out and rejected if it doesn't conform to the original judgment which has become rigid and inflexible over time, and tenaciously
held with an over-determined (excessive) level of emotion.

 

[eddeva]

songline, when asked what you thought was still hidden that would cause corrections to house casey seperately you replied:

GREAT QUESTION:
If it is still hidden then it would have to be a psychic moment for me to reply.

1- Will we find out who Caylees Daddy is?
2- Will we find out how GA really lost his money?
3- Why is anyone paying for this fiasco? what is their
involvement
4- Hopefully LE is holding things close to the vest that we
still do not know.
5- Will we find out if Casey left Caylee with unsavory crowd.
which will open another can of worms?

I do not---- look only at what is obvious.....
I come from a long line of secret service man.

if i have the wrong end of the stick then i apologize, but i'm still not understanding what any of that would have to do w/ her not being in gen-pop.

ETA i'm likely missing something obvious, but i had to ask.

 

[songline]

1) KC's daddy isn't relevant, honey. He's never been involved with Caylee.
2) GA lost his money to a Nigerian scam, per Uncle Rick, IIRC. He told the family he lost it on Net Gaming.
3) I think it's being paid for with money the family is getting for licensing of Caylees piccies and TV show fees. However, I could be wrong. Will be interested in the state Bar's finding. :blowkiss:
4) I think the whole family has vests full of stuff that we don't know. Not sure if any of it relates to the crime. I think they know more than they are telling, but maybe less than we think they know.
5) Well, she ran around with a wild crowd. Not wilder than my crowd, when I was her age. My guess is that SHE'S the most unsavory member of that group of people.
:blowkiss:

OBVIOUSLY we will not be in agreement on this and that is fine too.
And I am not here to prove anything at all.

 

[songline]

Yours is the attitude necessary for what is called "sleuthing" (i.e. depth investigation and scrutiny whether by LE, mental health, or lay examiners).
(It is also called "keeping an open mind.") This is in contrast to what is known as "confirmatory bias," i.e. an overly-subjective judgment where all incoming
information is screened-out and rejected if it doesn't conform to the original judgment which has become rigid and inflexible over time, and tenaciously
held with an over-determined (excessive) level of emotion.

Thank you Verité; :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:
I appreciate your willingness to look beyond the obvious
I appreciate that many people here do look at the bigger picture. It is also obvious when they are in what you call
"confirmatory bias,"
You have an important point because rigid and inflexible can only constitute a show of needing to be right. It does not produce a new light it only makes space for same ray of light.

I really do not care if I am or not right. I do care that justice will be served and I do think that we do need to look at the entire environment to serve the greater good.
I have been a trainer of Personal Development since 1980
I find that keeping an open mind is vital - otherwise I should not be teaching how the mind works LOL :blowkiss:

Another thing many of us women have is intuition and instinct: some of us have it in different degrees and different levels.
It is an amazing tool when we trust it and develop it :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

songline, when asked what you thought was still hidden that would cause corrections to house casey seperately you replied:

if i have the wrong end of the stick then i apologize, but i'm still not understanding what any of that would have to do w/ her not being in gen-pop.

ETA i'm likely missing something obvious, but i had to ask.

thank you for asking eddeva and not assuming -- it makes for intelligent conversation. :blowkiss:

I was asked what do I think is still missing ? since I had said there are still important pieces missing to tie the murderer to the deed.
IT WAS SEPERATE from how to house a prisoner, I know nothing about jail rules. POST # 294

I replied that it was a good question but I am not a psychic.
However I listed the areas that we should be looking perhaps it would lead to it.
this was the list:
1- Will we find out who Caylees Daddy is?
How do we know that hiding this is not hiding a lot more?
2- Will we find out how GA really lost his money?
How do we know that hiding this is not the seed for the questionable folk around?
3- Why is anyone paying for this fiasco? what is their involvement
WHY are they paying WHY? hmmmm
4- Hopefully LE is holding things close to the vest that we still do not know.
If they are holding things close to their vest MORE POWER TO THEM.
5- Will we find out if Casey left Caylee with unsavory crowd.
which will open another can of worms?
Was Caylee left in a Bordello while Casey was with a john?
Was Caylee with a Drug Dealer while Casey was moving products in the club - thus those party photos?

I do not---- look only at what is obvious..... I come from a long line of secret service man. No kidding.

To add to all of that. Since this is the insanity thread:
The Law is Clear if you know right from wrong you can not be trialled as insane.
but IF IF IF your own family brought the riff raff home that may have been a part of ending
Caylees life. I do not care what the law is....
There has to be a provision for someone/Casey that is raised in a no win situation.
Maybe there isn't
I am not trying to cover for Casey - I am hoping for justice.

 

[eddeva]

thank you for asking eddeva and not assuming -- it makes for intelligent conversation. :blowkiss:

I was asked what do I think is still missing ?
to which I replied that it was a good question but I am not a psychic.
However I listed the areas that we should be looking perhaps it would lead to it.
this is the list:
1- Will we find out who Caylees Daddy is?
2- Will we find out how GA really lost his money?
3- Why is anyone paying for this fiasco? what is their
involvement
4- Hopefully LE is holding things close to the vest that we
still do not know.
5- Will we find out if Casey left Caylee with unsavory crowd.
which will open another can of worms?

I do not---- look only at what is obvious.....
I come from a long line of secret service man.

nope, i still don't see how the answers, regardless of what they are, to these questions pertain to her current housing situation but thanks for taking the time to reply songline.

 

[Brini]

OBVIOUSLY we will not be in agreement on this and that is fine too.
And I am not here to prove anything at all.

It's just all interesting and fun!:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

Thank you Verité; :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:
I appreciate your willingness to look beyond the obvious
I appreciate that many people here do look at the bigger picture. It is also obvious when they are in what you call
"confirmatory bias,"
You have an important point because rigid and inflexible can only constitute a show of needing to be right. It does not produce a new light it only makes space for same ray of light.

I really do not care if I am or not right. I do care that justice will be served and I do think that we do need to look at the entire environment to serve the greater good.
I have been a trainer of Personal Development since 1980
I find that keeping an open mind is vital - otherwise I should not be teaching how the mind works LOL :blowkiss:

Another thing many of us women have is intuition and instinct: some of us have it in different degrees and different levels.
It is an amazing tool when we trust it and develop it :blowkiss:

Well, none of her phone pings led to a brothel.

KC may not have been a pro-- at least in an "establishment for young ladies," as they termed it in the 1900s.

But, she was a very prolific amateur!

NOT that I would put it past her.....

 

[Verité]

Thank you Verité; :blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:
I appreciate your willingness to look beyond the obvious.:

Big THANKS!

I do care that justice will be served and I do think that we do need to look at the entire environment to serve the greater good.

Me, too!:clap: For example I celebrate today over the ZFG Civil Court victory, which I think is a contribution to the Greater Good, in that we all benefit as we bear in mind that
there's a consequence to reckless allegations about any person, regardless of station in life.

I have been a trainer of Personal Development since 1980.

It shows.

I find that keeping an open mind is vital - otherwise I should not be teaching how the mind works LOL :blowkiss:

100% agreement here.

Another thing many of us women have is intuition and instinct: some of us have it in different degrees and different levels.
It is an amazing tool when we trust it and develop it :blowkiss

Ahh, an intuitive mind--one of our most important faculties, I'd say, with the development of an open mind and the ability to screen "sense" from "non-sense".
Thanks again, songline.:clap:

 

[songline]

nope, i still don't see how the answers, regardless of what they are, to these questions pertain to her current housing situation but thanks for taking the time to reply songline.

has nothing to do with housing check post # 294
I tried. You are obviously on one track and that is OK.

 

[Verité]

nope, i still don't see how the answers, regardless of what they are, to these questions pertain to her current housing situation but thanks for taking the time to reply songline.

At the risk of jumping into the middle of a discussion which doesn't involve me (apologies songline; apologies eddeva), let me just offer my subjective guess:

Whether prosecution or defense, if I had a suspect likely to spill the beans about any number of potentially hidden issues, I wouldn't want her in
general population where she's likely to ventilate to other inmates, or possibly be harmed by them after she's divulged, or ???? who knows what!

 

[cecybeans]

Let me hazard a guess here Eddeva - if KC is housed at Lowell as a death penalty convict (vs. the recent women's death row unit at Florida State prison near Starke, which I had heard earlier was the only place DP convicts are housed presently in FL) I would assume she would be housed as other DP inmates are housed, which is independently IIRC. From my understanding LWOP gets general pop and DP is always single cell and protected custody so to speak. They require being protected for the 12 years they have to appeal. Maybe some of the folks who are more familiar with the prison system in FL could weigh in.

I think songline is speculating at the level we all do here and many of the things we are taking for granted about this case are simply because we have maintained "open minds". For instance, we assume that GA lost his money in a Nigerian scam because he directly tells the FBI in his interview and that this is corroborated by what RP has heard. Well, we know that GA has lied and we also know the family doesn't think much of lying to other family members or others to cover what KC has done (including getting pregnant), so do we really "know" that GA lost his money this way or is this just another consensus with an Anthony source we have conveniently used as a baseline for fact?

Although the theory that KC hung with an unsavory crowd may be an overstatement - and I do not believe songline is speaking of her Full Sail friends and the AH/RM group - there are a few rather unsavory individuals (including Frank M who is reportedly in jail for various schemes) she shares mutual connections with, and a host of truly scary people at or associated with the NLHF which tie into funding the reward money and KFN and her family. That's been pretty well documented and discussed. While the ultimate conclusion of the true extent of these relationships will be proved by LE and other federal agencies that are investigating this, it is a more reasonable and well-researched conclusion than some of the other ones we have taken as fact that are equally based on assumption and speculation. I would caution songline to use qualifiers when she uses these statements as the people who believe them at this point may be in the minority, but that in no way negates them as reasonable possibilities. Extrapolating conclusions based on trending of other facts or possbilities is what we all do here to a certain degree.

I think we can all agree that given the propsensity for lying this entire family exhibits - for whatever psychological dysfunction or "legitimate" reason - it means every time they appear as a primary source of information we need to have independent corroboration if possible, or at the very least view it as an unproven string of hearsay. Which means that just about anything is possible most of the time - it may not seem reasonable or probable to many of us, but it is certainly possible.

I don't think any scenario out there exonerates KC, which is why her defense is so foolish.

 

[songline]

At the risk of jumping into the middle of a discussion which doesn't involve me (apologies songline; apologies eddeva), let me just offer my subjective guess:

Whether prosecution or defense, if I had a suspect likely to spill the beans about any number of potentially hidden issues, I wouldn't want her in
general population where she's likely to ventilate to other inmates, or possibly be harmed by them after she's divulged, or ???? who knows what!

POINT is I know Notha, ziltch, -0- about Jail rules: it is not about Jail housing.. AT all if you read post # 294 that is where this had started. SO. If you care to back track you will read something that is entirely different from what it has turned into.

I have read that the General Pop is a hardship and she will be abused on many levels. I have read that being protected means a lot of isolation.... I do not know much about jail and I would not have listed any of what I did list in regard to where she is housed.

 

[songline]

Let me hazard a guess here Eddeva - if KC is housed at Lowell as a death penalty convict (vs. the recent women's death row unit at Florida State prison near Starke, which I had heard earlier was the only place DP convicts are housed presently in FL) I would assume she would be housed as other DP inmates are housed, which is independently IIRC. From my understanding LWOP gets general pop and DP is always single cell and protected custody so to speak. They require being protected for the 12 years they have to appeal. Maybe some of the folks who are more familiar with the prison system in FL could weigh in.

I think songline is speculating at the level we all do here and many of the things we are taking for granted about this case are simply because we have maintained "open minds". For instance, we assume that GA lost his money in a Nigerian scam because he directly tells the FBI in his interview and that this is corroborated by what RP has heard. Well, we know that GA has lied and we also know the family doesn't think much of lying to other family members or others to cover what KC has done (including getting pregnant), so do we really "know" that GA lost his money this way or is this just another consensus with an Anthony source we have conveniently used as a baseline for fact?

Although the theory that KC hung with an unsavory crowd may be an overstatement - and I do not believe songline is speaking of her Full Sail friends and the AH/RM group - there are a few rather unsavory individuals (including Frank M who is reportedly in jail for various schemes) she shares mutual connections with, and a host of truly scary people at or associated with the NLHF which tie into funding the reward money and KFN and her family. That's been pretty well documented and discussed. While the ultimate conclusion of the true extent of these relationships will be proved by LE and other federal agencies that are investigating this, it is a more reasonable and well-researched conclusion than some of the other ones we have taken as fact that are equally based on assumption and speculation. I would caution songline to use qualifiers when she uses these statements as the people who believe them at this point may be in the minority, but that in no way negates them as reasonable possibilities. Extrapolating conclusions based on trending of other facts or possbilities is what we all do here to a certain degree.

I think we can all agree that given the propsensity for lying this entire family exhibits - for whatever psychological dysfunction or "legitimate" reason - it means every time they appear as a primary source of information we need to have independent corroboration if possible, or at the very least view it as an unproven string of hearsay. Which means that just about anything is possible most of the time - it may not seem reasonable or probable to many of us, but it is certainly possible.

I don't think any scenario out there exonerates KC, which is why her defense is so foolish.

Thank you cecybeans:blowkiss: I love informative people.
I appreciate your open mind very much
I know more about jail now after reading your first paragraph....
But since you are also giving me a bit of caution..Please explain how..
What is a qualifier, how do I use it?
Thanks a lot:blowkiss:

 

[eddeva]

has nothing to do with housing check post # 294
I tried. You are obviously on one track and that is OK.

no songline, i am not on one track.


originally you posted:

At first I thought that her parent helped clean up because I knew they would not want her in the General Pop.
WHAT is Lowell is it the name of a prison?
Why if she is under Protective Custody will jail feel like Honeymoon.
Sorry not well versed on jail stuff.

NOW I no longer think it was only because of General Population but I think their is a piece that is still hidden.

brini answered you saying:

What do you think is still hidden, that would cause corrections to house her separately, honey? :blowkiss:

and you replied:

GREAT QUESTION:
If it is still hidden then it would have to be a psychic moment for me to reply.

1- Will we find out who Caylees Daddy is?
2- Will we find out how GA really lost his money?
3- Why is anyone paying for this fiasco? what is their
involvement
4- Hopefully LE is holding things close to the vest that we
still do not know.
5- Will we find out if Casey left Caylee with unsavory crowd.
which will open another can of worms?

I do not---- look only at what is obvious.....
I come from a long line of secret service man.

so although you had originally posted saying you no longer thought it was only about gen-pop and had changed your mind in the belief that there was something hidden, when asked by brini 'what do you think is still hidden, that would cause corrections to house her separately', instead of saying,'it has nothing to do w/ housing brini', you answered her w/ what seems to me to be a rather cryptic post listing questions. i thought that they somehow answered the question that brini had posed but that i had been unable to grasp your answer. now you say it has nothing to do w/ housing - so be it.

 

[eddeva]

Let me hazard a guess here Eddeva - if KC is housed at Lowell as a death penalty convict (vs. the recent women's death row unit at Florida State prison near Starke, which I had heard earlier was the only place DP convicts are housed presently in FL) I would assume she would be housed as other DP inmates are housed, which is independently IIRC. From my understanding LWOP gets general pop and DP is always single cell and protected custody so to speak. They require being protected for the 12 years they have to appeal. Maybe some of the folks who are more familiar with the prison system in FL could weigh in.

I think songline is speculating at the level we all do here and many of the things we are taking for granted about this case are simply because we have maintained "open minds". For instance, we assume that GA lost his money in a Nigerian scam because he directly tells the FBI in his interview and that this is corroborated by what RP has heard. Well, we know that GA has lied and we also know the family doesn't think much of lying to other family members or others to cover what KC has done (including getting pregnant), so do we really "know" that GA lost his money this way or is this just another consensus with an Anthony source we have conveniently used as a baseline for fact?

Although the theory that KC hung with an unsavory crowd may be an overstatement - and I do not believe songline is speaking of her Full Sail friends and the AH/RM group - there are a few rather unsavory individuals (including Frank M who is reportedly in jail for various schemes) she shares mutual connections with, and a host of truly scary people at or associated with the NLHF which tie into funding the reward money and KFN and her family. That's been pretty well documented and discussed. While the ultimate conclusion of the true extent of these relationships will be proved by LE and other federal agencies that are investigating this, it is a more reasonable and well-researched conclusion than some of the other ones we have taken as fact that are equally based on assumption and speculation. I would caution songline to use qualifiers when she uses these statements as the people who believe them at this point may be in the minority, but that in no way negates them as reasonable possibilities. Extrapolating conclusions based on trending of other facts or possbilities is what we all do here to a certain degree.

I think we can all agree that given the propsensity for lying this entire family exhibits - for whatever psychological dysfunction or "legitimate" reason - it means every time they appear as a primary source of information we need to have independent corroboration if possible, or at the very least view it as an unproven string of hearsay. Which means that just about anything is possible most of the time - it may not seem reasonable or probable to many of us, but it is certainly possible.

I don't think any scenario out there exonerates KC, which is why her defense is so foolish.

now this i understand perfectly :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

no songline, i am not on one track.


originally you posted:


brini answered you saying:


and you replied:


so although you had originally posted saying you no longer thought it was only about gen-pop and had changed your mind in the belief that there was something hidden, when asked by brini 'what do you think is still hidden, that would cause corrections to house her separately', instead of saying,'it has nothing to do w/ housing brini', you answered her w/ what seems to me to be a rather cryptic post listing questions. i thought that they somehow answered the question that brini had posed but that i had been unable to grasp your answer. now you say it has nothing to do w/ housing - so be it.

I see how you got mixe up - thanks for qualifying.
I put it in green on your post - I never added that at all that was your thought.

I thought this line here ends my entire input about jail:
NOW I no longer think it was only because of General Population but
I think there is a piece that is still hidden. THIS IS a separate thought.
Initially I assumed C&G helped clean up because they did not want KC in GP in Jail.
Now I believe the clean up had to do with something we do not yet know. because it is hidden.
I hope this makes the items I listed more sensible. IF I succeeded in clarification.
Maybe I did ramble on and it was unclear , sorry. :blowkiss: